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mamamoo's Avatar mamamoo 02:58 AM 11-22-2006
you guys are so sweet.

I love all the nursing pics.

jillmamma's Avatar jillmamma 11:45 AM 11-22-2006
Great pics! Makes me realize that I actually don't have any of my two nursing together...just separately. I need to take some!
Mama2ABCD's Avatar Mama2ABCD 01:17 PM 11-23-2006
these are beautiful pictures, mama's! thanks for sharing. beautiful mama's nursing beautiful babies.
ladybugchild77's Avatar ladybugchild77 10:54 AM 11-24-2006
OK...tandeming is not going well at the moment and I need some help from you wise Mamas!!! Here are my "issues":

- Every time I sit down to nurse the baby I hear, "Nurse too! Nurse too!" from my toddler. I wouldn't mind nursing them at the same time but I cannot find a position that is comfy for all of us. Then dd#1 gets extremely upset and throws a huge tantrum...If I do nurse them together she just wants to pop on and off and look at thenew baby - cute but it makes me sore...

- Dd#2 fusses like she is not getting enough milk if I let the toddler nurse before her. I know she is though since she spits up almost every time after eating...She will search between the breasts and go back and forth...If I let the toddler nurse after the new one however then I get teeth marks on my breast since she is not finsing as much milk...

- Honestly, I am just not sure if I am cut out to tandem. I know that dd#1 is not ready to wean (she is only 20 mo and nursed through my pregnancy although she wasn't getting much) I find myself putting more and more limits on her nursing and i know it is upsetting to us both. There are other factors coming into play here - without overwhelming all of you on my drama - dh asked for a divorce yesterday and he works 12 hour days so by the time he does come home I am exhausted and touched out so the last thing in the world I want to do is nurse anyone - much less a fussy newborn and screaming toddler at the same time...sigh...thanks, Mamas!!! Help me out, please!
Mama2ABCD's Avatar Mama2ABCD 02:18 PM 11-24-2006
so sorry Stephanie that your dh announced this horrible thing to you with such horrible timing.

This is a hard time for you anyways. You are recovering from a pregnancy and birth, your adjusting to a newborn, and your toddler is adjusting. the whole family is adjusting.

your toddler really needs you right now whether you nurse her or not. i would try to work on her popping on and off so that you can nurse them together. i've gone through that with mine, i always tell them "if your on stay on, but if you pop off then stay off". they'll get it.

with tandeming i switch sides every feeding, not during. some mom's choose to designate a side and that's good too. whatever works.

don't forget to drink your water and eat some meals. it's so easy to push your basic needs aside when caring for others.

i wish you dh was a bit more supportive right now instead of being selfish. he and you must know it's not always going to be this intense!
mamamoo's Avatar mamamoo 11:53 PM 11-24-2006
I am so sorry you are going through this when you should be able to just relish in your new baby. What a selfish man.

SOme of the issues might just be worse because of the lack of support, but I totally second what the pp said.

CAn you lay in bed with lots of pillos to nurse(that is how we did it for a good long while. Or even lots of pillows on the couch. I would put them under each arm(two under the new babe), so they are up high enought then kind of lay back(in a sitting position). Or let the older kiddo lay on your lap, and lay the baby on top of her(if she'll let you). I think it just takes practise. You will get the hang of it soon. And trust me, we have all had those thoughts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ladybugchild77 View Post
OK...tandeming is not going well at the moment and I need some help from you wise Mamas!!! Here are my "issues":

- Every time I sit down to nurse the baby I hear, "Nurse too! Nurse too!" from my toddler. I wouldn't mind nursing them at the same time but I cannot find a position that is comfy for all of us. Then dd#1 gets extremely upset and throws a huge tantrum...If I do nurse them together she just wants to pop on and off and look at thenew baby - cute but it makes me sore...

- Dd#2 fusses like she is not getting enough milk if I let the toddler nurse before her. I know she is though since she spits up almost every time after eating...She will search between the breasts and go back and forth...If I let the toddler nurse after the new one however then I get teeth marks on my breast since she is not finsing as much milk...

- Honestly, I am just not sure if I am cut out to tandem. I know that dd#1 is not ready to wean (she is only 20 mo and nursed through my pregnancy although she wasn't getting much) I find myself putting more and more limits on her nursing and i know it is upsetting to us both. There are other factors coming into play here - without overwhelming all of you on my drama - dh asked for a divorce yesterday and he works 12 hour days so by the time he does come home I am exhausted and touched out so the last thing in the world I want to do is nurse anyone - much less a fussy newborn and screaming toddler at the same time...sigh...thanks, Mamas!!! Help me out, please!

provocativa's Avatar provocativa 02:59 AM 11-25-2006
ladybug, the first month of tandeming is soooo hard, even with adequate help (not that i had that, lol), but you must be freaking out with the dh factor. you can teach the 20 month old how to de-latch better. if anyone can go to the store for you, steel cut oatmeal really helps my supply, and a fenugreek fennel infusion gives me enough milk to nurse four babies. some mamas give the toddler the foremilk on both sides, so that the baby gets more hindmilk. sometimes this fooled my dd1 into thinking she got more mama time since she wasn't used to being offered both sides. i gave my dd1 extra 'mini nursings' to take off the foremilk in between longer sessions and up supply, but she's older and could understand that, i don't think a 20 month old would. i never did get the hang of nursing them both at once unless the older dd was doing some kind of silly acrobatic nursing, standing up, etc. okay, i'm not helping here, i wish i could reach through the computer and do something real. i can't imagine my dh saying such a thing at such a vulnerable time, and he can be a real jerk.
KittyMommy's Avatar KittyMommy 10:17 PM 11-26-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladybugchild77 View Post
- Every time I sit down to nurse the baby I hear, "Nurse too! Nurse too!" from my toddler. I wouldn't mind nursing them at the same time but I cannot find a position that is comfy for all of us. Then dd#1 gets extremely upset and throws a huge tantrum...If I do nurse them together she just wants to pop on and off and look at thenew baby - cute but it makes me sore...
DS was, and still is, a COMPLETE me-too nurser, so I really had no choice but to nurse 'em at the same time. I found that what worked best for me in the beginning was to put DD (baby) in a football hold and then have DS (toddler) in a regular cradle hold across my lap. Since DS wouldn't sleep on his own unless he nursed into a coma first, I would often tuck DD in the ring sling, put her to nursing and then work on getting DS down for his nap. Then I could carry him to lie him down without disturbing DD. Also, having her in a sling and kind of tucked away under my arm was way less distracting for DS. (We usually nurse in a rocker/recliner or on the sofa).

Good luck with everything!
loomweaver's Avatar loomweaver 02:41 PM 11-27-2006
Stephanie,
I feel your pain, my toddler has become a me-too nurser where before I could put her off a little in public or when I was busy by telling her, "In a minute" or "after lunch, naptime" etc..
Now she wails if she doesn't get it. EVEN IF The baby is not nursing. I second the pillow idea. Creative positioning lets me sleep at night.

As other's have said, I'm sorry about your dh, what awful timing. Hopefully he just is having some anxiety himself that will pass. I forget that my dh doesn't have this wonderful supportive group of ladies to bounce stuff off of.
provocativa's Avatar provocativa 01:01 PM 11-28-2006
Practice waiting games and expressions with your toddlers about other things besides nursing. We started with, now we're building a red lego tower and in a minute, we'll build a green one. Repeat repeat. Then Later, a blue tower. Move on to doing it with stuff they really want (part of a treat now, part later). Sometimes dd1 and I would just have conversations about waiting, like when we were riding in the car, etc. Also model waiting yourself and make a big deal out of it- say the kid doesn't want to get out of the bathtub, and you're glad to wait. . . .
chefjulie's Avatar chefjulie 01:49 PM 11-28-2006
Hi mommas!

I am 36w2d today and have a DS (Andrew) who will be 3.5 around my due date (Christmas Eve!).

Andrew nurses at bedtime, some mornings ("wakey-milk") and throughout the day here and there ~ some days less, some more. I know I'll be nursing two in just a few short weeks!

I've read the thread a bit here and there and am hoping to glean some fantastic support and wisdom from you who have gone before me

My biggest concern right now (which I posted over on another area) is that my mom (who is my doula and quite open minded for the most part) and my DH are both over the top about how the baby is going to be "shafted" if I continue to nurse Andrew. Primarily they're frustrated with my "lets just let it play itself out" approach as they point out that there is a limited supply of colostrum and it is meant for the baby, not a 3.5 year old.

Any words of wisdom to help me deal with them?

I am looking forward to less engorgement (or at least help with it!) and for helping Andrew transition to his role as big brother through tandem nursing ~ yet I am so thrilled to read about the frustrations and difficulty that goes with this time period so that I am more prepared for reality!!

Thanks mommas - can't wait to join you "officially" (oh, wait! yes, I CAN wait a few more weeks! LOL)

Julie
mamamoo's Avatar mamamoo 04:14 PM 11-28-2006
Hi Julie! Welcome!

I have tandemed three sets of babes. Everytime there was plenty of colostrum. With my last pregnancy I actually had so much of it in my last trimester I could squirt it across the room, just like milk. LOL I think there are so many women all over the world who tandem, our bodies know what to do.

I bet there is something in Adventures of Tandem Nursing...I need to find my copy.

GOod luck mama!
timneh_mom's Avatar timneh_mom 05:43 PM 11-28-2006
Julie - your baby won't be "shafted"! Everything will be fine! You will have colostrum until your milk comes in - and your milk comes in as a result of losing the hormones from your placenta plus suckling from your baby/toddler. It would be good to offer your colostrum to the baby first, but like milk, it does not "run out", you'll just replace it until your body gets the message that it's time to make milk again. Also, your baby will not need much, literally teaspoons!

I'm almost 30 weeks pregnant so I'm right behind you... I'm waiting to tandem too.
monkeys4mama's Avatar monkeys4mama 07:32 PM 11-28-2006
I agree with the rest of the tandem mommies. Your new baby will do just fine and you will not shortchange the baby on colostrum b/c of tandem nursing. I have tandem nursed three sets of nurslings (including three at a time for almost two years) and the newborns have thrived.
mamamoo's Avatar mamamoo 08:18 PM 11-28-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeys4mama View Post
I agree with the rest of the tandem mommies. Your new baby will do just fine and you will not shortchange the baby on colostrum b/c of tandem nursing. I have tandem nursed three sets of nurslings (including three at a time for almost two years) and the newborns have thrived.

chefjulie's Avatar chefjulie 10:11 PM 11-28-2006
You mommas ROCK!

THANK YOU for sharing your personal stories and for reminding me that all things work out when you just let it.

In fact... my son at nearly 3.5 is just shy of 30 pounds ~ and I've read that older nurslings can put on weight as a result of the high/dense nutrition in the new baby milk... this would be a welcome and positive benefit! That, and all the imunological benefits of the colostrum will only help him during this flu season! See... I actually timed this baby better than I'd thought
provocativa's Avatar provocativa 11:08 PM 11-28-2006
seriously, chefjulie. my 3.5 yo is just over 30 lbs, and got back the chubby cheeks when the milk came in! my response to your dh and mom would be 'thanks for volunteering to distract/keep ds1 occupied completely during the first week'. . . my dd1 was actually so excited by the new baby (she was just barely 3 at the time) that she didn't nurse much colostrum. and i managed to make enough milk that dd2 is huge, dd 1 nursed a lot, and i still got a couple plugged ducts.
mamamoo's Avatar mamamoo 11:58 PM 11-28-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by chefjulie View Post
You mommas ROCK!

THANK YOU for sharing your personal stories and for reminding me that all things work out when you just let it.

In fact... my son at nearly 3.5 is just shy of 30 pounds ~ and I've read that older nurslings can put on weight as a result of the high/dense nutrition in the new baby milk... this would be a welcome and positive benefit! That, and all the imunological benefits of the colostrum will only help him during this flu season! See... I actually timed this baby better than I'd thought
Oh yeah they do! Mine chunk up a lot! LOL
monkeys4mama's Avatar monkeys4mama 01:10 PM 11-29-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamamoo View Post

And right back at ya! I can't tell you how wonderful it is to be able to come to this online community and find other tandem nursing moms, even ones who've tandemed three times, as I have. I love, love, love that I can come here and receive a pat on the back instead of a weird stare (or glare or worse) and that I can offer encouragement and support to others.

You mamas rock!
monkeys4mama's Avatar monkeys4mama 01:17 PM 11-29-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by provocativa View Post
seriously, chefjulie. my 3.5 yo is just over 30 lbs, and got back the chubby cheeks when the milk came in! my response to your dh and mom would be 'thanks for volunteering to distract/keep ds1 occupied completely during the first week'. . . .
ROTFLOL! Oh, I love this reply.

Quote:
my dd1 was actually so excited by the new baby (she was just barely 3 at the time) that she didn't nurse much colostrum. and i managed to make enough milk that dd2 is huge, dd 1 nursed a lot, and i still got a couple plugged ducts
I found that having my older nurslings nursing along with the baby reduced nipple soreness and helped my milk come in faster and also made my supply really good. If noone else has warned you though, the older nursling tends to revert to having really runny soft and frequent poops like a much younger baby. I wasn't too thrilled about that part since I always had two in diapers, but I could live with it. It's a lotta laundry though...
chefjulie's Avatar chefjulie 02:22 PM 11-29-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeys4mama View Post
If noone else has warned you though, the older nursling tends to revert to having really runny soft and frequent poops like a much younger baby. I wasn't too thrilled about that part since I always had two in diapers, but I could live with it. It's a lotta laundry though...
Ah - this had been mentioned to me over two years ago when a good friend started to tandem and her daughter (who'd just turned 2) quit eating solids at all and went on a straight breastmilk diet!

My son self potty learned in February of last year (just past the 2.5y mark) but in the past month has had half dozen incidences with "mommy, I didn't make it to the bathroom to poop on time" ~~ I am going to have to be on top of that when the poop gets "runny soft and frequent"!

Thanks for the advice!

Oh, and I too, LOVE the "thanks for offering to keep him occupied for the first week or so!"
loomweaver's Avatar loomweaver 03:16 PM 11-29-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by chefjulie View Post
Ah - this had been mentioned to me over two years ago when a good friend started to tandem and her daughter (who'd just turned 2) quit eating solids at all and went on a straight breastmilk diet!

My son self potty learned in February of last year (just past the 2.5y mark) but in the past month has had half dozen incidences with "mommy, I didn't make it to the bathroom to poop on time" ~~ I am going to have to be on top of that when the poop gets "runny soft and frequent"!

Thanks for the advice!

Oh, and I too, LOVE the "thanks for offering to keep him occupied for the first week or so!"

It's just too bad that the older nurslings poop SMELLS like toddler poop rather than breastmilk poop!
My DD1 is still regressing at a month past her brother's birth but I know that she is just going through a phase and it will pass. I'm not going to make any changes until after the holidays...

I'm reading all your posts and learning a lot, just don't have a lot of reply time right now....
jillmamma's Avatar jillmamma 08:52 PM 12-03-2006
Ah yes...the runnier poop. When I was in the third trimester of pregnancy and my colostrum came back, at first I thought DS had diarrhea. I can say that his stools firmed back up again once he was back to a more usual nursing schedule.
chefjulie's Avatar chefjulie 12:15 AM 12-04-2006
I am 37 weeks today and swear I have nuthin' in the boobages. Andrew still wants to nurse, but today told me that my right side is "closed"

When I had Andrew (at 39w1d) it was another 2-3 days before I even had colostrum and a full week before I had any real supply of milk.

I'd have thought that wouldn't be the case if I was still nursing, albeit a 3.5 year old who didnt nurse a LOT. Is it possible that my colostrum will still take a long time to come in or do you think I'll actually have something for this little one upon arrival?

I was so stressed and frustrated that I had nothing to offer my little guy last time - apart from the opportunity to practice...
Swandira's Avatar Swandira 12:57 AM 12-04-2006
Can I jump in? My almost-four-year-old and my nine-month-old both nurse. My older one pretty much weaned during my third trimester, but then when we brought the baby home from the hospital and my milk came in he asked to nurse too. He never went through much of a phase of nursing constantly, though -- when he started nursing again it was pretty much once a day, like it had been when I got pregnant with the second one. He's down to less than once a day now.

I'm finding I have a bit of self-consciousness about nursing a soon-to-be-four-year-old. That's just so far beyond our society's norm that I'm feeling a little anxious about my relatives finding it out when we visit for the holidays -- and they may find out. I'm trying so hard to just be cool about it, but I feel pretty anxious because I know it would probably be pretty shocking for my family.

Nealy
Mama to Thales, 12/9/02, and Lydia, 2/26/06
loomweaver's Avatar loomweaver 01:20 PM 12-04-2006
Mu MIL and SIL were here o visit this past week and just left yesterday. They didn't say a thing about my 32 month old nursing but I was also a little self-concious in the beginning about it. They are also all in our bed and they didn't say anything about that either. My MIL was kinda a hippie when she was raising her kids so they were raised on a farm/commune in Des Moines and Austin as vegetarians doing TM. Now she is a NICU nurse.
Anyway, it was alright though.
Mama2ABCD's Avatar Mama2ABCD 11:54 AM 12-07-2006
chefjulie, you might not have an abundant supply at the moment, but as soon as your new one is here it changes! you'll have plenty of colustrum for two, and then when your milk comes in.....just be glad you have that extra nursling for the engorgement
your body will meet the demand! and your older nursling is going to be soooo happy to a lot of milk again he just might give up all other forms of nurishment for the next few months which is good for him (might be a little bit hard on you but remember it's not forever). and since it's just about winter, what a good time to be nursing extra!
hypatia's Avatar hypatia 06:02 PM 12-07-2006
ChefJulie:

My guess is your milk might come in faster this time because your older child can trigger it even more efficiently than your baby.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swandira
I'm finding I have a bit of self-consciousness about nursing a soon-to-be-four-year-old. That's just so far beyond our society's norm that I'm feeling a little anxious about my relatives finding it out when we visit for the holidays -- and they may find out. I'm trying so hard to just be cool about it, but I feel pretty anxious because I know it would probably be pretty shocking for my family.
I know. It's so much harder to be cool and composed and firm in your beliefs around your family than with anybody else, isn't it?
Airmid03's Avatar Airmid03 10:11 PM 12-07-2006
Hi can I join you guys? I'm nursing my 22 mo dd, Alex, and 1mo dd Sarah. We're doing pretty well so far. My biggest problem right now is figuring out how to nurse them at the same time. Most days Sarah nurses a LOT - almost constantly for several hours, thanks to her great nighttime sleeping. Alex gets a little jealous and gets pretty obnoxious when she's tired (throwing things, trying to push Sarah out of my lap, abusing the dog, etc). It's been difficult to get her to nap for a few months now and she probably only naps 3 days a week. The only way that I can get her to sleep is nursing. And the only way that I can nurse them together at this point isn't really conducive to sleep - I get Sarah in cradle hold, but with her legs out away from me rather than against me. Alex can then get in on the other side by kneeling next to me, but she can't lay down. I'm working on nursing them laying down, but it's difficult for us. I need both hands to get Sarah latched and she seems to get distracted easily and come unlatched. It gets frustrating for everyone. Any other suggestions on positions that would allow Alex to lay down?
gina871's Avatar gina871 01:49 AM 12-08-2006
This week I have been ready to wean my 4yr. She is very demanding. Any way has one heard about the mother who was stuck in the wilderness for 9 day with her 4 yr. and 7 month old. Both mom and daughters made out alive because she nursed both of them. That has given me new insight on keeping nursing my 4 year. Oh hopefully it will also shed some positive light on long term nursing.
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