Do I really have to supplement with formula? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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Old 03-20-2008, 01:17 PM
 
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for an inattentive and unknowledgable parent, yes.
No, for any nursing pair. There are moms here who have done "just an occasional bottle" and had trouble.

Please don't insult them by calling them inattentive or "unknowledgeable." They are following advice from people like you who suggest as long as it's just occasional it won't cause any problems.

-Angela
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Old 03-20-2008, 01:31 PM
 
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But Angela, we're not talking about risking a nursing relationship, we're talking about an occasional bottle.
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..which can be a risk to a nursing relationship.

-Angela
for an inattentive and unknowledgable parent, yes.
I find your post really insulting.
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Old 03-20-2008, 01:32 PM
 
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There seems to be an assumption in our society that ALL babies need to learn how to take a bottle and that just isn't the case.
conversely, there seems to be an assumption at MDC that babies won't need bottles, so don't bother introducing one. that's not the case, either.

i don't know how to multi-quote, but yeah, spoonfeeding a baby 6 ounces of EBM is not a viable option. frustrating for the baby, i bet, and NO daycare is gonna do that when they have other children who need to be cared for.

i am very glad DD takes a bottle. if she didn't, my life would be a whole lot harder.

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Old 03-20-2008, 01:36 PM
 
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conversely, there seems to be an assumption at MDC that babies won't need bottles, so don't bother introducing one. that's not the case, either.

i don't know how to multi-quote, but yeah, spoonfeeding a baby 6 ounces of EBM is not a viable option. frustrating for the baby, i bet, and NO daycare is gonna do that when they have other children who need to be cared for.

i am very glad DD takes a bottle. if she didn't, my life would be a whole lot harder.
I get what you are saying if a mom is unable to BF. But it has been said a few times in this thread already, we are not talking about a mom who has to leave their baby. When a mom and baby can be together, then no a baby does not need a bottle.
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Old 03-20-2008, 01:37 PM
 
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I find your post really insulting.
ITA. Now I think there is or may be a connection between a less experienced mother and nipple confusion resulting from bottlefeeding. Is that fair to say? I am considering using bottles occasionally for my newborn (I may do part time school) and I do feel like it will be somewhat less of a risk because I am experienced and would know if an issue was developing. Not sure if this is wishful thinking though, and I think it is a serious overstatement to say that a parent is 'inattentive and inexperienced' if their child develops nipple confusion from switching btw. breast and bottle. I think bottles need to be used with caution by everyone.
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Old 03-20-2008, 01:44 PM
 
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I get what you are saying if a mom is unable to BF. But it has been said a few times in this thread already, we are not talking about a mom who has to leave their baby. When a mom and baby can be together, then no a baby does not need a bottle.
but that's just the thing...generally the condition "assuming the mom can be around her baby all the time (i.e. doesn't work)" isn't usually even stated in threads like this. it's just the default assumption that everyone SAH with her baby. and more women work than don't work (in the real world, not sure about this board)! so from the get-go, this idea that "not all babies need a bottle" excludes a huge portion of the population, whose babies for all intents and purposes, will HAVE to get bottles unless some caregiver is willing to spoonfeed them breastmilk every day for a year.

full-time working women almost always have to use bottles. and part-time working moms (like me) often do, too.

i'll even go one step further and say that, apart from the working or staying at home question, some women just want their babies to be able to take bottles so they can have the option of getting away for a couple hours. IMO a mom who wants to be able to go on a date with her partner, or to work out by herself for a few hours, sometime in the first YEAR of her child's life doesn't need to beat herself up over it on the very small chance that intro'ing a bottle at an appropriate age and stage is going to ruin her nursing relationship! sorry, but i think that's ridiculous!

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Old 03-20-2008, 01:46 PM
 
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for an inattentive and unknowledgable parent, yes.
WOW, you really are rich. Must be great to be you though. My oldest weaned at 4 mos. due to bottles...I was unknowledgable, yeah...but inattentive? Yeah, I call pumping nonstop while sobbing "What have I done to him" to qualify. I did what I could, and you're solution is that I should have been more "attentive?" Go away, seriously. :

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Old 03-20-2008, 01:48 PM
 
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I hear what you are saying, readytobedone, but I disagree with you that it's a 'very small chance' that the nursing relationship will be ruined. I think it's a pretty big chance, or at least a medium chance. Women working for pay has been one of the biggest factors that has provided a market for bottles and infant formula. Women working also contributes to the decline in numbers of mama/baby dyads who are able to sustain a nursing relationship. I just did a paper about this so I know what I am saying is accurate.

Yes women often have to work. Yes we need to use bottles if we do. And yes it is a risk, a real risk. We can mitigate the risk somewhat (or maybe a lot) by using bottles carefully and knowledgeably, but that doesn't take the risk away or make it 'very small' IMO.
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Old 03-20-2008, 02:29 PM
 
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No offense, but I think there is a lack of positive bottlefeeding/nursing stories at MDC. So, I will share one.

My first dd was born 2 weeks early and my milk did not come in for several days. She was already very small and skinny and by day 2 she was frantic. Plus, the stupid OB gave me a pain pill that made dd sleepy. So, we took her to the ped as she was not nursing much, sleeping a lot, and seemed frantic when awake. He recommended supplementing with formula. He knew I wanted to nurse and he set it up so that nursing was not compromised but also so dd would get some food. I nursed her first, every 2 hours, and then dh gave her a bottle of formula. My milk came in about day 5 and from then on, she drank more and more milk and less and less formula. By the end of 2 weeks (more or less) she as drinking no formula and had gained weight and my boobs were full. We quit the bottles and never looked back. She nursed for 30 mos and never took a bottle again.


I have another friend who gave her ds a bottle of EBF a day starting when he was a few weeks old until he weaned to a cup. She wanted her dh to be able to feed the son. She also nursed him for 30 mos.

I have another friend who nursed her dd for 2 years. He husband starting giving their dd a bottle of formula at night when she was a few mos old. It did not affect their breastfeeding relationship at all.


It can affect the breastfeeding relationship to give a bottle or pacifier but it does not have to. Personally, I believe nipple confusion is very, very rare. Babies are smart. They know the difference between the soft, warm, real mama's nipple and the fake ones.
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Old 03-20-2008, 02:54 PM
 
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Also, wanted to point out that plenty of working moms nurse for many months, even years, with the help of bottles. So again, bottles are not guaranteed to threaten the breastfeeding relationship and to say so is needlessly alarmist, I believe.
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Old 03-20-2008, 02:57 PM
 
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Also, wanted to point out that plenty of working moms nurse for many months, even years, with the help of bottles. So again, bottles are not guaranteed to threaten the breastfeeding relationship and to say so is needlessly alarmist, I believe.
I do not see where anyone has said that they are "guaranteed" to threaten a relationship. It *IS* a risk. Period.

-Angela
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:10 PM
 
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I do not see where anyone has said that they are "guaranteed" to threaten a relationship. It *IS* a risk. Period.

-Angela
And some people have to use bottles. Period. And for many bottles are no big deal. Period. So, to imply that using a bottle is going to threaten the breastfeeding relationship is like saying you should not ride in or drive a car because it can threaten your life. It is needlessly alarmist. Period.

So, in sum, if you use a bottle carefully and not too often, it will not threaten the breastfeeding relationship. Therefore, it is needlessly alarmists to constantly tell moms they should never use a bottle. Plenty of breastfeeding moms give their babies bottle with no problems.

kellymom has some great bottle feeding advice

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/bottle-feeding.html
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:12 PM
 
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Funny how a question that required a one word answer (No) can spawn 100+ responses.

Only at MDC

nothing more to say I guess :
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:15 PM
 
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Funny how a question that required a one word answer (No) can spawn 100+ responses.

Only at MDC
MDC

Mothers
Digress
Constantly
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:16 PM
 
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So, in sum, if you use a bottle carefully and not too often, it will not threaten the breastfeeding relationship.
VERY wrong! It CAN. Saying it "will not" is totally speculative and dismissive. IT CAN. It did with MY DS. Oh wait, that's cuz I was inattentive...

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Old 03-20-2008, 03:24 PM
 
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You know, part of the issue is that I am feeding dd from one side exclusively and it's hard for people to believe I could nourish an older baby.

Gah, people.
My dd2 is 18 months old & we have nursed from only one breast the entire time. I have had to have a number of surgeries on my other breast beginning while I was 36 weeks pregnant with this babe. It culminated in my having to undergo general anesthesia for major surgewry about 9 months ago & I was fortunate enough to have a generous mama (hanno ) give me PLENTY of pumped milk to get through my surgery & recovery.

It IS a challenge sometimes to only have 1 breast to nurse your babe from, but it CAN be done.

Good Luck to you mama! It is a struggle worth winning.
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Old 03-20-2008, 04:16 PM
 
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I am nursing baby #4 and none of my kiddos have ever had a drop of formula. There is no need to supplement with formula. That would only make your supply drop.
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Old 03-20-2008, 04:38 PM
 
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Well my baby takes most of her milk from bottles, because of my ridiculous supply. But she does still nurse and we are almost 15 months out! So it can be done. I was heartbroken when I had to intro bottles, due in large part to attitudes that proclaim it A FACT that introducing a bottle WILL WITHOUT FAIL destroy a breastfeeding relationship. I think that attitude can be very hurtful to moms, and there are lots more positive ways to help moms who need, for whatever reason, to have baby accept both bottle and breast.

I don't think wannabe's post was insulting at all. Clearly she meant inattentive and/OR unknowledgable. There are lots of well-intentioned but uninformed moms whose breastfeeding relationships are destroyed due to either lack of info or misinformation. I don't think anyone here can dispute that.
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Old 03-20-2008, 04:44 PM
 
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attitudes that proclaim it A FACT that introducing a bottle WILL WITHOUT FAIL destroy a breastfeeding relationship.
None HERE said that.

But it's too late when the damage is done, so warnings should go out.

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Old 03-20-2008, 04:49 PM
 
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There are lots of well-intentioned but uninformed moms whose breastfeeding relationships are destroyed due to either lack of info or misinformation. I don't think anyone here can dispute that.
I will agree that there are lots of breastfeeding relationships ruined due to misinformation. Misinformation like the idea that if done *just right* introducing a bottle is ALWAYS safe and never a risk.

Any artificial nipple at any time is a risk.

It is often no problem.

But it's still a risk.

-Angela
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:17 PM
 
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Also, wanted to point out that plenty of working moms nurse for many months, even years, with the help of bottles. So again, bottles are not guaranteed to threaten the breastfeeding relationship and to say so is needlessly alarmist, I believe.
Alarmist pretty much sums it up.

Two things spring to my mind on this:

First, I personally know way, way more babies who refuse bottles than those who got a bottle too early and refused to nurse. Mine among them. Nervous about the stories of nipple confusion, I waited too long. I see that "pumping and crying about what I've done" story and raise it a "listening to my child cry as the sitter tried to get her to take a bottle."

Second, I also know women who, knowing they were going back to work, decided that nursing/pumping wasn't worth it, because they'd heard all the alarmist stories about how breastfed babies won't take the bottle at all. "He'll need to take a bottle when I go back to work, and they say breastfed babies won't take bottles."

The all-or-nothing tactic isn't very helpful for the many, many women who know that they cannot rely on nothing but personally being the only one who can feed their child, and only from the breast, on demand, for a year.

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Old 03-20-2008, 07:28 PM
 
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VERY wrong! It CAN. Saying it "will not" is totally speculative and dismissive. IT CAN. It did with MY DS. Oh wait, that's cuz I was inattentive...
She said "will not when done carefully".

And yes, you were probably inattentive not to notice the beginnings of a problem. Easy to do, why are you so offended.
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Old 03-20-2008, 07:30 PM
 
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She said "will not when done carefully".

And yes, you were probably inattentive not to notice the beginnings of a problem. Easy to do, why are you so offended.
Yeah, I noticed, thanks...the problem was I didn't know what the hell to do. And, it CAN, even if done carefully. And, yes, I am HIGHLY offended.

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Old 03-20-2008, 07:42 PM
 
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Alarmist pretty much sums it up.


First, I personally know way, way more babies who refuse bottles than those who got a bottle too early and refused to nurse.

The all-or-nothing tactic isn't very helpful for the many, many women who know that they cannot rely on nothing but personally being the only one who can feed their child, and only from the breast, on demand, for a year.
I agree with all of this including having babies who will not take bottles.

We need more acceptance and we need to offer more flexibility if we want to make headway towards becoming a breastfeeding culture. Many women do not breastfeed at all or for very long because of negative attitudes towards flexibility. They see breastfeeding as an all or nothing choice when it does not have to be.

One does not have to offer any supplementation but if one chooses to it is not all that risky. Yes, in the scheme of things it is a risk, meaning it is not unrisky. But that does not equate to it being dangerous. As with pacifiers, most babies are just fine and totally know the difference between a real and a fake nipple.
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Old 03-20-2008, 07:51 PM
 
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