Friend won't even TRY bfing -- I'm so mad at her - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 19 Old 02-18-2003, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
Richie'sMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My friend from high school is preg. w/ twins and is due any second and, despite my pleas, won't even consider breastfeeding. She says, My mom didn't bf me and I'm fine.... (actually she has allergies, all sorts of stomach problems, and was anorexic). I don't want to offend her, but I'm thinking of her babies and of the wonderful experiences I've had bfing. Anyone experience something similar?
Richie'sMama is offline  
#2 of 19 Old 02-18-2003, 02:46 PM
 
tabitha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: berkeley, ca
Posts: 2,412
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
oh, dear, all the time. i am sorry you have to be the only one that cares about those baby twins. i would breastfeed them for that mamma if i could.

when this happens to me its sad but i try and try to be a good influence, and when its obvious the mamma doesn't care i just have to step back and let someone else be her friend. that's just me, but i don't think its fair to anyone involved to pretend not to think she's neglecting her babies.

doesn't she see that just because my father beat me, and i'm fine, doesn't mean i should do it to my baby? what about the health benefits for HER? maybe a self centered mamma would bf for that?? what about how easy bf is compared to making double the ABM in the middle of the night?

tabitha

Hi, I'm Tabitha. I'm a homeschooling mother of four: ds (11) dd (9) ds (7) ds (5) And I'm expecting a fifth in 2014! Find me at http://www.omelay.blogspot.com
tabitha is offline  
#3 of 19 Old 02-18-2003, 02:48 PM
 
*~*SewHappyNow*~*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 2,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Have you shown her any information about all the benefits of breast feeding? health, money, higher IQ, more convienent, etc... ?

She sounds like she's more interested in being shown the practical benefits "I wasn't breastfed, I turned out fine" rather than the "expirience of it".

I do understand the frustration. I do not see how anyone could make that decision after seeing all the evidence that supports breastfeeding. And to say your reasons are simply 'I'm fine, I don't see the benefit' or, like my one friend said 'I could never do that!' just seems like poor decision making to me.

Karen Mommy of McKenna 2003 & Alysson 2004 homebirth.jpg Expecting stork-girl.gif an early Christmas Present
*~*SewHappyNow*~* is offline  
#4 of 19 Old 02-18-2003, 03:35 PM
 
SagMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,979
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I once spoke with an adoptive mom and mentioned that it was possible that she could breastfeed her coming baby. She was not aware of this but said, quite sternly, "I have absolutely NO interest in doing that."

That ended that conversation.

I admit, I was disappointed, but my feeling is this: You will find some moms who are on the fence about breastfeeding, or who WANT to nurse but because of a lack of support or misinformation, they aren't sure if they can. THOSE are the moms who you have a chance to assist. Your personal stories, your information, your support, could lead to a wonderful nursing relationship between mom and babe.

Then...there are others...who, for whatever reason, are completely unreachable, their minds are made up, they won't consider it, case closed. I don't understand this, and it makes me sad, in part because I had/have such a wonderful nursing relationship with my own children and I see them as not knowing what they're missing, but--
you can't MAKE someone do something that they don't want to do.


Single Mom to 3 (12, 17 & 21)  luxlove.gif and dog2.gif.

SagMom is offline  
#5 of 19 Old 02-18-2003, 03:53 PM
 
Arduinna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 32,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
sometimes the "practical" reasons will convince someone. The money saved from not buying formula, the convienance of not running out of formula. Always ready to serve, no warming, mixing, washing bottles.

It is frustrating. And I have chosen not to continue friendships with people who very different parenting choices. Not saying you should do that though.
Arduinna is offline  
#6 of 19 Old 02-18-2003, 04:54 PM
 
ebethmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: State of Grace
Posts: 3,710
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know that we can't save every baby from formula. But I still feel the need to try! Sometimes it just feels like slamming your head into a brick wall, though.

I know that I positively influenced one mother at our church. We only had two brief conversations before the birth of her first child. She was VERY ambivelant about BFing. She didn't nurse him for the first 5 days, but then changed her mind. I had given her a stack of books while she was still in the hospital. She did nurse her baby for 4-5 weeks before she gave in to formula. But she did try!! And now she says that she misses nursing, and will definitely BF the next baby.

Not a total success story, but a good start anyway.
ebethmom is offline  
#7 of 19 Old 02-18-2003, 05:09 PM
 
Starfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 355
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It is hard to convince women to bf. I had a friend who finnaly, after all the research i gave her, nursed her first for 9 months!

After her sencond, she said he was just to hungry for her to nurse. I forgot to give her the thing on supply and demand

But some of the things i told her that chandged her mind about her little dd, was that bf babies have higher IQ's, do not get sick as often if at all (less trips to the er), And the money. Oh she liked that she had more money to spend if she did not bottle feed. (But I think with ds she found WIC)

Oh and that bf babies are more social, and do not have attachment problems later in life. There are so many good things about bf. I would also send her things in the mail, so then it did not seem like it was just me influencing her. Her church was so mad at her for bfing. I was supprise, she got kicked out of there and her husban (now ex) was the preacher! .
So just print out info, and mail it to her if she is not listening dirrectly to you.
Starfire is offline  
#8 of 19 Old 02-18-2003, 05:15 PM
 
*~*SewHappyNow*~*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 2,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Her church was so mad at her for bfing
what sort of church was this???

I guess we live in some kind of dark ages.. I shouldn't be suprised I guess, but I am. I understand people have personal hang ups about boobs and breastfeeding and the like, but for a church to collectively agree that breastfeeding is 'bad'....

Karen Mommy of McKenna 2003 & Alysson 2004 homebirth.jpg Expecting stork-girl.gif an early Christmas Present
*~*SewHappyNow*~* is offline  
#9 of 19 Old 02-18-2003, 05:17 PM
 
HollyBearsMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: nomans land
Posts: 6,197
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by tabitha
oh, dear, all the time. i am sorry you have to be the only one that cares about those baby twins. i would breastfeed them for that mamma if i could.

when this happens to me its sad but i try and try to be a good influence, and when its obvious the mamma doesn't care i just have to step back and let someone else be her friend. that's just me, but i don't think its fair to anyone involved to pretend not to think she's neglecting her babies.

doesn't she see that just because my father beat me, and i'm fine, doesn't mean i should do it to my baby? what about the health benefits for HER? maybe a self centered mamma would bf for that?? what about how easy bf is compared to making double the ABM in the middle of the night?

tabitha
I am sorry but I was truly offended by your statements. This mother "doesn't care" about her babies? She is "self centered"? She is "neglecting" her babies? How do you know that? Just because she chooses to FF? I work with a few women who unfortunatly didn't even try BFing no matter how much I encouraged them, but I still see them as wonderful mothers who truly love and care for their children. It is evidenced in everything else they do. Yes breast milk is best and I truly believe that every child should be breast fed but to go on and say those things? I think that is a little too harsh. And for you to compare FFing to childhood abuse?? Wow, that is also too severe.

I believe the OP was actually asking if anyone else ran into this. Not asking for anyones opions on her firend as as a mother. As I stated above I have dealt with it. Instead of throwing up my hands, walking away and calling these women horrible mothers I tried instead to encourage other ways of bonding (babywearing, co-sleeping, etc). Remember it does "take a village" to use and oft quoted verse. Why not try to offer support instead?

The world is too judgemental as it is.

Pardon me while I puke.gif

HollyBearsMom is offline  
#10 of 19 Old 02-18-2003, 05:29 PM
 
MelMel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Land of the Cleves
Posts: 1,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
a friend was watching me bf dd, and looking kinda embarrassed or 'icked' and i laughed and asked her what her problem was...she asked what it felt like, and i said at first (first few weeks) it hurt a bit, but now it doesnt feel like anything. she isnt the 'nurturing' type, so i knew saying it that way would get through to her more than the 'bonding' stuff. she said it must be interesting to not have to go mix formula and to be able to shut her up right away when she cried. hahaha. hey, she's being honest. she took care of her formula fed neices, so must of hated listening to baby cry while she tried to mix and heat it...

i told her it was cool to be able to feed her wherever and whenever i had too, to not rely on a company or the store to feed my kid. she looked like her brain was ticking away (yeah!)

what I tell unsupportive people, like my mom, is that if something happens, and we are stranded with no food or water, dont look to this 'feedbag' for sustanance. (yes, my own mother calls me a 'feedback' and says it with disgust)

:sinister :sinister :sinister :sinister
MelMel is offline  
#11 of 19 Old 02-18-2003, 05:48 PM
 
Starfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 355
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by tabitha

doesn't she see that just because my father beat me, and i'm fine, doesn't mean i should do it to my baby? what about the health benefits for HER? maybe a self centered mamma would bf for that?? what about how easy bf is compared to making double the ABM in the middle of the night?

tabitha
I am glad that you stated this about the beatings. I actully know moms who bf, but who do hit there kids because that is what was done to them.

I can never figure out how to double quote,
but what HollyBearsMom said about it not being right what you said. I think you made a good point. Some moms will listen if you compare to another drastic thing. And if you will not even look at the other options, it can be looked at as neglect. Just like to mom who hits her kids instead of finding out why they are crying in the first place. That in some states is neglect and she can have her kids taken away. But I bet she never looked at it because no one pointed out the benefits of not hitting.

the only thing i would stress about not Breast Feeding, is if the mom is a drinker. No one can say how much is passed through the breast milk. But no amount is good for an infant. And then she should FF.
Starfire is offline  
#12 of 19 Old 02-19-2003, 12:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
Richie'sMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for such wonderful, thoughtful responses.

Here's the other half of the story:

When I found out she was preg. with twins, I sent her every book on BFing twins, pamphlets from LLL, and a subscription to Mothering. I also talked to her regularly and privately begged the husband to encourage her to try bfing in the hospital. "At least let those babies get the colostrum," I pleaded.

No luck.

Oh yes -- she's a social worker who runs an expectant mother support group!
Richie'sMama is offline  
#13 of 19 Old 02-19-2003, 12:13 AM
 
Sustainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 10,709
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Good article:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8.../language.html

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

Sustainer is offline  
#14 of 19 Old 02-20-2003, 01:35 PM
 
tabitha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: berkeley, ca
Posts: 2,412
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by HollyBearsMom
I am sorry but I was truly offended by your statements. This mother "doesn't care" about her babies? She is "self centered"? She is "neglecting" her babies? How do you know that? Just because she chooses to FF? I work with a few women who unfortunatly didn't even try BFing no matter how much I encouraged them, but I still see them as wonderful mothers who truly love and care for their children. It is evidenced in everything else they do. Yes breast milk is best and I truly believe that every child should be breast fed but to go on and say those things? I think that is a little too harsh. And for you to compare FFing to childhood abuse?? Wow, that is also too severe.
HollyBearsMom, while this sort of discussion is probably not what the OP wanted either, you don't know the mamma and twins in question any better than i do. i do actually believe that people who care about their babies at least try to give them the best, whether its breastmilk or some other facet of parenting.

I did not compare using ABM to child abuse. i took an example from my own childhood, which was abusive. i could just as easily have said, just because my parents raised me on junk food and i'm ok... you get the point. the only problem is that i was raised on an organic farm, so such an example wasn't readily available.

I wish that the attitude towards ABM was different, and that it was considered by the majority to be neglectful to deny your baby their birthright (breastmilk, and other things...) when you could have given it to them.


Quote:
Originally posted by HollyBearsMom

I believe the OP was actually asking if anyone else ran into this. Not asking for anyones opions on her firend as as a mother. As I stated above I have dealt with it. Instead of throwing up my hands, walking away and calling these women horrible mothers I tried instead to encourage other ways of bonding (babywearing, co-sleeping, etc). Remember it does "take a village" to use and oft quoted verse. Why not try to offer support instead?

The world is too judgemental as it is.
i didn't call anyone a "horrible mother", i did say i try to exert good influence, and i do. while i am familiar with the "it takes a village" concept, i personally believe that it doesn't work when most of the people aren't willing to give their babies their best. i do try to offer support, but when its obvious that i am only hurting myself by trying, i step aside. you don't have to agree or disagree, that's just what i do. i am emotionally pulverized by the simple thought of that mamma and her twin babies.

What is choosing to use ABM without even trying to BF, if it is not self centered?

tabitha

ne·glect __
tr.v. ne·glect·ed, ne·glect·ing, ne·glects

1.To pay little or no attention to; fail to heed; disregard: neglected their warnings.
2.To fail to care for or attend to properly: neglects her appearance.
3.To fail to do or carry out, as through carelessness or oversight: neglected to return the call.

Hi, I'm Tabitha. I'm a homeschooling mother of four: ds (11) dd (9) ds (7) ds (5) And I'm expecting a fifth in 2014! Find me at http://www.omelay.blogspot.com
tabitha is offline  
#15 of 19 Old 02-20-2003, 02:54 PM
 
Quirky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 12,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Starfire

the only thing i would stress about not Breast Feeding, is if the mom is a drinker. No one can say how much is passed through the breast milk. But no amount is good for an infant. And then she should FF.
This is actually not true. If you read Dr. Jack Newman's book The Ultimate Breastfeeding Book of Answers, he dispels a lot of myths about "reasons" to stop breastfeeding, and shows that the benefits of breastfeeding outweigh the harms for moderate drinking, even moderate to heavy drinking. The baby is more at risk from the mother if she's drunk because of her mental and physical impairment than from the alcohol in her breastmilk.

But I agree with Starfire and with Tabitha that refusing to breastfeed is tantamount to neglect. We'd all agree that not using carseats is neglectful, and that it improperly puts the baby at a much greater risk of harm, and that parents who have access to carseats but refuse to use them are acting wrongly.

Yet refusing to breastfeed (when the mother is capable, I'm not slamming those who can't for physical reasons or deep-seated emotional reasons like childhood sexual abuse) demonstrably puts the child at greater risk for serious illnesses, both in childhood and adulthood, that can kill you. Diabetes, cancer, SIDS, RSV, obesity, certain types of heart disease, the list goes on and on. 4 to 7 children out of 1000 will die *because* they weren't breastfed.

Why is it OK to guilt parents out - even punish them by law - for failure to use a carseat, but not for refusing to breastfeed? I agree that you can't force anyone to breastfeed if they're unwilling, but I still think it's morally wrong to refuse to breastfeed.

/soapbox off/

Richie's Mama, I think it's great that you made such an effort to help your friend. Sounds like she's just close-minded. Those poor babies!

Come visit the NEW QuirkyBaby website -- earn QB Bucks rewards points for purchases, reviews, referrals, and more! Free US shipping on great brands of baby slings and carriers and FREE BabyLegs or babywearing mirror on orders of $100+. Take the QB Quiz for personalized advice!

Quirky is offline  
#16 of 19 Old 02-21-2003, 06:04 AM
 
Court's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: on cloud 9
Posts: 771
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just wanted to say: Devrock - That was a great article, thanks for posting that. Just when I thought I couldn't learn anything new about breastfeeding...

Mom to two boys, 7 and 10.  Expecting 3rd boy any day now with DH (his first).

Court is offline  
#17 of 19 Old 02-21-2003, 01:38 PM
 
Sustainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 10,709
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah, the first time I read that, it completely blew my mind. It totally turned me around in the way I approach the subject.

yer welcome : )

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

Sustainer is offline  
#18 of 19 Old 02-21-2003, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
Richie'sMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Why is it OK to guilt parents out - even punish them by law - for failure to use a carseat, but not for refusing to breastfeed?

Because there's no money in breastfeeding!
Richie'sMama is offline  
#19 of 19 Old 02-22-2003, 01:24 PM
 
Sustainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 10,709
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sure there is. The government saves money when it doesn't have to buy formula for poor women. But you can't legally mandate breastfeeding because you can't force women to do something with their bodies.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

Sustainer is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off