What to do with formula samples? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
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Breastfeeding > What to do with formula samples?
Momtwice's Avatar Momtwice 03:20 PM 05-09-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytolittlelilly
To me this whole argument reminds me of people in 2000 who had to "vote their conscience" with Nader. It's easy to dump out a bunch of food as a protest when you don't need that food.
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=194893

Breastfeeding boards: what we are about by Raven (mod)

bold emphasis mine

Quote:
Mothering Magazine supports and advocates Breastfeeding and all the benefits to both mother and child that result from breastfeeding. As an extension of Mothering Magazing, MotheringDotCommune (MDC) upholds this as an integral part of its community purpose. MDC is a platform for SUPPORT and ADVOCACY to mothers and babies who are passionate about their right to breastfeed. As such it is a valuable and safe place for those who seek advice, support, and action when it comes to the many challenges, obstacles, and societal conditions they experience as breastfeeding mothers.

Members who formula feed out of necessity should not take posts critical of formula feeding personally. Members are reminded to post within the parameters of the User Agreement and refrain from personal attacks. If you feel concern about a post or discussion, please contact the moderator of the forum.

It must be clear that although we certainly do not encourage formula use we do support mothers who are doing the best they can for their children. It is very possible to find oneself compelled to use formula due to personal or family circumstances; such a mother can still be a Lactivist while seeking out support and information for her child's nutritional needs from the MDC community.


mommytolittlelilly's Avatar mommytolittlelilly 03:40 PM 05-09-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie
How is it militant to share the simple fact that breastfeeding is the norm and that formula feeding has inherent health risks? If someone came up to you and said "You must put your child in a car seat" would you not put your child in a car seat just because you disliked their preachy tone? And yes, it's your body. It's also your baby's body. ?
It sounds about as militant and preachy as I could imagine. Equating non-use of the car seat to FF is inappropriate.


Of course there is more to it than JUST formula samples, but formula samples are a contributing factor. Whether you believe it or not, they really are.


Well you're not mentioning any of those other factors, are you? If I were to go with what you're saying in this thread, everyone would suddenly be breastfeeding if it weren't for those darned formula samples.


Like in case your breasts fell off?[/QUOTE]



Yes, I got the samples in case my breasts fell off
mommytolittlelilly's Avatar mommytolittlelilly 03:43 PM 05-09-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtwice
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=194893

Breastfeeding boards: what we are about by Raven (mod)

bold emphasis mine
So what's your point here? That I don't support breastfeeding? You could not possibly be more wrong. Maybe I don't fit your mold of what a BF advocate should be. What I don't support is people throwing out food that other people could use.
annettemarie's Avatar annettemarie 03:47 PM 05-09-2005
You may want to familiarize yourself with how to use the quote feature. It is difficult to read and make sense of your responses.
annettemarie's Avatar annettemarie 03:51 PM 05-09-2005
Quote:
It sounds about as militant and preachy as I could imagine.
Saying that breastfeeding is the norm (or "best" if you will) and the formula feeding has health hazards is preachy and militant? Well, dang, then, even the formula companies are militant breastfeeding advocates.

Quote:
Equating non-use of the car seat to FF is inappropriate.
Why? Are they not both health and safety concerns?


Quote:
Well you're not mentioning any of those other factors, are you? If I were to go with what you're saying in this thread, everyone would suddenly be breastfeeding if it weren't for those darned formula samples.
Actually, you have completely misrepresented me. No where did I say formula samples were the sole cause of breastfeeding failure. I said they were a contributing factor. I didn't mention the other factors because they aren't what this thread is about. If you check the title, the thread is "what to do with formula samples" which should sufficiently explain why I am only mentioning formula samples.
OnTheFence's Avatar OnTheFence 04:12 PM 05-09-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie
But studies have shown just the opposite- formula companies market more aggressively to women who indicate they are planning to breastfeed, and having formula samples available in the home can interfere with the breastfeeding relationship.
I would like to read these studies, links please?
twopeasinpod's Avatar twopeasinpod 04:18 PM 05-09-2005
They sent us home with a CASE of little nutramigen bottles for our bf'd twins, after berating us for not supplementing repeatedly.

We used them for baby animals on the farm. baaaa.

The world commiserates on substituting breastmilk. (PDF)
Momtwice's Avatar Momtwice 04:26 PM 05-09-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheFence
I would like to read these studies, links please?

Here are two from the American Academy of Pediatrics policy paper
"Breastfeeding and the Use of Human milk"

Howard CR, Howard FM, Weitzman ML Infant formula distribution and advertising in pregnancy: a hospital survey. Birth. 1994; 21:14-19 [Medline]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Howard FM, Howard CR, Weitzman ML The physician as advertiser: the unintentional discouragement of breast-feeding. Obstet Gynecol. 1993; 81:1048-1051 [Abstract]
http://www.greenjournal.org/cgi/cont...ract/81/6/1048
annettemarie's Avatar annettemarie 04:32 PM 05-09-2005
Articles for general knowledge
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/199...ula/index.html
http://www.zipmall.com/bab-bott.htm

Secondary Sources

http://www.4woman.gov/editor/Aug03/aug03.htm
Quote:
Formula Industry Advertising - There is always free cheese in a mouse trap. Free samples of infant formula, coupons, and hospital discharge packs are pervasive in the United States. Pregnant women and new mothers are bombarded by industry advertising on TV, in popular magazines, at the grocery store, at the doctor's office, and in the mail. Usually there is a disclaimer that breastfeeding is the preferred infant feeding method, but most authorities agree the disclaimer does not balance the impact of the advertising. A study reported in the March 2000 Public Relations and Marketing News, found that women exposed to commercial information about formula were five times more likely to stop breastfeeding before they even left the hospital.
http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading...marketing.html
Quote:
Researchers from the University of Rochester School of Medicine randomly distributed commercial formula marketing materials or non-commercial breastfeeding materials to 444 women who were at their doctors´┐Ż offices for prenatal visits. Researchers then followed up with the women at 2, 6, 12 and 24 weeks postpartum.

A study published in the February issue of Obstetrics & Gynecology revealed the researchers´┐Ż findings. Among the women who received free formula samples and other commercial materials, there was a five-fold increase in the number of women who quit breastfeeding while still in the hospital. Also among the women who received the commercial packs, there was also a two-fold increase in the amount of women who quit within the first two weeks after birth. The researchers found that in the long-term, there was no difference in breastfeeding duration among the two groups of women.
http://www.compleatmother.com/study.htm
Quote:
Breast-feeding cessation in the early peripartum period was significantly higher in women exposed to the commercial intervention. For every 100 women exposed prenatally to commercial materials in this study, six women quit breast-feeding before hospital discharge because of that exposure (one out of every 17 women);
Abstracts of Actual Studies
Quote:
The meta-analysis showed that when comparing commercial discharge packs with any of the controls (no intervention, non-commercial pack and combinations of these), exclusive breastfeeding was reduced at all time points in the presence of commercial hospital discharge packs.
http://www.breastfeedingtaskforla.or...arge-packs.htm

Quote:
Breast-feeding initiation (relative risk [RR] 0.93, 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.61, 1.43) and duration after 2 weeks (hazard ratio 1.19, 95% CI 0.86, 1.64) were not affected. Women in the commercial group were more likely to cease breast-feeding before hospital discharge (RR 5.80, 95% CI 1.25, 54.01) and before 2 weeks (adjusted odds ratio [OR] 1.91, 95% CI 1.02, 3.55). In subgroup analyses, women with uncertain goals for breast-feeding or goals of 12 weeks or less experienced shortened exclusive (hazard ratio 1.53, 95% CI 1.06, 2.21), full (hazard ratio 1.70, 95% CI 1.18, 2.48), and overall (hazard ratio 1.75, 95% CI 1.16, 2.64) breast-feeding duration when exposed to the commercial intervention.
http://www.greenjournal.org/cgi/cont...tract/95/2/296

Additionally, Milk, Money, and Madness is an entire BOOK dedicated to the subject of breastfeeding and formula company tactics
Momtwice's Avatar Momtwice 04:36 PM 05-09-2005
America Academy of Family Physicians breastfeeding policy

Quote:
AAFP Policy Statement on Breastfeeding

Breastfeeding is the physiological norm for both mothers and their children. The AAFP recommends that all babies, with rare exceptions, be breastfed and/or receive expressed human milk exclusively for about the first six months of life. .....

...General Recommendations For All Family Physicians
1. Breastfeeding promotion and education need to occur throughout the life cycle.
a. Provide accurate and appropriate breastfeeding information at all preventive health visits throughout the lifespan.
b. Provide accurate information about infant feeding during preconception and all prenatal visits.

2. Family physicians, whether or not they provide maternity care, should establish a breastfeeding-friendly office.17,20
a. Avoid the direct or implied endorsement of artificial baby milks (formula) by eliminating the distribution of samples and formula-company sponsored materials.11,12
http://www.aafp.org/x6633.xml
Momtwice's Avatar Momtwice 04:39 PM 05-09-2005
supervee's Avatar supervee 05:04 PM 05-09-2005
Hey! No hijacking my thread to get all snarky on either side of the fence!
mommytolittlelilly's Avatar mommytolittlelilly 06:10 PM 05-09-2005
I'm "responding" in a new thread under BF advocacy.
~Megan~'s Avatar ~Megan~ 06:47 PM 05-09-2005
Let's remember to keep this post within the limits of the UA. Attacking, name calling, etc is not allowed.
annettemarie's Avatar annettemarie 06:51 PM 05-09-2005
I'm not trying to be adversarial, but I don't see where this is being done. Could you PM me if any of my posts have crossed the line?
stafl's Avatar stafl 10:13 PM 05-09-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytolittlelilly
And I can't disagree with you more. I think women are smart enough to make their own decisions about whether or not they want to breastfeed, and how far they can and want to go to make that happen.

hm... since you quoted my post, in which I related my own PERSONAL experience with formula supplementation sabotaging my breastfeeding relationship with my first daughter, I suppose I should respond. Who are you to tell me my experience is not valid? I know many women who have experienced something very similar to what I did, but none of them were able to continue trying to make breastfeeding work, and their babies ended up on formula 100%. That is indeed what the goal is when formula companies hand out samples and freebies. They bank on our failure to breastfeed. They take great steps to see that we cannot nurse our babies. I was relating my PERSONAL story of how formula nearly put an effective end to nursing! That ONE bottle of formula I gave DD, that I was sent home with from the hospital, caused severe difficulties, on top of the problems we were already having that had not been diagnosed or even hinted at. With ONE bottle of formula, my baby no longer could latch on to nurse. That, coupled with her tongue tie and weak suck meant she wasn't gaining enough weight. That, coupled with the problems we were having, meant that my supply plummetted (AFTER GIVING HER ONE 3 oz BOTTLE OF FORMULA). The drop in my supply meant that I *had* to give her more formula, or watch her slowly starve to death. You didn't have that same experience, okay, fine. But I did, and lots of other women did, too. And that is what the formula companies want to happen, it only benefits them when breastfeeding fails. I couldn't have wanted to nurse my baby more than I did, and it was only through sheer stubbornness that I managed to make it work. I'm not the only one, or they wouldn't still be giving out those samples. It works. It's effective. It's very powerful marketing ploy to get people to buy their formula. They wouldn't do it (give away samples and freebies) if it didn't profit them somehow.
annettemarie's Avatar annettemarie 10:18 PM 05-09-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by stafl
hm... since you quoted my post, in which I related my own PERSONAL experience with formula supplementation sabotaging my breastfeeding relationship with my first daughter, I suppose I should respond.

I'm glad you shared your story here, and I am happy that you were able to work it out.
Zamber's Avatar Zamber 12:59 AM 05-10-2005

Just wanted to talk about a small, minor situation I had with formula samples. Both my best friend and Mom signed me up for free samples even though I told them I had made up my mind that I was going to breastfeed. However, my Mom told me "I couldn't do it, so you probably won't be able to". When I asked why they couldn't breastfeed, they both said "I tried, and I just couldn't". I don't know, it kind of hurt my feelings to have almost no confidence in my abilities or desires. My mother nagged me to give birth in a hospital so that I could get the free diaper bag and samples (thank god I gave birth at home! : ), which I thought was a little rediculous. Toward the end of my pregnancy, I threw out the two cans of powdered formula I ended up with (at the time I felt guilty for wasting food). It's a good thing I did. Being new to breastfeeding with almost no support (except my dh ), exhausted, worried, frustrated, I ALMOST gave up and went to go make a bottle for ds. When I realized the formula wasn't there, it hit me - "What the heck am I doing?". It reminded me of why I was breastfeeding to begin with, and renewed my determination to continue. I now have a wonderful breastfeeding relationship with my wonderful healthy son, and I now don't care what my family/friends think. They don't know what they are missing!!!
girlndocs's Avatar girlndocs 04:59 AM 05-10-2005
I don't understand how anyone could be unclear on the effect formula marketing, including and especially samples, has on breastfeeding relationships. Formula companies spend big bucks on this stuff. They hire consultants and plan huge campaigns. They're savvy businesses, not morons: why would they spend that money if they didn't know it worked?
mommytolittlelilly's Avatar mommytolittlelilly 06:44 PM 05-10-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by stafl
hm... since you quoted my post, in which I related my own PERSONAL experience with formula supplementation sabotaging my breastfeeding relationship with my first daughter, I suppose I should respond. Who are you to tell me my experience is not valid? I know many women who have experienced something very similar to what I did, but none of them were able to continue trying to make breastfeeding work, and their babies ended up on formula 100%. That is indeed what the goal is when formula companies hand out samples and freebies. They bank on our failure to breastfeed. They take great steps to see that we cannot nurse our babies. I was relating my PERSONAL story of how formula nearly put an effective end to nursing! That ONE bottle of formula I gave DD, that I was sent home with from the hospital, caused severe difficulties, on top of the problems we were already having that had not been diagnosed or even hinted at. With ONE bottle of formula, my baby no longer could latch on to nurse. That, coupled with her tongue tie and weak suck meant she wasn't gaining enough weight. That, coupled with the problems we were having, meant that my supply plummetted (AFTER GIVING HER ONE 3 oz BOTTLE OF FORMULA). The drop in my supply meant that I *had* to give her more formula, or watch her slowly starve to death. You didn't have that same experience, okay, fine. But I did, and lots of other women did, too. And that is what the formula companies want to happen, it only benefits them when breastfeeding fails. I couldn't have wanted to nurse my baby more than I did, and it was only through sheer stubbornness that I managed to make it work. I'm not the only one, or they wouldn't still be giving out those samples. It works. It's effective. It's very powerful marketing ploy to get people to buy their formula. They wouldn't do it (give away samples and freebies) if it didn't profit them somehow.
Just wanted to say that I had no intention of saying that your PERSONAL experience was not valid. If you took that way, I'm very sorry. My quote actually refers to how far women *CAN* as well as, *want* to make a BF reationship work. I was also relating my PERSONAL experience here, and I guess I kind of felt attacked about why I wanted to get as many formula samples as possible. I still think women should have choices about what they want to do in terms of BF, FF, or both, but it seems that's not what this thread was supposed to be about.

I'm sure the F companies schemes must have success in undermining BF or it wouldn't work. I'm not sure that I was really saying that? When it was brought up, I did want to make it clear that there are lots of reasons for BF relationships to be undermined. What I originally wanted to say was that I think it's really misguided and not constructive to the "cause" to throw formula away or give it to animals, when moms who are ALREADY FF are in need of it.

I'm sorry we can't have a discussion without rubbing each other the wrong way! It just keeps happening.
Ellien C's Avatar Ellien C 07:47 PM 05-10-2005
Getting back to the OP - I felt pretty good about donating my extra samples to a foodbank specifically for HIV positive people.
Momtwice's Avatar Momtwice 08:19 PM 05-10-2005
Quote:
I think it's really misguided and not constructive to the "cause" to throw formula away or give it to animals, when moms who are ALREADY FF are in need of it.
I see your POV. But to me, it was an act of empowerment to leave the formula in the hospital room. It made me feel strong and empowered to breastfeed exclusively, when previously I had supplemented without fulling understanding the impact of supplementing, destroying my first breastfeeding relationship.

I donate both food and time to hunger causes, but if I were to have another baby, I would not allow formula in my house to possibly damage my child's health unless it were required in an emergency. (And in my family, we tend to have those illnesses and side effects that formula can cause....ear infections, food allergies, etc.) And I would throw samples away with a clear conscience, instead of waiting until I could bring it to a charity, because in the meantime its presence in the cupboard might cause me to give in one tough night and use it.

I understand you feeling attacked. I felt attacked by you as well, and what's worse I felt my children were being attacked, in a way, if you can see what I mean by what I wrote in the previous paragraph.
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