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#31 of 72 Old 08-17-2007, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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K used to eat every three hours, and sleep every three hours, so they just naturally coincided and he'd nurse to sleep. I'm going back to school now, so DH is going to have to put K to sleep and I don't want him to need the boob to get to sleep or stay asleep, so I've been offsetting the schedule - feeding him early and then holding/walking him to sleep. This helps a LOT because instead of dozing off, he watches me and interacts with me. Sometimes he pulls off and just smiles at me, then goes back to eating. There are still little twangs of yuck but they are much more manageable now. I'm still mad that I spent $23 on a prescription I'm not going to take, but I'm getting over that.
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#32 of 72 Old 08-18-2007, 02:35 AM
 
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I don't post here much... I just usually lurk. But I couldn't read this and not respond - I had the exact same thing happen to me!! It was exactly as so many of you have described... about 30 seconds before let-down, I'd get this huge, horrible rush of icky feelings - for me it was some sort of mix of dread, panic, hopelessness and other things I couldn't really describe. It was one of the worst things I've ever felt, and I seriously thought I was the only one.

It lasted a long time for me - over a year - but it finally went away, and we're going on 27 months of nursing now. I'm pretty sure it was related to PPD; though I never have talked to anyone about it, I think I've had some level of depression going on for quite awhile now. It's encouraging to hear so many if your success stories in dealing with depression.

OP -- I'm glad to hear from your last post that things are getting more manageable and that you're feeling a bit better. I hope things keep looking up. Thank you for posting about this - it really does help to know we're not alone.
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#33 of 72 Old 08-18-2007, 09:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
Most meds say "do not take while breastfeeding" because the drug companies are covering their backsides. Most drugs actually ARE safe for nursing mothers, despite the warning on the bottle.

I hope somebody with Dr. Hale's book can post about Lexapro in particular- see what he says about that particular drug while nursing.

Ugh. This is the type of attitude that make me cringe. They are not simply covering their backsides. These drugs have BLACK BOX warnings which is the strongest warning a drug can have without being BANNED and pulled off the market.

please go to www.uniteforlife.org.

I nearly lost my life and became a psycho murderer because of Zoloft and it really pisses me off to see so many people promoting it. The drug companies really have done a very effective job haven't they.

The AAP lists these drugs as a concern and a psychiatrist I talked to went so far as to say that women should not nurse if they are taking antidepressants, which I was shocked to hear him say, since they want as many customers as possible.
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#34 of 72 Old 08-18-2007, 11:15 PM
 
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I don't post here much... I just usually lurk. But I couldn't read this and not respond - I had the exact same thing happen to me!! It was exactly as so many of you have described... about 30 seconds before let-down, I'd get this huge, horrible rush of icky feelings - for me it was some sort of mix of dread, panic, hopelessness and other things I couldn't really describe. It was one of the worst things I've ever felt, and I seriously thought I was the only one.

It lasted a long time for me - over a year - but it finally went away, and we're going on 27 months of nursing now. I'm pretty sure it was related to PPD; though I never have talked to anyone about it, I think I've had some level of depression going on for quite awhile now. It's encouraging to hear so many if your success stories in dealing with depression.

OP -- I'm glad to hear from your last post that things are getting more manageable and that you're feeling a bit better. I hope things keep looking up. Thank you for posting about this - it really does help to know we're not alone.
You guys are the best.

I've been having a bit of trouble with PPD these past few weeks. It's hard to separate out what is PPD and what's been caused by actual illness (I had a post-partum infection followed by an MS flare-up)... but when I read this thread I recognized EXACTLY what is going on. I'm in shock.

The one thing I can say is that it's easier now that I know what it is. I start to feel that way, wait for the let-down and sure enough... there it is. Wow. Before, I think my mind was casting around for something to explain those feelings, you know?
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#35 of 72 Old 08-19-2007, 05:21 PM
 
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I suspect the longer this thread survives, the more mamas will show up here saying "Holy cow, I thought I was the only one". It's comforting to know that we're not crazy or alone but super sad knowing so many of us have or are struggling with this and there's little to no information out there on it.

I spoke with both my ND and a CLC as well as an IBCLC about it and had them all read this thread.

My ND has been looking into this with me for a while and had heard of it before but didn't have any direct wisdom. Since then she's worked on it and come up with a big whopping dose of Pulsatilla. So, we'll try that along with my other supps which have pretty much nixed the ppd otherwise but tnot the letdown deal. I'll let ya know how it turns out.

The CLC and the IBCLC were just as stumped. One having heard of it a few times, both assumed it was probably ppd related but had no direct info either. They are however super interested in helping me come up with some answers.

It's disheartening that with the wealth of info out there these days on bfing that there's nothing being said about this. I agree though that it's probably mostly due to the fact that it seems to carry such a "shameful" conotation and I can certainly see how mamas might struggle with feeling like a failure or fearing that someone might think they're crazy or "not a good mom for feeling like that". All of which is simply not true but hard to get away from.

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#36 of 72 Old 08-20-2007, 01:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MilkTrance View Post
yes, word for word, totally how I feel

And why isn't there more help? Hate to be all bitter about it, but I really think it's because it's a woman's issue, so there are all sorts of strange complexities surrounding it, some of which women do to themselves such as questioning their worth as a mother ("if I were a good mom wouldn't I feel great nursing my DC?," "I haven't heard about this before, I must be the only one," etc), so it makes it almost 'shameful' to disclose such things. Also I think there is a real prejudice against emotional/psychological problems. They aren't as easy to deal with, not tangible like the physical. I ALSO think that the reason we have problems with mental illness and emotional/psychological problems is because we associate emotion with women.

From time to time I get this icky feeling of extreme anxiety and irritability that comes on suddenly. I have found it is related to my blood sugar and eating as well as anxiety over tangible things that I can fix. For example I am irritated by the house being a mess, people getting into my personal space and people being passive aggressive. I visited my chiro and she did some emotional work and also reactivated the nerves and energy that was switched off that was controlling my pancreas. Through muscle testing I was able to get off of certain supplements that were making me weaker and onto better ones. I take 3 fish oils a day and also take thyroid support (herbal/ vitamin / mineral mix) and also B12. The B12 was being depleted by breastfeeding.

I also work to come up with solutions to the people being in my space, and I do the chores that other people are passively aggressively ignoring, and I feel better when the house is clean, I am well-fed, etc. Sometimes I also get irritable because I am very hungry or thirsty or haven't eaten well. I feel much better after a meal with lots of veggies and protein and carbs. Also drink lots of pure water and go to a chiro who specializes in applied kinesiology and energy work. THe B12 and switching EFAs helped me a lot. Also get a lot of sunlight and exercise and try to have some fun. And make sure you are getting lots of sleep.
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#37 of 72 Old 08-21-2007, 10:44 AM
 
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The feelings described above in the PP are not PPD, by the way. Those are normal feelings of agitation and stress and the poster outlined some appropriate ways of dealing with them.

PPD is much more serious and does require professional intervention. Anxiety while nursing "could," I guess, be a sign, but it's certainly not enough for a diagnosis.

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#38 of 72 Old 08-21-2007, 12:57 PM
 
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PPD is much more serious and does require professional intervention. Anxiety while nursing "could," I guess, be a sign, but it's certainly not enough for a diagnosis.
I realize you were speaking to the PP specifically but you need to be careful in not offending these other woman suffering from this problem.

When it comes down to it there are many different kinds of PPD and I don't think it's a good idea to criticize anyone's feelings concerning their postpartum emotional state.

No one likes to be feeling horrible after having a baby and have someone say, "yeah, well it's not PPD." Considering so many woman stay silent on the issue, and that this is such an obscure problem, these woman should be encouraged.

What has been being said here is that these woman have very intense feeling, negative feelings while nursing that didn't start until they were postpartum. Textbook PPD it is not but it needs to be taken just as seriously because for these woman it is very real and a very disturbing way to feel.
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#39 of 72 Old 08-21-2007, 04:27 PM
 
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Add me into the "I can't believe I read this" group!

I wish I could say it was a couple minutes of icky feelings, or that it just lasted while baby was on the breast, but for me it was the descent of a black cloud over my mood that refused to go away. It would worsen when baby was nursing, but it did not go away until she was weaned. This did not happen with any of my babies except the last. It got pretty bad to the point where I just wanted to retreat from everyone except the baby and I started to have days where I didn't want to get out of bed. It took a long time before I realized that the intensity of the depression was linked to the frequency and duration of the baby's nursing. We almost weaned, and the black cloud started to lift, but she wasn't ready and so the nursing increased. The black cloud appeared again, with a vengeance. I was off meds by this point and we just had to let the nursing go. I was not functioning for the rest of the family, and frankly, because of reduction surgery she was only getting drops of milk, so I knew she wasn't being nutritionally deprived. We had a good 18 months of nursing.

I'm dreading the reappearance of the black cloud when this next baby is born. I was on the verge of going back on the zoloft (after having been off for about 6 months) when we found out I was pregnant, and I've struggled with my mood all throughout the pregnancy, using Sam-E and Inositol, but I just feel like I'm going to fall off a cliff when this baby comes. I can only comfort nurse, but not nursing her is just not an option I'm willing to take.
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#40 of 72 Old 08-22-2007, 12:27 AM
 
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I was talking today with the IBCLC that I mentioned earlier and she reminded me of something she's said to me when I first approached her about this issue. Oxytocin. She remembered dealing with a mom some years ago who's oxytocin was completely off the charts and she has similar experiences to what we are while nursing. Maybe this may be a good place to start looking for some on this thread... have our respective providers do a work up and check our oxytocin levels as well as thyroids.

I'm getting a lab slip Friday for myself. I'm so determined to figure this out.

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#41 of 72 Old 08-22-2007, 12:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Milkymommi View Post
I was talking today with the IBCLC that I mentioned earlier and she reminded me of something she's said to me when I first approached her about this issue. Oxytocin. She remembered dealing with a mom some years ago who's oxytocin was completely off the charts and she has similar experiences to what we are while nursing. Maybe this may be a good place to start looking for some on this thread... have our respective providers do a work up and check our oxytocin levels as well as thyroids.

I'm getting a lab slip Friday for myself. I'm so determined to figure this out.
You mean the oxytocin was too high???
Thanks for bringing this up. I always wondered about the oxytocin. In fact I used to joke with my husband (ok...I wasn't really joking, just trying to make light of the matter) that the the oxytocin hormone worked the opposite on me. Instead of making me feel all happy and lovey it made me feel just the opposite.
Can a general md check oxytocin levels?
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#42 of 72 Old 08-23-2007, 02:09 AM
 
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OH MY! This thread was brought to my attention by a friend on another board. WOW! I didn't know others felt like this! I always try to nurse at least 15 minutes before I plan to eat or sometime after because if I have to nurse during a meal I lose my appetite. I also feel hopeless and sad when I nurse. Also anxiety. I've been pregnant and/or nursing for 11 years! That's a whole lot of depression I've tried many different treatments from natural to scripts. Currently I'm on Zoloft but hate it. Went to my dr. today and he gave me a script for Celexa but I don't know if I'll take it or not. It can't be much different and what I really want is something natural.

Anyway - thanks for being here and sharing your stories!

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#43 of 72 Old 08-26-2007, 10:09 PM
 
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If you are planning to take the Celexa you need to withdraw appropriately from the Zoloft first. Please visit theroadback.org or tapersafely.org

Please do not stop the zoloft cold turkey.
It's not good to just switch meds like that, without first withdrawing appropriately from the first one. To do so can exacerbate your symptoms and even cause psychosis.

www.uniteforlife.org

If you want something natural you need to look into megadoses of vitamin C, as well as taking additional B6, b12, I have heard good things about Folic Acid as well as amazing results with Omega 3 fatty acids (mercury free certified kinds).

Also aromatherapy with real essential oils, massage, chiropractic, exercise, and lots of sunlight and good sleep.

Don't forget to eat eat eat. Every 2 hours have a protein snack like almonds or something like that to level out your blood sugar. You might also look into Noni juice. And make sure you are not on anything like aspartame, splenda, or MSG etc. Look on the labels. The generic name for splenda is sucralose.
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#44 of 72 Old 08-26-2007, 11:33 PM
 
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Hmm... I had a somewhat similar experience... My second son was born with some unexplained health issues that plagued us for MONTHS before we started to finally get some diagnoses. Once in a while, almost always at night, I'd get up to nurse him and instead of being able to just fall asleep nursing I'd suddenly get this incredibly intense anxiety. I just HAD to get that baby off of me and I HAD to get out of the room!! It was so intense that it honestly scared me!! And then of course the guilt feelings came then...why can't I feed my son, what kind of a mom am I...etc. Of course he'd start crying because I wasn't feeding him, which would just add to my anxiety. I even tried nursing him in other areas of the house...the glider, the couch, upstairs, downstairs... I tried walking around while nursing him, I tried watching some tv... Nothing worked. I'd start to drift off to sleep and then BOOM, the anxiety would hit. It was like an all-body restless leg syndrome from pregnancy (anyone experience that??)

I'm sure that it was partially caused by the incredible stress associated with his illness (and I have a 2 year old, also...and we were moving...and I was about to go back to work...) There was a lot going on in our lives right then, so I guess it had to manifest somewhere. Night time nursings were terrible for a while there. I would dread night time.

And then it just went away. Not sure why. But wow...

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#45 of 72 Old 08-27-2007, 01:30 AM
 
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If you are planning to take the Celexa you need to withdraw appropriately from the Zoloft first. Please visit theroadback.org or tapersafely.org

Please do not stop the zoloft cold turkey.
It's not good to just switch meds like that, without first withdrawing appropriately from the first one. To do so can exacerbate your symptoms and even cause psychosis.
See, I thought it was odd that he recommended I just go on Celexa without even weaning from Zoloft. I'm doing the cut in half thing right now. Pretty sure he'd have me committed if I called and asked for a teeny script. I don't know what I'll do in a couple of weeks when it's time to cut in half again. Those pills are pretty darn small, LOL.

I've been taking small doses of the "omega mom" capsules. Does anyone else know about them? I never know what to get or how one brand compares iwth another. Would love advice on that.

I drink two emergen-c packets/day which is huge doses of vitamin C and b vitamins. I try to remember to take my floradix. Again it has b vitamins and vitamin c in it, I think. I'm like a vitamin factory over here I hope I'm getting some of the right ones......

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#46 of 72 Old 08-27-2007, 01:44 AM
 
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Just wanted to add that I also have the "opposite-oxytocin" effect. here's a thread i had found months ago when my dd was younger and this was more of a problem for me: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=419465

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#47 of 72 Old 08-27-2007, 01:52 AM
 
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ekblad it sounds like you are taking the right things. Fish oil has done WONDERS for me. I can't say enough about it really.

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#48 of 72 Old 08-27-2007, 07:48 PM
 
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I noticed on The Road Back website that they recommend a number of supplements. I found a website that sells them but they are really pricey. Now, if they worked I'd be willing to sacrafice other things to use them but I wonder if it's necessary? I mean, could I do the same things myself for significantly cheaper?

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#49 of 72 Old 08-27-2007, 11:57 PM
 
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You mean the oxytocin was too high???
Thanks for bringing this up. I always wondered about the oxytocin. In fact I used to joke with my husband (ok...I wasn't really joking, just trying to make light of the matter) that the the oxytocin hormone worked the opposite on me. Instead of making me feel all happy and lovey it made me feel just the opposite.
Can a general md check oxytocin levels?
Yep, she said it was incredibly high. I would imagine that anyone who can write a lab slip would be able to have that checked... but don't quote me I'm just guessing. Makes sense to me anyway, kwim?

There's got to be something to the "opposite effect" idea. I just hope there's a way to reverse this if it ends up being the issue. Seems like there must be a way to bring down the oxytocin levels... but one has to wonder wth would they be so high? What causes something like that? More research... if anyone comes up with anything please do post as I really feel like this thread can be a wonderful resource.

Lisa- thanks for adding that other thread! This apparently isn't the first MDC conversation that included a bunch of mamas trying to figure out what the heck is going on with our bodies.

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#50 of 72 Old 08-28-2007, 10:46 AM
 
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I have emailed Dr Newman becuase we needed to ask an authority on the subject after not getting any answers from IBCLCs and LLL. He answers all his emails personally so I am hopful that he may have an answer for us. I will let you know!
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#51 of 72 Old 08-28-2007, 10:59 AM
 
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I have emailed Dr Newman becuase we needed to ask an authority on the subject after not getting any answers from IBCLCs and LLL. He answers all his emails personally so I am hopful that he may have an answer for us. I will let you know!
Yes - keep us updated! Thanks for doing that!

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#52 of 72 Old 08-28-2007, 12:41 PM
 
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Yes - keep us updated! Thanks for doing that!
:
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#53 of 72 Old 08-28-2007, 01:39 PM
 
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Well, I am totally unimpressed now. His reply was prompt but wimpy:

Dear Ms (name),

I have not heard of this symptom in particular, but many symptoms are
associated with the milk ejection reflex, such as profuse sweating,
headache, dizziness that goes away after a few minutes. This usually lasts
about 6 or so weeks and then disappears, though on occasion it lasts longer.

I would hope this is a variation of this syndrome, but I cannot say for
sure. Maybe you should get an evaluation from your doctor.

Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC


Then he goes on to promote his book, website and DVD in a standard, non-personal form email.

The only thing this response kind of helps with it is explains that my BO, dizziness and headaches could be related to this other thing. I thought the BO was postpartum hormones (well, in a way it is!) and that dizziness and headaches were blood sugar problems. Maybe they are all related. I have an appointment with my midwife but I wasn't planning on mentioning it, as I feel that if you haven't experienced it then you can't take it seriously. I feel like I am getting the brush off about it from everyone expect you guys. My DH tries to be sympathetic but...
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#54 of 72 Old 08-28-2007, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Maybe he needs a jillion more e-mails asking him to look into it. Obviously you were the first.
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#55 of 72 Old 08-30-2007, 04:11 PM
 
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nak
just wanna say me too me too
strongest n the early months, still happens once in a blue moon

but yea! I made it to 12mo and beyond!

and the feelings at times were so strong i was suicidal feeling - i hated it but began to realize it was temporary ifyouwill and jus dealt with it but I had heard it was 'normal for some moms' and is one of those reasons some women just can't nurse

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#56 of 72 Old 08-30-2007, 04:18 PM
 
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Well, I am totally unimpressed now. His reply was prompt but wimpy:

Dear Ms (name),

I have not heard of this symptom in particular, but many symptoms are
associated with the milk ejection reflex, such as profuse sweating,
headache, dizziness that goes away after a few minutes. This usually lasts
about 6 or so weeks and then disappears, though on occasion it lasts longer.

I would hope this is a variation of this syndrome, but I cannot say for
sure. Maybe you should get an evaluation from your doctor.

Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC


Then he goes on to promote his book, website and DVD in a standard, non-personal form email.
...

could we have that website address so maybe we could flood him with "education" - what an ass!

Tea drinking Momma::: Grady 8/06 and : Coralynn 8/09
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#57 of 72 Old 08-30-2007, 04:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ekblad9 View Post
I noticed on The Road Back website that they recommend a number of supplements. I found a website that sells them but they are really pricey. Now, if they worked I'd be willing to sacrafice other things to use them but I wonder if it's necessary? I mean, could I do the same things myself for significantly cheaper?
I never order supplements online. I did buy some of that Super Barley Formula at our local health store for my SIL when she was coming off Ritalin and Wellbutrin.

Breggin recommends the 10% method of withdrawal in his book: Your Drug May Be Your Problem: How and Why to stop taking psychiatric drugs.

Basically you get a prescription for a 10% lower dose, then you take that for 7-10 days and keep doing that until you are off. But this is usually if you have been on the drug for quite a while. If you have only been on it a few weeks you can pretty much expect it to be much easier. When I tapered off Zoloft I went from 150 to 100 for two weeks, then from 100 to 50 for a week, and then from 50 to 25 for a few days and then stopped. The problem with the 10 % method I've found is that many drug companies do not have dose increments that small, probably because they want you to have problems stopping the drugs.
If you're on a lower dose or haven't been on it very long it shouldn't be as hard.

The super barley formula is basically a super greens formulation which you can buy basically anywhere that health supplements are sold. And Omega 3s, I would take at least 3 per day or more. Calcium / Magnesium can help with sleep if you have insomnia during withdrawal.

Expect bad things during withdrawal, you may need a more supportive doctor or a support network at home and locally if it isn't going well. But realize it's most likely withdrawal and not a relapse.www.breggin.com

Another thing to keep in mind is whether if you had a really bad reaction to Zoloft or it didn't work for you whether it is worth trying Celexa. The drugs are basically copycats of Prozac, with one of the only differences being that Prozac has a fluoride atom that often breaks off of it.

You might want to try the Omega 3 and Barley Formula and other things for a while after tapering and see how it goes.
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#58 of 72 Old 08-30-2007, 05:08 PM
 
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Hmm... I had a somewhat similar experience... My second son was born with some unexplained health issues that plagued us for MONTHS before we started to finally get some diagnoses. Once in a while, almost always at night, I'd get up to nurse him and instead of being able to just fall asleep nursing I'd suddenly get this incredibly intense anxiety. I just HAD to get that baby off of me and I HAD to get out of the room!! It was so intense that it honestly scared me!! And then of course the guilt feelings came then...why can't I feed my son, what kind of a mom am I...etc. Of course he'd start crying because I wasn't feeding him, which would just add to my anxiety. I even tried nursing him in other areas of the house...the glider, the couch, upstairs, downstairs... I tried walking around while nursing him, I tried watching some tv... Nothing worked. I'd start to drift off to sleep and then BOOM, the anxiety would hit. It was like an all-body restless leg syndrome from pregnancy (anyone experience that??)

I'm sure that it was partially caused by the incredible stress associated with his illness (and I have a 2 year old, also...and we were moving...and I was about to go back to work...) There was a lot going on in our lives right then, so I guess it had to manifest somewhere. Night time nursings were terrible for a while there. I would dread night time.

And then it just went away. Not sure why. But wow...
I get those feelings sometimes (except for the restless leg syndrome part). Relaxation and "I'm in control" messages have helped. Sometimes I have to have my husband take the kids away while I clean the house... usually I find this is related to the house being a total disaster and me being hungry, thirsty, dirty, and physcially uncomfortable plus not having a lot of fun sometimes.

Sometimes the heebie jeebies can be caused as a side effect of SSRI drugs. It's called Akathisia.
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#59 of 72 Old 08-30-2007, 05:12 PM
 
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Well, I am totally unimpressed now. His reply was prompt but wimpy:

Dear Ms (name),

I have not heard of this symptom in particular, but many symptoms are
associated with the milk ejection reflex, such as profuse sweating,
headache, dizziness that goes away after a few minutes. This usually lasts
about 6 or so weeks and then disappears, though on occasion it lasts longer.

I would hope this is a variation of this syndrome, but I cannot say for
sure. Maybe you should get an evaluation from your doctor.

Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC


Then he goes on to promote his book, website and DVD in a standard, non-personal form email.

The only thing this response kind of helps with it is explains that my BO, dizziness and headaches could be related to this other thing. I thought the BO was postpartum hormones (well, in a way it is!) and that dizziness and headaches were blood sugar problems. Maybe they are all related. I have an appointment with my midwife but I wasn't planning on mentioning it, as I feel that if you haven't experienced it then you can't take it seriously. I feel like I am getting the brush off about it from everyone expect you guys. My DH tries to be sympathetic but...

A highly skilled chiropractor can determine whether the hormones are out of balance. Look into applied kinesiology. My chiropractor can always tell based on nerve points and muscle testing whether it's a pancreas issue, something with the pineal or pituitary gland, or whatever. She removes the interference and tests to see which homeopathic or nutritional remedies I need. She has frequently recommended Omega 3 and CoFactors, B Vitamins, specific foods, and baths with apple cider vinegar to detox the body.
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#60 of 72 Old 08-30-2007, 05:15 PM
 
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my understanding is you can't od on omegas. :-) woo hoo! so, the more the merrier?!
best wishes and it absolutely gets better.
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