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#61 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 02:39 AM
 
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Please don't judge me, but I smoked pot on a daily basis while I bf my DS. He's at the top of his class and has no problems whatsoever. I am not telling you to do it, I'm just speaking the truth here. I've quit pot long ago and have no desire to ever smoke it again.
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#62 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 02:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Kailey's mom View Post
Loriforeman, That is so heartbreaking about your cousin's children:


edited to add : I just reread one of your posts. Please don't think it's your fault that two of your children have SN's. Please don't do that to yourself.
Yes, please don't think that.

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Originally Posted by haynmama View Post
Please don't judge me, but I smoked pot on a daily basis while I bf my DS. He's at the top of his class and has no problems whatsoever. I am not telling you to do it, I'm just speaking the truth here. I've quit pot long ago and have no desire to ever smoke it again.
I won't judge

Now, let's see if I can articulate my thoughts.

I think that some people have an image of a smoking mama as one who does it all the time, and even goddess forbid, around the baby, or to the degree that it impairs her judgement and parenting abilities. Sadly, this does happen. But it's not an automatic consequence if one decides to partake. Moderation is key.

I've known a great number of people with mental issues (depression, anxiety, ptsd, for example) for whom pharmaceuticals did not work, however, MJ did. There are reasons why it is legal medicinally in some states.

Anyway, my point is, and I think it's been made and/or alluded to already, that smoking pot isn't an automatic horrible thing with terrible consequences (illegality aside, as it's not illegal everywhere), sometimes it is a greatly beneficial medicine when used correctly, but our social stigmas lead many to believe otherwise.
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#63 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 02:56 AM
 
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Very true. But there is no proof of negative effects on babies, unless you're a chronic, and even then negative effects are pretty mild, not common, and reversable, IMO. I actually have never seen a babe who seemed negatively affected by MJ, and I've known some mamas who partake.

If you want to worry about effects on nursing babes, worry about pollution, car exhaust when you walk down the street. Worry about pharmaceuticals, about crappy food with poor nutrition, about poverty and mamas forced to stop breastfeeding early to return to work coz they have no mat leave.

Don't worry about the ganja. The ganja is not a big deal. Seems a silly thing to focus so much fear and judgment upon. I think it is the effects of government propaganda that cause so much controversy, nothing more than that.

We will believe anything they tell us, apparently.
I think the real point here is being missed - we DON'T KNOW if marijuana affects babies that are nursing from mothers who partake in pot smoking. That being said, why would you (the general you, not you specifically) do something that could possibly jeopardize your baby's health when you can just choose not to smoke pot until you're done nursing?

IMO, this points to a bigger issue of why can't mama NOT smoke pot for a few years for baby's sake? Or even, why is mama smoking pot in the first place? :

I don't think the ganja is something to be worried about, I think it's safer than alcohol and cigarettes and I don't think pot should be illegal, BUT... IMO (repeat, IMO) it's a crutch (not that that's inherently bad - we all have our crutches) and I feel like there's a bigger issue of why people smoke it in the first place that should be dealt with - especially if a nursing babe's health is being put at risk (which we don't know is the case or not). : : : :
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#64 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 02:56 AM
 
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Yes, please don't think that.
while i thank both of you for the sentiment, of course i believe that.

personal accountability.
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#65 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 03:13 AM
 
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I could give all kinds of anecdotal information, but I thought you might find this helpful, original poster:

Prenatal Marijuana Exposure and Neonatal Outcomes in Jamaica
this discusses breastfeeding

More on Dr. Dreher

and this from Mothering Mag

this discusses breastfeeding looks like an interesting book...

 hh2.gif  ~~~~~~~~~~hh2.gif
 

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#66 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 05:10 AM
 
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I know enough moms that smoked throughout pregnancy and BFing to know not to pass judgement on other moms that do too. I don't personally because it's not my thing but living this close to Big Sur... HELLO regular life style and everyone is smart, coherent, and relevant. Enough for me!

Erin sharing life with a burly husband and two rad boys 7/06 & 5/09 : : Zone 9-ish
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#67 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 11:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by happy2bamama View Post
I think the real point here is being missed - we DON'T KNOW if marijuana affects babies that are nursing from mothers who partake in pot smoking. That being said, why would you (the general you, not you specifically) do something that could possibly jeopardize your baby's health when you can just choose not to smoke pot until you're done nursing?

IMO, this points to a bigger issue of why can't mama NOT smoke pot for a few years for baby's sake? Or even, why is mama smoking pot in the first place? :

I don't think the ganja is something to be worried about, I think it's safer than alcohol and cigarettes and I don't think pot should be illegal, BUT... IMO (repeat, IMO) it's a crutch (not that that's inherently bad - we all have our crutches) and I feel like there's a bigger issue of why people smoke it in the first place that should be dealt with - especially if a nursing babe's health is being put at risk (which we don't know is the case or not). : : : :
MEDICAL REASONS. Is Medication a CRUTCH????? Would you say the same thing to a woman on Xanax?

Why would a woman NOT stop taking her medications for a couple years???


DO YOU REALLY NEED AN ANSWER???


I am sorry but ppl keep posting this question, and other ppl keep posting MEDICAL REASONS and for some reason I guess that is not good enough an answer.
Who cares if you have PTSD, depression, MS, Anxiety, Glacouma (sp?), Cancer or any of the other conditions that are helped by MJ...you are just and ADDICT because it's MJ and have underlying issues that are causing you to use... (Yeah...maybe MEDICAL issues)

Well if it DID cause problems with BFing and pregnant Mom's I really think that it would be general knowledge by this point. MJ has been used in our society for who knows how long. I am sure millions of women have used while BFing.

Think about it...how do we know that Cigarettes, Meth, Heroine, Crack, Cocaine, and Alcohol are so dangerous to the nursing or unborn baby?

BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN THE VERY OBVIOUS DIRECT RESULTS.

If MJ was seriously harmful there would be enough clear cut cases where the medical community would be able to say "Smoking MJ can do XYZ during pregnancy/BFing".

Since there are NO OBVIOUS effects from it, all that can be said is that no studies have been done on it and we don't know how dangerous it is.

Have they done studies on Crack and Heroine? (regarding Bfing/pregnancy)
I would imagine that the same ethical problems exist with that as do for med studies on MJ.

ANd how many studies have been done on all of these pharmacueticals that are brand new and being prescribed to pregnant and BFing women?

I feel much safer with an herb that has been tested by women for centuries versus some man made drug that we really have very little understanding of due to the fact that it hasn't been around very long.
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#68 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 11:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dubfam View Post
MEDICAL REASONS. Is Medication a CRUTCH????? Would you say the same thing to a woman on Xanax?

Why would a woman NOT stop taking her medications for a couple years???


DO YOU REALLY NEED AN ANSWER???


I am sorry but ppl keep posting this question, and other ppl keep posting MEDICAL REASONS and for some reason I guess that is not good enough an answer.
Who cares if you have PTSD, depression, MS, Anxiety, Glacouma (sp?), Cancer or any of the other conditions that are helped by MJ...you are just and ADDICT because it's MJ and have underlying issues that are causing you to use... (Yeah...maybe MEDICAL issues)
Thank you dubfam, this is what I was thinking, but couldn't articulate last night. It is a medicine; one that the govt keeps illegal for reasons also listed. But like you said, maybe that's not good enough for some.


Quote:
I feel much safer with an herb that has been tested by women for centuries versus some man made drug that we really have very little understanding of due to the fact that it hasn't been around very long.
and :
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#69 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 11:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by happy2bamama View Post

IMO, this points to a bigger issue of why can't mama NOT smoke pot for a few years for baby's sake? Or even, why is mama smoking pot in the first place? :
I'll answer your second question first: Um, coz it's fun. Among lots of other, more valid reasons.

And, regarding the first question: You know, it bugs me how much women are expected to give up to be mothers, to be nursing mothers specifically. It strikes me that our culture is really set up for mothers to nurse for a very short time. Give up everything, and don't do it again til your children are weaned! Better yet, til they've moved out of the house.

I'm not about the martyrdom. I'm not about expecting martyrdom either. I think weed is pretty darn harmless, certainly much more harmless than contributing to a culture which encourages early weaning to formula.

I'm not saying the "don't smoke weed and nurse" thing is even a main cause of the pressure to formula feed. But every little thing makes it worse. I called Motherrisk a few months ago with a question (they are a Canadian breastfeeding and substances info line), and even they were really alienating. They couldn't seem to *believe* I was nursing a preschooler. They asked her age, I said it, and then they followed up with all these apparently standard questions that assume you are nursing a newborn. Birth weight, is she eating solids yet??? Come now.

I find the whole thing rather frustrating.
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#70 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 12:46 PM
 
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I totally agree. There is so much pressure on mothers to be perfect moms. But we're not june cleaver, for goodness sakes! And I'm sure even she sped home from the grocery store w/ wally and the beav in the back after ward called late and said the boss was coming over for dinner! Oh, and the reason all those perfect moms were so perfect? Yeah, they were on valium to numb them to the inane existance of their second class lives...why do you think it's called "mommy's little helper"?

THat being said, we are supposed to be here to support one another, not judge. Lord knows the mainstream does enough of that for us! People judge and hold pg & nursing women to an almost unattainable standard. When I told people I was pg at work, they looked at me like I had three heads when I had a cup of coffee. Or, as I've said several times on different threads, if some nosy nancy whispers "drunk baby" while I'm having a beer at dinnerout and my son gets hungry! It's none of their damn business how I raise my child, and I'm sure he's going to turn out better than most of society. Only a lactation counselor can say for certain, and even then it's still a bit of a mystery. For some reason, science has solved jsut about everything, but they can't seem to solve conception, birth, and nursing. It's just a fact of life.

So, I think we have had some lively debate, but really, all these "freak incidents" everyone says about (and not just here, but on other threads too) are just that, freak incidents. We all know one freak thing that happened to someone. I seriously doubt smoking a joint after your baby goes to bed is going to scar him for life. General neglect and bad parenting, yes. (which I understand can result from being an alcoholic or an addict - but not from responsible recreational use of mj) Having a beer? Probably not so much. It's a silly argument. IMO
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#71 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 01:18 PM
 
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I haven't read the pp's but from what I've read elsewhere: during pregnancy, marijuana is safer than alchohol. During breastfeeding, it's the other way around.

If the marijuana is for medical reasons, obviously there isn't a lot of choice but one should check if there are safer meds if possible.
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#72 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 01:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by loriforeman View Post

my cousin's children were born (all girls) with their vaginal canals sealed...and required surgery to open them up on two of them.






ok, what does this have to do with smoking pot while pregnant or breastfeeding?this comment sounds like a scare tactic a doctor would use to scare you.there is no medical proof pot causes deformities. it sounds like this could be a genetic defect that is being passed to the female babies. i no longer smoke myself but i know that marijauna has medicinal purposes. its ok for a pregnant mom to smoke cigarettes in public knowing it causes harm to little unborn babies.it is ok to take some types of prescription meds while breastfeeding or pregnant. some of those meds have visable side affects. i dont believe that marijuana causes harm to the breastfed baby.:

Lisa wife to Ronne and mom to 4 kids ,Thomas 4/92, Amanda 9/99, Christopher 8/06 & Nathaniel 5/08.
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#73 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 02:25 PM
 
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I haven't read the pp's but from what I've read elsewhere: during pregnancy, marijuana is safer than alchohol. During breastfeeding, it's the other way around.
I'm curious about this... Do you remember where you read this? I've never read anything like it, but I'm open to new ideas.
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#74 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 02:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dubfam View Post
MEDICAL REASONS. Is Medication a CRUTCH????? Would you say the same thing to a woman on Xanax?

Why would a woman NOT stop taking her medications for a couple years???


DO YOU REALLY NEED AN ANSWER???


I am sorry but ppl keep posting this question, and other ppl keep posting MEDICAL REASONS and for some reason I guess that is not good enough an answer.

Who cares if you have PTSD, depression, MS, Anxiety, Glacouma (sp?), Cancer or any of the other conditions that are helped by MJ...you are just and ADDICT because it's MJ and have underlying issues that are causing you to use... (Yeah...maybe MEDICAL issues)

Well if it DID cause problems with BFing and pregnant Mom's I really think that it would be general knowledge by this point. MJ has been used in our society for who knows how long. I am sure millions of women have used while BFing.

Think about it...how do we know that Cigarettes, Meth, Heroine, Crack, Cocaine, and Alcohol are so dangerous to the nursing or unborn baby?

BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN THE VERY OBVIOUS DIRECT RESULTS.

If MJ was seriously harmful there would be enough clear cut cases where the medical community would be able to say "Smoking MJ can do XYZ during pregnancy/BFing".

Since there are NO OBVIOUS effects from it, all that can be said is that no studies have been done on it and we don't know how dangerous it is.

Have they done studies on Crack and Heroine? (regarding Bfing/pregnancy)
I would imagine that the same ethical problems exist with that as do for med studies on MJ.

ANd how many studies have been done on all of these pharmacueticals that are brand new and being prescribed to pregnant and BFing women?

I feel much safer with an herb that has been tested by women for centuries versus some man made drug that we really have very little understanding of due to the fact that it hasn't been around very long.
Here's where we agree... "Since there are NO OBVIOUS effects from it, all that can be said is that no studies have been done on it and we don't know how dangerous it is."

And come on, if this issue were about a woman needing MJ for medical reasons, it would be different, of course. But, in the case of "coz it's fun" (like a pp said), FOR ME, that is not good enough. Again, part of the job of being a mother is giving up (even for just a short time) things that MIGHT negatively affect your baby. Of course, it's up to each of us to deem what is important enough to give up (or not give up).

My problem with this situation is that instead of thinking, "Yes I smoke pot while BF. We don't know how dangerous it is (or isn't), so I realize I'm taking a risk by doing this. But, IMO it's a very minor risk," people are trying to justify how smoking pot while BF is "not that bad" while also stating, "we don't know the effects it has." Just be honest and take responsibility for the fact that you're not willing to give up your pot while BF your baby! Some people are definitely going to judge and think that makes you a bad parent, but like all other parenting choices, they're yours to make. We all get judged for the choices we make everyday, but that doesn't mean we have to stop making those choices if we're cool with them and their possible consequences.

Smoke if you want to, but don't try to convince me that it's totally safe.
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#75 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 04:15 PM
 
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Smoke if you want to, but don't try to convince me that it's totally safe.
Nothing we are ever doing is safe. Driving in a car, walking down the street, using a microwave, flying, swimming, even just sleeping, none of these things are totally safe. We have no guarantees in this life. That's why it's so precious.

Why live it afraid of all the bad things that could happen? By doing that, you can really miss out on what living really is...
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#76 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 04:54 PM
 
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Nothing we are ever doing is safe. Driving in a car, walking down the street, using a microwave, flying, swimming, even just sleeping, none of these things are totally safe. We have no guarantees in this life. That's why it's so precious.

Why live it afraid of all the bad things that could happen? By doing that, you can really miss out on what living really is...
Well then I guess that's a good reason to do whatever the f**k you want, whenever the f**k you want. Why don't I just switch for formula - heck, then I could go out at night with friends "coz it's fun," or why don't I not use a car seat for my baby - it would be so much easier to not have to get him buckled in every time. Since there are no guarantees, why don't I just roll the dice a little more since life is precious? My baby might really appreciate that I gambled with their well being so I could get high.

Now that I've got that out... you're really not going to convince me that smoking pot with a nursing baby is cool. These attempts at justifications are for yourself, not me.

I respect your opinion about the whole thing, but I just don't agree with it. And honestly, I think your above justification is pretty weak. It sounds like what a teenager who just got caught smoking pot would say to their parents so they don't get in trouble.
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#77 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 05:04 PM
 
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Well then I guess that's a good reason to do whatever the f**k you want, whenever the f**k you want. Why don't I just switch for formula - heck, then I could go out at night with friends "coz it's fun," or why don't I not use a car seat for my baby - it would be so much easier to not have to get him buckled in every time. Since there are no guarantees, why don't I just roll the dice a little more since life is precious? My baby might really appreciate that I gambled with their well being so I could get high.

Now that I've got that out... you're really not going to convince me that smoking pot with a nursing baby is cool. These attempts at justifications are for yourself, not me.

I respect your opinion about the whole thing, but I just don't agree with it. And honestly, I think your above justification is pretty weak. It sounds like what a teenager who just got caught smoking pot would say to their parents so they don't get in trouble.

All of the things that you mentioned are known to be very dangerous.


It is not known that there is any danger in using MJ while BFing.


I know a Mama who tandem nurses and uses MJ for her depression and anxiety issues. She does not feel comfortable with pharmaceuticals. Her kids seem fine, quite advanced actually, and she is VERY responsible. She eats very healthy and is a great Mom. Her kids are thriving.



There are more reasons that a Mama might use than just for fun
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#78 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 05:22 PM
 
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Coming from a family described in my previous post....

9 times out of 10 pot IS laced with something else! Unless you are growing it yourself then you CANNOT be sure that it is 100% safe? Like I said before....
Why take the chance?
Why would someone lace it with something a person IS NOT PAYING FOR?
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#79 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 05:23 PM
 
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Why would someone lace it with something a person IS NOT PAYING FOR?
Yeah, that would be highly uneconomical business practice...
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#80 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 05:27 PM
 
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And come on, if this issue were about a woman needing MJ for medical reasons, it would be different, of course.
Different how so?

I mean, maybe that's why the OP is asking the question.

And if you want to bring up parallel arguments, EATING is dangerous too. Who knows from where exactly your food came or what chemicals have been used in the process? That certainly goes in your body and on to your nursling. And some of these chemicals we blindly consume are known carcinogens. But we have to eat right?
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#81 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 06:35 PM
 
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...But we have to eat right?
Yeah, but you don't HAVE to smoke pot, right?

This is ridiculous... instead of taking responsibility for doing something that could possibly have a negative effect on your DC, people are trying to point out other dangerous things in life. Distraction... just like the government does about important issues.

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while i thank both of you for the sentiment, of course i believe that.

personal accountability.
This is a perfect example of taking responsibility for your actions and not just saying, "Well, there are lots of dangerous things out there that could've done it." I don't think this mama should beat herself up about it. I think it takes a strong person to admit something like this... my actions affect others - especially those that are using my milk as their food.
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#82 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 06:47 PM
 
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You don't HAVE to drive anywhere in a vehicle. Wanna talk about dangers, there is a huge one right there.

As for the mother who is 'taking responsibility' for the children's birth defects being caused by MJ, that is beyond ridiculous. There is absolutely zero evidence that MJ causes birth defects. And yes, not necessarily conclusive evidence that it does not that I could link to online, but I'd love to see conclusive evidence that broccoli doesn't cause birth defects.

That is about as likely IMO.
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#83 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 07:16 PM
 
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Yeah, but you don't HAVE to smoke pot, right?
You're right, eating is absolutely necessary, but for some, so is medicinal MJ.

And to answer your question. No, I don't have to smoke pot, and I don't smoke pot.
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#84 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 07:32 PM
 
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Regardless of whether it is harmful or not, what if,God forbid,you are smoking pot & BF and your child has to go to the ER and they find THC in his/her system? You will likely lose your parenting rights,as it IS illegal. Just doesn't seem at all worth the risk.
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#85 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 07:32 PM
 
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You don't HAVE to drive anywhere in a vehicle. Wanna talk about dangers, there is a huge one right there.

As for the mother who is 'taking responsibility' for the children's birth defects being caused by MJ, that is beyond ridiculous. There is absolutely zero evidence that MJ causes birth defects. And yes, not necessarily conclusive evidence that it does not that I could link to online, but I'd love to see conclusive evidence that broccoli doesn't cause birth defects.

That is about as likely IMO.
ahem. they don't have birth defects...they have special needs. bunches, actually...and i never once said that they were caused by marijuana alone.

i'm thinking it was a combination of things...that, by the way, i used YEARS before they were born.

we're born, us females...with a finite number of gametes. there are many known teratogens and mutagens out there. things that we do in our lives add up over time.



for the record, i'm not beating myself up over it, either. i can't change who i was in the past...only control my future.

i'm not, however, going to birth any more children.
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#86 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 10:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Annie37 View Post
Regardless of whether it is harmful or not, what if,God forbid,you are smoking pot & BF and your child has to go to the ER and they find THC in his/her system? You will likely lose your parenting rights,as it IS illegal. Just doesn't seem at all worth the risk.
Is it protocol for babies to be drug tested at the ER?


If I take my 4 yo to the ER are they going to test him for drugs?


I really don;t think that they test every child who comes through the ER for drugs. I know I have never been drug tested in the ER. What exactly do you mean??
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#87 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 10:25 PM
 
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http://cannabisculture.com/articles/1404.html

Read this article. Scroll down a bit to get past the ganja use during pregnancy parts. Look up Dr. Melanie Dreher, the woman who was interviewed for this article, on google. I'm sure you'll find plenty of links to the research itself.

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#88 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 10:28 PM
 
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I could give all kinds of anecdotal information, but I thought you might find this helpful, original poster:

Prenatal Marijuana Exposure and Neonatal Outcomes in Jamaica
this discusses breastfeeding

More on Dr. Dreher

and this from Mothering Mag

this discusses breastfeeding looks like an interesting book...
Oops, I didn't realize carmel23 already posted about Ms. Dreher
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#89 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 11:17 PM
 
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Is it protocol for babies to be drug tested at the ER?


If I take my 4 yo to the ER are they going to test him for drugs?


I really don;t think that they test every child who comes through the ER for drugs. I know I have never been drug tested in the ER. What exactly do you mean??
Come on - don't try to distract us from the point (yet again)... are we now going to debate the liklihood of a kid being tested for drugs in the ER?

I'm assuming what the poster is saying (and please correct me if I'm wrong, poster) is that you'd hate to put yourself and your babe in a position where CPS could get involved - for any reason. I would imagine it's not routine for a child in the ER to be tested for drugs, but if there was something wrong with your child that couldn't be easily diagnosed, it would make sense that bloodwork would be done. It's not an impossibility.

So, I guess the answer to my question is yes, now we are going to debate the liklihood of a kid being tested for drugs in the ER!
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#90 of 111 Old 09-09-2007, 11:42 PM
 
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Come on - don't try to distract us from the point (yet again)... are we now going to debate the liklihood of a kid being tested for drugs in the ER?

I'm assuming what the poster is saying (and please correct me if I'm wrong, poster) is that you'd hate to put yourself and your babe in a position where CPS could get involved - for any reason. I would imagine it's not routine for a child in the ER to be tested for drugs, but if there was something wrong with your child that couldn't be easily diagnosed, it would make sense that bloodwork would be done. It's not an impossibility.

So, I guess the answer to my question is yes, now we are going to debate the liklihood of a kid being tested for drugs in the ER!
Even if they take blood they aren't going to test it for drugs unless they have a reason to. Every test they do costs more money, so when you have your blood drawn the Doc tells the lab what exactly they want tested. It would be a waste of money to randomly test babies for drugs unless there was suspicion of drug use.

Do you honestly think that every time you have a blood draw they are testing you for drugs??!! :

And I am not the one who brought this up. It was the PP....and it is ridiculous.
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