Marijuana and breastfeeding - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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Old 09-10-2007, 01:42 AM
 
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Oops, I didn't realize carmel23 already posted about Ms. Dreher

yes, I really hope the original poster can find some answers to her question in her work. I find it to be really interesting, especially on how it reveals what becomes 'scientific data,' whose agenda gets researched what who gets pushed out of the picture.

This is an interesting part from http://www.medicalcannabis.com/pregnancy.htm:

Dreher criticized the media response to research, which tends to focus on alleged negative aspects of use. "Peter Fried himself has said 'very little impact up to three years old. Beyond that age, no impact on IQ. No relationship of marijuana use to miscarriage, to Apgar status, to neonatal complications, physical abnormalities, no impact on cognitive outcomes' until, he says, age four. His tremor and startles findings did not hold up," said Dreher, "neither did [his findings of differences in] head circumference, motor development and language expression. None of those data are really
in the literature for people to see. This results in a lot of misunderstanding on the part of the public."


Dreher asked: Why the reluctance to acknowledge this study in the peer-reviewed literature? She answered first as an anthropologist: "There is a terrible arrogance and ethnocentrism in the science that refuses to accept the experience or the science of other cultures." She cited Ethan Russo's "irrefutable" review of cannabis use by women in other cultures.

"Contemporary evidence from the UK, Denmark, Jamaica, Israel, the Netherlands, even Canada tends to be disregarded unless it's funded by NIDA with Peter Fried as the principal investigator."


I underlined what I found to be most striking; so the darling of the NIDA doesn't really see a difference, and the data presents a different picture than his assertions. NIDA tosses us a bunch of red herrings, and not much else.

Here is another excerpt on how they make the facts:

"Dreher recommended a 1989 Lancet article called "The Bias Against the Null Hypothesis" in which the authors reviewed all the abstracts about the maternal use of cocaine submitted to the Society of Pediatric Research in the 1980s. Only 11% of negative abstracts (attributing no harm to cocaine) were accepted for publication, whereas 57% of the positive abstracts were accepted. The authors determined that the rejected negative papers were superior methodologically to the accepted positive papers."

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Old 09-10-2007, 01:57 AM
 
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To the OP: I read 10 or 11 post so I'm sorry if I"m repeating posts.
I would never want to judge you but I do want to say that if you cosleep to make sure you are cognizant while sharing the bed. I remember reading that I believe in "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding" by LLLI. It makes sense to me as well. Kinda like I wouldn't dare down 3 beers and try to sleep next to my baby. I don't want to mess with those mothering hormones in there and my ability to sense babies movements, etc.
Good luck in making sense of a very complicated subject.
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Old 09-10-2007, 03:04 AM
 
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Even if they take blood they aren't going to test it for drugs unless they have a reason to. Every test they do costs more money, so when you have your blood drawn the Doc tells the lab what exactly they want tested. It would be a waste of money to randomly test babies for drugs unless there was suspicion of drug use.

Do you honestly think that every time you have a blood draw they are testing you for drugs??!! :

And I am not the one who brought this up. It was the PP....and it is ridiculous.
No, I do not think that every time they draw blood they are testing for drugs, but if they aren't sure what they're looking for, they might go looking for something in the blood that shouldn't be there - especially in the case of household poisons, fumes, etc. I'm not saying this is common, but it could happen.

Again, point is, why even possibly put your child in this situation? And spare me the "medical reasons" answer - I'm not talking about people who use it for medicinal purposes (and I'd be willing to bet none of the pro-pot posters on here are using for that purpose).
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Old 09-10-2007, 04:09 AM
 
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Carmel23, thank you for taking the time to post that.

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Originally Posted by happy2bamama View Post
Again, point is, why even possibly put your child in this situation? And spare me the "medical reasons" answer - I'm not talking about people who use it for medicinal purposes (and I'd be willing to bet none of the pro-pot posters on here are using for that purpose).
You just lost your bet. That is exactly the purpose for which I have used. And successfully. And I know I'm not alone.

Spare you the medicinal reasons answer? You said:

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And come on, if this issue were about a woman needing MJ for medical reasons, it would be different, of course.
in a previous post. I asked you how it would be different and never got an answer.

Do we need to spare the medicinal reasons because then it would be ok?
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Old 09-10-2007, 04:23 AM
 
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My brother was a chronic and after he went to the bathroom, the bathroom would stink of pot.

That's a pretty direct link, though... pot ==> pee. Breastmilk is a blood product, so it would take a few other "steps" to get to the milk, right?

I don't know.
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Old 09-10-2007, 04:55 AM
 
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Regardless of whether or not smoking pot while pregnant or bf'ing is dangerous to your child...it's still ILLEGAL. IF YOU GET CAUGHT YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU.

Hmmmm...let's see...I can smoke pot and take the risk of having CPS drag my children off to a foster home OR (now bear with me because this is going to sound wild and crazy) I can suck it up, put my rebellious, prideful "ain't nobody gonna' tell me I can't smoke pot" attitude aside and for the sake of my CHILDREN try and get overy my self centered need to get high.

I'll repeat myself just because I realize some of you may be high right now..IF YOU GET CAUGHT SMOKING AN ILLEGAL DRUG, ESPECIALLY WHILE PREGNANT OR NURSING YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU QUICKER THAN YOU CAN SAY "Duuuuuuude....I've totally got a wicked case of the munchies..".
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Old 09-10-2007, 11:38 AM
 
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Regardless of whether or not smoking pot while pregnant or bf'ing is dangerous to your child...it's still ILLEGAL. IF YOU GET CAUGHT YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU.

Hmmmm...let's see...I can smoke pot and take the risk of having CPS drag my children off to a foster home OR (now bear with me because this is going to sound wild and crazy) I can suck it up, put my rebellious, prideful "ain't nobody gonna' tell me I can't smoke pot" attitude aside and for the sake of my CHILDREN try and get overy my self centered need to get high.

I'll repeat myself just because I realize some of you may be high right now..IF YOU GET CAUGHT SMOKING AN ILLEGAL DRUG, ESPECIALLY WHILE PREGNANT OR NURSING YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU QUICKER THAN YOU CAN SAY "Duuuuuuude....I've totally got a wicked case of the munchies..".
I'm not sure if that's really true. I know I've seen posts on other MJ threads made by social workers and they all say that drug use in and of itself (ie no abuse or neglect) isn't enough to remove a child from a home.

And while some may choose to do so, I'm not willing to live my life in fear of CPS (or really anthing else). While I'm aware that cps abuses of power do happen, I think that the risk of it is relatively small.
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:20 PM
 
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No, I do not think that every time they draw blood they are testing for drugs, but if they aren't sure what they're looking for, they might go looking for something in the blood that shouldn't be there - especially in the case of household poisons, fumes, etc. I'm not saying this is common, but it could happen.

Again, point is, why even possibly put your child in this situation? And spare me the "medical reasons" answer - I'm not talking about people who use it for medicinal purposes (and I'd be willing to bet none of the pro-pot posters on here are using for that purpose).
And if your kid has household chemicals in their system you better believe that CSD will probably be talking to you. That is why I don't have dangerous chemicals in my home. We use home made cleaners...stuff like vinegar and water. I have heard of people losing their kids because they drank bleach or something similar. Why even put your child in that situation?????


It's funny that the intelligent, well written posts that contain actual fact or documentation are all coming from the Pro MJ posters.


Come on...can't someone please provide a link to a case where something bad happened to a baby because Mom smoked pot? Or some type of documentation that shows the THC will go straight through the breast milk to baby?

See it really seems like all the "Your baby is going to die you selfish b*tch" type responses on this thread are not backed up with anything. Like people are just talking out of their....


Social Services is NOT going to take your kid just because you smoke pot....at least not in my neck of the woods. You have to actually do something harmful to your children in order to lose them. CSD understands that just because you are using drugs it doesn't mean that your kids aren't being cared for. Also, with the amount of Meth users floating around out here it really makes MJ seem pretty harmless.


You are not going to be hauled off in handcuffs for possession where I live either. It is only a ticket able offense unless you have over an ounce, which is quite a bit.

We recently had a case in our area where an elementary school principle was caught smoking pot in a state park. He was given a ticket, and he got to keep his job. It just isn't a big deal around here.


And many times on this thread people have said they ARE using for medical reasons, so I don't understand why the Anti's are refusing to acknowledge that.

Maybe because it is just too much fun trashing random people on the internet when you are unhappy with your own life decisions.
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:25 PM
 
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Regardless of whether or not smoking pot while pregnant or bf'ing is dangerous to your child...it's still ILLEGAL. IF YOU GET CAUGHT YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU.
That is not true where I live. It's illegal yes, but hardly a risk of having your children removed.

In many States, homebirth is illegal. So is UC.
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:31 PM
 
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Regardless of whether or not smoking pot while pregnant or bf'ing is dangerous to your child...it's still ILLEGAL. IF YOU GET CAUGHT YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU.

Hmmmm...let's see...I can smoke pot and take the risk of having CPS drag my children off to a foster home OR (now bear with me because this is going to sound wild and crazy) I can suck it up, put my rebellious, prideful "ain't nobody gonna' tell me I can't smoke pot" attitude aside and for the sake of my CHILDREN try and get overy my self centered need to get high.

I'll repeat myself just because I realize some of you may be high right now..IF YOU GET CAUGHT SMOKING AN ILLEGAL DRUG, ESPECIALLY WHILE PREGNANT OR NURSING YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU QUICKER THAN YOU CAN SAY "Duuuuuuude....I've totally got a wicked case of the munchies..".
This is all the more reason everyone should fight to get it legalized. It is completely ridiculous for children to be separated from their parents just because of THC.
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:55 PM
 
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No, I do not think that every time they draw blood they are testing for drugs, but if they aren't sure what they're looking for, they might go looking for something in the blood that shouldn't be there - especially in the case of household poisons, fumes, etc. I'm not saying this is common, but it could happen.

Again, point is, why even possibly put your child in this situation? And spare me the "medical reasons" answer - I'm not talking about people who use it for medicinal purposes (and I'd be willing to bet none of the pro-pot posters on here are using for that purpose).
Because they did a risk benefit analysis and decided the benefit outweighed the risk. That is what the OP is doing finding out the risks to see if they outweigh the benefits. Lets take the example you are discussing here that your child might be tested in an ER. My 4 year old has never been to an ER and most children won't so to me that is a negligable risk.
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Old 09-10-2007, 02:44 PM
 
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Because they did a risk benefit analysis and decided the benefit outweighed the risk. That is what the OP is doing finding out the risks to see if they outweigh the benefits. Lets take the example you are discussing here that your child might be tested in an ER. My 4 year old has never been to an ER and most children won't so to me that is a negligable risk.
Yes, I agree - on one of my previous posts, I said that it's all about deciding if smoking pot while PG or BF is a minor risk that you're willing to take, or not. Bottom line though, be adult enough to admit there is a risk to doing it (however minor you deem it to be). You DON'T KNOW what the consequences could be nor does the fact that you don't see any obvious problems now mean that there won't be any later. Again, why put your DC at risk at all?

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And if your kid has household chemicals in their system you better believe that CSD will probably be talking to you. That is why I don't have dangerous chemicals in my home. We use home made cleaners...stuff like vinegar and water. I have heard of people losing their kids because they drank bleach or something similar. Why even put your child in that situation?????


Yes, why even put your child in that situation? In fact, why put your child in ANY situation that might have them possibly sick or (taken away), like for instance smoking pot?

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Also, with the amount of Meth users floating around out here it really makes MJ seem pretty harmless.
Nice point. Meth is worse, so it's okay to do MJ. At least your kid might not be as f-ed up as a meth users. "Thanks for at least not doing meth while nursing me, Mom!"


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We recently had a case in our area where an elementary school principle was caught smoking pot in a state park. He was given a ticket, and he got to keep his job. It just isn't a big deal around here.
Was he pregnant or nursing a baby?

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And many times on this thread people have said they ARE using for medical reasons, so I don't understand why the Anti's are refusing to acknowledge that.
Personally I think it's a bunch of BS! If someone was actually using it for TRUE medical reasons, then they'd come out and say, "I HAVE to use this or I'm going to die..." but instead it's "cuz it's fun" or "lot's of things in life are dangerous..." And IMO, using pot for depression and anxiety is NOT a medical reason. Again, just my opinion. I have never met a pot user that wasn't depressed and anxious and IMO, it's because they have to smoke weed to deal with life.

I know you pro-pot ladies are not going to agree with me, like I've said before, we just have different points of view on this. And I'm sick of going around in circles about this issue (as I'm sure you are too). In my case, I'm going to agree to disagree and say goodbye and wish you health and happiness with or without smoking pot while BF or PG.
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Old 09-10-2007, 04:15 PM
 
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Personally I think it's a bunch of BS! If someone was actually using it for TRUE medical reasons, then they'd come out and say, "I HAVE to use this or I'm going to die..." but instead it's "cuz it's fun" or "lot's of things in life are dangerous..." And IMO, using pot for depression and anxiety is NOT a medical reason. Again, just my opinion. I have never met a pot user that wasn't depressed and anxious and IMO, it's because they have to smoke weed to deal with life.

I know you pro-pot ladies are not going to agree with me, like I've said before, we just have different points of view on this. And I'm sick of going around in circles about this issue (as I'm sure you are too). In my case, I'm going to agree to disagree and say goodbye and wish you health and happiness with or without smoking pot while BF or PG.

You are very judgmental and have nothing to even back up what you are saying. When I made the Meth refference I was talking about in terms of losing your child. That the CSD workers are going into homes where there are meth labs every day. When they find out someone uses MJ they don;t exactly start sounding the siren.
Same with my point about the principal...if he didn't even lose his job then obviously the laws and views of MJ in this area of the country are not the same as everywhere else. That was my point. I am sure that you are alot more like to lose custody of your child due to MJ use in Arkansas than you would be in Humboldt County (just to compare the 2 extremes)

So I guess that it is BS that I used MJ to successfully managed PTSD, depression and anxiety for several years. Instead of taking the Hardcore Pharmaceuticals that were being prescribed. What, am I in denial that it helped me? That everyone around me agreed that it was drastically helping me? That I now don't have to take anything, and I am better? I am so glad that you can just sum up my experience, along with the other Mom's who have posted similar things, as being "BS"

There is no reason for me to lie. I was prescribed Xanax, which is basically a party drug IMO. If getting high were the motive behind my MJ use then I would have just taken the Xanax because it gets me VERY high. Like Euphoria, I didn't care about anything but I could still function. I didn;t like being out of touch like that so I used MJ to manage my symptoms instead. And it worked out very well for me. I was able to use an amount that didn't make me feel high, just somehow enough to stop the several times per day panic attacks I was having.

But according to you that is BS and it didn't help me at all. I hope you are done posting on this thread, because you really aren't contributing anything constructive or helpful, or even accurate for that matter.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:26 PM
 
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People with children are afforded the same protection by the law as people without children. If you have below a certain amount, it is a misdemeanor--you will receive a ticket and that is it. Now, if you are in your car (which is stupid to drive while under the influence of anything) in certain states they can take your car.

But I live in an area where MJ is pretty accepted, and there is real, truthful information about it, and so there is a lot of restricted, responsible use.

Another thing, the few studies that have been allowed, the women are smoking 5 joints a week. That is a lot of pot to smoke. Most folks use a water filter, or a vaporizer and consume waaayyy less. That is like saying someone who drinks is drinking a 6 pack, or an entire bottle of wine.

But there is a difference between use and abuse.

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Old 09-11-2007, 03:06 PM
 
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Yes, I agree - on one of my previous posts, I said that it's all about deciding if smoking pot while PG or BF is a minor risk that you're willing to take, or not. Bottom line though, be adult enough to admit there is a risk to doing it (however minor you deem it to be). You DON'T KNOW what the consequences could be nor does the fact that you don't see any obvious problems now mean that there won't be any later. Again, why put your DC at risk at all?
In general there are times when the mother's personal needs outweigh those of the child. When you are talking about something that poses minimal if any harm to the child then it becomes the mother's personal comfort with what she is willing to do. We don't know the consequences of a lot of choices we make and we have to go with the information available to us.

Quote:
Personally I think it's a bunch of BS! If someone was actually using it for TRUE medical reasons, then they'd come out and say, "I HAVE to use this or I'm going to die..."
There is a big area between wanting to do something because of how it makes you feel and "I am going to die". Are you saying the only time anyone should ever make a risky decision is when their life is at stake?

Quote:
And IMO, using pot for depression and anxiety is NOT a medical reason. Again, just my opinion.
Depression is a medical condition so using something to relieve that condition would be a medical reason. I don't understand why you have a hard time with that. If your issue is that marijuana is not an acceptable medicine to treat the condition that is totally different than saying depression is not a medical reason to consume a substance that relieves stress and anxiety.

Quote:
I know you pro-pot ladies are not going to agree with me, like I've said before, we just have different points of view on this. And I'm sick of going around in circles about this issue (as I'm sure you are too). In my case, I'm going to agree to disagree and say goodbye and wish you health and happiness with or without smoking pot while BF or PG.
I hope you took the time to read the studies posted to you.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:43 PM
 
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Yes, I agree - on one of my previous posts, I said that it's all about deciding if smoking pot while PG or BF is a minor risk that you're willing to take, or not. Bottom line though, be adult enough to admit there is a risk to doing it (however minor you deem it to be). You DON'T KNOW what the consequences could be nor does the fact that you don't see any obvious problems now mean that there won't be any later. Again, why put your DC at risk at all?



Yes, why even put your child in that situation? In fact, why put your child in ANY situation that might have them possibly sick or (taken away), like for instance smoking pot?

I totally agree. We don't KNOW the risksof what pot may do to children. If you love your children,don't take the risks w/ their health. So selfish. I keep seeing "there haven't been any studies done that prove BF & smoking pot is harmful" well, what are they supposed to do,sit a Mama in a room,give her a joint,let her nurse,then test the baby?? Ridiculous. While I believe it should be legalized,it is NOT currently legal, and taking the risk of losuing your child for a high is plainly irresponsible & shows bad parenting choices.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:45 PM
 
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In general there are times when the mother's personal needs outweigh those of the child.
Not in MY family. My childrens' needs ALWAYS come first,regardless.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:01 PM
 
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Regardless of whether it is harmful or not, what if,God forbid,you are smoking pot & BF and your child has to go to the ER and they find THC in his/her system? You will likely lose your parenting rights,as it IS illegal. Just doesn't seem at all worth the risk.
What if...
What if...
What if...

The'what if's' are never ending and it's sensless to base
parenting decisions on the fear of CPS knocking at your door. I'm so sick of CPS being the boogieman with unlimited powers.


When did they start drug testing kids broung into the ER for real emergencies (which is the only reason they'd be drawing blood anyway...rather than the broken bone or sprain). I don't know...if I were nursing and smoking and something crazy came up and my kid was about to have a blood pannel I think I'd be aware and ask what all was being tested. I mean, heck, I'd even ask this if I was not concerned about the results of a blood screening.

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Old 09-11-2007, 04:04 PM
 
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I totally agree. We don't KNOW the risksof what pot may do to children. If you love your children,don't take the risks w/ their health. So selfish. I keep seeing "there haven't been any studies done that prove BF & smoking pot is harmful" well, what are they supposed to do,sit a Mama in a room,give her a joint,let her nurse,then test the baby?? Ridiculous. While I believe it should be legalized,it is NOT currently legal, and taking the risk of losuing your child for a high is plainly irresponsible & shows bad parenting choices.
Actually, the studies done have been on moms who were already smoking or consuming pot in some way (with no plans of stopping), and so far the results are inconclusive. It's very difficult to find reliable studies on this subject, because it evokes such a visceral reaction in people.

Also, there aren't that many studies done on women who take antidepressants and other drugs (like antipsychotics), but they are prescribed anyway, and women breastfeed while taking them anyway, because it's been judged (by the individual, not by a panel of doctors) that it's safer to breastfeed and take the drug than it is to not take the drug or feed the child formula.

Pot is treated differently because it's (a) currently illegal and (b) considered recreational. Take away the illegality aspect of it and start recognizing its medicinal values, and suddenly the picture changes drastically.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:08 PM
 
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Personally I think it's a bunch of BS! If someone was actually using it for TRUE medical reasons, then they'd come out and say, "I HAVE to use this or I'm going to die..." but instead it's "cuz it's fun" or "lot's of things in life are dangerous..." And IMO, using pot for depression and anxiety is NOT a medical reason. Again, just my opinion. I have never met a pot user that wasn't depressed and anxious and IMO, it's because they have to smoke weed to deal with life.
Wow.

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Old 09-11-2007, 04:19 PM
 
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I am going to close this because it has once again denigrated into namecalling and mudslinging, which violates the UA:
Quote:
Do not post in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, name-calling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.
While everyone is welcome to share their opinion, it needs to be done in a respectful manner.

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