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Old 04-22-2006, 02:20 AM
 
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GABA is what I take before I go to bed. I fall asleep really easily, it's a restful sleep, and I notice it when I don't take it. My husband finds that it's hard to wake up in the AM when he takes it, however. And my friend's husband found that it made him weepy. Just a reminder to keep in mind your own needs and adjust as neccesary.

Something that I keep forgetting to mention, and dh and I always need to remind ourselves of this, is that The Mood Cure book isn't just about pushing supplements. She would really like to see people eat more real protein, esp. fish, and get their aminos that way. The supplements are meant to be just that, supplemental.

Now that I'm in the very last stages of pregnancy I can really see the difference between this pg and last pg, when I didn't get enough protein. I've barely been swollen at all, and I feel a lot more relaxed. I slacked on my protein in the last week and got really cranky. As soon as I upped it, and upped my supplements (tyrosine and 5-HTP) I felt a lot better. It's making coping with these last weeks a lot easier, esp. with my 2 year old!

Kat - mama to Clara (9/29/03): & Iris (5/30/06)
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Old 04-22-2006, 02:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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ITA. you really need to determine where your deficiencies are and treat that way... Just because something like GABA works for one person doesn't necessarily mean it will work for another. I know the mood cure will help to narrow down your needs, but there are many tests that can give you good answers. Diet is always the best way to get it, but if you are significantly deficient supplements may be necessary.
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Old 04-24-2006, 11:39 PM
 
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Can't write all I want to right now (splitting headache from all the crying, but at least readin the thread has shown me that I do truly have some PPD) but I did want to ask the following, because I just went the the HFS:

I am EBF my DSso.....
--If 5-HTP makes some people sleepy, what happens when your baby wakes up for a night nurse? Are you really drowsy or does it only relax you a little?
--If 5-HTP makes some people's appetite go down, does it affect your milk supply, since you need enough food (extra 500 calories) to keep up a good supply?

Thanks mamas

Miles (December 2005) Pascual (March 2009). P's was my beautiful home waterbirth that healed me from my M's birth. natural birth, midwifery, postpartum depression, babywearing, breastfeeding.
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Old 04-25-2006, 01:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by vanessab23
Can't write all I want to right now (splitting headache from all the crying, but at least readin the thread has shown me that I do truly have some PPD) but I did want to ask the following, because I just went the the HFS:

I am EBF my DSso.....
--If 5-HTP makes some people sleepy, what happens when your baby wakes up for a night nurse? Are you really drowsy or does it only relax you a little?
--If 5-HTP makes some people's appetite go down, does it affect your milk supply, since you need enough food (extra 500 calories) to keep up a good supply?

Thanks mamas
(((HUGS))) to you, mama. I'm sorry you're so down. I don't find that the supplements make me feel drugged at all. But like I said, my husband doesn't care for GABA because he thinks it does make him groggy. As for supply, I didn't notice that at all, but I wasn't pumping anymore when I started taking 5-HTP and dd1 was only nursing at night by then so supply wasn't such a big deal to me.

I know when you're feeling so stressed out and trying to be the best mom you can be it's hard to do something that you're afraid may create a whole new problem to deal with, like not being awake for your child or putting your supply at risk. If the supplements like 5-HTP worry you, consider trying Cod Liver Oil, or another oil supplement like Omega Mom. But I would seriously doubt 5-HTP would either make it hard for you to awaken or risk your supply.

Kat - mama to Clara (9/29/03): & Iris (5/30/06)
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We've talked about the Mood Cure, but has anyone read "Depression Free for Life" by Dr. Gabriel Cousens? I feel like it went five thousand steps further and really helped you to understand chemically what was happening. He addresses far more than four neurotransmitters and gives little tests here and there to guide you in finding what neurotransmitters/amino acids/nutrients you are lacking or have an overabundance of. It is a must read in my mind for the scientific stuff. It also addresses correlations between addictions, drug usage and depression from a very different place. I really like that he pits natural cures against drugs and gives all the research to back it up (ie: why drugs work initially and then stop in many cases.)

I have not heard of 5-HTP affecting milk supply at all. In fact, because of it's action on the gut I'd be more inclined to believe that it would promote supply-but don't take my word on that. I have no research to back up my claims
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Old 04-25-2006, 12:48 PM
 
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Thank you for the suggestion! I have a friend who has a script for Wellbutrin in hand right now and a nursing 5 month old and I'm gently trying to get her to consider alternatives. I'll suggest this book, too.

Kat - mama to Clara (9/29/03): & Iris (5/30/06)
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The one thing I don't love about it is that it's pretty hardcore veg for the nutrition section. Gabriel Cousens is a doc and a psychiatrist, but he is also a vegan raw foodist. I was fine with it, because I can take what I need and leave the rest. But in terms of the science...well I already said I was pretty impressed. It was really comprehensive. Just know that you may need to forewarn about the recipes...
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Old 04-25-2006, 05:07 PM
 
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Just wanted to subscribe to this thread.. tons of great info here!
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Old 04-25-2006, 05:31 PM
 
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That is very interesting, I will have to check that book out. The info sounds great but I am also very interested in the nutrition part simply because I have so many people after me to eat meat health wise I would LOVE a book that promoted a more vegan type lifesyle.

On another note, how much 5-HTP are you taking now, and are you splitting it throughout the day or all at once?

Proud mama to DD#1 (11) DS (4) and DD#2 ( 2 )
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Old 04-25-2006, 06:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery
The one thing I don't love about it is that it's pretty hardcore veg for the nutrition section. Gabriel Cousens is a doc and a psychiatrist, but he is also a vegan raw foodist.
That is really interesting!!!
Especially compared with The Mood Cure, which says over and over that vegetarians, never mind vegans, have a hard time getting the complete proteins they need for mental health.
I've been struggling with this issue since I got the book in the mail recently...
I'm a lifelong vegetarian, leaning toward vegan but not quite, who is also very prone to depression and anorexia. I have strong moral feelings against killing animals for my food (since I have the luxury of having enough food without animal flesh), and the few times animal bits have made their way into my food, it has hit my body like food poisoning.
To think that I may have to eat meat in order to fight off depression...?
doesn't really cover it.
Now I'll have to check out Cousens book...

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Old 04-25-2006, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay-here's something I will say just to say it-and don't feel like I'm judging because as Amanda will tell you I am just recently off the raw vegan path. And only because of this:

Raw veganism is amazing and has a TON of health benefits. I loved living that way and have serious ethical issues with eating meat. The problem is that depression is a gut issue. It means that for whatever reason your body is not functioning properly. Your gut is damaged to some extent because all hte necessary amino acids/neurotransmitters are formulated in the gut. If you aren't making them you will need to supplement-and that's why we're all here. While it is absolutely possible to be a healthy vegan (especially if you are raw) it's not the best way to heal. I tried, and it didn't work. Beyond that though, once you understand physiology (and I'm doing my best!) it really is necessary to obtain nutrients from the sources that require minimal effort on the part of your body.

That said, I think there are also people who metabolically are more able to handle veganism/vegetarianism...I just don't happen to be one of them. I tested with several different people and I always come out an extreme protein type. Gabriel Cousens says that you can be a protein type and thrive on a raw vegan diet-and maybe you can. I just am not convinced you can heal your body of malnutrition and poor gut function living that way. Healing from cancer? Quite possibly-it's a different problem. Just keep it in mind. IF you have success, share with us! Clearly he believes it's possible.
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Old 04-27-2006, 05:16 AM
 
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This is a great thread, so far I have learned through your posts and links that my thyroid issue for which I was prescribed synthroid (not taking it) has something to do with why I have been feeling so crappy for so long now.

Also, I drink at least 2 cups of coffee per day, which kills inositol. I love coffee, but need to take inositol supplement to compensate.

I am a vegetarian who lately has been ignoring my need for protein.

I am also getting the book Depression Free for Life asap.

Thank you ladies!

Now, any particular supplement/natural remedy worked for you for hypothyroidism?

Thanks again.

Simply,
Nadia
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Old 04-27-2006, 12:23 PM
 
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Hi, Nadia! I don't have any ideas for supplements for you. Are you going to start the synthroid or do you think you'll try other things first?

Good luck with the protein intake. I eat meat and I still have a hard time getting all I need while pregnant (MWs want me to get 80 g/day!). I know how hard it is to plan those meals with kids. I ate a lot of nuts/trail mix while I was nursing dd and really needed the protein carbs to make milk. I probably got at least 10-20 g protein/day just by carrying a bag of trail mix with me everywhere I went.

Glad you're here!

Kat - mama to Clara (9/29/03): & Iris (5/30/06)
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Old 04-27-2006, 12:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NadiaSJ
Also, I drink at least 2 cups of coffee per day, which kills inositol. I love coffee, but need to take inositol supplement to compensate.
nadia-- is that true? do you mean to say that the inositol naturally in our bodies is zapped when you drink coffee? or do you mean even AFTER taking inositol suppl. the coffee zaps it? What about decaf?

Miles (December 2005) Pascual (March 2009). P's was my beautiful home waterbirth that healed me from my M's birth. natural birth, midwifery, postpartum depression, babywearing, breastfeeding.
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Old 04-27-2006, 02:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by vanessab23
nadia-- is that true? do you mean to say that the inositol naturally in our bodies is zapped when you drink coffee? or do you mean even AFTER taking inositol suppl. the coffee zaps it? What about decaf?
I got that info from this website:
http://www.anyvitamins.com/inositol-info.htm

This is what it says:

Quote:
When more inositol may be required
Taking of long term antibiotics may increase your need for inositol, as well as if you consume a lot of coffee.

Enemy of inositol
Coffee kills this nutrient.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KatSG
Hi, Nadia! I don't have any ideas for supplements for you. Are you going to start the synthroid or do you think you'll try other things first?
I never started taking the synthroid and don't plan to, people who take that take it for life. I was recommended a few things that didn't really work too well, including aromatherapy with geranium rose and Metabolean by Innerlight. I feel like I need to get my self on a program cause I know my digestion isn't too great and I read here that all these problems have their source in our guts, which makes sense.
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Old 04-27-2006, 05:33 PM
 
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Nadia said:
Quote:
I never started taking the synthroid and don't plan to, people who take that take it for life. I was recommended a few things that didn't really work too well, including aromatherapy with geranium rose and Metabolean by Innerlight. I feel like I need to get my self on a program cause I know my digestion isn't too great and I read here that all these problems have their source in our guts, which makes sense.
Have you been tested for celiac disease (gluten intolerance)? That often goes with low thyroid. Celiac runs rampant in my family and many of the women who have it have low thyroid.

Kat - mama to Clara (9/29/03): & Iris (5/30/06)
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Old 04-28-2006, 02:20 AM
 
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man is coffee destroys inositol...then I am sunk..lol I love my coffee... :-)
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Old 04-28-2006, 02:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by KatSG
Nadia said:


Have you been tested for celiac disease (gluten intolerance)? That often goes with low thyroid. Celiac runs rampant in my family and many of the women who have it have low thyroid.
No, I havent' been tested. What would be some symptoms of that condition?
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Old 04-28-2006, 02:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cobluegirl
man is coffee destroys inositol...then I am sunk..lol I love my coffee... :-)
i know me too, i am going to buy the inositol tomorrow.
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Old 04-28-2006, 11:31 AM
 
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The symptoms are so vast and varied. Basically it's an autoimmune disorder that makes you allergic to the protein in wheat, barley, rye and sometimes oats (this last one is still up for debate). You can be asymtomatic for a long time until other disorders result from your body being under attack for so long. This is how it works in my family. The disorders range from loose stools to thin hair to anemia to skin problems (like severe acne) to thyroid issues to arthritis to diabetes to multiple sclerosis (which my brother was just diagnosed with--his celiac went untreated forever b/c he wouldn't get tested). In some people, like very young children, it's a fatal disease in the first years of life because they just waste away. But mostly it's treated as a food allergy and once people get on the diet, which isn't that hard to follow, they feel so much better that they won't go back.

To get tested you can get the antibodies blood test, which is the easiest, but not always the most reliable. You have to have gluten in your diet for the test to work. There is also the upper GI which will check for damage to the small intestine, a tell-tale symptom.

I just asked about celiac because you made a reference to gut issues. I don't have celiac but I notice that I feel cranky if I eat too much refined grains, like bagels and such. My dd also tested negative but since in my family it seems like it can have an adult onset we're pretty low-gluten in our house.

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Old 04-28-2006, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Oats in and of themselves are not a problem-they contain gluten, but not the specific protein-gliadin- which is actually the offender. Oats are off limits because of cross contamination issues. Oats are processed in the us in the same plants that process wheat and it's impossible to clean the machinery in between. They are also rotated with wheat in the fields, which can be a problem. With CD you generally avoid oats for the first year, but can then go to imported (Irish) oats which don't go through the same processing plants.

Dd and I both have CD, ds is gluten intolerant. IT is very scary for babies, and she was FTT which was one reason she was tested. She also had the accompanying skin rash. My sypmtoms were skin probelms, depression, loss of hair, horrible bowel problems, weight gain....and on and on. Removing gluten and healing my gut really helped the depression. Oh, and all the other stuff! Haven't had a breakout since I found out and I had horrible cystic acne. Three rounds of accutane in my late teens failed and removing gluten cured it. Unbelievable.
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Old 04-28-2006, 12:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery
Raw veganism is amazing and has a TON of health benefits. I loved living that way and have serious ethical issues with eating meat. The problem is that depression is a gut issue. It means that for whatever reason your body is not functioning properly. Your gut is damaged to some extent because all hte necessary amino acids/neurotransmitters are formulated in the gut. If you aren't making them you will need to supplement-and that's why we're all here. While it is absolutely possible to be a healthy vegan (especially if you are raw) it's not the best way to heal. I tried, and it didn't work. Beyond that though, once you understand physiology (and I'm doing my best!) it really is necessary to obtain nutrients from the sources that require minimal effort on the part of your body.

That said, I think there are also people who metabolically are more able to handle veganism/vegetarianism...I just don't happen to be one of them. I tested with several different people and I always come out an extreme protein type. Gabriel Cousens says that you can be a protein type and thrive on a raw vegan diet-and maybe you can. ... IF you have success, share with us! Clearly he believes it's possible.
Wow. I was raised vegetarian, and don't remember ever really feeling strong and healthy.
I was about 12 when I decided to stop eating, though, so I've always attributed any health troubles to my deeply ingrained habit of not eating very often. It's hard to sort apart.

The idea that meat could be a quick fix is both very exciting and deeply horrifying to me. It doesn't help that I've been taunted by a few omnivore friends over the years that if I just ate meat, the problem at hand would disappear! :

I'm anxiously awaiting the Cousens book in the mail. I will throw myself into it and see how things go, both in hopes of getting myself into a better space, and out of curiousity and hope of sharing my experiences here!

It's harder to measure progress now that spring has sprung and Vermont no longer seems like a prison.

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Old 04-29-2006, 08:24 AM
 
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firefaery - Fascinating! I didn't realize you had celiac, too. What test gave you your diagnosis? Sometimes I feel like I'm always bringing it up just because it's such a big deal in my family, but it really does seem to be something that's diagnosed more often since there is more awareness. Sorry to hear about your dd--that must have been scary. I'm going to tell my mom and brother about your post and re-suggest amino acids to them. They both suffer from low-grade depression, esp. my brother with his new MS diagnosis, and it's so hard to watch them in this ongoing funk.

And thanks for the reminder about what it is about oats...I always forget that detail.

Something else I thought I'd mention here is that dd and I recently started taking Cod Liver Oil, a spoonful every night. This was mainly because of my brother's MS diagnosis. My risk level is now 25%+ because I'm a female sibling and my research showed that people who live farther from the equator are at a higher risk due to lower Vit D--unless you live somewhere where they eat a lot of fish and then the incidence is really low. But CLO is also a great source of essential fatty acids and is supposed to be great for developing brains so I figure it's great for my babe in utero and dd. I don't notice that I feel any different, but dd LOVES her CLO (we call it Lemon Medicine b/c it's lemon flavored) and won't go to bed without it, so I figure it's doing something good for her. And if you ask anyone over 55, their moms gave them CLO every night, back when people ate more reasonable diets.

I realized I missed a few posts on the last page about vegetarianism/veganism. I can sympathize with the quandary. I tried to be vegetarian a few times in high school and college and I just had to give up because I got so sick with anemia. One of the ways I deal with it is to always buy local meat so I at least feel better about my source and it's quality and lower impact on the environment as a whole. I also won't do soy as I'm concerned about the estrogenic effects, and I hate tempeh, and then so many other protein sources are glutenous, so it was just never going to work for me.

Kat - mama to Clara (9/29/03): & Iris (5/30/06)
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Old 04-29-2006, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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KatSG: we did several test, but no biopsy so we aren't "official": Like I'm going to let them hack into my dd to prove what I already knew? Yeah, right. But blood test (TTG, GAA, IgG and IgA) and genetic testing were positive. She also had dermatitis herpetiformis and the enamel on her teeth didn't form. Her nails and hair didnt' grow-it was very clear before testing.

CLO is SO important-especially with your family history! IT wil really help withthe demyelinization. Several docs are talking about nutritional therapies for MS, have you read about them at all?

We do CLO and fish oil every day. Very important in pregnancy and nursing. Great for growing brains.
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Old 04-29-2006, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh, and wanted to add: The CD testing was a major frustration for me as dd had been off all gluten for two months before testing so the initial results were inconclusive. The genetic testing was the most helpful for us. ALso for the IgG and IgA she came back reactive to all gluten containing grains. The TTG and GAA were borderline. They asked me to put gluten back in her diet for a "higher" reading. Umm, no. She improved rapidly once gluten was removed so there was no reason to do more damage.
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Old 04-29-2006, 12:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery
We do CLO and fish oil every day. Very important in pregnancy and nursing. Great for growing brains.
I read about the benefits of fish oil when I was pregnant with DS, and actually took the leap and bought some capsules. It was pretty weird, but I wanted to do what was best for him (us).
I got awful, knawing stomachaches for days before it ocurred to me that it might be the fish oil. So I stopped taking them and felt better right away.
I can't afford much stomach disruption- eating is still a daily effort for me, especially with a 25-pounder getting most of his food through nursing.

Any tips on introducting such things into a system that's been (ovo-lacto) vegetarian for 31 years? (plus my own time in utero )

(btw, I don't think it was stress from the meat issue- I had made up my mind by then, and capsules are so nice and faceless. )

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Old 04-29-2006, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What brand were you using? It *could* have been the capsules and not the oil, or it could have been rancid oil. There are many experts (natural health experts) that warn against taking CLO in capsules as it is a very difficult process and generally does result in rancidity. DFH and Carlson's seem to come out on top, though Carlson's is now adding synthetic vitamins to theirs.

What do you want to introduce? Are you thinking about meat, or other supplements?
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Old 04-30-2006, 11:10 AM
 
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That's interesting! :
I don't remember the brand- once I realized they were hurting my stomach, I gave them away. A year later, I wonder if my friend would remember getting bellyaches when she took them?

I'm not sure yet whether/how much I want to introduce. Fish oil seems like such a good idea, at least. I take lots of flax/borage, though everyone seems to agree that it's not as good as fish oil.
At the moment, I'm waiting on the Cousens book before I make any bigger decisions. Vegetarianism, I'm realizing, has been central to my identity for my entire life.
But so has depression/introversion/anorexia.

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Old 04-30-2006, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ask her! IF rancidity was the problem, maybe, or *you* could have been reacting to the capsules.

Flax and borage are good, but they require your body to convert the ALA into DHA. CLO is jsut a more direct and "sure" route as it enters your body as DHA.

If you feel strongly about meat, then do read Gabriel Cousens and let us know! I think you'd be okay if you were doing high protein sources like eggs and nuts...maybe think about doing the free metabolic typing test on Mercola's site as Cousens talks about metabolic issues as well (fast vs. slow oxidizing.) Then you'l know how much protein you require in general. THe free one is okay, the one you pay for is really good-but if you don't have $ to spend that isn't helpful. At least the free one gives you an idea.
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Old 05-01-2006, 02:44 PM
 
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Thanks! I'll keep you posted...

DIYer mama to DD 11/00 and DS 6/05- both intact, naturally!
...missing Mothering Magazine...
 
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