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#61 of 111 Old 03-07-2006, 10:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am planning on BFing for at least a year...I posted simply because I am a bit conflicted as to what to do, and since I know there are people elsewhere on mothering that have similar views nutrition-wise, I guess I thought some of those same people might be on this board, also...my mistake. I guess I also should have read a few more of the posts here to determine what the prevailing opinion on this board is and not bothered posting anything that didn't fully agree with that opinion.

That being said, I have read abstracts for some of the studies listed (not sure if that is the same as a summary that somebody else referred to). It is virtually impossible to find the whole text of any study unless you either find a book that it has been published in or you pay to subscribe to the sites that list the full text, so I have to be content with the abstracts. I have also read a book by Dr (an actual MD, not a dentist) Tom Brewer, who did a great deal of research (he actually ran the studies) on nutrition and pregnancy. I trust that his conclusions based on his own research are accurate. I listed links to his site below the WAP ones...guess I should have listed those first and maybe people would have been a bit more open (granted they are discussing nutrition during pregnancy, not breast feeding, but I believe the principle applies to both).
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#62 of 111 Old 03-07-2006, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And while we're on the subject of research, can anybody point me to a study showing that babies need BM for the first 2 years? Before anybody gets all up in arms, I'm not saying that they don't (I have no idea either way, never heard that before), I would just like to know where this is coming from.
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#63 of 111 Old 03-07-2006, 10:15 PM
 
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References: Nutritional Benefits


See also Breastmilk Composition

Ahn CH, MacLean WC Jr. Growth of the exclusively breast-fed infant. Am J Clin Nutr. 1980 Feb;33(2):183-92.

Briend A, Wojtyniak B and Rowland MG. Breast feeding, nutritional state, and child survival in rural Bangladesh. Br Med J (Clin Res Ed). 1988 Mar 26;296(6626):879-82.

Casey CE, Neville MC, Hambidge KM. Studies in human lactation: secretion of zinc, copper, and manganese in human milk. Am J Clin Nutr 1989 May;49(5):773-85.

Dewey KG, Finley DA, Lonnerdal B. Breast milk volume and composition during late lactation (7-20 months). J Pediatr Gastroenterol Nutr 1984 Nov;3(5):713-20.

Dewey KG. Nutrition, Growth, and Complementary Feeding of the Breastfed Infant. Pediatric Clinics of North American. February 2001;48(1).

Grummer-Strawn LM. Does prolonged breast-feeding impair child growth? A critical review. Pediatrics. 1993;91:766-771.

Hamosh M, Dewey, Garza C, et al: Nutrition During Lactation. Institute of Medicine, Washington, DC, National Academy Press, 1991. This book is available free from the HRSA Information Center (look under Nutrition publications).

Jelliffe DB and Jelliffe EF. The volume and composition of human milk in poorly nourished communities. A review. Am J Clin Nutr. 1978 Mar;31(3):492-515.

Karra MV, Udipi SA, Kirksey A, and Roepke JL. Changes in specific nutrients in breast milk during extended lactation. Am J Clin Nutr. 1986; 43: 495-503.

Mandel D, Lubetzky R, Dollberg S, Barak S, Mimouni FB. Fat and Energy Contents of Expressed Human Breast Milk in Prolonged Lactation. Pediatrics. 2005 Sept; 116(3):e432-e435.

Onyango, Adelheid W., Receveur, Olivier and Esrey, Steven A. The contribution of breast milk to toddler diets in western Kenya. Bull World Health Organ, 2002, vol.80 no.4. ISSN 0042-9686.

Persson V, Greiner T, Islam S, and Gebre-Medhin M. The Helen Keller international food-frequency method underestimates vitamin A intake where sustained breastfeeding is common. Food and Nutrition Bulletin, vol.19 no.4. Tokyo, Japan: United Nations University Press, 1998.

Rohde JE. Breastfeeding beyond twelve months. Lancet. 1988 Oct 29;2(8618):1016.

Shattock FM, Stephens AJ. Letter: Duration of breast-feeding. Lancet. 1975 Jan 11;1(7898):113-4.

Tangermann RH, et al. Breastfeeding beyond twelve months. Lancet. 1988 Oct 29;2(8618):1016.

Underwood BA. Weaning practices in deprived environments: the weaning dilemma. Pediatrics. 1985 Jan;75(1 Pt 2):194-8.

UNICEF/Wellstart: Promoting Breastfeeding in Health Facilities: A short course for Administrators and Policy Makers; WHO/CDR 93.4.

Victora CG, et al. Is prolonged breastfeeding associated with malnutrition? Am J Clin Nutr. 1984 Feb;39(2):307-14.

Whitehead RG. The human weaning process. Pediatrics. 1985 Jan;75(1 Pt 2):189-93.

[top] References: Immunological Benefits


Immune factors in human milk @

Briend A, Wojtyniak B and Rowland MG. Breast feeding, nutritional state, and child survival in rural Bangladesh. Br Med J (Clin Res Ed). 1988 Mar 26;296(6626):879-82.

Goldman AS et al. Immunologic components in human milk during weaning. Acta Paediatr Scand. 1983 Jan;72(1):133-4.

Goldman AS, Goldblum RM, Garza C. Immunologic components in human milk during the second year of lactation. Acta Paediatr Scand. 1983 May;72(3):461-2.

Gulick EE. The effects of breastfeeding on toddler health. Pediatr Nurs. 1986 Jan-Feb;12(1):51-4.

Hamosh M. Bioactive factors in human milk. Pediatr Clin North Am 2001 Feb;48(1):69-86.

Hamosh M, Dewey, Garza C, et al: Nutrition During Lactation. Institute of Medicine, Washington, DC, National Academy Press, 1991, pp. 133-140. This book is available free from the HRSA Information Center (look under Nutrition publications).

Lawrence R and Lawrence R. Breastfeeding: A Guide for the Medical Profession, 5th ed. St. Louis: Mosby, 1999, p. 159-195. See particularly Table 5-2 on p. 169: "Concentration of immunologic components in human milk collected during second year of lactation"

Palti H, Mansbach I, Pridan H, Adler B, Palti Z. Episodes of illness in breast-fed and bottle-fed infants in Jerusalem. Isr J Med Sci 1984 May;20(5):395-9.

[top] References: Allergies


Halken S, Host A, Hansen LG, Osterballe O. Effect of an allergy prevention programme on incidence of atopic symptoms in infancy. A prospective study of 159 "high-risk" infants. Allergy 1992 Oct;47(5):545-53.

Hanson LA, Korotkova M, Telemo E. Breast-feeding, infant formulas, and the immune system. Ann Allergy Asthma Immunol. 2003 Jun;90(6 Suppl 3):59-63.

Marini A, Agosti M, Motta G, Mosca F. Effects of a dietary and environmental prevention programme on the incidence of allergic symptoms in high atopic risk infants: three years' followup. Acta Pædiatr 1996;Suppl 414 vol 85:1-19.

Saarinen UM, Kajosaari M. Breastfeeding as prophylaxis against atopic disease: prospective follow-up study until 17 years old. Lancet 1995;346:1065-69.

Savilahti E, et al. Prolonged exclusive breast feeding and heredity as determinants in infantile atopy. Arch Dis Child. 1987 Mar;62(3):269-73.

[top] References: Intelligence


Breastfeeding and Cognitive Function Bibliography by Marsha Walker,RN,IBCLC

Anderson GJ, Connor WE, Corliss JD. Docosohexaenoic acid is the preferred dietary n-3 fatty acid for the development of the brain and retina. Pediatr Res 1990;27:87-97.
Anderson JW. Breast-feeding and cognitive development: a meta-analysis. Am J Clin Nutr 1999, Oct; 70(4): 525-35.

Andraca I, Uauy R. Breastfeeding for optimal mental development. Simopoulos AP, Dutra de Oliveira JE, Desai ID (eds): Behavioral and Metabolic Aspects of Breastfeeding. World Rev Nutr Diet. Basel, Karger, 1995;78:1-27.

Bauer G et al. Breastfeeding and cognitive development of three-year-old children. Psychological Reports 1991; 68:1218.

Crawford MA. The role of essential fatty acids in neural development: implications for perinatal nutrition. Am J Clin Nutr 1993;57(suppl):703S-10S.

Elwood PC, Pickering J, Gallacher JE, Hughes J, Davies D. Long term effect of breast feeding: cognitive function in the Caerphilly cohort. J Epidemiol Community Health. 2005 Feb;59(2):130-3.

Florey C Du V, Leech AM, Blackhall A. Infant feeding and mental and motor development at 18 months of age in first born singletons. Int J Epidem 1995;24 (Suppl 1):S21-6.

Gordon N. Nutrition and cognitive function. Brain and Development 1997;19:165-70.

Greene LC, Lucas A, Livingstone BE, Harland PSEG, Baker BA. Relationship between early diet and subsequent cognitive performance during adolescence. Biochem Soc Trans 1995;23:376S.

Horwood LJ, Darlow BA, Mogridge N. Breast milk feeding and cognitive ability at 7-8 years. Arch Dis Child Fetal Neonatal Ed. 2001 Jan;84(1):F23-7.

Horwood LJ, Fergusson DM. Breastfeeding and later cognitive and academic outcomes. Pediatrics. 1998 Jan;101(1):E9.

Lucas A, Morley R, Cole TJ, Lister G, Leeson-Payne C. Breastmilk and subsequent intelligence quotient in children born preterm. Lancet 1992;339:261-4.

Makrides M, Neumann MA, Byard RW, Simmer K, Gibson RA. Fatty acid composition of brain, retina and erythrocytes in breast and formula fed infants. Am J Clin Nutr 1994;60:189-94.

Morley R, Cole TJ, Powell R, Lucas A. Mother's choice to provide breast milk and developmental outcome. Arch Dis Child. 1988 Nov;63(11):1382-5.

Morrow-Tlucak M, Haude RH, Ernhart CB. Breastfeeding and cognitive development in the first 2 years of life. Soc Sci Med. 1988;26(6):635-9.

Mortensen EL, Michaelsen KF, Sanders SA, Reinisch JM. The Association Between Duration of Breastfeeding and Adult Intelligence. JAMA. 2002;287:2365-2371.

Nettleton JA. Are n-3 fatty acids essential nutrients for fetal and infant development. J Am Diet Assoc 1993;93:58-64.

Neuringer M, Connor WE, Lin DS, Barstad L, Luck S. Biochemical and functional effects of prenatal and postnatal fatty acid deficiency on retina and brain in rhesus monkeys. Proc Natl Acad Sc USA 1986;83:4021-5.

Niemelä A, Järvenpää A-L. Is breastfeeding beneficial and maternal smoking harmful to the cognitive development of children? Acta Pædiatr 1996;85:1202-6.

Oddy WH, et al. Breast feeding and cognitive development in childhood: a prospective birth cohort study. Paediatr Perinat Epidemiol. 2003 Jan;17(1):81-90.

Paine BJ, Makrides M, Gibson RA. Duration of breastfeeding and Bayley's mental developmental Index at 1 year of age. J Paediatr Child Health 1999;35:82-5.

Pollock JI. Longterm associations with infant feeding in a clinically advantaged population of babies. Dev Med Child Neur 1994;36:429-40.

Richards M, Hardy R, Wadsworth ME. Long-term effects of breast-feeding in a national birth cohort: educational attainment and midlife cognitive function. Public Health Nutr. 2002 Oct;5(5):631-5.

Riva E, Agostoni C, Biasucci G, Trojan S, Luotti D, Fiori L, et al. Early breastfeeding is linked to higher intelligence quotient scores in dietary treated phenylketonuric children. Acta Pædiatr 1996;85:56-8.

Rodgers B. Feeding in infancy and later ability and attainment: a longitudinal study. Devel Med Child Neurol 1978;20:421-6.

Rogan WJ, Gladen BC. Breastfeeding and cognitive development. Early Hum Dev 1993;31:181-93.

Silver LB, Levinson RB, Laskin CR, Pilot LJ. Learning disabilities as a probable consequence of using chloride-deficient infant formula. J Pediatr 1989;115:97-9

Taylor B, Wadsworth J. Breastfeeding and child development at five years. Dev Med Child Neurol 1984;26:73-80.

Temboury MC, Otero A, Polanco I, Arribas E. Influence of breastfeeding on the infant's intellectual development. J Pediatric Gastroenterol Nutr 1994;18:32-36.

Wang YS, Wu SY. The effect of exclusive breastfeeding on development and incidence of infection in infants. JHL 1996;12:27-30.

Willoughby A, Moss HA, Hubbard VS, Bercu BB, Graubard BI, Vietze PM, et al. Developmental outcome in children exposed to chloride deficient formula. Pediatrics 1987;79:851-7.

Wing CS. Defective infant formulas and expressive language problems: a case study. Language, Speech and Hearing Services in Schools 1990;21:22-7.

[top] References: Social Adjustment


Baldwin, EN. Extended Breastfeeding and the Law. Mothering 1993 (Spring);66:88.

Baumgartner C. Psychomotor and Social Development of Breast Fed and Bottle Fed babies During their First year of Life. Acta Paediatrica Hungarica, 1984.

Ferguson DM et al. Breastfeeding and subsequent social adjustment in six- to eight-year-old children. J Child Psychol Psychiatr Allied Discip 1987; 28:378-86.

Waletzky LR. Breastfeeding and weaning. Some psychological considerations. Prim Care. 1979 Jun;6(2):341-55.

[top] References: Breastfeeding as the Norm


American Academy of Pediatrics Section on Breastfeeding. Breastfeeding and the Use of Human Milk. Pediatrics. Feb 2005;115(2): 496-50.

The American Academy of Family Physicians. Position Paper on Breastfeeding. 2001.

Dettwyler KA. A Natural Age of Weaning.

Dettwyler KA."A Time to Wean" from Breastfeeding: Biocultural Perspectives, 1995.

Novello A, MD, US Surgeon General, "You Can Eat Healthy," Parade Magazine (11 Nov 1990): 5.

World Health Organization. Global strategy on infant and young child feeding. 16 April 2002.

World Health Organization. Innocenti Declaration: World Declaration and
Plan of Action for Nutrition. Rome, December 1992.

[top] References: Mother's Fertility


The Lactational Amenorrhea Method of birth control

Badroui MHH, Hefnawi F. Ovarian function during lactation. In: Hafez ESE, ed. Human Ovulation. Amsterdam: Elsevier-North Holland Biomedical, 1979: 233-41.

Diaz S, Aravena R, Cardenas H, Casado ME, Miranda P, Schiappacasse V, Croxatto HB. Contraceptive efficacy of lactational amenorrhea in urban Chilean women. Contraception. 1991 Apr;43(4):335-52.

Diaz S, Peralta O, Juez G, Salvatierra AM, Casado ME, Duran E, Croxatto HB. Fertility regulation in nursing women: I. The probability of conception in full nursing women living in an urban setting. J Biosoc Sci. 1982 Jul;14(3):329-41.

Elias,M.F. "Nursing Practices and Lactation Amenorrhoea." Journal of Biosco Sci, 1968.

Kennedy KI, Visness CM. Contraceptive efficacy of lactational amenorrhoea. Lancet. 1992 Jan 25;339(8787):227-30.

Lewis PR, Brown JB, Renfree MB, Short RV. The resumption of ovulation and menstruation in a well-nourished population of women breastfeeding for an extended period of time. Fertil Steril. 1991 Mar;55(3):529-36.

Rolland R: Bibliography (with review) on contraceptive effects of breastfeeding. Biblio Reprod 1976;28:1-4, 93.

Short RV, Lewis PR, Renfree MB, Shaw G. Contraceptive effects of extended lactational amenorrhoea: beyond the Bellagio Consensus. Lancet. 1991 Mar 23;337(8743):715-7.

Simpson-Hebert M, Huffman SL. The contraceptive effect of breastfeeding. Stud Fam Plann 1981;12:125-33.

Van Ginnekin JK. Prolonged breastfeeding as a birth spacing method. Stud Fam Plann 1974;5:201-6.

[top] References: Less Ovarian Cancer


Gwinn ML, Lee NC, Rhodes PH, Layde PM, Rubin GL. Pregnancy, breastfeeding and oral contraceptives and the risk of epithelial ovarian cancer. J Clin Epidemiol 1990;43:559-68.

Hartge P, Schiffman MH, Hoover R, McGowan L, Lesher L, Norris HJ. A case control study of epithelial ovarian cancer. Am J Obstet Gynecol 1989;161:10-6.

Rosenblatt KA, Thomas DB, and the WHO collaborative study of neoplasia and steroid contraceptives. Lactation and the risk of epithelial ovarian cancer. International J Epidemiol 1993;22:192-7.

Schneider AP. Risk factor for ovarian cancer. N Engl J Med. 1987 Aug 20;317(8):508-9.

[top] References: Less Uterine Cancer


Brock KE et al. Sexual, reproductive and contraceptive risk factors for carcinoma-in-situ of the uterine cervix in Sydney. Med J Aust. 1989 Feb 6;150(3):125-30.

[top] References: Less Endometrial Cancer


Petterson B, Hans-Olov A, Berström R, Johansson EDB. Menstruation span-a time-limited risk factor for endometrial carcinoma. Acta Obstet Gynecol Scand 1986;65:247-55.

Rosenblatt KA, Thomas DB, and the WHO collaborative study of neoplasia and steroid contraceptives. Prolonged Lactation and endometrial cancer. Int J Epidemiol 1995;24:499-503.

[top] References: Less Osteoporosis


Osteoporosis: Reduced risk with nursing? by Debbi Donovan, IBCLC

Osteoporosis by Kathryn Orlinsky, PhD

See Calcium for more information and references.

[top] References: Less Rheumatoid Arthritis


Karlson EW, Mandl LA, Hankinson SE, Grodstein F. Do breast-feeding and other reproductive factors influence future risk of rheumatoid arthritis? Results from the Nurses' Health Study. Arthritis Rheum. 2004 Nov;50(11):3458-67.

[top] References: Less Breast Cancer (breastfed as child)


Barba M, et al. Premenopausal women who were heavier than average at birth or had not been breastfed as infants appear to be at increased risk for developing breast cancer. Reported at the American Association for Cancer Research 2005 annual meeting in Anaheim, CA.

Freudenheim JL et al. Exposure to breastmilk in infancy and the risk of breast cancer. Epidemiology. 1994 May;5(3):324-31.

[top]
References: Less Breast Cancer (mother)


Collaborative Group on Hormonal Factors in Breast Cancer. Breast cancer and breastfeeding: collaborative reanalysis of individual data from 47 epidemiological studies in 30 countries, including 50302 women with breast cancer and 96973 women without the disease. Lancet. 2002 Jul 20; 360(9328): 187-95.

Furberg H, Newman B, Moorman P, Millikan R. Lactation and breast cancer risk. Int J Epidemiol 1999;28:396-402.

Ing R, Ho JHC, Petrakis NL. Unilateral breastfeeding and breast cancer. Lancet July 16, 1997;124-27.

Jernstrom H, et al. Breast-feeding and the risk of breast cancer in BRCA1 and BRCA2 mutation carriers. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2004 Jul 21;96(14):1094-8.

Layde PM, Webster LA, Baughman AL, Wingo PA, Rubin GL, Ory HW and the cancer and steroid hormone study group. The independent associations of parity, age at first full term pregnancy, and duration of breastfeeding with the risk of breast cancer. J Clin Epidemiol 1989;42:963-73.

Lee SY, Kim MT, Kim SW, Song MS, Yoon SJ. Effect of lifetime lactation on breast cancer risk: A Korean Women's Cohort Study. Int J Cancer. 2003 Jun 20;105(3):390-3.

McTiernan A, Thomas DB. Evidence for a protective effect of lactation on risk of breast cancer in young women. Am J Epidemiol 1986;124:353-74.

Newcomb PA, Storer BE, Longnecker MP, Mittendorf R, Greenberg ER, Clapp RW, et al. Lactation and a reduced risk of premenopausal breast cancer. N Eng J Med 1994;330:81-7

Reuter KL, Baker SP, Krolikowski FJ. Risk factors for breast cancer in women undergoing mammography. Am J Radiol 1992;158:273-8.

Romieu I, Hernández-Avila M, Lazcano E, Lopez L, Romero-Jaime R. Breast cancer and lactation history in Mexican women. Am J Epidemiol 1996;143:543-52.

Siskind V, Schofield F, Rice D, Bain C. Breast cancer and breastfeeding: results from an Australian case-control study. Am J Epidemiol 1989;130:229-36.

Tao S-C, Yu MC, Ross RK, Xiu K-W. Risk factors for breast cancer in Chinese women of Beijing. Int J Cancer 1988;42:495-98.

United Kingdom National Case-Control Study Group. Breastfeeding and risk of breast cancer in young women. Br Med J 1993;307:17-20.

Yoo K-Y, Tajima K, Kuroishi T, Hirose K, Yoshida M, Miura S, Murai H. Independent protective effect of lactation against breast cancer: a case-control study in Japan. Am J Epidemiol 1992;135:726-33.

Yuan J-M, Yu MC, Ross RK, Gao Y-T, Henderson BE. Risk factors for breast cancer in Chinese women in Shanghai. Cancer Res 1988;58:99-104.

Zheng T et al. Lactation and breast cancer risk: a case-control study in Connecticut. Br J Cancer 2001 Jun;84(11):1472-6.

Zheng T et al. Lactation reduces breast cancer risk in Shandong Province, China. Am J Epidemiol 2000 Dec 15;152(12):1129-35.

[top] References: Diabetes - Decreased Insulin Requirements


Davies HA et al. Insulin requirements of diabetic women who breast feed. BMJ. 1989 May 20;298(6684):1357-8.

[top] References: Mother's Weight loss


Butte NF, Garza C. Anthropometry in the appraisal of lactation performance among well-nourished women. pp. 61-67 in M Hamish and AS Goldman, eds Human Lactation 2: Maternal and Environmental Factors. Plenum Press, New York.

Butte NF, Garza C, Stuff JE, Smith EO, Nichols BL. Effect of maternal diet and body composition on lactational performance. Am J Clin Nutr. 1984 Feb;39(2):296-306.

Dewey KG, Heinig MJ, Nommsen LA. Maternal weight-loss patterns during prolonged lactation. Am J Clin Nutr 1993;58:162-6.

Heinig MJ, Nommsen LA, Dewey KG. Lactation and postpartum weight loss. FASEB J 1990;4:362 (abstract).

Heinig MJ et al. Lactation and postpartum weight loss. Mechanisms Regulating Latation and Infant Nutrient Utilization 1992;30:397-400.

Kramer FM et al. Breast-feeding reduces maternal lower-body fat. J Am Diet Assoc. 1993 Apr;93(4):429-33.

Manning-Dalton C, Allen LH. The effects of lactation on energy and protein consumption, postpartum weight change and body composition of well nourished North American women. Nutr Res 1983;3:293-308.

Ohlin A, Rossner S. Maternal body weight development after pregnancy. Int J Obes 1990 Feb;14(2):159-73.

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#65 of 111 Old 03-07-2006, 10:30 PM
 
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The World Health Organization recommends breastfeeding for at least two years and however long after that mother and baby are comfortable.

http://www.who.int/child-adolescent-..._exclusive.htm

Two years can seem like a very long time to someone nursing a young infant. I haven't read all the posts. I read some of the early ones and some at the end. Sorry if I'm repeating anything. Make yourself small goals and when you get there reassess your feelings and what's in the best interests of the baby and make another goal.

It is entirely possible to get pregnant while nursing without sacrificing the nursing relationship before your child is two. My daughter will be 21 months when #3 arrives this summer. There are things you can do to increase fertility while nursing if you find you are not ovulating when you are ready to ttc. Cross that bridge when you get there. I was nursing my son when I was ready to ttc my second. I started ovulating when we weaned from nursing at night. That's all it took for my fertility to return. It was quite a different situation conceiving #3 as my cycles had returned sooner for some strange reason.

Some mothers wean during pregnancy, others don't. There's not a right or wrong answer for that one. It's one each of us has to make after reading as much info as we can on the subject. I found the book Adventures in Tandem Nursing to be very informative and it had not only mother's stories, but the most recent research on nursing while pregnant and tandem nursing. It really helped me make my decision for both. My son weaned while pregnant so I didn't have to decide on the tandem nursing. Right now, dd is still nursing and it remains to be seen what will happen with that. I am not certain how I feel about it, but I will cross that bridge when I get there.
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#66 of 111 Old 03-07-2006, 10:34 PM
 
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Just wanted to add that I agree with you in a way, caedmyn. If you didn't have an adequate diet (i.e. someone who is malnourished and very underweight) then there might be some issues with nursing through pregnancy- pre-e, things like that. BUT with an adequate diet (increased calorie and nutrient intake) there really shouldn't be a problem. If you do decide to have another baby and feel that your little one isn't ready to wean, just make sure you are taking good care of yourself and eating enough. There should be plenty of nutrition to go around no matter what viewpoint you take if you do that.

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#67 of 111 Old 03-07-2006, 10:39 PM
 
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Reading this thread, I find Caedmyn's posts to be well-composed and respectful. Some people have responded very nicely and helpfully. Others have been contemptuous and hostile. I don't know who is right on the issue of whether nursing during pregnancy puts fetal health at risk, although I am usually inclined to trust La Leche. But regardless of who is right, I think a greater effort could be made to respond respectfully to those with whom we disagree.

I originally planned to BF for a year. After being on MDC since DD's birth, I am now reconsidering and thinking about going longer. Posts that encourage me in this direction are those that discuss and celebrate the benefits of extended breastfeeding in a rational manner. Posts that do NOT encourage me are those that make it seem that those promoting this choice are intolerant and have an ax to grind. In general, MDC is so supportive and informative. But sometimes there is a judgmental tinge that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. A mother who breastfeeds for a year is still doing far, far more for her child than the vast majority. Let's celebrate that.
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#68 of 111 Old 03-07-2006, 10:41 PM
 
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I haven't seen anyone have a problem with her weaning at a year. It is her body. She can wean when she wants. I am nursing through pregnancy, but it is not for everyone. What people have aproblem with is her spreading blatantly incorrect and false information, and possibly scaring pregnant women who are nursing, etc.

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#69 of 111 Old 03-07-2006, 11:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrklynMama
Others have been contemptuous and hostile. I
Which posts are you referring to? I haven't seen that. I see disagreement but not hostility.

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#70 of 111 Old 03-07-2006, 11:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrklynMama
Reading this thread, I find Caedmyn's posts to be well-composed and respectful. Some people have responded very nicely and helpfully. Others have been contemptuous and hostile. I don't know who is right on the issue of whether nursing during pregnancy puts fetal health at risk, although I am usually inclined to trust La Leche. But regardless of who is right, I think a greater effort could be made to respond respectfully to those with whom we disagree.

I originally planned to BF for a year. After being on MDC since DD's birth, I am now reconsidering and thinking about going longer. Posts that encourage me in this direction are those that discuss and celebrate the benefits of extended breastfeeding in a rational manner. Posts that do NOT encourage me are those that make it seem that those promoting this choice are intolerant and have an ax to grind. In general, MDC is so supportive and informative. But sometimes there is a judgmental tinge that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. A mother who breastfeeds for a year is still doing far, far more for her child than the vast majority. Let's celebrate that.
I certainly have tried very hard to be respectful on this thread. I have no issues with anything other than the misinformation about breastfeeding while pregnant, which I felt was important to correct. Honestly, I haven't really noticed any posts on this thread that have been judgmental or disrespectful.
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#71 of 111 Old 03-07-2006, 11:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caedmyn

It always amazes me when someone who is willing to go against the mainstream in one area (such as extended breast feeding) is completely closed minded to anything that goes against the mainstream in another area. But I guess I should know to expect it, and there's always the chance that just one person will be interested enough to actually research for themselves.

Who here is closeminded to something that goes against the mainstream? Breastfeeding during pregnancy and tandem nursing definitely goes against the mainstream. For sure.

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#72 of 111 Old 03-07-2006, 11:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BrklynMama
Reading this thread, I find Caedmyn's posts to be well-composed and respectful. Some people have responded very nicely and helpfully. Others have been contemptuous and hostile. I don't know who is right on the issue of whether nursing during pregnancy puts fetal health at risk, although I am usually inclined to trust La Leche. But regardless of who is right, I think a greater effort could be made to respond respectfully to those with whom we disagree.

Respectfully, it doesn't matter how well composed & polite Caedmyn's posts are- if they are claiming false information to be true, then we, the long time members of Mothering Message Board, who have nursed babies for 3,4,5 years, who are LLLLeaders, who care if even ONE pregnant woman reads Caedmyn's words & unnecessarily weans her little one... WE have a right to speak up. I don't see where anyone was less than respectful.

Caedmyn said:
Quote:
I am planning on BFing for at least a year...I posted simply because I am a bit conflicted as to what to do, and since I know there are people elsewhere on mothering that have similar views nutrition-wise, I guess I thought some of those same people might be on this board, also...my mistake. I guess I also should have read a few more of the posts here to determine what the prevailing opinion on this board is and not bothered posting anything that didn't fully agree with that opinion.
I would like to know of anyone else on Mothering who believes as you do- that when a pregnant woman nurses her toddler, the woman is the first in line nutritionally. I have never seen anyone else here even come close to implying such nonsense. I don't know anyone in my life who believes that, actually. I thought it was common knowledge that the fetus gets first dibs, then the toddler, then mama.

I don't think you have to only post in line with prevailing opinion- but you really should look at where you are. Mothering is DEFINITELY pro breastfeeding. Tandem nursing, or nursing while pregnant, is not seen as weird or dangerous here, so of course when posters come along implying as much, we are going to get up in arms.
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#73 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 12:27 AM
 
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This is fairly humorous to me. I have had all of my children about 2 years apart. There have been no problems except the stretch marks.

I wouldn't take the time away from your precious babe wondering or arguing about this.

Just enjoy it while it lasts, we have no promises for tomorrow.

Carrie, The Birthteacher CCE and Doula, real mom to five; and womb-mom to G. born at 23w by emergency C. 12/09
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#74 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 01:28 AM
 
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[QUOTE=caedmyn]I have to disagree with those who are saying that the babe in utero gets their nutrition first--the research I have done indicates that the mother gets their nutrition first and the babe has to take what is left. I know this is not what most doctors will tell you or the traditional view, but when you really research it that is what actually happens. It makes sense if you stop and think about it--the mother is naturally the stronger party so it is God's way of making sure the one who is more likely to survive survives if only one can.
QUOTE]


Can you tell me where you found this info? I am trying to decide about ttc and weaning is not an option for me. Everything I have read seems to uphold the idea that a fetus will be taken care of first so I would be interested in the opposing viewpoint.

Thanks
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#75 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 02:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by caedmyn
That being said, I have read abstracts for some of the studies listed (not sure if that is the same as a summary that somebody else referred to). It is virtually impossible to find the whole text of any study unless you either find a book that it has been published in or you pay to subscribe to the sites that list the full text, so I have to be content with the abstracts. I have also read a book by Dr (an actual MD, not a dentist) Tom Brewer, who did a great deal of research (he actually ran the studies) on nutrition and pregnancy. I trust that his conclusions based on his own research are accurate.
Yes, abstracts = summaries. It is not hard to find the studies, I do it all the time. One has only to go to a good-sized university library to look them up -- they are generally published in journals, not books, and most of the ones I saw in that list of references are large, mainstream publications that should be readily found. If one does not live near a university, it is still possible to get the journals and articles (interlibrary loan, or through PubMed's Loansome Doc program) if sufficiently motivated. It is imperative to read original studies if one truly wants to make informed decisions based on research. Abstracts are simply not a substitute; sometimes the abstract will contradict the actual study.

And for the record, although I think Weston Price is a crackpot overall, there is some good research which parallels some of his ideas on nutrition and diet. The information offered about breastfeeding, however, is complete nonsense.
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#76 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 02:36 PM
 
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I think we also need to consider the TIME of Weston PRice. 1930's and 1940's. You know. When only the poorest of the poor breastfed at all? Completely possible that the man's information isn't as scientifically advanced as the information we have now? It takes 10 minutes to check hemaglobin these days. How long did it take then?

Every year they find new componants to breastmilk. Componants that aren't found any other baby ready foods.

It's lonely being the only XX in a house of XYs.
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#77 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 02:54 PM
 
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Making breastmilk is as nutritionally demanding as making blood. Yes, there are more demands on the mother's body to produce milk. There are also extra demands made to menstruate and to gestate (as compared to men).

The main extra requirements on a woman's body to menstruate, gestate and lactate is to get plenty of iron rich foods, protein, calcium and water. A balanced (not necc perfect) diet, and a good vitamin/mineral supplement are available to most Western women.

If you do not eat well, as pg women in the mid 20th century often were told not to by their drs, in a sadly misguided effort to have small babies (and before tobacco research was done, they would smoke instead of eating), you can suffer anemia and calcium loss. Women (my mother included) were expected to faint often and lose a tooth per pregnancy. Now we know much more about nutrition.

As other posters have said, and this is backed up by research as available on kellymom.com and lalecheleague.org, your milk decreases greatly in the middle trimester anyway and does not require much if anything from your body to make it. Colstrum starts to be produced in the 3rd trimester in tiny amts.

The larger amts of milk being made if you are lactating while pg in the first trimester are not going to interfere with the development of the embryo/fetus, b/c that grain of rice or bean sized embryo does not really require that much extra nutrition from your body to develop normally at that time. If it did, women would not be puking up a storm yet produce full sized full term healthy babies 9 mos later! LOL
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#78 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 03:24 PM
 
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I just read the Weston Price review of the Womanly Art of Breastfeeding's nutritional information. It is inaccurate on many points.

Quote:
Nursing mothers should cut back on animal fats and eat more plant-based proteins, they say. "Any fat that is solid at room temperature (butter, margarine, vegetable shortening) should be eaten in moderation," is their advice, even though butter is an important source of nutrients and the trans fats in margarine and vegetable shortening are really bad news for the developing infant.
Most people in the US eat too much fat. That is why we are increasingly overweight. Surely the reviewer, who believes in Nourishing Traditions, is aware of this. The WAB does not recommend cutting out all fat, just using it in moderation. LLL recommends a whole foods diet, which would prefer butter over transfats in margarine and other solid "shortenings" such as Crisco and lard.

more from the review:

Quote:
Nursing women should also avoid salt, they say, even though salt is vital for the development of the baby's brain and nervous system.
Actually the WAB says to "reduce" salt intake (as compared to typical Western dietary use, such as one full of processed foods) not to avoid it altogether. That is a ridiculous and false charge.

LLL recommends a varied whole foods diet, low in processed foods, chemical additives, saturated fat, white flour and sugar. It does not recommend a vegetarian diet per se, but points out the typical Westerner eats too much fatty beef.

One more false charge:

Quote:
As for supplementation, only brewers yeast and B12 for vegetarians are recommended.
Actual text from the WAB:

Quote:
Your dr may advise supplementary vitamins and minerals for you during your pregnancy, particularly iron, to replenish the stores from which your baby us building up his own suply of iron to carry him through at leas the first half year of his life. During the time you are bfing, your dr may suggest you keep taking them...a vegan [should at least take] a b12 supplement.
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#79 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 05:13 PM
 
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If anyone is interested in a much larger thread with a great deal of research and quotes from studies showing that a deficient diet produces deficient breastmilk, see this thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=343188

Also there was a recent Mothering magazine article on the Myths of Breastfeeding that mentioned that diet is essential to good quality milk.

There is refined processed salt and then there is sea salt, with minerals intact. They are very different. Processed salt does not combine with the blood properly and causes a great deal of problems.

Saturated fats are not why Americans are overwieght. Saturated fat and beef consumption has gone way way down compared to many years ago. It's the processed foods, white flour, sugar, unhealthy vegetable fats and fake fats. Saturated fats are excellent for the immune system and essential for the utilization of minerals. And raw fats such as raw butter and raw cream contains the enzyme lipase that burns it off so it is not stored as fat. Our modern processing of food has totally gone downhill in terms of how it behaves in our body and our health is paying the price.

Coconut oil is very saturated and *excellent* for bf'ing moms and the immune system. It increases the MCT's in your milk and hence the immune activity. It is anti fungal, anti bacterial and anti viral. It is also the most easily digestible oil and therefore is rarely stored as fat.

American women have the lowest DHA in their breastmilk. Interestingly enough, if you eat grass fed meat and dairy, their meat and milk products contain substantial amounts of omega 3s and DHA. And their fats contain CLA, a special type of fat that increases metabolism in humans.

Our health is greatly dependent on the food we eat and sadly, our grocery stores across the nation are filled with food that is seriously deficient in essential nutrients because of the way it is grown and produced. The way we've modernized our food production has greatly effected how our bodies have responded to this franken-food with degenerative diseases.

More about all this information, www.westonaprice.org

The Weston Price foundation is pro breastfeeding but has developed recipes for several homemade formulas because they are a nutritional foundation that responded to people's needs. Sally Fallon the president of WAPF nursed all her children but still had problems with low milk supply and was probably the reason for the modern day research on homemade formula recipes. It includes instructions to use a LactAid and tips for successful breastfeeding at bottom of page below references:
http://www.westonaprice.org/children/breastfeed.html

Weston A Price, DDS himself, as far as I know, never ever espoused formula in his research of the diets and history of thousands of native people. He constantly talked about galactogues (I think quinoa was a new one I learned from his research) and extended breastfeeding in his book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration".
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html

Winkipedia, like Quackwatch, shouldn't be thought of as the final answer on health and nutrition questions!!
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#80 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 05:27 PM
 
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DaryLLL, what is the current LLL position on supplementary DHA's?

Personally I am very dismayed that LLL doesn't strongly warn against trans fats/hydrogenated fats in the mother's diet. Because if you eat them, they appear on your breastmilk. Even the FDA has said there is no safe level of trans fat consumption. And research has shown significant cellular damage from them, because they are assimilated into the cells. Now what mama wants their babies bodies (and brains) to be built with trans fats! Even formula doesn't contain them!
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#81 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 05:36 PM
 
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And Caedmyn, sorry to sidetrack this discussion a bit but re: your original question ...

Nurse as long as you can. I weaned DS for health issues in us both when he was 26 months and I wish I didn't. BM is liquid gold and essential for the development of the immune system.

I think one year is giving a child the short stick, and two years should absolutely be the minimum. Nursing longer is essential if food allergies or other immune disorders are present. Good luck to you.

Nutritional stores do need rebuilding, especially vitamin A and minerals. From my research a 3 yr. spacing is much better.
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#82 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 05:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn
It makes sense if you stop and think about it--the mother is naturally the stronger party so it is God's way of making sure the one who is more likely to survive survives if only one can.
With the mention of God's way, you are already taking science out of the equation. If it's a religious belief, fine, no point for debate or research. If it is not, I would suggest you read the studies yourself rather than relying on the Weston-Price's interpretation and presentation of the data.
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#83 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 05:50 PM
 
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It is the most illogical thing I have ever read. Like I and DaryLLL pointed out, women suffer from hyperemisis, yet deliver full term, healthy babies.

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#84 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 06:21 PM
 
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I just wanted to say that the Weston Price site was put together by Sally Fallon who had trouble breastfeeding herself (and unfortunately has a bone to pick with LLL or someone). Many of Weston Price's findings were/ are very interesting re nutrition. I don't think he had anything to do with the articles in question.
Also Sally Fallon doesn't promote regular formula, she promotes making your own homemade formula which has many strange ingredients etc... Glad I can breastfeed!
Also I think it is great to promote good nutrition while breastfeeding (which the site does), because a lack of nutrition can definately take a toll on breastfeeding women. I'm pretty sure postpartum depression has been linked to vitamin deficiencies in many cases. So, those articles are pretty far off, but make the point that eating well, and eating plenty of fat, protein, and well prepared food will amplify the health of mother and child. I love the whole nourishing traditions concept- just think that Sally Fallon seems pretty biased and not very pro bf.
Sorry to continue the derailment of this thread.
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#85 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 06:24 PM
 
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Sorry JaneS, I missed your post. Much more articulate than mine.
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#86 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 08:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS
And research has shown significant cellular damage from them, because they are assimilated into the cells. Now what mama wants their babies bodies (and brains) to be built with trans fats! Even formula doesn't contain them!

I'm all for reducing/eliminating transfats as well as environmental contaminants that pollute our food, our breastmilk *and all animal fats* even grass fed beef and raw milk. And even what you call 'deficient' breastmilk is still "liquid gold" compared to formula. Even despite all the pollutants and weird things we eat.
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#87 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 08:58 PM
 
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Only had time to read the first and fifth pages of this thread so I'm sure I missed a lot in the middle but to respond to the OP -

I planned to nurse dd1 for 12 months. I did but then it just didn't seem like the right time to wean - she was teething and starting to walk and had a cold and we had a few weddings coming up (I liked knowing she'd be quiet during the ceremony if we were nursing). So we kept going. At 15 months I started thinking **I** was ready to stop. So we weaned over the next month, finishing when she was 16 months.

I don't know about the first site but I am all about blueribbonbaby. I followed Dr. Brewer's nutrition plan during my pregnancy and never felt better.

Sibling spacing is a very personal thing. We repeated the spacing between me and my younger sister (four years) with our dd1 and dd2, as it worked so well for us. Dd2 and dd3 are 2.75 years apart and that has been fine for them, harder for me. I have found two and three years old to be challenging ages to parent so choosing to TTC then was hard - I had my hands full already! With dd2, we just went for it as I knew I wanted that four year spacing but it was odd to TTC for a "spacing" instead of a true readiness.

I understand your feelings (as much as I've read on the first and fifth pages here) about not nursing while pregnant; I felt the same way. It won't be popular here on MDC but you are not the only one.
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#88 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 10:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kirsten

I understand your feelings (as much as I've read on the first and fifth pages here) about not nursing while pregnant; I felt the same way. It won't be popular here on MDC but you are not the only one.

Lots of people here have said nursing through pregnancy or tandem nursing is not for everyone. I know I have on several occasions. People are taking issue with her spreading blatantly incorrect info and possibly scaring other mamas into weaning whod on't want to wean.

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#89 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 11:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by the_lissa
Lots of people here have said nursing through pregnancy or tandem nursing is not for everyone. I know I have on several occasions. People are taking issue with her spreading blatantly incorrect info and possibly scaring other mamas into weaning whod on't want to wean.

Yep~ I have never nursed while pregnant. I have never tandem nursed. However, I know if I did, I would not be endangering either my nursling or my babe in utero.

After Joe was born (by emergency csection) I had SO much trouble eating. Some said it was from the anesthetic- literally nothing tasted good to me. For two weeks I ate canned peaches & drank apricot nectar, choking down the occasional scrambled eggs. I weighed about 100 pounds at that time. Joe lost weight in the hospital, like all babies do, but he was back up OVER his birth weight before we left the hospital. He gained weight so fast. He doubled his birth weight in a matter of weeks. My milk was perfect for him even though my body was not letting me eat much of anything.
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#90 of 111 Old 03-08-2006, 11:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS
Personally I am very dismayed that LLL doesn't strongly warn against trans fats/hydrogenated fats in the mother's diet. Because if you eat them, they appear on your breastmilk. Even the FDA has said there is no safe level of trans fat consumption. And research has shown significant cellular damage from them, because they are assimilated into the cells. Now what mama wants their babies bodies (and brains) to be built with trans fats! Even formula doesn't contain them!
LLL's philosophy on nutrition is "Good nutrition means eating a well-balanced and varied diet of foods in as close to their natural state as possible." Foods in their natural state do not contain trans fats, so their nutrition philosophy has always recommended reduction of trans fats before it was the latest thing to eliminate from the American diet.

There is one formula that processes their proteins by hydrogenation supposedly to make it 'easier to digest.' So I wonder if the trans fat label will come up with anything there when the requirements to add it to the nutrition label take effect? Until then we don't really know which formulas contain trans fats. The 'fat' in formula comes from high fructose corn syrup and that's not good, trans fat or no.
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