"My milk hasn't come in yet..." - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 19 Old 06-17-2008, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
just_lily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi ladies,

So I am currently at home on modified bedrest, pregnant with my first. It leaves me with way too much time to watch all of those "baby shows" on television.

One common refrain from these women is that their milk hasn't come in yet, so they "have" to supplement with formula. Of course whenever they go back for the 6-week follow up they have completely given up on BFing because the babe never latched, milk never was sufficient, etc. etc.

I totally believe that nature doesn't make mistakes, and that if newborn babes "needed" breast milk (as opposed to colostrum) on day one, our breasts would be making it on day one. So why is waiting for it to come in such an issue for some many women? Are they just misinformed?

Is colostrum filling enough to satisfy a new baby, or am I in for days of crying until my milk comes in?

Are there any reasons why you really would have to be supplementing in the very early days?

Thanks!!

Wife to DH (06/10) and Mummy to DD (07/08).

just_lily is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 19 Old 06-17-2008, 05:26 PM
 
KristyDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The 'burbs of Atlanta
Posts: 2,681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I freaked about my milk coming in. I was well educated, I knew it could take 3-5 days and that baby was expected to lose weight during that time. But the ped at the hospital had insisted that I NEEDED to make sure I got DD in for a weight check at our ped before the weekend since she had lost 8.5% of her birth weight by the 3rd day of life. That made me paranoid even though I knew that the IV I had could have falsely inflated her birth weight and that as much as a 10% weight loss was no cause for concern. Had I been less educated or had less BFing support I might have caved and supplemented. I was so worried. Hormones do not make thinking clearly all that easy.

Of course, my milk came in early on day 4 and by day 6 when we went for that weight check DD was nearly back at her birth weight.

So yes, I think it's lack of support/information/education. New mothers worry and so often doctors and nurses make them paranoid for no reason.

One of the facts that kept me from giving formula to "top her off" as the night nurse put it when she said dd's cry "sounded hungry" was the the baby's stomach is only as big as their fist. They don't need a large volume of food. You are exactly right. They are designed to only get colostrum until mama's milk comes in. As long as you get enough wet and poopy diapers the the baby is fine.

Here is a link to Kellymom. This is a list of articles about what to expect in the early days of BFing.

Good luck with your new little one and congrats!

Kristy, wife to Josh proud mama to Katie: since 3/08 and Emma since 8/12.

KristyDi is offline  
#3 of 19 Old 06-17-2008, 07:00 PM
 
crazycandigirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Texas Coast
Posts: 1,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
With my DD2 (Panda), my milk did not come in until the the beginning of day 6. Panda kept nursing like a champ, all day every day (like 24/7, and I had plenty of colostrum.

She did lose some weight that week, which worried the doc just a little, but no one suggested supplementing. She also was not having very many poopy diapers and she was jaundiced. As soon as my milk came in both those issues went away. She also gained 12oz in that next week, so she gained as soon as it did come in.

I didn't worry at all, because I knew it would come in and be fine. I honestly think that my confidence in my ability to make milk was part of what kept the doctors and nurses from suggesting formula. I would have started worrying if she continued to lose weight, still was not having poopy diapers, or if she became lethargic, but all was good.

It makes me sad to see mothers who get so worried that the baby is hungry and that they are not able to make milk. Most newborns want to suckle 24/7. This helps to establish milk supply and is comforting to them. When they cry as you lay them down, it is because they need to be held and snuggled and nursed (for comfort), not because they are starving.

I do know that some woman have problems with supply. Go with your instinct and get help if you feel it is needed. It is just sad that the natural way of beginning a nursing relationship is not known by more people.

Unschooling Mommy of 3: Lilith (14), Panda (6), and Fox (4)
crazycandigirl is offline  
#4 of 19 Old 06-17-2008, 09:06 PM
 
Khourtniey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 1,741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dont you know that if you dont supplement with formula that you are a horrible mother???????

Those shows really piss me off. Its stupid doctor advice like that that makes a lot of parents use formula.

There are NO NO NO NO NO reasons to supplement in those early days....
Khourtniey is offline  
#5 of 19 Old 06-17-2008, 09:11 PM
 
NJ*Doula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bergen County
Posts: 1,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khourtniey View Post
There are NO NO NO NO NO reasons to supplement in those early days....
It's very easy to say that from where you are. It's much harder when your brand new baby is screaming bloody nurder without stopping because he's so hungry. I'm as much a breastfeeding advocate as anyone else here, but I was that mom with the screaming baby, and I supplemented. Now's he's three months old and nurses like a champ.
NJ*Doula is offline  
#6 of 19 Old 06-17-2008, 09:54 PM
 
yasinsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GathererGirl View Post
It's very easy to say that from where you are. It's much harder when your brand new baby is screaming bloody nurder without stopping because he's so hungry. I'm as much a breastfeeding advocate as anyone else here, but I was that mom with the screaming baby, and I supplemented. Now's he's three months old and nurses like a champ.
: (except mine is 2 months old now)

I'm Aicha . In love with my DH, and my Adam (4/23/08) . boobie monster.
yasinsmama is offline  
#7 of 19 Old 06-17-2008, 09:56 PM
 
goodygumdrops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just have to comment about the other side of it....Don't you know that if you use formula your a bad mama??????? Seriously, my milk didn't come in until the 5-6th day and we were getting discharged. My little guy was screaming because he was starving and so I supplemented with an sns system and by golly, he was fine. My milk came in the next day....I had a beer with my dinner and by morning was engorged. So, I think every situation is unique and we should really try and be compassionate to everyone's experiences.

"Breastfeeding is a robust, biologically stable activity so central to our evolutionary identity that it names the class of animals to which we belong" (Breastfeeding Atlas, Third Edition)
goodygumdrops is offline  
#8 of 19 Old 06-17-2008, 10:13 PM
 
Mommal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pennsyltuckey
Posts: 422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Don't watch those TLC baby shows- they are terrible! Full of misinformation and medical mismanagement. Watch anything else- soap operas, Law & Order reruns- anything!

Colostrum is enough to fill a newborn's tiny tummy. Most women find that their milk comes in within 5 days of giving birth. Mine came in on day 3. (Women who have c-sections or extreme blood loss, however, sometimes find that milk production is somewhat delayed.)

If you are ever tempted to reach for the bottle, remember that supplementing can delay the onset of milk production. A baby who gets stuffed full of formula will not nurse as much as he would otherwise, and frequent nursing is what stimulates milk to come in.

Some women do need to supplement their babies, and some supplemented babies come through the experience just fine and go on to become 100% breastfed. But both situations are rare, IMHO.
Mommal is offline  
#9 of 19 Old 06-18-2008, 12:40 AM
 
butterfly_mommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto, ON Canada
Posts: 1,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My babe was a big boy at birth 9 lbs 12 oz and by the second night he was screaming because of hunger he had never felt that before so why would he not scream? I was upset that he would "starve to death" and may have been tempted to give him formula however my DH reminded me that he would not starve to death and that it is normal for a new baby to scream in the first few days not to mention that he had to be born by c-section so his birth was traumatic, we had to stay in a very hot hospital with people bugging us and he was feeling all kinds of things that just a day before he wasn't because he was floating nicely in my womb. Anyway he did lose 10% of his body weight by the third day. Thankfully my midwife just kept telling me to put him to my breast and that it was normal for a babe to lose 10% and that once my milk was in he would gain it back, he was also having lots and lots of poopy and wet diapers. He was back to his birth weight by day 6! My milk began to transition on day three. I am glad that no body offered me supplementation and that I had no samples lying around.

Scarlett bfinfant.gif , DH Boris geek.gif , DS 1/29/08 Julian kid.gif DD2 6/7/12 babygirl.gif missing our DD 1/06/06 Sonja angel3.gif and MC @ 9 wks 11/18/06 Satchel  angel.gif

butterfly_mommy is offline  
#10 of 19 Old 06-18-2008, 12:56 AM
 
cognito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: OH
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khourtniey View Post
Dont you know that if you dont supplement with formula that you are a horrible mother???????

Those shows really piss me off. Its stupid doctor advice like that that makes a lot of parents use formula.

There are NO NO NO NO NO reasons to supplement in those early days....
Really?!?

Hmmm... I'm pretty sure my baby with severe jaundice after a traumatic c-section (due to a cord issue) with a mommy whose milk was delayed & didn't start coming in until day 5 needed formula.

Formula or brain damage... I picked formula.

I did pump & nurse around the clock. If he was getting formula it was from his dad while I pumped.

We are still working on latching problems now, but I won't regret feeding him formula at 3 days old to keep him healthy.
cognito is offline  
#11 of 19 Old 06-18-2008, 03:56 AM
 
Khourtniey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 1,741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow.. Maybe I should have put the scripture from my other post into this one.. My first part was a joke... Obviously.. or so I thought... I guess it wasnt as obvious as I thought.. So for all of those who had a problem with it.. IT WAS A JOKE!!! Sorry

The middle part.. Yes that show does piss me off. That was no joke... and yes I think stupid doctor advice is what leads many parents to giving formula... Like the jaundice issues... Dont even get me started there. Yes.. there are some rare babies who have extremely high levels and need other things, but most do not.

For the Hungry babies... well this may seem harsh, but this is my opinion and Im entitled to it.... get over it... Milk will come in and baby will be fine until the milk comes in. Baby will not starve... The crying will subside. I would rather give my child half an ounce of colostrum and them not feel full rather than giving them 2 ounces of formula and them feeling full in those early days.

And yes.. I have given my children formula as supplements.. but Ive had to EP for all of my children because they were all preemies. Im still EPing for my middle child and he is 3. He is 100% breastfed, the only formula he gets is for fortification.


So maybe I should rephrase that...There are VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY FEW newborns who TRULY do need supplementing..

Now Im sure I will see many more people come into this thread and say their child TRULY needed supplementing....

I dont think its bad per se to supplement if thats what you chose, but I think its bad for doctors to make parents think that they MUST supplement when in 99.9999999% of the cases there is no need to supplement.


Ok.. Flame away..
Khourtniey is offline  
#12 of 19 Old 06-18-2008, 10:55 AM
 
Moonglow Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If "nature doesn't make mistakes" there would be no low supply mamas with insufficient glandular tissue.

Or mamas with jaundiced babies with sky high (25+) bilirubin levels, but the mama's milk doesn't come in till day 8 or 9.

Or any other number of unfortunate natural factors that lead to early supplementation.

ITA that most instances of early supplementation are due to human "mistakes" rather than mistakes of nature. Misinformation. Misunderstanding. An unwillingness to let baby cry and fuss waiting for milk to come in and supply to build.

But yes, nature does make mistakes. Not often, but they do happen. I think the key is being well educated ahead of time, so you can sort out how to cope with whatever challenges come your way. Sounds like you are well on your way...

Good luck!
Moonglow Girl is offline  
#13 of 19 Old 06-18-2008, 11:07 AM
 
GoBecGo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In general colostrum is plenty for newborns, milk comes in fine within the first 2-6 days and babies do great. In some cases supplementation can be helpful. The cases above are perfect examples. Bilirubin is excreted in bile which is made in response to eating volumes of food, thus a very jaundiced newborn whose mother doesn't have milk yet might benefit from a few supplemental feeds - it doesn't have to be formula, it can be milkbank EBM from another woman, it just needs to be food. WITHOUT that supplementation brain damage is an EXTREMELY rare outcome (but one obs have seen and thus are concerned about) but BFing problems are a more common outcome as baby gets more yellow and tired and is unable to wake up to nurse properly, milk supply is lower in mama, latch technique can become poor through bad habit because baby is half-asleep and unable to latch well for several days so that by the time they "wake up" when their jaundice subsides they have learned a poor technique and go on vigorously trying to feed that way, damaging mum's nipples. Supplementing isn't life or death, but it can be helpful. For best BFing outcomes using an SNS or syringe to give the supplementation, rather than a bottle, allows baby to get food while avoiding nipple confusion.

For newborns whose jaundice resolves easily (most of them) colostrum is plenty enough and FWIW my homebirthed DD never lost any weight. She was 7lbs 14.5oz at birth and the next time we weighed her, on day 8 (my milk came in on day 4) she was 8lbs 6oz. That's quite common with homebirthers.
GoBecGo is offline  
#14 of 19 Old 06-18-2008, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
just_lily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Holy cow, I never thought I was going to be causing a debate.

I certainly wasn't expecting my comment on nature to be controversial. My point was that if ALL babies need full breast milk on day one, than most moms would be making it immediately after birth. It wasn't meant to be an all encompassing statement to which there would be no exceptions.

It is like saying that if foreskin was truly useless, baby boys would be born without it. Sure there are very, very rare cases where a circumcision is truly required, but as a whole, babies are born with the parts they require. Know what I mean?

I believe that on a whole, our bodies know what they are doing. On the whole, women can give birth naturally and without intervention.... this is not saying that for some women interventions aren't required and necessary. It is a broad statement... just like my breastfeeding one.

I was in no way attempting to start a debate. I am about to become a new mom, and am personally quite concerned about the period before my milk comes in. I was looking for advice and personal experiences on how to cope. How do I possibly know if I *truly* need to supplement vs. just coming up against an over-eager doctor? Establishing a breast feeding relationship is extremely important to me, and I don't want to do anything to jeapordize it in the early days.

I thought this was a forum to receive support about breastfeeding.... not to get into debates about formula.

Wife to DH (06/10) and Mummy to DD (07/08).

just_lily is offline  
#15 of 19 Old 06-18-2008, 04:10 PM
 
goodygumdrops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow....I didn't mean it to sound snarky either. I was kinda joking myself

I do believe that you should have confidence in your body and I'm sure your milk will come in just fine. I do think that there is an incredible lack of knowledge and support for new mamas in regards to breastfeeding.

I personally only used an sns system for one day and NO pacifiers for at least 4 weeks. I'm sure my son would have been physically fine if I hadn't supplemented but I wouldn't have been... he was very clearly hungry and quite upset so it really was no brainer FOR ME. I also live in a very progressive part of the country and I had an amazing support for our breast feeding relationship. **Oh, yeah...I completely forgot..my son was slightly jaundiced so I didn't want him to get dehydrated because it could have made it worse**

Also, I want to point out that as new mother's we can be very vulnerable to advice...crunchy or "mainstream". Now that I have some experience under my belt, I know to take it all lightly.

"Breastfeeding is a robust, biologically stable activity so central to our evolutionary identity that it names the class of animals to which we belong" (Breastfeeding Atlas, Third Edition)
goodygumdrops is offline  
#16 of 19 Old 06-18-2008, 04:24 PM
 
GooeyRN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just keep count of the wet/dirty dipes and any jaundice. If there is an issue with any, talk to an LC. MAYBE supplementing would then be a good idea, but it certainly isn't needed all of the time.

I wish I would have supplemented my ds in the early days, maybe we wouldn't have had a FTT diagnosis and severe jaundice.
GooeyRN is offline  
#17 of 19 Old 06-18-2008, 05:03 PM
 
North_Of_60's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
Posts: 7,108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khourtniey View Post
Now Im sure I will see many more people come into this thread and say their child TRULY needed supplementing....
But the why part is really irrelevant. I do agree that it's rare, but it's not an instant death sentence to the breastfeeding relationship. My supplemented 27 month became exclusively breastfed at 14 weeks, we delayed solids, and she's still nursing.

It took my milk 8 days to come in, and with the complications both of us were facing, it was either formula, or admission back into the hospital. And I'll probably have to do that with the next one, and the next one after that. I view formula as a medically necessary supplement, and when it's medically necessary, I have absolutely no problems with it.

Frankenstein never scared me. Marsupials do. Because they're FAST.
North_Of_60 is offline  
#18 of 19 Old 06-18-2008, 05:54 PM
 
bellymama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: humboldt california
Posts: 2,534
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
my milk took 5 days to come in and my kiddo was fine. he didn't cry or seem hungry at all. he had mild jaundice for the first 3 days too, so i got a lot of pressure to supplement, but i decided not to, and he was fine before we even left the hospital. however, i imagine there might be a lot of medical/health reasons that preemies, or sick babies might need supplementing....
bellymama is offline  
#19 of 19 Old 06-18-2008, 08:29 PM
 
cognito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: OH
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_lily View Post
So I am currently at home on modified bedrest, pregnant with my first. It leaves me with way too much time to watch all of those "baby shows" on television.
I originally meant to say good luck with bedrest. I spent 6 weeks on strict bedrest at home when pregnant with my first. You can do it!

I made friends with lots of judges... Judy, Alex, Greg, Joe... You'd be surprised how many there are. There's some new ones now.

Maybe they could keep you company. I know that watching those people made me feel like I had my life pretty together. Some of them are pretty out there.
cognito is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off