Friend wants to bf all day, give formula at night - comments? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 08-01-2007, 01:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Juvysen View Post
I'd recommend co-sleeping instead. Rolling over and whipping out a boob and going back to sleep seems a lot easier than getting up, going to the kitchen, fumbling with making a bottle, warming the bottle, making sure the bottle isn't too hot, consoling your baby who's screaming because he/she's hungry and making a bottle takes time, feeding the bottle to the baby, spending a lot of time burping the baby because he/she got air in his/her tummy from the screaming and then from hungrily gulping, and then finally getting yourself destressed from the screaming, etc, so you can get back to sleep.
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Gosh... I never understood that either. Co-sleeping and breastfeeding is very sleep friendly, all things considered!

Stacey teaching teens to read & write... Daddy plays ska, DD1 (7/05) loves trees & princesses, & DD2 (3/10) loves mommy-milk! Please get your kids tested for lead.
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:32 PM
 
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Also, baby rustling and squeaking is the best sound ever. I have never woken up to any sweeter sound. The sweet squeaks and rustles soon turn to cries if you have to take the time to prepare a bottle!
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:48 PM
 
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Anecdotally: my first woke every few hours to nurse (3 hours was a long stretch for us) and was still waking up to nurse at least once at a year. My second started sleeping through, and I mean 7-8 hour stretches,suddenly at three weeks. She was a big baby, maybe that was the difference? Both were exclusively BF'd.

I wouldn't use formula unless there was a medical reason to do so, it's designed to provide for an infant's nutritional needs, to keep them alive. Why would you use something that's "good enough" when you have breastmilk, with all of it's nutritive, emotional and immunity boosting benefits right there? To get some extra sleep? That's pretty short sighted.

I'm not saying having a newborn is a cakewalk - sleep deprivation sucks - big time. However, it's too bad she's entering into this with "Hmm, how can I make my life easier" vs "What's best for the baby?"

My DC are almost 4 and 2, now, no one nurses at night and I miss those late nights of nursing, looking down at my infant and holding him (and her.) It's such a fleeting, beautiful phase and while challenging, far more rewarding if you look at it as a brief time to cherish rather than a burden to be dealt with.

Mama to DS (8) and DD (7) Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not "Every man for himself." And the London Underground is not a political movement.

 

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Old 08-01-2007, 07:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BlueStateMama View Post
Anecdotally: my first woke every few hours to nurse (3 hours was a long stretch for us) and was still waking up to nurse at least once at a year. My second started sleeping through, and I mean 7-8 hour stretches,suddenly at three weeks. She was a big baby, maybe that was the difference? Both were exclusively BF'd.

I wouldn't use formula unless there was a medical reason to do so, it's designed to provide for an infant's nutritional needs, to keep them alive. Why would you use something that's "good enough" when you have breastmilk, with all of it's nutritive, emotional and immunity boosting benefits right there? To get some extra sleep? That's pretty short sighted.

I'm not saying having a newborn is a cakewalk - sleep deprivation sucks - big time. However, it's too bad she's entering into this with "Hmm, how can I make my life easier" vs "What's best for the baby?"

My DC are almost 4 and 2, now, no one nurses at night and I miss those late nights of nursing, looking down at my infant and holding him (and her.) It's such a fleeting, beautiful phase and while challenging, far more rewarding if you look at it as a brief time to cherish rather than a burden to be dealt with.
Yeah...what she said
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MilkTrance View Post
We gave a few supplemental formula bottles in the beginning.

My DS's tummy really didn't react well to formula. He got a LOT of gas. If your friend's baby is anything like mine, she'd be up more often having to burp and calm her baby.
This is what I was thinking. Most of the people I know who formula feed have babies who are fussy at night, usually with gas and digestion issues. I wonder how having a bottle just before bed would work out - it might not help; in fact, it might make the situation worse.
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Old 08-02-2007, 04:08 AM
 
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This means that each time she gives formula, the baby will be skipping a meal that he normally would be waking up for. (In other words, he may sleep 4 hours on formula, where he would be only sleeping 2 hours on breastmilk... so he's missing that second feeding in there.) Which means that he won't be getting as many calories and nutrients as his body really needs. Which means that in order to give herself more sleep, she's going to be depriving the baby of a feeding or two that his body would naturally need.
I don't see how this can possibly be true.

Going with this logic of 'missing feedings', how do FF babies grow (and actually they tend to be heavier than BF babies) if they are consistently being fed less often due to the longer digestion time of formula?

I have always been under the impression that FF and BF babies all take in approximately the same number of ounces (based upon their weight) per day, but FF babies tend to take in more ounces per feeding, thus needing less frequent feedings on average.

Don't get me wrong...I think the 'plan' to supplement at night from the beginning is very likely a BAD idea, but the assertation that baby would be deprived of calories by doing so just doesn't seem possible. If it *is* possible, I wonder how it's possible that FF babies end up heavier in general if they are 'missing' meals on a regular basis. Plenty of babies thrive on a combination of BM and formula too, so I guess I just don't get this particular argument.
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:31 AM
 
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Yes but say a baby would normally have two feedings of 3 ounces or instead take a bottle of 6 ounces.

That is two nursing sessions the baby is missing and for which the mother has to pump.

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Old 08-02-2007, 11:22 AM
 
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Yes but say a baby would normally have two feedings of 3 ounces or instead take a bottle of 6 ounces.

That is two nursing sessions the baby is missing and for which the mother has to pump.
Oh absolutely. Or maybe she *doesn't* pump, but any time baby takes in EITHER pumped breastmilk OR formula by bottle and mom *doesn't* pump, the very real possibility of supply issues creeps in.

However, that is not what the statement I quoted talked about. The statement was made that baby is being deprived of calories by being fed formula instead of breastmilk, 'missing' a feeding, because of the longer time it takes for formula to digest, and *that* is what I was questioning.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:24 AM
 
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Oh I'm sorry. I misread your post.

Jam 7, Peanut Butter 5, and Bread 2.

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Old 08-02-2007, 11:47 AM
 
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So many good points were made on this topic and I could write pages on all the wonderful, dark of night memories I have when the true bonding occured (weepy now, sniff sniff), I will share why night-time breastfeeding was so wonderful for us.

BF relaxed me to the point to near euphoria. I would be so relaxed that I would fall asleep immediately upon laying back down in bed (so very unlike my many sleepless pregnancy nights) We both slept so well between feedings, the interuptions made little difference. Although all babies are different, my son slept long stretches rather early on.

Mom to DS, born fall 05 after ,,, wife/best friend to DH We have
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Old 08-02-2007, 12:09 PM
 
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Is she going back to work? Some babies "reverse cycle" and will feed a lot more when they are home with mom, including at night. Another reason the plan may not work.

Take the time to heal from your marriage before you move on with someone else. Make a list of all the qualities you would like in a new partner and then work on growing that way yourself. ~mandib50
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you thank you everybody!

Co-sleeping-cloth-diapering-pumping-non-vaxing Mama to Cricket 1-18-07 and Mauri 5-27-09
Married to my favorite SAHD, Outnumbered by woolies
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:27 AM
 
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i just wanted to reiterate that there is no reason to think giving formula would cause the babe to STTN any sooner. studies have shown that neither formula nor cereal do this. and an informal and very unscientific poll of moms (some of whom BF and others of whom combo or FF feed) will show you right quick that the feeding method does not correlate with the sleep habits one bit. DD has been a pretty good sleeper (not a miracle baby who STTN 8 hours at 2 weeks or anything; but we came home from the hospital doing 4-hour stretches and have been at 5-8 since about 6 weeks) and has never had a drop of formula.

dissertating wife of Boo, mama of one "mookie" lovin' 2 year old girl! intactlact:: CTA until 7/10 FF 1501dc
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Old 08-05-2007, 04:33 PM
 
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We've used both formula and breastfeeding at night, for many reasons.

I noticed no increase in sleeping longer w/ formula, and alternately (in those early days) I noticed no decrease in gas/fussiness with breastfeeding. The only thing that helps those issues is age. Baby grows out of a lot of these after a few months.

If that's her reason for formula at night, it likely will not work. It is nice, however, to have a partner/dad do a feeding sometimes so mom can sleep.(after the first 6 wks or so when you're not prone to wake up having leaked all over the bed...)

But even so, a few bottles here and there does not constitute a routine, and I'd temper the alarmist warnings of dropped supply and 'nipple confusion' problems with the assuption that maybe your friend is relatively intelligent and will figure this out..

My son is 5 months and we're still breastfeeding just great despite breaking all the 'rules' about supplemental formula in those early weeks.
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Old 08-05-2007, 04:50 PM
 
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Personally, I think she can do whatever she wants. I don't understand the point of opening it up for a discussion which will only lead to judging her... and will not change her mind. *shrug*

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Old 08-05-2007, 07:51 PM
 
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really, i'd focus on the easy for mom issues.

like everyone said, i cannot imagine the horror of having to prepare and feed a bottle in the middle of the night. (or, i can imagine it and that's why i find it horrifying...)

like one great post said, i sleep so well after bfing, fall asleep so easily. i doubt i would fall asleep easily after listening to hungry crying, dealing with bottle, etc.

also, it took my breasts a long time to regulate to the point where i wasn't in pretty serious pain and really really WANTING to feed the baby before he even woke up. he would sleep a little longer, my breasts would learn to go a little longer. maybe this would be resolved in a few days with the cold turkey at night method, but i doubt it since it took a good long time to adjust to the eventual sleep through the night.

and, yeah, the studies and annecdotes about ffing not necessarily causing longer sleep periods.

but, hey, this poor woman may have a lot going through her head. maybe she's planning to/needing to go back to work very soon after birth. maybe she's had problems brought on by sleep deprivation before (more than just "it makes me grouchy"). sleep deprivation can be a serious issue and just dealing with it because it's best for baby may not end up being all that great for baby (if mom ends up severly depressed, for instance, which can be brought on/aggravated by sleep deprivation).

i guess i'd recommed gently bringing up the main points that run through these posts and getting her in the mind set of try it out and see how it goes.

it took me about 3 months to be really happy with bfing and now i'm SO glad i did it (not that i really seriously considered stopping...) and part of that is that i know it's best for baby, but a lot of it is the convenience for me. no waste, little mess, totally portable, totally perfect. i've done so many fun outings and trips that would have been a nightmare if i was carrying formula!

and now that ds pretty much always sleeps nice and long at night, i don't even dread the few nights he doesn't because it is SO easy to feed him back to sleep (and i don't even co-sleep, it's still easy).

ooh, and totally about the nasty formula poo. we use cloth diapers, so that's a major plus for me. i'm delaying solids as long as i can!!!

Wife to the man I never expected, DS born at home '07, '08, baby girl born at home Oct '09!
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