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#1 of 219 Old 09-15-2005, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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How good is your diet? I struggle so much with eating healthy. I eat WAYYY too much sugar but can't seem to stop; it's really like an addiction. I take probiotics, calcium and DHA - and occasionally a multivite/prenatal and flaxseed oil - and I avoid trans fats, but that's about as good as I can do. I don't get enough fruits & veggies. Too much caffeine (does not seem to bother DD though).

I read (on Kellymom I think) that breastmilk will be pretty much the same no matter what your diet. But then Dr. Sears says trans fats can harm baby's brain?? What is the deal? Am I giving DD substandard BM?

Would type more but this is 1-handed 'cause DD is on the other arm & I have to take a break...

anyone else willing to admit to being a junk food junkie (or at least not a health nut) while bf? anyone think I need to shape up ASAP? Don't be afraid to be harsh on me. But I do know that this is important - it's just that I have struggled w/ food issues for a long time and right now I find it incredibly difficult to eat as well as I should.

~Elizabeth
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#2 of 219 Old 09-15-2005, 11:01 PM
 
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I never watch what i eat I eat what I want when I want. It isnt something I even worry about really. I have never had a balanced diet as far back as I can remember. I do avoid caffien tho i stopped all intake of caffien when I started ttc my first child. I do have a bit of pop now with ds but only rarely and not much at a time. I couldnt even tell u what trans fat is really :LOL. So dont feel bad at least you r trying

 
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#3 of 219 Old 09-15-2005, 11:11 PM
 
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Hey Elizabeth,

First of all, our babies were born 1 day apart! Hooray for little pisces babies!

Second, I'm no expert. By far. I'm bfing my first.

From what I understand, traces of what we ingest end up in our breastmilk, which I suppose means the more nutrients there are in your diet, the more there are in your milk. Case in point, you must avoid most medications while you bf because they wind up in your milk. Or when my ds had a cold, my naturopath told me to take extra vitamin c so he would get some.

Whether that means that your diet so bad that your baby's milk is of poor quality, I can't say, though I really doubt it. Hopefully, someone better qualified than I am can answer that.

As for sugar, I do wonder whether it affects my ds. Last night, for instance, I totally pigged out and had 4 chocolate chip cookies before bed and I wondered if this is why he had awakened. I haven't checked for responses yet. But the thing about sugar that is bad for you, mama, is that it inhibits the absorption of nutrients, including vital calcium.

I eat pretty healthy, but I have to admit, during my pregnancy I developed a sweet tooth that is still hard to kick, and now, more than ever, I crave fast food; this is made worst by the fact that I often have no time to cook, and no time to make a decent meal for myself during the day! Golden Arches? Bring it on! To heck with my principals, I want those fries! Sigh...

Oh, and something else I wanted to mention. My naturopath goes on an on about the evils of sugar, particularly because I have hypoglycemic tendencies. According to her, and so far it's been true for me, if you eat protein regularly, sugar cravings diminish. I don't know if this applies to you, but you might want to think about whether or not you are getting enough protein.

I hope this helps!
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#4 of 219 Old 09-15-2005, 11:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jocmtl
Hey Elizabeth
Uh, make that Melissa... blame it on sleep deprivation

No, I got it right the first time, didn't I? Yay, I'm not crazy!
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#5 of 219 Old 09-15-2005, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Jo, you got it right the first time! :LOL

You're right on about the protein thing. I had a dx of GD during pregnancy and eating protein CONSTANTLY was the only thing that helped my sugar cravings (but I was still not perfect diet-wise by any means!).

Part of it is that while I had not been drinking caffeine while TTC and during pregnancy (with rare exceptions), I was so tired in the first few weeks postpartum that I started drinking a Coke a day (coffee was too strong). It seems like once soda becomes part of my life it's all downhill from there!

Pisces babies rock, by the way! DH was so scared I was going to go late and have a Gemini, apparently his astrological profile doesn't go well w/ Geminis...

CatLvr (I am too!) - thanks, it's good to know I'm not alone.

nak - gotta go
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#6 of 219 Old 09-15-2005, 11:49 PM
 
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Another mama who struggles with the sugar here. I didn't know that about protein-I should find out more about that and apply it to my diet. Like a pp though-I wouldn't know a trans fat if it bit me in my butt. I did cut out caffeine when I found out I was pregnant and have managed not to add that back into my diet, and I try to think about getting all the big nutrient groups, but most days I'm sure I don't and I know I eat way too much sugar.

Do any of you worry about your habits and passing them onto your babies? That's my concern-I've struggled with my weight and eating habits for pretty much the last 20 years and I know some of it comes from watching my mom's habits (not blaming her, but it's the truth). I hate the thought of passing my bad habits to my daughter. I've started thinking about it a lot and I hope I can improve my habits now while she's still young to give her a little bit better of an example.
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#7 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 01:19 AM
 
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Nah, you're fine! Given that breastmilk is made from what is in our blood and not in our stomachs, most of what we eat gets metabolized down to the cellular level anyhow. Well, it's more complicated than that but suffice it to say that there is relatively little in our diets that makes it into our blood and back into our breastmilk. (I'm sure that someone will come along and explain it, lol).

Substandard breastmilk? Never heard of it! You're doing great - keep it up!

P.S. I don't eat all that great myself.
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#8 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 10:52 AM
 
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re: protein and sugar cravings...totally true.

My friend has serious liver problems and sees endocrinologists and other specialists all the time, and she's known for years (wish she'd told me earlier!) that a sugar craving is usually/often/always? the way your body cries out for energy, and the sugar thing is quick energy, but to truly feed your body, give it long-term energy in the form of protein. When I do it, eat cheese or something when all I want is CHOCOLATE, is almost always shushes that craving.


re: diet? I try to eat well for the bulk of my diet, eating whole grains and such, but don't worry if I indulge in other things. And that's b/c I worry about MY health...I figure the babe is getting best of the best and leaving me the rest.
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#9 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 03:07 PM
 
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I personally think it's very important to at least try to avoid trans fats and eat a variety of healthy foods. Water soluble vitamins definitely depend on your diet. The baby will get some no matter what you eat, but the better you eat, the better your milk. Why settle for good enough? KWIM? And trans fats will replace the good fats in your milk, including the EFA's so important for brain growth. I can find references if anyone really wants them.

Again, that's just how I personally feel about it. I don't think my friends who snack on ho ho's or whatever are hurting their babies or making them dumb by eating all that trans fat, I just choose not to do it myself. KWIM?
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#10 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 04:46 PM
 
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First, this is but you guys have got Taurean babies, not Pisces. (Says the stubborn, bull-headed Taurean mama... :LOL )

Second, thanks for posting this! I've been feeling the same way lately. I did notice that I was slipping into the world of diet soda and have since started to cut that out. But I am a caffeine addict. I drink half-caf in the morning and I'll have a cup at work. I try to keep it at the 2 cup limit (although some days I'll push it to 3). Having 2 at and under 2 y.o. makes it hard for me to not start my working days without it.

I've been listening to my body and have decided it's time to start adding more veggies back into the diet. I was doing pretty well when pregnant, but somewhere after ds was born I slipped off the wagon. I noticed that I use to eat more than I am right now -- or at least found more ways to incorporate it into our meals. So I'm working on that.

In an attempt to be proactive for this winter's flu season, I've started taking priobiotics and upping my Vit. C, besides my Calcium & multivit. I need to add in an oil supplement, but $$ has been tight so it's slow going at the moment. I'd like to keep my immune system up so that if I do get sick or it's going around the house, I won't be down and out for long.

As for sugar cravings, definitely keep some nuts handy! I did this while pregnant because I had the same issues with junk food. Then I had read how it's your body's attempt to say it's hungry. We keep all kinds around now, which makes it easy to make your own mixes. I also treat myself to a Trader Joe's trail mix from time to time (I usually get one that has raisins and carobs if I want to be kinda, sorta good in a bad way, KWIM? )
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#11 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Heket, my DH would laugh so hard at me if he knew I forgot Nora was a Taurus! :LOL --after talking about it so much! When is Pisces? March?

Wendy, I knew I had read that somewhere about transfats. If you have links, I'd love to check them out. A friend of mine is a PhD in biological anthropology; she studies the fat composition of primate milk! (Monkeys & humans!) She told me that the fat makeup of milk is a major contributor to brain growth. But I would really like to know how this all works. And so many people in the past 50 years have eaten trans-fat-laden diets...yet I don't think the collective American IQ has suffered as a result...(well, then I look at our president and think, maybe! - but I digress) so it just seems odd to me that it would make THAT much of a difference. But like I said, I do avoid them as much as possible.

Molly, I dunno...nothing seems to shut down the sugar jones for me except soda and/or candy! I don't eat an all-junk-food diet by any means. I usually eat a bagel for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch (healthy sandwich) and a pasta dish with protein for dinner (this is where I get my meager veggies). I snack on nuts. I drink almond milk and some organic cow's milk. But I ALSO eat a candy bar every day and at least one soda and a latte from Starbucks. If I could just replace these things with fresh fruit...or nuts, or cheese...but it ain't happening.

Mona, thanks for the support! I want to think that her milk is the best I can give her. But I can't squelch the guilt.

Delaneymom, yes, I often worry about DD picking up my poor eating habits (and DH's). I hope I can learn to eat healthier and at least hide my junk from her. I know if I drink Coke in front of her she will want some, and I'm not about to start that cycle.
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#12 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 07:09 PM
 
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Ummm...well, I hate to disagree, but I really, really do. Honest opinion? Well, as a holistic/sport nutritionist, I would have to say that our diets have a huge impact on the quality of our milk. Sorry, but saying that the food we consume is all broken down to be similar on a cellular level is simply not true. Everything we eat and drink has an effect on our bodies - all systems of our bodies on all levels. That being said, I'd rather see a baby enjoying breast milk from a Twinkies eating mama, than one with a bottle of formula in its mouth.

OT:
Sugar addiction is a very real phenomena - I too have struggled with this. It's a terrible cycle of craving and temporary relief, followed by more cravings. Just like any other addiction, consuming the substance and finding that the craving has gone away (only for it to return again) is a sure-fire way of recognizing it as an addiction. It's hard for people to hear, but the only way to stop the cravings is to remove the addictive substance - entirely. If that makes you break out in a sweat... well, you may have just confirmed that you have a problem. Eating smaller meals, 5-6 times a day with protein, fresh veggies and good fats will really help to normalize your blood sugar levels.

Sorry to go on, but I do believe that a healthy beginning is a God-given right of each child sent our way.

All the best,
Tara

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Wildly, passionately, eternally in love with my dear husband.

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#13 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Tara, that makes 100% sense to me, but then I think about it in evolutionary terms, and it seems that if the quality of our BM was so dependent on our diet many fewer individuals would have thrived (because there have always been times and places where mothers' diets could not have adequate nutrition for whatever reason) and our species would not have done so well, KWIM? Let me know if that doesn't make sense, I'm typing too fast.
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#14 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Tara, do you have suggestions for the "mini-meals" you recommend to help w/ the sugar problem? part of my problem is I am not at all creative in planning my meals. Thank you!
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#15 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 09:11 PM
 
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Hi Nora's Mama,

But never in the history of our world have humans been introduced to so many UNfoods. Yes, there's times when people have been able to nurse their children when certain nutrients etc. are scarce and everyone survived, but did they THRIVE? Were they truly healthy with strong, functioning immune systems? It's a fact that native cultures following their native diets of non-processed, whole foods are incredibly healthy, but as soon as sugars and other refined products are introduced to their diets...wow! Rotting teeth, skeletal malformations, acne, decreased immunity equaling increased disease. Yes, of course breastfeeding your daughter is a wonderful thing. I encourage every mother to do so regardless of their diet. But, if you're asking me about achieving a vibrant, healthy child and whether or not our diets have any relation to our breast milk, well, I think we all inately know the answer to that question.

All of the foods that are plaguing the health of our industrialized nations (sugar, refined flours, trans fats etc...) are all very new when you consider how long we have lived without them in our diets. We are the experiments, and sadly, so are our children. Sugar depresses our immune system, some experts estimate that decrease to be over 90%, for hours after we eat it. I'm not saying a cookie is going to knock your baby out, I'm just saying that to think it doesn't affect the milk we're passing on may be more hopeful than realistic.

But, like most of the Mamas I talk to, I think you already know this deep down. Maybe that's why you asked the question in the first place?? Maybe it's not guilt you're feeling, but rather a little voice in your head/heart trying to be heard???

All the best to you and Nora.

Tara

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Wildly, passionately, eternally in love with my dear husband.

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#16 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 09:16 PM
 
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Well sure, but it would help to know if you're a vegetarian and what kind of foods you like. I stick to simple, whole, organic foods. Maybe snacks consisting of home-made hummus on manna bread with some cut up vegetables/a protein shake (made with plain whey ISOLATE/hemp protein pdr, fresh berries, flax seed/oil, greens), a poached egg(or two) with a slice of dark, flourless bread (whole grain), some fruit with raw nuts, roasted veggies (I make a large pan at a time) with a piece of chicken breast, etc. If you're having a really bad sugar craving, try substituting an unsweetened protein supplement mixed with a tablespoon of organic, plain cocoa, a teaspoon of stevia, some water (or coconut/almond/rice milk), vanilla, and ice. Honestly, it's delicious!

Hope this helps out a bit.

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#17 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 09:31 PM
 
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I try to eat healthy, and I'm alot more conscious of what I eat when pregnant and breastfeeding. I'm lucky enough to be able to stay home, I just quit my part time job to spend the last month of my pregnancy preparing. This gives me alot more time to prepare meals from scratch. Since we are on a tight budget we really don't buy many snacks, if I feel like eating cookies, I have to make them! This helps me eat less sweets. I don't know if this is feasible for you, though. If there aren't any twinkies in the house, you are more likely to eat some fruit!

I am a huge sweets fan, it doesn't really make sense but I find that eating chunks of block cheese helps my cravings!!

When you want to indulge in sweets, go all out- get something decadent and set aside a time to enjoy it. That's better than snakcing on junk all day, because in the long run that makes you feel gross.

Hope some of these tips help!
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#18 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 10:36 PM
 
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If you eat trans fats they show up in your milk.
http://www.infactcanada.ca/fats.htm

Humans do not possess the ability to break the double hydrogen bond of hydrogenated oil. Crisco, solid at room temp, stays solid in your body! It is the real reason for plaque that accumulates in arteries and the current epidemic of heart disease.

The healthy fats are olive, coconut, walnut, cod liver, and flax oil. Avocado. Butter, cream, eggs (also good sources of vitamin A, omega 3 fatty acids and CLA if from free range, pasture fed animals).

Canola, corn and safflower oil are not healthy.
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/

I disagree that our modern brains have not suffered in recent years. The AAP and CDC says 1 in 6 children has a neurodevelopmental disorder. Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and Multiple Sclerosis are common.

It really bothers me that the research studies are done on IQ points. I guess they are easily quantifiable. And safe. Not like a study correlating MS and formula feeding (although I swear I heard there was one.)

But that's not what BM is "known" for, building healthy brains. For life. No, we talk about a few IQ points. I really could care less about IQ. I don't think a few points will make a difference in my child's life. I've seen so many messages from FF mamas who just say, "Oh, I will play Mozart CDs and read to my child instead of BFing."

So easily dismissed.

But it's all about the proper fats at a critical time in the brain development (something like over 60% of brain is fat). The myelin sheath around the nerves which carry the impulses are made of fats. Let's talk about that, and then maybe the artificially dried and rancid fats in a can will be seen as the dangers they truly are. Who wants their babies brains built on that?

I firmly believe all disease is rooted in improper nutrition.
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#19 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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JaneS: *All* disease? What about environmental toxins? Genetic disorders?

I appreciate your post, however, and you make good points. Just to be clear, I AVOID TRANS FATS!! Although I have not been perfect. Now I will be!

Could someone give me some links so I can read more?? I am fascinated, and slightly shamed. :
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#20 of 219 Old 09-16-2005, 11:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh, I also wanted to say that I talked about IQ as a shorthand for problems in brain development due to transfat consumption...ITA that the focus on "IQ points" is unhelpful.
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#21 of 219 Old 09-17-2005, 12:27 PM
 
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Ok, so I first wrote, "Using the word *all* is maybe pushing it."

But then I thought about it some more. I don't think that is overstating it, I really don't.

Yes, environment and genetics are causes, absolutely. However, excellent nutrition does play a role in keeping the detox pathways of the body open and functioning to mitigate the damage toxins can do. And there are many genetic illnesses that can be effected with extraordinary nutrition.

So, yes, that is my belief right now.

I do believe in the harm of environmental toxins, especially now in this day and age, we are completely bombarded from every direction as no other time in history. Got my mercury fillings out for that very reason. And I'm on the path to healing the damage with nutrition. And cured myself of an autoimmune condition, which may or may not have had its root in mercury poisoning.

(The theories on causes of autism show this for example. Deficiencies in liver glutathione levels prevent a lot of ASD kids from excreting mercury and other metal toxins properly, thus damaging the brain. Is this really genetic though, since vitamin C raises glutathione levels? Perhaps a combination, we don't know for sure.)

I'm currently on a Weston Price kick. His research on the diets of native populations and their low incidence of disease is startling. It is a must read for anyone interested in nutrition.

http://www.mercola.com/2001/jan/21/weston_price.htm

www.westonaprice.org

Also, the modern cookbook based his findings, "Nourishing Traditions", which is only half cookbook and the other half fascinating excerpts from books and research on nutrition.

http://www.mercola.com/2003/mar/8/no...traditions.htm

And regarding genetics. Weston Price found that poor nutrition carried on to the next generation. I think it plays much more of a role than modern medicine is willing to study.

For ex., if all the children in a family (mine) needed glasses and braces, is it genetics? Or because my mom believed in a lowfat diet, and didn't eat enough preformed vitamin A in butter, eggs, cream and fish?
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...aminasaga.html

And we were all formula fed, which the recent article in Mothering showed changes to the dental arch as a result of the hard bottle nipple vs. the soft breast. Interestingly enough, Price found changes in the dental arch, tooth crowding, changes in facial shape as well from poor nutrition. So again, are narrowed nostrils and faces genetic to a family or are they the results of lack of nutrients in the diet as Price's pictures so obviously show?

This is very interesting to me to research and think about. Don't feel shamed. We are all on a path of learning. No mama can know or do everything. I've done some things I regret too, but they only spurred me on to to learn more, and in the long run, our health will be even that much better.
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#22 of 219 Old 09-17-2005, 02:38 PM
 
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Sorry, but saying that the food we consume is all broken down to be similar on a cellular level is simply not true.
Not sure if you were talking about something I said but I suspect you are since I'm the one who used that term, "cellular". Let me be more specific.

From Kellymom.com in speaking about certain "gassy" foods:
Quote:
"...breastmilk is made from what passes into mom's blood, not what is in her stomach or digestive track. Neither the gas nor the undigested carbohydrates (whose breakdown can cause gas in mom) pass into mom's blood, so it is impossible for these things to pass into your milk..."
This is what I was speaking about. Of course certain proteins (such as soy and dairy) are capable of passing into mom's milk.

Also from Kellymom.com:
Quote:
"you do not need to maintain a perfect diet in order to provide quality milk for your baby. In fact, research tells us that the quality of a mother’s diet has little influence on her milk. Nature is very forgiving – mother’s milk is designed to provide for and protect baby even in times of hardship and famine. A poor diet is more likely to affect the mother than her breastfed baby."
Kelly goes on to say
Quote:
"Are healthy eating habits recommended for mom? Absolutely! You will be healthier and feel better if you eat well. It is best for anyone to eat a variety of foods, in close to their naturally-occurring state, but this is not necessary for providing quality milk or for maintaining milk supply. Although it is certainly not recommended, a breastfeeding mother could live on a diet of junk food – mom would not thrive on that diet, but her milk would still meet her baby's needs."
I'd love to see some professional research published in scholarly journals that compares the quality of breast milk in a mother who eats "perfectly" compared to one who does not.
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#23 of 219 Old 09-17-2005, 03:52 PM
 
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whoops wrong post in this thread ... sorry!!!
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#24 of 219 Old 09-17-2005, 04:16 PM
 
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I agree with a pp that all disease is rooted in nutrition and I also believe it's all rooted in the colon (related to nutrition).

That said, I'm not a perfect eater. During pg I did SOOOO well. I ate lot sof protein, which did help with sugar cravings.

Now, like many of you, I have a new baby and crave junky sweets. I'm tired and have so little time to make real food. It's nice to know I'm not the only one.

Bfing makes me RAVENOUS. Dh has done a good job of keeping me fed with healthy food, but I could eat even more...am just realizing I need to up my calorie intake.

hh
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#25 of 219 Old 09-17-2005, 04:40 PM
 
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However Kelly Mom does not talk about leaky gut... which is a relatively new concept. Very few lactation professionals even know about it, and studies have not been done on it.

We simply don't know what passes through the bloodstream in a permeable intestine b/c there is no scientific attention paid to this sort of thing. But is seems reasonable to assume since we are now getting reports that a wide range of foods are causing reactions in exclusively BF babes. This has to mean that food is not being broken down on a cellular level as we assume it is “supposed” to happen.

A mom with a damaged gut is not going to break her food down to a cellular level. Further study of what it means to have a leaky gut shows that the digestive enzymes and intestinal villi do not breaking down food adequately. And whole food molecules pass through to the bloodstream and implicated in a wide range of auto immune disorders, fibromyalgia, allergies, etc.

I haven't read the studies adequately re: quality of BM so I don’t know the parameters (such as what is classified normal could really not be optimal b/c everyone is on the SAD, Standard American Diet, ykwim?) But I do know in the case of intestinal flora for example, a poor and deficient diet does indeed pass yeasts and bad bacteria as a result on to the child, to effect their intestinal flora balance, it doesn't just hurt the mom.

Also, so many women experience low supply around AF that is resolved with calcium/magnesium supplements... which clearly show that low minerals in your diet effect your milk. Might that be the reason why a lot of women also claim to not have enough milk from the beginning, I don't know.

(Because it's not just about eating foods with calcium, sugar strips minerals out of your body, it's about what you don't eat as well. And we all know sugar consumption is at an all time high in this country.)

So in my mind those two examples that I state prove diet of junk food is not going to produce adequate milk, I’m truly shocked Kelly Mom would say that. It does a serious disservice to both moms and babes to espouse this point of view.

I totally agree with you re: studies! But modern medicine treats nutrition as basically irrelevant. It's so frustrating. We are just not going to know definitively the answers to some of these questions.

Also eating “perfectly” is going to be so hotly debated. My idea of perfect used to be low fat vegetarian. It is completely opposite of that right now and I know and see the difference in my health.
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#26 of 219 Old 09-17-2005, 05:08 PM
 
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What is "leaky gut"? I've never heard this term, although I have heard of "virgin gut" as well as read some information regarding "open gut". But, if mom's gut is inadequate to the point that she does not digest her food down to the cellular level then she's not going to pass those undigested foods into her blood and thus, into her breast milk. Her body is simply going to rid itself of those undigested foods, not unlike how the human body rids itself of corn kernels, lol.

The quote I gave from Kellymom regarding a less than desirable diet isn't Kelly's opinion. Kelly's information comes from reputable scholarly journals based on actual research. So if what I quoted was her opinion then I could see how you might disagree. But it's relatively hard to dispute scientific fact if you do not have your own scientific fact(s) to call upon.

I still fail to see any proof that a junk food diet in mom will produce inadequate milk for her baby based on what you say. Because you've seen studies that show that if mom takes calcium/magnesium supplements then her milk supply doesn't decrease during AF and that an imbalance of intestinal flora in mom can cause the same in baby? These ideas seem to be like comparing apples and oranges. Of course it stands to reason that if mom eats crap then her milk will be crap too. But it's just not that simple. Nature has a way of insuring that babies receive what they need.

And by implying that breastfeeding mother's should eat "perfectly" we reinforce the myth that breastfeeding mother's have to somehow be perfect in order to give their baby the best. A great way to turn someone off from breastfeeding

Peace,
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#27 of 219 Old 09-17-2005, 05:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by heket
First, this is but you guys have got Taurean babies, not Pisces. (Says the stubborn, bull-headed Taurean mama... :LOL )
Sorry to chime in when the discussion has moved on, but ds was born March 14, so he is a Pisces; I just misread Nora's dates!! I do that all the time, read numbers wrong....
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#28 of 219 Old 09-17-2005, 05:54 PM
 
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No apologies! I just didn't want you guys to wonder why your babe's traits weren't quite what you might read. It would get awfully confusing... :LOL

This is a very interesting thread. JaneS, I can see where you're coming from. It's a shame that money isn't spend on things like this for studies so we could get a bigger picture with more concrete data.

I guess my personal motto in this matter would be "all things in moderation." We are guinea pigs for this post-industralized world but those items are going away. So while I do want to eat healthy to provide the best nutrients for my nursling, he also has to adapt to this world we're in. I'm not saying that we should eat only junk food or only healthy food, but I feel that a balance of both is needed so that his body can learn to respond to the large varieties of bad things out there (for the lack of a better phrase...). Not sure if that makes sense, but maybe someone out there will get my drift...
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#29 of 219 Old 09-17-2005, 06:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by its_me-mona
I still fail to see any proof that a junk food diet in mom will produce inadequate milk for her baby based on what you say. Because you've seen studies that show that if mom takes calcium/magnesium supplements then her milk supply doesn't decrease during AF and that an imbalance of intestinal flora in mom can cause the same in baby? These ideas seem to be like comparing apples and oranges. Of course it stands to reason that if mom eats crap then her milk will be crap too. But it's just not that simple. Nature has a way of insuring that babies receive what they need.

And by implying that breastfeeding mother's should eat "perfectly" we reinforce the myth that breastfeeding mother's have to somehow be perfect in order to give their baby the best. A great way to turn someone off from breastfeeding
Here is some info for you originally posted by toraji in the Nutrition forum I am posting it here so you don't need to go searching through the thread for it which is long:

Quote:
"Lactation, therefore, appears to be relatively robust in the face of poor nutrition. Maternal diet can, however, affect the breastmilk concentrations of many minor constituents, particularly long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids, some vitamins, zinc, selenium, iodine, and fluorine [51]. The profile of fatty acids in the mother's diet and adipose tissue stores is reflected in the fatty acids of breastmilk [5, 47]. The concentrations of two water-soluble vitamins, riboflavin (vitamin B2) and ascorbic acid (vitamin C), show rapid, dose-related responses to maternal supplementation [4, 50]. The fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E, and K are less responsive to diet because of the buffering action of maternal stores and carrier proteins, but large supplements can result in increased breastmilk concentrations, occasionally to potentially toxic levels [51]. Maternal zinc supplementation may slow the decline in breastmilk zinc concentration during lactation, although the magnitude of this effect and its significance for the breastfed child are still uncertain [41, 54]." from http://www.unu.edu/unupress/food/8F174e/8F174E04.htm

"The vitamin and mineral content of breast milk can be affected by maternal diet. The amount of thiamin, vitamin C, and vitamin B12 in breast milk, for example, varies based on the types of foods and supplements that the mother ingests. Thiamin deficiency (beriberi), iodine deficiency, cretinism, vitamin D deficiency (rickets), and vitamin B12 deficiency (pernicious anemia) have been diagnosed in infants breast-fed by mothers lacking sufficient nutrient levels." http://my.webmd.com/content/article/4/1680_51733

"Breastfed infants generally receive ample DHA from their mother's milk, although amounts vary considerably depending on maternal intake of omega-3 fatty acids. Vegetarian and vegan mothers have lower concentrations of DHA in their milk (26,27), although infant levels of DHA appear to be only slightly less than that of infants of omnivorous mothers (28). A DHA supplement based on cultured microalgae (under the trademark Neuromins) is now available from natural food stores nationwide." http://www.vegetariannutrition.net/...fatty_acids.htm
Surviving on breastmilk isn't the same as being optimally nourished by breastmilk. In order for a baby to be optimally nourished on it's mother's milk the mother need to have an optimal, nutrient dense diet. Sure a mother doesn't "need" a perfect diet, but I can assure you her baby would be much, much better off with one. We would not have so many children with trashed guts nor would we be seeing the chronic diseases, both physical and mental, we have today, and for the most part our children's mouths would be free of dental caries.

I think we should stress the importance of a good diet for nursing mothers and not sugar coat or even ignore the issue just to get women to nurse their babies regardless of what junk they are eating. This was of such great importance to all the indigenous peoples Weston A Price studied that they or their families would go out of their way to provide pregnant and lactating mothers the most nutrient dense of foods they had access too. These people also understood the importance of the pre-conception diet for both the mother and father.

PS: I am no longer breastfeeding, but all of my children were nursed until they were in their 5th year, so I hope I qualify to post here.

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"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

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#30 of 219 Old 09-17-2005, 07:26 PM
 
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Thank you for posting that. I appreciate the links. I have read all of the articles you posted and I must admit, I have some questions. Please don't get me wrong. I enjoy debating things, especially as they relate to Human Lactation and am always eager to learn something new. I have been known to change my mind about things even if I was a strong supporter of the "other" side of the issue That said....

Quote:
Lactation, therefore, appears to be relatively robust in the face of poor nutrition.
Or in other words, lactation appears to be unaffected by poor nutrition in the mother. LOL

Quote:
The concentrations of two water-soluble vitamins, riboflavin (vitamin B2) and ascorbic acid (vitamin C), show rapid, dose-related responses to maternal supplementation [4, 50]. The fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E, and K are less responsive to diet because of the buffering action of maternal stores and carrier proteins, but large supplements can result in increased breastmilk concentrations, occasionally to potentially toxic levels [51].
Riboflavin/B-12: Full-term infants of adequately nourished women are born with a total body vitamin B12 content of 30 to 40 µg (FAO, 1988). Assuming that 0.10 µg/day is required during infancy (FAO, 1988), these stores would supply an infant's needs for approximately 8 months. The 0.4 µg of vitamin B12 per day usually provided by human milk to the exclusively breastfed infant provides for ample accumulation of stores (FAO, 1988; NRC, 1989). Vitamin B12 concentrations in milk, and thus the infant's intake of this vitamin, are dependent on the mother's B12 intake and stores. http://books.nap.edu/books/0309043913/html/157.html

So, we see here that it isn't until about the 8 month mark (in a full-term baby born to a mother who was adequately nourished) that mom's intake of vit b12 isn't much of an issue.

The reference I gave above discusses all of the vitamins and minerals mentioned. It's a really long read though and I have got to get out and get groceries. Unfortunately I just don't have time to link a reference to everything. But I wish I did!

What is an "adequate" diet in a breastfeeding mother though? Who is the one to decide what she needs to eat in order to provide the highest quality breastmilk to her baby? For all we know, those of us who try to get our "10 A Day" in plus the RDA of every vitamin and mineral each and every day could be providing the same quality milk as those who eat 5 A Day (or less) and don't take the RDA of vits/minerals.

To be sure, more research is needed. However, I'm of the opinion that perhaps we should work on getting more mother's to breastfeed in the first place before we start imposing strict dietary restrictions on her
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