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Old 07-15-2004, 07:24 PM
 
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If anything this will help you with custody. All you need to do is post a request for help collecting citations for the positive aspects of EB and have your lawyer give these to the judge.

If there is a LLL near you perhaps a leader or lactation specialist who is knowledgeable and supportive of EB can testify if required.

Co-sleeping is not that unusual and many who say they didn't are now admitting to it since it isn't so taboo. Even my mom finally admitted that my sister still climbed in bed with them when she was 3 and they just snuggled her in with them. That was in 1965!

I am sorry about the nasty divorce and hope it gets better for you very soon. You and your son are in the right place for support. Can I ask what state you live in?
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Old 07-15-2004, 07:49 PM
 
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I love New Hampshire!
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Old 07-15-2004, 07:57 PM
 
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If the judge isn't into sustained breastfeeding, he might very well create a problem for her. My aunt went through an ugly divorce, and the judge ordered her to stop co-sleeping.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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Old 07-16-2004, 01:42 PM
 
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Jennifer, so sorry that you and your son have to go thru this awful time. I'm glad you are still nursing your son.
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Old 07-17-2004, 12:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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That's so strange to me that someone can use things like breastfeeding and cosleeping as negative leverage against a mother. Those are positive things that should sway anyone in favor of a mother. It shows how much she cares and is in touch with her child. I feel sorry for anyone who can turn that into a negative, especially a father if he truly cares about his child. How sad.

Jennifer, I would definitely get in touch with LLL. http://www.lalecheleague.org They seem to be up on the latest legal info and I bet they could give you some valuable help. Good luck.
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Old 08-13-2004, 05:18 AM
 
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Bump!

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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Old 08-13-2004, 12:16 PM
 
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ok, I have a situation that I'd like to share, which really disturbed me.

Yesterday I was out with a Mama friend and her ds, same age as my ds (nearly 2.5yrs) and still breastfeeding.

Well, my ds took a little tumble on some stairs (he's ok) but it scared him and of course he wanted to nurse. When he was crying the other ds came over to see if he was all right, and then walked away. When my ds stopped crying and decided to nurse (his biggest source of comfort! he says "nurse makes me feel better") he wanted the other ds to see that he was nursing. He said, "nurse and [name] watch me nurse" so I related that message to the Mama and her child. This was my ds' way of telling them that he was feeling better. But the other Mama looked shocked and said "that is totally inappropriate" and whisked her ds away.

This really surprised me. Well, I wanted to go home (I was hungry) but ds wanted to go with the other mama, her ds, and a third mama and ds to the playground, so we did. After 1/2 hour we were getting ready to go, and ds wanted to nurse for a minute before getting into his stroller. Well, my mama friend kept her distance from us with her ds, but he still decided to come see what we were doing, and was all smiles and walked right up to us to watch ds nurse. And why not??? I saw nothing wrong with it. (and in no way did I try to lure him over) I smiled at him and said hi. Well this really upset the other mama, who was apparently trying to tell her ds that he couldn't nurse until they got home.

A couple of hours later she sent the most vicious email to me with all sorts of accusations about how I was trying to undermine her and be controlling etc. etc. and that I was acting in the most inappropriate way, etc. etc. She was also upset about something that happened a couple of days earlier - my ds used a public potty for the first time in his life, and we were so excited that we shared the news with them. Well, to her this was also completely inappropriate. In her email she was saying that I was oozing with anxiety about potty training and trying to transfer it to her son. All sorts of other stuff was said. I was totally shocked!

She is the one who generally pursues my company more than I hers. I've considered her a good friend since my son was born, when we met. Now I don't think we can be friends anymore!
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Old 08-13-2004, 02:25 PM
 
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AdrianneWe, what a sad and ugly experience. This other mama obviously has some hang-ups she is trying to transfer to you.
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Old 08-13-2004, 03:09 PM
 
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We only nurse at home but I think it's because ds, just 4, doesn't think about it in public. I would be a bit anxious if he asked and we were out of the county. He is a very big 4 yr old - looks 6. Santa Cruz is fairly receptive. I was so thrilled to see a mom nursing her 2? yr old dd sitting down on the floor at Target last night.

It sounds like she just does things differently from you and hasn't developed the confidence to respond well yet. My first reaction is to react and blast back but then thankfully I can backspace or delete until I reach the place of inconditional love to try to understand her needs. This can be so HARD to do.

I'm sure you'll find the right words to respond, if you even want to, to her mail. Sometimes emails and posts bite us later! I like the phone for this stuff because it's closer but still safer than face to face. I wonder what would happen if you did nothing...
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Old 08-13-2004, 03:28 PM
 
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AdrianneWe: I am so sorry that you experienced a situation that felt confusing and unsupportive. It sounds like you feel that the choices you made were neutral at worst and that you felt your choices were positive, so you were surprised and confused by your friend's reaction. It also sounds like you had anticipated support from her and are saddened by the angry response you received instead. All told, I hear you saying that you are disappointed because you thought that you had a certain kind of friend in this person and her recent behavior has been inconsistent with your expectations and needs. It sounds like you would like to approach her to find out what is really going on behind her anger but that her response was so unexpected and hurtful that you are not sure that you feel you can trust her to engage in a nourishing relationship going forward.

For me, it is deeply saddening to experience a negative reaction or criticism of choices that I make in my mothering that are 100% about giving to my son (like nursing him until he weans himself). It is difficult for me to get past my own pain to see the pain behind the other person's angry response. When it is a friend who is unsupportive, it is even more painful.

Sending support and positive thoughts your way. I'm really sorry that you are having to deal with this. I hope that working through it proves to be a process of expanding and moving forward for you, if not for your friendship.
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Old 08-13-2004, 04:27 PM
 
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thanks guys

I did respond to her email. Ironically, she said in her email that it was not the best way to communicate, but that was the method she chose. She could have picked up the phone, but maybe she felt she could communicate better in writing (I sometimes feel this way) although her message to me was very mean and angry, with a lot of all-cap words (yelling).

Anyway, I responded as evenly as I could, without calling names or making judgements, just explaining my position.

Her response to my second email was even more viscious, saying things like "I feel so sorry for your ds in how you mother him" and that he seems like such a sad boy, and that I am totally selfish and controlling and manipulating and pushy, and that her ds doesn't like playing with us for very long bc I ooze negative energy.

Hey, she is the one who pursues our friendship more than I do!

My response to her second email was basically "if that's the way you feel, why do we get together?"

I haven't heard from her since yesterday's last email from me.

My dh thinks she is being 1) passive aggressive 2) projecting herself on me and 3) not worth the trouble; I have many other friends.

Here is a new twist: I got a phone call from a mutual friend who said she got a blind-copy of the email!!! That made me feel even worse! I mean, after the whole playground incident, I wanted to talk to her about it even before she emailed me, but I never would have considered dragging mutual friends into the conversation!!!

As for breastfeeding in public or not, I never make any judgements on anyone's decision to be open or modest or closeted or whatever about it (but I am known to encourage Mama's to not worry about bfing in public ) I met her at LLL and she and our mutual friends are pretty well attached parents who all breastfed and so on, and so of all people to hold such major disdain in my uninhibited approach to public breastfeeding she is one who would shock me more than others.
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Old 08-13-2004, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Adrianne

She sounds kinda twisted and confusing to me . She breastfeeds her ds but doesn't think you should (in public, in private, what's the difference, it's still breastfeeding), and she is threatened by her ds seeing your ds nurse (even though he nurses too, albeit in private) . She is offended by your ds using the potty and you sharing your excitement with her . She sends you a negative "inappropriate" email but then says that you are too negative and inappropriate to hang around for very long ....but she initiates getting together. And then she forwards these emails to your friends:.

Who needs enemies.... She doesn't sound like a friend.

I had a "friend" that did something like that to me a few years ago. It was after a playdate (at my house) where she was super rude to me and dd. She sent me nasty emails, but I made the mistake of emailing nasty stuff back. She emailed one of my friends pleading her to not be friends with me. Then she moved back to Canada. I don't miss our friendship but I do regret joining in the ugliness when I should have just sat on it and let it cool.

That's so sad that you are having to take the brunt of her insecurities. Too bad she can't just relax and enjoy motherhood. Good thing your real friends are sticking up for you (by telling you what she did, etc.). Stay positive, it's not your problem. If she's a real friend she'll realize what she's done sooner or later and see that her insecurities got the best of her.

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Old 08-13-2004, 07:05 PM
 
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What do your parenting decisions have to do with her???



It is a shock when someone you thought of as a friend suddenly turns on you, hurts too.

"What will you do once you know?"
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Old 08-13-2004, 07:07 PM
 
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I hope you all weather this thing. We've been lucky in our mommy group and we still get together every month or so. I am not really talking to one of them because she and her dh bailed on my HMO (he was our PCP) without telling us and then billed us for a visit by dh and never really just told us. They sort of ignored us... more strangeness with her than this so...

We can only be ourselves but it helps to know when we are supported by our friends!
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Old 08-13-2004, 08:42 PM
 
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Not that it really matters, but I wonder if it was the NIP itself or the situation of her wanting her ds to wait and breastfeed at home and you breastfeeding your ds in front of her ds and her ds being jealous. This normally wouldn't occur to me, except that it reminded me of an ugly scene I recently had with my SIL over the fact that she doesn't let her kids have juice with their meals, and I do let my dd have juice with her meal, and they were all sitting at the same table, and my dd got juice and they didn't, and they got jealous and thought they should get juice if she did and it wasn't fair, and she basically accused me of undermining and sabotaging her.

Any way, if I received emails like the ones you described, I don't think I would want to have contact with the person any more.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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Old 08-13-2004, 09:41 PM
 
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Yeah, I think my friendship with her is officially over, but it will be awkward when we get together with mutual friends.

I think the biggest issue here was my "inappropriate behavior" in her eyes. It seems to me that what set her off was when my ds wanted her ds to know and observe that he was breastfeeding (his way of feeling better after boo boos). And the next offense (after the potty incident) was her feeling that I was undermining her parenting by "distracting" her ds.

So here is my question, Mamas: do you allow/invite/encourage other children/people to witness your dc bfing? I never thought about it before. But yesterday, when ds said he wanted the other boy to know he was nursing, I didn't see anything wrong with that. Generally, we just nurse whenever ds wants/needs to (unless it's just not possible). He has always nursed in front of other children - children who either were never breastfed, or are breastfeeding, or are weaned from breastfeeding. No other mother has ever complained to me about it.
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Old 08-13-2004, 10:16 PM
 
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I've never had that happen that DD, or DS back in the day, said anything about wanting some other kid to see or know they were nursing. When DD was a baby, I nursed her wherever whenever and I did have a 3? year old child of a friend ask "Why is she eating you?" Her mother, who had nursed her, answered her question quite nicely.

"What will you do once you know?"
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Old 08-13-2004, 10:53 PM
 
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It sounds like you're wondering whether you really were out of line or whether your son's wish to share his joy in nursing with his playmate might really be inappropriate. I personally do not think so, but I'm pretty freaking liberal (I look 'normal,' but ummm, I'm not like my neighbors!).

My son hasn't wanted others to watch him nursing, but other kids have watched us nursing and he's fine with it, and he's been interested to see his playmates nursing when they do. Nursing is a really big deal to my son -- it's a huge bonding thing for him -- so this doesn't really surprise me. I also nurse in public without much worry (except for, say, physical/safety limitations).

It really sounds to me like your friend has some deep issues that were simply triggered by your choices. As I said in my previous post, it sounds to me like she is experiencing pain that is coming out sideways (as I like to put it) at you. If you're interested in salvaging the friendship, you might try responding to her with empathy or active listening to see if she lets the pain out for viewing so that you can get down to the deeper issue here for the benefit of you, your friend, your kids, and your mutual friends (and their kids).

Good luck!
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Old 08-13-2004, 11:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneWe
My dh thinks she is being 1) passive aggressive 2) projecting herself on me and 3) not worth the trouble; I have many other friends.
I couldn't agree more.

I'm sorry you had to deal with this Adrianne

You've already received great advice. I just wanted to echo that I, personally, would end the friendship and to give you another . That situation would've really upset me.


__________________________________________________ ____

Also, just wanted to say everyone. I've been gone a lot and have missed you all. My older nursling is pushing 3 1/2 and loves her Mai Mai's more than ever and my little nursling will be a year old in one week! I can't believe it.

Oh, and WHERE is Mom4tot??
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Old 08-14-2004, 12:24 AM
 
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Thank you so much, Mamas, for all of your great advice and responses. I didn't expect my post to get so much attention! I appreciate it.

This is the very first time my ds has ever asked for anyone to see him nurse.
I'm sure that his intention was to communicate that he was feeling better, not that he wanted someone to inspect his latch or anything :LOL (can I joke about this when it was such an awful experience!!!)
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Old 08-14-2004, 12:30 AM
 
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But seriously, if I can say one more thing...

It's hard enough to maintain my integrity as a nursing mother to a (very large) toddler, let alone to receive disdainful remarks from a good friend who is also breastfeeding a same-age toddler.

Now I find myself reflecting on all the other times ds nursed in front of other kids. For instance, a friend's dd who is 6 months older but only nursed until 12 months often sees ds nursing when we get together. She comes up close, peers at him, and asks "what's he doing?" and both I and her mother tell her about it. No big deal.

Same thing with another friend who has a ds the same age but only nursed 15 months...
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Old 08-14-2004, 01:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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MamaAllNatural, I think Joan is on vacation.....hopefully she'll be back with us soon.
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Old 08-16-2004, 02:05 PM
 
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Hi everyone!

I had an interesting situation happen this past month I thought I would share, get some feedback on etc.

My close friend weaned her boy directly after his 2 year birthday. My dd is almost three and we (my friend and I) got on the topic of weaning. I said I was going to follow dd's cues with regards to that and wean at a slow pace.

She indicated to me that I needed to start talking to dd about this process and get it underway. I really respect this woman but felt that her words of advice were really misplaced.

I did however bring the concept to dd a few times just to see her reaction. I said that everything comes to an end and that so does booby. That one day she would not have booby any more. She over the course of about 5 days became defiant and starting running away from me in public and not listening. She also began to nurse nonstop. It was incredible. So while we were out in the bush this past week, I came to realize that her new found defience was related to this conversation I had with her. So I had another indicating that we will figure out the booby together at our own pace. Her happy peaceful mood and agreeable nature came back almost immediately. Now she is back to nursing about 4 -5 times a day like the way it was before.

I just needed to come back here and commisserate with my like minded mamas. I can see that I am in different territory IRL now. I assume more and more woman will come out of the woodwork (STS) to give me their two cents on how I am damaging dd by extended BFing. Some have even said I am Bfing her for my own selfish needs.

Anyhow, nice to see this thread alive again!
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Old 08-16-2004, 03:02 PM
 
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Some have even said I am Bfing her for my own selfish needs
: i don't like it when people resort to that comment!

Keep on doing what is best for your dd, mountainmom!!
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Old 08-16-2004, 03:49 PM
 
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Wow Mountain Mom, sorry this happened to you.
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Old 08-16-2004, 04:46 PM
 
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That's how it was for us with toilet training! Ds said he would NEVER wear pull-ups, use the toilet or underwear if I pressed him to move things along before he was ready. He used the big throne with insert for the first time 2 nights ago (2 am!) and now LOVES pull-ups.

With nursing and toilet training I have left it up to him and I am so happy this way. But, this place is THE place for support for me with EBF. DH is very supportive, family says nothing, HMO doc said wean wean wean so I can finally kick thrush. The world has no clue because we only nurse at sleep time or in bed.

My closest mommy friend is complaining right now because her 14 mo old dd doesn't NEED to nurse, she just wants to (duh!) and it's "bugging" my friend. I just smile and she says, "I know this is no big deal for you but we're just different." Very different on many fronts so we come here!

I never thought I'd be nursing a 4 year old boy who loves construction, cheetahs, trains AND "Mommy milk!"
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Old 08-16-2004, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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mountain mom, Your post really struck a flash down memory lane with me. I've been in that position before too. Except it was dh's advice that influenced me to bring it up with dd. This happened when she was around 2, then around 3, then again at 6....all those times I went through a period of panick (questioning myself and dd's instincts) and felt very alone. DH just didn't know any better, and we didn't know anyone IRL who breastfed as long as we were, so I think it really scared him.

Dd always reacted with crying and sadness. Nursing meant so much to her that it scared her to think of having it taken away by the very person whom she trusted most in the World. And it hurt me so much to see her so sad. This period of my uncertainty never lasted more than a few days....I still nursed her but talked to her about weaning before nursing, which would make her nurse more and would make me worry more (oh the troubles other's advice can bring, huh). Those were very long painful days. As soon as I'd get my sense back, everything was okay again. I wish I had learned my lesson the first time, and I wish I had the support of MDC then (I did at 6, which helped tremendously), I'm just glad I never totally gave in. I'm so glad we ultimately continued until she was ready.

I think that we all go through stuff like this, where we take in the advice of others whom we respect so much, we lose ourselves for a while, and in turn the advice really messes us up (at least for a while).
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Old 08-16-2004, 06:34 PM
 
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Mountain Mama, I am sorry that your friend unloaded unsolicited advice on you that ended up interfering (briefly, fortunately) with your life and your daughter's. It's great that you recognized its impact, though, and addressed the situation with your daughter. I hope you feel proud of yourself after the withering experience!

I find unsolicited advice to be so difficult, especially in parenting! I'm sometimes tempted to offer it, but I try to do so only if the other person asks. I might offer my own experience, unsolicited, but that is totally different from telling somebody what they should do.

In mothering, the only decisions I've ever really regretted deeply are those I made against my own instinct. I've only done it a few times, because I recognized how awful it felt and why. Anyway, I agree, Mother Sunshine, those are the worst.

I'll tell ya', I'm fortunate to live in a very liberal part of the US, but even here, I anticipate discomfort before long. Amazingly, my relatives in the Midwest are acting (at least to our faces) totally cool about it, but they're sure that it's best for me to wean my son now that I'm pregnant. Another opportunity to educate! Incidentally, I was SO proud of my mom, who responded immediately (I wasn't there) by saying I had no plans to wean and she was sure I'd discussed it with my doctors and that there was no problem with nursing while pregnant. Gotta love having a supportive family.
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Old 08-17-2004, 06:28 PM
 
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Mountain Mom, I had a similar thing happen with my 3 year old dd right after dd2 was born. My own mother, who has always supported BFing, told her that BFing was just for the new baby and that she was too big for it--on the day the baby was born! Talk about instant sibling rivalry. My mom knew I was planning to tandem nurse, and even watched me nurse both girls together in my bed 30 min after giving birth! While I was recovering from labor and my mom was watching dd and told her that without me knowing it. DD started acting so strange and screaming every time I nursed the baby. Finally dd told me what grandma said and I was able to reassure her that BFing was still for her. She has since told me she plans to nurse until she has her own babies. If that happens I think I might be tempted to listen to ANY advice!!

Angie, mama to Anna '01, Mia '04, and Leif '08 and angel1.gif '03  angel1.gif'07 angel1.gif'12.Expecting someone new in 7/13! pos.gif

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Old 08-17-2004, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Location: Big Island
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angierae
My own mother, who has always supported BFing, told her that BFing was just for the new baby and that she was too big for it--on the day the baby was born!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Angierae
She has since told me she plans to nurse until she has her own babies.
:LOL How cute!

BTW Angierae
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