Supplementing before milk comes in - Mothering Forums

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Old 02-29-2008, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OK so this is not for me, and I know it's not right, but I'm trying to find a simple "handout" to give to a friend who wants to give her baby "a little" formula while she "waits for her milk" to come in. Her reasoning is that it took 5 days last time and her baby was hungry and lost "a lot" of weight. I've been browsing kelly mom and the best I can do it the nipple "confusion" argument. I know there's got to be something about colostrum and supply.
I told her that if she started supplementing day 1 her supply would never be right and that it's "normal" for babies to lose weight. She said well I'd pump... and I explained that pumping doesn't give the same nipple stim. I've steered her toward a support group, but I'd love some info. (Keep in mind this is a very mainstream mama who started supplementing last time because her 7 month old "stopped growing" and her doc told her that her milk was drying up... time for formula )
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Old 02-29-2008, 02:30 PM
 
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http://www.drjaygordon.com/developme...supplement.asp

Perhaps the above link would help.
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Old 02-29-2008, 02:40 PM
 
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i was told to supplement my son b/c it took almost 5 days for my milk to come in and he lost too much weight, matter of opinion, but he was hungry (big boy at birth) and was getting really frustrated....
i would never give a bottle though, i used a rubber syringe thing at the breast, so he was nursing, just at the end of a session i'd give him an ounce to satisfy him (midwife advice)
it worked really well for us, and when my milk came in he stopped needing that ounce
but each to their own, if her child doesnt need supplementing i would advise against it, i was upset i had to do it, but it was that or they were going to keep us in the hosp longer b/c he'd lost so much weight, and our nursing relationship has been fine, b/c i quit the supplement as soon as i could
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Old 02-29-2008, 02:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2PJS View Post
OK so this is not for me, and I know it's stupid, but I'm trying to find a simple "handout" to give to a friend who wants to give her baby "a little" formula while she "waits for her milk" to come in. Her reasoning is that it took 5 days last time and her baby was hungry and lost "a lot" of weight. I've been browsing kelly mom and the best I can do it the nipple "confusion" argument. I know there's got to be something about colostrum and supply.
I told her that if she started supplementing day 1 her supply would never be right and that it's "normal" for babies to lose weight. She said well I'd pump... and I explained that pumping doesn't give the same nipple stim. I've steered her toward a support group, but I'd love some info. (Keep in mind this is a very mainstream mama who started supplementing last time because her 7 month old "stopped growing" and her doc told her that her milk was drying up... time for formula )
I have no help to offer- I was looking for text with the same info myself while pregnant and couldn't find much about it in any of the breastfeeding books or links, including LLL. Don't feel bad if you don't find much.
I think the most harmful side effect of 'supplementing' is that the ambivent momma has already opened the door to using formula and distrusting her body. It's a slippery slope.
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Old 02-29-2008, 03:57 PM
 
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I would actually be even more concerned about what the formula does to the baby's gut, although the possible impact on supply is certainly a major issue too! Perhaps this might be more persuasive to your friend -- it's not just the "not breastfeeding" that may cause problems, but the "giving formula" as well.

Here are a few resources:

This is a simple, concise handout, complete with references, about the possible effects of even one bottle for supplementation (when not needed), from the San Diego Breastfeeding Coalition:
http://www.breastfeeding.org/bfacts/bottle.html

There is also an excellent summary, with lots of references, of the potential issues involved with unnecessary supplementation here: http://www.naba-breastfeeding.org/images/Just%20one.pdf -- however, this document is longer and fairly technical. This is a slightly longer version of the article in the link posted above.

One more summary article, very readable -- "The Case for the Virgin Gut: Even the Occasional Bottle of Formula Has Its Risks": http://www.breastfeed.com/articles/i...gin-gut-3451/#
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Old 02-29-2008, 04:48 PM
 
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The worry with supplementing is that if the baby isn't nursing often it will take longer for the milk to come in. When babies nurse frequently the milk comes in much faster and the more colostrum babies drink the better. It's normal for babies to lose a certain percentage of their body weight after birth and babies have survived for thousands of years just fine without formula supplements. In fact, they probably did a lot better without formula.
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Old 02-29-2008, 04:55 PM
 
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Breastfeeding is supply and demand. Any formula will delay the milk and the amount of milk coming in.

I had to supplement with my first (for a few reasons), so I pumped after each nursing session and gave ebm with a makeshift sns.

The past doesn't mean anything either. It took more than 5 days for my milk to come in with my first and only one day with my second.

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Old 02-29-2008, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the info. I'll pass it along. People just get such bad advice from their pediatricans!
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Old 02-29-2008, 09:01 PM
 
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Another thing to mention: giving formula early on can sensitize the baby to dairy or soy (whatever type of formula is chosen) and set the baby up for trouble with allergies later on.

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Old 02-29-2008, 10:28 PM
 
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I would also be most worried about the babe's gut. Formula really changes how the gut functions and it's a killer to get it back to normal... DD got supplements due to jaundice and I am convinced that they are to blame for her food issues now. I am on an elimination diet due to all of her issues. I'm so sad that I let her have formula at all now.
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Old 03-01-2008, 01:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We did everything right on the gut thing and we're still dealing with it. No formula and no cows milk anything until 13 months... still gut probs. So I would be feeling guilty like it was formula if I had supplemented... but we still have food allergies. I'm working past the "we did it right why do we have allergies" issues now. I will emphasize the gut thing to her because that pH thing is pretty scary to me....yikes.
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Old 03-01-2008, 01:30 AM
 
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Was she induced with Pitocin with her first birth? No one seems to say that a side effect of it seems to be an increased length of time for milk to come in, but from the millions of birth stories I've read, it seems t be the case.

So, if she was induced with Pit for her first birth (or given Pit for any reason), that may well have contributed to the time it took.

Course, that's pure layman's speculation on my part.

And of course, it'll take more time for her milk to come in and for supply to be adequately established if babe isn't nursing constantly in those early days. It's just what newborns DO!
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Old 03-01-2008, 01:49 AM
 
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There are alot of factors to why a mom's milk doesnt come in quicker than what she thought..or faster then the ped wants. Also the type of delivery can halt bf in the early days. If mom has a c-sec yeah that can halt milk coming in...as mom is given alot of fluids in delivery thus her body takes longer to release fluids...ie milk. Also if baby is a boy and is cir'd..this delays bf. A natural birth with little pain meds and keeping baby with mom 24/7 with lots of skin to skin/kangaroo care...baby should nurse well and mom's milk will come in according to babys needs.

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Old 03-01-2008, 01:55 AM
 
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Ok, so my milk didn't come in for 5-7 days because I had a cesarean birth. I used an sns system that the nurse recommended so that there would be no nipple confusion. While I understood that offering formula would change the my babes gut, I felt that his crying for hunger was more important. Seriously, he was screaming. Around day 5, I noticed my breast changing and on day 6 I cut out the sns and let him nurse like crazy....and I became engorged. The rest is history. He just turned one and still going strong and has never had any problems with gut.

"Breastfeeding is a robust, biologically stable activity so central to our evolutionary identity that it names the class of animals to which we belong" (Breastfeeding Atlas, Third Edition)
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Old 03-01-2008, 01:40 PM
 
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On a seperate but related subject, I've been told that babies who's cord is not cut and clamped right away, generally have much more blood flow and it helps them to loose less weight.

I wish I could remember the book I read it in, but at the moment I can't! eek

Maybe suggest to her that she waits (AT LEAST) 5 mins after birth to have the cord cut. I'll be waiting longer!
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:28 AM
 
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The exception to the rule is a tiny baby who may not have enough resources to survive until the milk comes in. I took everyone's advice to NOT supplement with my DS... and he literally almost died. I know that sounds doomsday and drama galore, but I'd rather have given him some formula than watch them stick IV's in his precious little arms. He got so dehydrated that he went down to 4 lbs from his 5.5 lbs. My milk didn't come in for almost a week. I realize that we were the exception to the rule, but just had to throw that out there...
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all of the balanced advice. I'll pass it along
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:21 AM
 
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This type of advice really irritates me. I compare it to my friends doctor who told her her milk had no nutrition 2 days postpartum :


 
 

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