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Old 11-09-2006, 07:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by josybear View Post
the problem really is that she's an unpop. her presence is required at the unpop thread, so her housework, hygeine and cooking all suffer. that is the sacrifice that us unpops have to make for our tribe. *tries to look noble*
That is so true. My youngest nursling is almost 4, yet I have been known to sacrifice my shower time in order to have more time with the Unpops. You know, we probably would all get alot more done if we just moved in together, and threw all the puters out the window.

"With the thoughts I'd be thinkin', I could be another Lincoln,

If I only had a brain."duh.gif

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Old 11-09-2006, 07:07 PM
 
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That is so true. My youngest nursling is almost 4, yet I have been known to sacrifice my shower time in order to have more time with the Unpops. You know, we probably would all get alot more done if we just moved in together, and threw all the puters out the window.
what an excellent idea.
let us join forces in... hmm, where would be good?
oh, i know!
WINNIPEG! :
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:19 PM
 
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This is a serious matter, people.

Wifey to Hubby, Mama to Boy (2004) and Girl (2009). 
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:29 PM
 
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Hang in there. This too shall pass. My now 13 month dd did this minus the nipple shield for months. It was so hard to do anything else. I am so glad now I hung in there. She is now a happy healthy little one and we have a wonderful nursing relationship. Big hugs to you. This is a hard situation, just know you are not alone in going through this and there are others of us that have weathered similar circumstances and now have a wonderful nursing relationship. Try not think in terms of I have not been able to do anything all day and I can't see a time when I will be able to do anything. Try to just focus on one feeding and one nursing. All things change and this too shall pass. You and your baby will get the hang of things. Big big hugs to you.
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by josybear View Post
if you move to winnipeg it will all get better instantly. enough of this seattle mumbo jumbo.



hey, you asked for advice, didn't you?
Awesome!

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Originally Posted by rachelernst.com View Post
Is she urping up at all? Is it curdly or just plain old wet and looks like milk?

My aunt with 8 kids told me in my first week of motherhood that if they nurse for 7 minutes she feels they're doing good. That was good advice. The books are wrong on this point for many of us. 7 minutes is good. My son was a quick nurser all along the 18 months. (I think I might have a fast letdown and flow).

I experimented with how to rotate breasts so he got more hindmilk which helped him go longer stretches between feedings. Eventually we ended up nursing one side per session so he got the full effect of hindmilk. Then later on when he got even bigger, he would take both sides and drain them both.

Is it tied in with a sleep disruption problem coupled with a suck-to-sleep association!?? That was my problem with my first (I have another new baby now). Step 1) he wanted to suck to sleep (S2S) because that's what I taught him. Mainly, I didn't try out other soothing methods because the sucking worked and I didn't know better, was lazy at night. Step 2)He would then rouse from sleep and expect the nipple in mouth, then wake because it wasn't. I didn't know how long an infant CAN sleep when they DON'T have the S2S association, so I assumed his short naps were normal (which I supposed they could be in some babies). Step 3) He then wanted to nurse more often because he was waking up more often and I would nurse him back to sleep furthering the S2S association problem. BEGIN vicious cycle. Problem is, he liked sucking to start with so it wasn't ALL my fault. I wish I had at least TRIED the Happiest Baby on the Block methods to soothe at night and try to break the S2S early on. Breastfeeding is the first discipline. I try to parent very gently, however, discipline I feel is just a learning process. I might suggest putting the baby in a bassinette at night (just not right next to you) so that you HAVE to wake up when she cries (sometimes you latch them on when they are *just* fussy not hungry and this starts the S2S problem. Learning "fussy" vs. "distressed" or hungry is key.) I started my problem by latching on umpteen times per night and not even knowing it because I was half asleep!

Maybe try doing what you can to get more feedings close together and let them begin to be 1 right after the other so that you view a "session" as several on-off-on-off. Settle down and relax for awhile and stage your OWN nurse-in. Then, knowing she's FULL get her to sleep some other way, even if she fusses or cries in the sling (but giver her something else to suck on). Also focus on giving her some other cues to how she goes to sleep. My DD goes to sleep quite easily with the bathroom fan on I think because I trained her to do that by being consistently in there when I wanted her to go to sleep (it's always dark and the fan noise is soothing to her). Focus on the *last step* just before they nod off to avoid the S2S. Learn more in The No Cry Sleep Solution by Pantley.

Also, around 3-5 months she may find her hands and suck on those. It's a tough choice whether to encourage that. I did with my son by giving him a cloth lovey (cloth is easy for them to bring up to their mouth and it's like a reflex) and he sucks his thumb now and I don't forsee that changing until he's maybe 4(?). I don't want to have to do something to break him of it, other than some gentle re-training at most. But, it helped us get through some rougher times and eventually he could go back to sleep a little better with the thumb. He's still not a good sleeper, some of it must be personality.

Not so my daughter, she is a dream. She naturally doesn't want to suck, so no S2S problems here. Coincidentally (?) she also sleeps long stretches. Being able to compare these 2 babies makes me realize that babies are SO very different from each other.

Your baby may have a strong suck need and you may consider giving her something else to suck on. That's why I asked those first 2 questions. She may be overfeeding due to wanting to suck?
She does burp up a little, and generally it's almost always curdly. She doesn't have to nurse to sleep. Getting her to sleep is (USUALLY) actually extraordinarily easy. We lay her down, give her the paci, turn on a music box and provided she is adequately tired she will roll around silently a bit, and then doze right off. I know that 7 minutes is fine, but sometimes she will eat for 3 minutes. And then want to eat again in 30 minutes, and then eat for 5 minutes, and then want to eat 20 minutes later. THAT'S why I don't get anything done. We do get full hour stretches, but there is a A LOT of that going on too.

We do give her a paci, but she will get MAD if that's not what she really wants. I have tried to do the we are gonna just sit here and feed you as often as we are willing to let me feed you, and she WILL do that, eat for 5 minutes, play for a few minutes, eat for 4 minutes, play for a few minutes, eat for 5 minutes and be done. But then she still wants to eat in 45 minutes.

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Originally Posted by whoamama View Post
Here's a random thought that just popped into my head: let's say you did wean. Now how easy is it going to be to comfort an infant who needs to suck alot, has to have bottles of formula prepared, etc. When I ran a home daycare, the hardest thing was comforting little ones, I always used to suckle my own kids to make them feel bettter. Liv and I have been butting heads all afternoon, but are now both calm because we are sitting and nursing.
I know. That's why I don't want to quit. I just need help getting over this hump. Thank's for that thought, I agree that it would be a NIGHTMARE.

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Originally Posted by LittleLlama View Post
s s s

We had a phase like that for about 6 weeks. Lucky me, it was while I was supposed to be packing to move! I've never been able to nurse in a sling, so I was so incredibly unproductive

What worked for me was to just let him be angry for a few minutes and eat every 65 minutes rather than 60. In another couple days I pushed it to 70. Mind you, he was used to 65 so it was only a couple of minutes that he was angry but I'd go outside for a little while, help him pet the cats, watch the water fill up in the washing machine, take a bath and anything else to just keep him distracted for a few minutes while we stretched the interval just a bit.

I'm sure purists of on-demand nursing would disagree with that tactic, but if the current habits are keeping you from eating, then nursing is not giving your babe all the good nutrition it could be.

Titus is now a strapping 27 pounds at 11 months, so I don't think he was hurt by it at all.
Hmmmm. We sorta do that now, but haven't really made it a concentrated effort. But, she goes from happy giggling playing baby to I WANT TO EAT 5 MINUTES AGO like a lightswitch. Maybe I stink at this whole parenting thing and I am not reading her cues well enough, but I can't seem to get this figured out.

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Originally Posted by rachelernst.com View Post
See my previous long post. Try modified block feeding which is more like switching back and forth. Do the first breast. Unlatch her before she's ready, and switch sides (give verbal cue for her to learn "Switch!" so she learns to accept that she'll get the other breast now instead of getting upset that she's being taken off.) Do a small amount on the second breast, then switch again. I think there are multiple reasons for this, one of which is my own theory: keep them interested i.e. not bored and get more milk into them in one feeding--trying to discipline them to "sit down and eat" instead of nursing all day, i.e. be a grazer. But, my main point here is that if you ONLY do 1 breast per session, maybe the flow tapers down and then she quits only to get hungry again sooner. Keep her interested for as long as you can and do both breasts to make sure she knows there's more available. Stay seated and nurse as soon as she will get re-interested.



Can you talk to a lactation consultant about how to get her off the shield? If you birthed at a hospital, the H's lac consult may talk to you for free.


Lots and lots of diapers. She has a dirty one at least once a day, sometimes 2-3. She was having green diapers for a few days BUT, she had a cold. I think it was that and not an imbalance issue.

She shows no real pronounced signs of reflux now, although she did in the beginning.

Try a cup instead of bottle. See Womanly Art of Breastfeeding or just get an infant BFing cup.

You can get more milk from pumping by practicing. I got more as I learned the pumping process on my own from just trying for many many times. Your flow can increase (faster, bigger letdown) if you time it right and as your baby also gradually increases her usage.

Whatever you try, stick with it! Sometimes you have to try something for a few days to know if it's working. Then try something else next week.

Oh, and think in terms of using whatever is the BEST time of day for you to get a break to TAKE IT and choose only 1 thing to accomplish. Those early days were the beginning of me not taking a shower every day, and sometimes only taking a bath as a way to de-stress (instead of doing housework). As a mother you will never go back to your former life and this is the beginning of YOUR discipline! You must learn to use your time wisely! Prioritize! I started on a totally different way of life as a mother, and I'll never be the same. The discipline of Motherhood is so new, and it will define you anew. This will pass! When your DD is 2 years old you'll be amazed how quickly it went. REALLY!
Hmmm. Like the idea of the switch feeding.

The hospital Lactation Consultant is the one that GAVE ME the nipple shield.

I need to prioritize, I agree with that. And in the beginning when she was eating every two hours, it was no problem to do anything I needed to. But this really threw me for a loop!

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Originally Posted by Mama Poot View Post
. You might also want to check into the possibility of reflux. Some babies will nurse and nurse and nurse just to keep that burning acid from going up into their throat. When my 1st was your DD's age, he was doing the same thing. I was pregnant at the time and did not know it. So please take a pregnancy test and make sure you know *for sure*. Until you figure out what is going on, you need to keep nursing her on demand and do NOT offer supplements unless it is expressed milk.
I can assure you, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that I am pregnant. : (Is it extraordinarily sad that even through all of this, that I wouldn't secretly mind? Please don't flame me, I am not going to go and get pregnant. I just.....loved being pregnant and I LOVE my baby)

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Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
Another thought- if she likes nursing with the nipple shield so much, would she take the nipple shield as a pacifier?

Maybe try offering the same breast for 2 feedings in a row so she gets more hindmilk and stays full longer?

Another thing I'm having a hard time understanding is why you "can't get anything done" if she's nursing for 7-10 minutes out of every hour. That's 50-53 minutes of "not nursing time" each hour. I certainly understand that babies require care besides feeding, but maybe part of the problem is that you need to learn how to re-organize your time, and do housework and stuff in little chunks, rather than needing a whole hour to "do everything."
But wouldn't using the nipple shield as a paci cause her to swallow MASS QUANTATIES of air?

We have tried block nursing, and are actively doing that.

The reason I am having a hard time getting anything done is because it isn't 7 minutes and then 53 minutes of nothing. But see the above comments. : Like I said, I am aware that I need to figure out my priorities. I am new at this, and I am working on it, but that's not exactly what I came on here about.
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hang in there. This too shall pass. My now 13 month dd did this minus the nipple shield for months. It was so hard to do anything else. I am so glad now I hung in there. She is now a happy healthy little one and we have a wonderful nursing relationship. Big hugs to you. This is a hard situation, just know you are not alone in going through this and there are others of us that have weathered similar circumstances and now have a wonderful nursing relationship. Try not think in terms of I have not been able to do anything all day and I can't see a time when I will be able to do anything. Try to just focus on one feeding and one nursing. All things change and this too shall pass. You and your baby will get the hang of things. Big big hugs to you.
I don't know why, but this post really struck a cord with me. I cried. Thank you.

I know it will. And I appreciate all the advice and help that everyone has given me. I just had a meltdown this morning and needed to be reminded why I need to keep doing this, and I gotta tell you, advice and ideas aside, this one is gonna stick with me.
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:40 PM
 
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I know it will. And I appreciate all the advice and help that everyone has given me. I just had a meltdown this morning and needed to be reminded why I need to keep doing this, and I gotta tell you, advice and ideas aside, this one is gonna stick with me.
We you Sabbath.

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Old 11-09-2006, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:51 PM
 
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I wonder if 4 months is some special time. You've been going through it for several months, but I remember 4 months with my first dd and how we'd sit on the couch and she'd latch on, then off, on, off, on, off, finally getting on and nursing for a few minutes until she went to sleep. Then she'd sleep for 20ish minutes but if I tried to get up she would wake up and want to nurse. It felt like she was always at the breast or catnapping on my lap, and I remember complaining about it online. Hopefully it will pass soon, and you can get a break!
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Old 11-09-2006, 08:20 PM
 
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Hang in there. I would spend a couple of weeks and really focus on getting off the nipple shield, because it sounds like it's making your life even harder.

good luck!

-Angela
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Old 11-09-2006, 08:31 PM
 
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I'm sorry! This sounds rough.

I used a nipple shield with my son on the recomendation of the hospital and wish I hadn't. It took some work to get him off of it. Basically, it was a 2 person job. I would get him to latch on with the shield and once the let down started (When you see the big, slow swallows) I took him off really quick, removed the shield and put him back on. He eventually took the breast without the shield. I had a lactation consultant help me with this. Perhaps your husband could help you. The LC basically held my breast kind of pinched down like when you're trying to get a baby to latch on, yanked the shield off and I put baby back on all in about 1/2 a second. When he refussed, we put the shield back on and started the process over. He eventually took it. It also helped to do it when baby was kind of sleepy. He seemed less picky about how he got his milk at that time.

It was SO frustrating to deal with. You can get through this!

-Melany

Married to DH in 1999, Mother to Big N (2004), Mother to Little N (2005), Expecting our third in March (2013).

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Old 11-09-2006, 09:42 PM
 
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I have not read the other replies, so I apologize for any repeat info.

THIS TOO SHALL PASS.

As soon as she starts doing things, like sitting up and play with toys she'll cut back. In fact, maybe if you get her out of the house more (not sure how often you get out now, but it sounds like you are home most of the day) she'll get somewhat distracted and not nurse as often.

Keep in mind also that if you quit bf'ing her, that just means you'll have to formula feed and she's likely going to eat just as often. And making bottles will only take up more of your time. And if she gets impatient waiting for a boob, imagine her disgust with your making bottles.

I've ff and I've bf. BF wins hands down. Not only is it better for mom and baby, but it's a heck of a lot more convenient.

And I suggest getting a sling. You can use a water sling in the shower and a regular sling to do your hair, make meals, etc.
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Old 11-09-2006, 10:01 PM
 
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Oooh, mine was a clingy popper too at that age! I remember how hard it was. Now she is almost a year, and I tell you, it gets sooo much easier. Because they become interested in more around them, on learning how to use their body, and though they may still want to nurse frequently, once they have autonomy over their bodies, they can come to you and do their thing, rather than all of the holding, swaddeling, accomodating that happens with an infant.
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Old 11-10-2006, 12:21 AM
 
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It gets so much better, trust me. Around six months or so, breastfeeding is much easier than formula feeding. Imagine not having to pack much (diapers and wipes) when leaving the house (formula feeding moms have to worry about bringing enough for baby to eat, you already have that if you bf). In the meantime, take it ONE FEEDING AT A TIME! You will get through this. It will pass quickly. Soon, you will be looking back wondering where the first year went and you will be enjoying the antics of a nursing toddler.
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Old 11-10-2006, 12:30 AM
 
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I wonder if 4 months is some special time. You've been going through it for several months, but I remember 4 months with my first dd and how we'd sit on the couch and she'd latch on, then off, on, off, on, off, finally getting on and nursing for a few minutes until she went to sleep. Then she'd sleep for 20ish minutes but if I tried to get up she would wake up and want to nurse. It felt like she was always at the breast or catnapping on my lap, and I remember complaining about it online. Hopefully it will pass soon, and you can get a break!
Yeah, I think the same thing. First, experience. More on that in a minute. Second, Harvey Karp (Happiest Baby). He says it's the 4th Trimester. I'd heard that elsewhere also and it makes sense to me. Also, another author I don't really recommend or agree with on all points but I do use as a reference for some info on sleep, Weissbluth (Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child) says that at 4 months the *way babies enter sleep* changes (this has to do with light sleep vs. deep sleep. My son with the S2S association would have to be held for *20 minutes* until he was in deep sleep and then I could set him down without him waking--I'd read to try this in one of Dr. William Sears' books. It was 20 minutes on the nose for a long time.

Experience: at 4 months my son started crying at night for longer periods, popping on and off the breast a lot. This is when I started freaking out and co-sleeping seemed not to work anymore. Yep, I agree with the 4 months on that one.

I now have a 3 month old going on 4 months and I'm gettin' worried about the changes ahead. She's SUCH a good sleeper now and an easy BFer.

Another part of my 4 month theory is that we try so hard in the early months and by 4 months we're hitting the time when we're just tired as well as it's just hard to sustain the "consistency" we're supposed to be providing. So, a lot is happening at 4 months and it just comes to a head.
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Old 11-14-2006, 12:20 PM
 
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Wow, hang in there Mama!

I could have written a similar post when ds was that age.
I am SOOO into breastfeeding. Yet I remember sitting in the rocker in the middle of the night, thinking maybe soy formula wouldn't be so bad
I hadn't yet donated them to the women's shelter yet, so those free samples of formula were sitting in the pantry. Not to mention the sound reverberating in my head of the ill-informed people around me "three months is enough", "he's had enough breastmilk".

Knowing how I feel about breastfeeding, I know I must have been at a very low, sleep deprived point to feel that way.

It passed.

Best of luck to you, you are doing a wonderful, beautiful thing.
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