Help? Babe was born 5 days ago, my milk still isn't in. - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 178 Old 09-30-2003, 02:37 AM
 
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nak...
my milk came in on day 22 and by 6 weeks we had no supply problems, still going strong.
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#122 of 178 Old 09-30-2003, 03:01 AM
 
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Yea!!!
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#123 of 178 Old 09-30-2003, 04:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by seraph
nak...
my milk came in on day 22 and by 6 weeks we had no supply problems, still going strong.
thank you for that hope! If you did it we can too! I got my domperidone today Jane, thank you! Taking that, taking the fenugreek, the mother's milk tea (but yiiiick it tastes icky, I'm afraid I'm not drinking a quart a day but I'm trying my best), and I'll get the results of my thyroid tests tommorow...

I'm starting to get thirstier too... that could be a good sign. "Drinking to thirst" wasn't too impressive before, I made myself drink more than "to thirst" because it just wasn't cutting it, but today and yesterday I have been SO thirsty! Dunno if that 'means' anything, but I have hope. Still pumping the same amount, so who knows there...

The LC at Kaiser today told me I should start trying relgan (of course she's not going to recommend domperidone since its not approved for use in the USA) and I know its going to be world's cheaper to go that route, but I'm concerned about the side effect of intensifying/possibly causing depression. Has anyone here taken Reglan? If so how has it treated you?

Oh yeah Dh told me today I smell like maple syrup! :LOL

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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#124 of 178 Old 09-30-2003, 01:39 PM
 
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Glad the domperidone got there - give it a few days. Not sure if this is what you meant by your post, but don't even think about taking Reglan and domperidone together! The domperidone is enough, with all the other stuff you're taking. Domperidone is much safer than Reglan, as per Thomas Hale, Ph.D., author of Medications and Mother's Milk:

Quote:
The only problem with domperidone(Motilium) is that it was never cleared for use in the USA. This does not mean its not safe. Its used in every other country in world almost, including Great Britain, Australia, Canada, etc.

It was not even reviewed by our FDA, the company lost their patent right and therefore decided to not bring it to the USA. It is orders of magnitude safer then Reglan.

It is perfectly legal for a doctor to right a prescription for domperidone and for a compounding pharmacist to make and dispense it. Perfectly legal...
from Hale's forum on medications and mother's milk

When I started drinking a lot more water several years ago, I found I got thirstier as well...I think it was my body's way of telling me to keep up my hydration levels.

Hang in there!

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#125 of 178 Old 09-30-2003, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh no Jane I'm not thinking of taking reglan AND domperidone. No worries there

Thanks Celestial for sharing...

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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#126 of 178 Old 10-02-2003, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Wanted to give everyone an update. Orion likes to have these issues with nursing on one side or the other for a bit, like he just does *not* want the right or left side for a few hours sometimes, so last night he would NOT nurse on the left side. I could get him latched, but he'd only suck like twice, pull off and scream. So I did my best on that side, but he was mostly eatting on the right.

Anyways, so ds wakes me up this morning, and my left breast feels *slightly* fullish! I was gently squeezing to feel how full and a little jet of milkies shot out! So from 9am to noon/1pm I just fed Orion with my breasts, no supplement! He ate at 9am and totally passed back out for a few hours (a sure fire way to see that he's full and happy). From 11am-1pm or so he just nursed non stop, screamed when he was off, and it just got pretty clear to me at that point that he wasn't getting 100% full on "me", so I pulled the supplementer out again. He filled up (I didn't measure, but it wasn't a huge amount), and I've been using the supplementer since then, but he's eatting less of the supplement. So things are improving!

I saw the doc yesterday, and my thyroid is fine. She's running some other tests though, including testing the prolactin levels in my blood. I didn't know they could do that! Its good I gave blood for that right before I took the first domperidone...

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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#127 of 178 Old 10-02-2003, 01:57 AM
 
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Hey, milky jets, that's progress! Yippee!

Not to be too paranoid, but did you get a copy of your thyroid test results and compare them with the numbers at www.thyroid.about.com? As I mentioned above, the reference numbers changed this year - and my regular doc didn't pick up on that. Grrr.

Keep nursing that baby, I'm sure he'll be getting more and more of your milkies! :bf

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#128 of 178 Old 10-02-2003, 02:02 AM
 
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I am SO happy for you Lisa! That is major progress. You are on your way!




Lauren
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#129 of 178 Old 10-02-2003, 04:35 AM
 
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Yeah Lisa!
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#130 of 178 Old 10-02-2003, 05:19 AM
 
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milky jets?????

That is fabulous news!!! YAY FOR LISA AND ORION!

~~~

Quote:
Some one please correct me if I'm wrong. It's been about 5 years since I did this research, and discussed it with my IBCLC.
I've heard that too, plus I think the range of norms is very very wide.
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#131 of 178 Old 10-02-2003, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yup just one little 'jet', I didn't keep up the pressure to see what kind of spurt I could get, I just got the little guy on there pronto!

I forgot to add in that as I was laying there side nursing him (which I LOVE, and I can't do with the SNS, so it was pure heaven to be able to LAY down and nurse when my tailbone hurts) and I was feeling a trickle as I nursed him. I was halfway asleep and kept thinking 'what in the world is that leaking on me??' it was my other breast! Not a *ton* of leakage, but this is BIG for me, before this morning at the *most* I could maybe get a couple of beaded up drops of milk by hand.

Thank goodness for these little signs of improvment. I'm getting SO sick of the SNS!

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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#132 of 178 Old 10-02-2003, 06:45 AM
 
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GREAT
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#133 of 178 Old 10-02-2003, 09:52 AM
 
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hooray lisa! :LOL

fwiw, i only sprayed a couple of times. i was a big dripper. well, not a _big_ dripper, but one side would drip whenever dd nursed on the other side. it wasn't enough to catch or anything. i hear about moms who have so much that they can catch the overflow (spray or drips) to keep, but that wasn't me, so drips and milky jets sound great to me! dd was a fat baby, too, so don't think you have to spray across the room to have enough . sounds like you're doing great!

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#134 of 178 Old 10-02-2003, 10:37 AM
 
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Lisa, that's WONDEFUL!! I am so happy for you. :-)

Laura, mama to J (15), N (12), E (9) , M (6), and our little caboose, R (3).
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#135 of 178 Old 10-02-2003, 10:57 AM
 
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Lisa, that is big news!

I am so happy for you, that brought tears (happy ones this time) to my eyes! WIll see you later today if you're available.


Lauren
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#136 of 178 Old 10-06-2003, 11:18 AM
 
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Hi Lisa_Lynn,

Just wondering how you and that sweet little Orion are doing?

Emily

Mama to Thing 1 and Thing 2.
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#137 of 178 Old 10-07-2003, 06:14 PM
 
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Hi Lisa! I haven't checked in your thread for awhile and I'm totally excited about what you posted!!! That is the best news I've heard in a long time. I wish I had known about your progress when I talked to you last so I could have congratulated you in person. You're one tough mama! ttys.
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#138 of 178 Old 10-07-2003, 06:57 PM
 
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Lisa,
That is such great news. Remember that even if you don't leak at all, or feel a letdown, you can still have enough milk. I could squirt "milk jets" sometimes...after dd had nursed but never felt letdown and rarely ever leaked more than a few drops, and that stopped within the first month. As I posted before, babe is now 19 lbs at 8 months so she definitely got enough milk.

You're well on your way. I have no doubt that you'll be happily breastfeeding a year from now!
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#139 of 178 Old 10-07-2003, 07:47 PM
 
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I just wanted to say congrats and add that I am also one of those mamas that has leaked at total of 5 times in my life, NEVER felt my milk come in after ds was born, and have NEVER felt letdown, not ever. I also rarely get that full feeling, even after he hasnt nursed for a loong time. He was ebf for the first 9 months or so and is still going strong at 19 months!! SO, from what you have posted, it sounds like you will be off the sns in no time!! Good luck!!

Heather , momma to ' Parker- 10, Carlee- 7 and our baby Genevieve Faith - 8-27-10

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#140 of 178 Old 10-08-2003, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you everyone Just wanted to do a quick update while ds naps next to me. I was feeling a little down about things until monday, because I didn't have any repeats of any milky jets, or any fullness, ect... and pumping is gaining me less that before. At this point all I can do is wait. I'm doing/taking every possible thing that I know of... anyways, monday I was nursing him at Kaiser after his ped appt (my friend said I got LOTS of dirty looks. Sheesh in the ped department? Come *on* people, I think I should have free reign to nurse there... guess it was because its really hard to be discrete nursing with the SNS so lotsa boobie got flashed)... Annnnyways, nursing him there I was trying to move my breast so my nipple was in a better position for me and out squirted another little jet Yeah!

I'm also getting better at using this thing at night, I have to stay on my back, half way sitting/reclining, and have to prop us up with pillows and blankies, but yesterday I got to fall asleep lots when he nursed! Yeah!

Ok, so I know I'm all happy happy joy joy right now, but it has been pretty freaking difficult. I've had moments I wanted to just say screw it, but knew I'd hate myself if I threw in the towel without doing everything I can... so yeah, its still difficult, but at least I'm getting better dealing with the 'hardware' ...

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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#141 of 178 Old 10-08-2003, 09:02 AM
 
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big hug Lisa for hanging in there. I know how hard it can be - the extra sleep will sure help tho!! you've given your ds such a wonderful start to life!
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#142 of 178 Old 10-08-2003, 11:25 AM
 
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Lisa, I've been following this thread and am just so impressed with your dedication.

I wanted to point out something another poster wrote, but I can't tell from your posts that you noticed, or even if this is still an issue for you...

The adhesive tape I used with my SNS -- after MUCH trial and error (and sores to prove it) -- was the first-aid tape for sensitive skin. It's made by Johnson & Johnson and sold in green/white packaging, and is available at any grocery store or pharmacy. It peels off sooo easily, no pulling at all (much better than band-aids even). It took me a while to finally find it, but it made life a little easier - plus, I found that even though it peeled off easily, it usually stayed sticky enough to use for next time.

Also, I'm not sure if this is so redundant by now, but you definitely want the syringe/vial at or below your nipple so the baby has to suck. My dd and ds had reflux so I found that out the hard way. Sounds like you know this, but it's hard to do lying down without some manuevering, so thought I'd just mention it again.

Big hug to you mama.
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#143 of 178 Old 10-08-2003, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Twinmommy! (both for the praise and advice)

I've found that cut up band aids work really well for me (for some reason band aids loose their stick on me after awhile, but hold good before that), but once I run thru the batch I've cut up I'll see about hunting down that tape (or hey maybe I'll get to stop using this sns by then! I cut up a LOT of band aids :LOL)

As far as lowering the SNS while he's feeding, the SNS I have now is one that has three different sized tubing options. Normal flow, small flow, and large flow. The normal flow one got a hole in it, and I'd have to buy the WHOLE thing again (at 30$), so I'm using the small flow tubing... when I was using the normal flow, I did lower it, or keep it at his level. The small flow one I actually have to raise, or he doesn't get anything out of the tube even when he's mad hungry sucking *hard*. Don't worry though, I make sure he's still sucking the same way he does/did prior to the SNS... he'll sometimes try to pop off the nipple and use the tube as a straw too, but I don't let him...

So I'm wondering if anyone knows how much food an "average" three week old would take in? I know its hard to measure that, but I'm trying to get a rough guess how much he's taking in supplements... He's taking about 12 ounces of supplement in 24 hours now... I guess it would just help to know that he's getting *something* from me... It'd sure help my determination level!

Oh and everyone here, thanks for the moral support, advice, milkies , domperidone, ect... I truly *needed* all the support I've gotten from everyone, and would most likely have given up already without it. Thank you!

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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#144 of 178 Old 10-08-2003, 03:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lisa_Lynn
So I'm wondering if anyone knows how much food an "average" three week old would take in? I know its hard to measure that, but I'm trying to get a rough guess how much he's taking in supplements... He's taking about 12 ounces of supplement in 24 hours now... I guess it would just help to know that he's getting *something* from me... It'd sure help my determination level!
Oh, he's definately getting something! As I understand it, babies usually get an average of 32 oz per day, but it's really quite a range- anywhere from 20 to 40+.

Lisa, I think it is so awesome that you are going to such lengths to nurse your sweet babe. You are an incredible mama and Orion is lucky to have you!

Laura, mama to J (15), N (12), E (9) , M (6), and our little caboose, R (3).
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#145 of 178 Old 10-08-2003, 03:55 PM
 
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Ahhhh... now here's a subject I can obsess about! :LOL

A few weeks into our premature-twins-learning-to-nurse extravaganza, ds developed bad reflux (around 37 weeks gestation equiv., or when he was 5 weeks old). He began to associate feeding with being in pain. He began bobbing on and off, rolling nipple around in his mouth, gagging, etc. His weight gain slowed way down. It was bad. Finally, we figured out it was reflux and he went on Zantac. Well it took him a few weeks after that to re-learn how to suck, and in the meantime we syringe fed and cup fed just to get him some milk. (And this is back when we were still mostly using EBM via bottle and EBM via SNS, since they couldn't nurse well enough yet, so I knew exactly how much they were getting anyway.)

All in all, we had 6 weeks or so of poor weight gain. During that time, I devoured everything I could get my hands on about how much is the bare minimum for a baby of such and such an age and weight. Well, I learned an important lesson... first and foremost, as long as the baby is growing well (and consistently), it doesn't matter if they take in 10 ounces or 40. Case in point: my dd. She didn't eat much more than ds if at all, and she gained like a champ! She just needed less. Second thing I learned is there is no average amount. From all I read and caluclated, the average 9 or so pound 3 week old needs *at least* 18 to 24 ounces of milk a day, and many drink even more than that. Hoooey. Dd didn't eat that much until she was (equivalent to) 2 months old and she gained beautifully, catching up to full term babies by 4 months.

By the time dd and ds were 3 months old (or equivalent to 4 weeks old), we had managed to do away with SNS and bottles), so I don't have any "numbers" after that.

So the moral of my story is have your ds weighed. If he's gaining nicely, don't worry about it. If he's getting 12 ounces from SNS, he's probably getting at least another 5-10 from you! YAY! And if his rate of gain is slowing down (he's dropping weight percentiles rapidly), maybe you can try to up the amount in the SNS until his gain picks back up.

I found this helpful to chart growth in the early (and worrisome) days:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/about/major/...arts.htm#Clin1

(These will be good at least for a couple of months. I've heard BFd babies should be compared on different charts, but these will nevertheless show you rate of gain changes, which is all that really matters.)

p.s., if reflux is an issue, LMK. Been there. :


[Edited to fix URL]
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#146 of 178 Old 10-08-2003, 07:29 PM
 
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This chart was ENORMOUSLY helpful to me when dealing with low supply:

Breastmilk Intake Guidelines by Weight
Weight Amount in ounces per 24 hours
5 lbs 13 oz/ 371 ml
6 lbs 16 oz/ 457 ml
7 lbs 19 oz/542 ml
8 lbs 21 oz/600 ml
9 lbs 24 oz/685 ml
10 lbs 27 oz/771 ml
11 lbs 29 oz/828 ml
12 lbs 32 oz/914 ml
14 lbs 37 oz/1057 ml
16 lbs 43 oz/1228 ml
Source: Riordan and Auerbach, Breastfeeding and Human Lactation, Second Edition,1999, p. 361. Used with permission

So if he's 9 lbs, he need 24 ounces--and if you're supplementing 12 ounces, AND he's producing the 6-8 wet diapers, is steadily gaining weight, and is content, then you're making 12 ounces, approximately.

This is also helpful for WOHM who need to know how much pumped BM to leave.
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#147 of 178 Old 10-08-2003, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you Twinmommy and Gurumama

I'm not worried about the weight gain and such, he's gained beautifully (at his 20 day appt, he had gained 1 pound and 4 ounces, he's 8 pounds 6 ounces now. Was born 7 pounds 2 ounces, and went down to 6 pounds 4 ounces) and has LOTS of wet dipes (he is a major pee machine! Disposies won't contain it, and I have to use plastic pants to keep his clothes from getting soaked over the prefolds).

I just want to be able to say to myself: "I *know* I'm partially feeding him". You know, to be able to guess that I'm giving him half, or a fourth, or whatever of his nutrition. So I don't feel like the human bottle and like he's only getting the formula or donated breastmilk.

I don't limit how much he takes by the SNS. The one I have will hold 5 ounces, I fill it to 4 ounces and feed him (of course he doesn't take all that at once). I usually have to fill the SNS 3 times a day. That's where I'm getting my 12 ounces of supplement....

Sooo by your chart gurumama I'm half feeding him! And from your info Twinmommy its 6-12 ounces all Mama's milk! Which either way makes me feel happy! I'm making *something*!

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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#148 of 178 Old 10-08-2003, 10:37 PM
 
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Quote:
So I'm wondering if anyone knows how much food an "average" three week old would take in? I know its hard to measure that, but I'm trying to get a rough guess how much he's taking in supplements... He's taking about 12 ounces of supplement in 24 hours now
The average range for a formula fed baby is 2 to 2.5 ounces, per pound of baby's weight (18 - 22.5 ounces/day). I think someone mentioned 32 ounces a day, but that's pretty rare at your son's age and size. Actually, I think that 32 oz/day for a newborn would be an indication of overfeeding or perhaps a digestive problem.

At only 12 ounces of formula a day, you are doing great!!!
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#149 of 178 Old 10-09-2003, 02:39 PM
 
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Lisa, just wanted to underscore my point about averages being that... just averages. There's a wide range of acceptable daily ounces, depending on a variety of individual factors, but the key is really whether your baby is gaining nicely and steadily (and indirectly, diaper counts).

Sounds like you're good on all fronts, so even if he is only drinking as little as 16 ounces, or as much as 30+, you have nothing to worry about.

You deserve a huge pat on the back, because it sounds like he's close to getting half his milkies from you / EBM, which is a huge achievement already!!
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#150 of 178 Old 10-09-2003, 02:39 PM
 
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. oops... duplicate post
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