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#1 of 24 Old 08-24-2010, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So, M is a really good sleeper and has been since birth. I couldn't ask for more, but I am going to, haha.

We put her to bed at around 7:30. Which is a great time and I like it that it gives my husband and I a few hours to ourselves. The only problem is, that she won't actually fall asleep until 9 or so. It's draining on me, as I have things to do after she goes to bed and I want to unwind from her. She isn't high strung or anything, she just says that "every night I cry and can't go to bed"

We have a little rhythm where she does her teeth, change for bed, I read a chapter out of a borrowed library book(charlottes web right now and Little House books next) then we snuggle and she goes to sleep. The problem being is she doesn't shut up. OMG! Throughout the story she is talking, throughout the snuggle she is talking, after I leave she is talking. Talking talking talking talking talking! She is a lot like me when I was a child. My mind would keep me up with all the wonderful things in it and even still to this day. I have tried stopping the story and putting her straight to bed when she doesn't stop talking, but she just cries and talks more. She is keeping herself up with the talking. I tried cuddling her to sleep but she won't sleep because she just wants to talk to me.

What can I do to calm her mind? Her body is tired, but her mind is going going going. We do a bath, but I am wondering if I should use maybe some lavender in it? I was going to burn some in my oil burner in the house after dinner. I'm trying to figure out ways to induce quiet time o that she will go to bed. She needs the sleep because she won't wake up in the morning(yesterday she woke up at 9am!!)

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#2 of 24 Old 08-24-2010, 04:08 PM
 
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How about a lavender candle and a guided meditation? My daughter is a talker, too . . . but not to the point you've described. Since she has that predisposition, I might try stories that invoke less of the imagination. I think that a chapter book is a bit advanced for this age, but, I could be wrong there. My daughter loves stories about her and her best friend riding unicorns, flying through the air, landing on clouds, coming back to earth, encountering fairies, etc. If she is worked up about something, I try to give her images of butterflies or flowers being carried by the air and gently coming down to rest on the earth. That sort of thing. If she tells me she is scared, I call the fairies of the night to protect her while she sleeps.

ETA: Some nights we offer chamomile tea with dinner!

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#3 of 24 Old 08-24-2010, 04:19 PM
 
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I COULD HAVE WRITTEN THIS POST!!!!!!!!!!!!

I struggle with bed time, but it's getting better!

My daughter loves to talk, so I just gave myself and extra 20 minutes before bed. She's allowed 3 "stories" which I make up myself, and if she asks for more I copy down the IDEA for the story and save it for the next night. IE: if she's like "tell me one more story about a dog at the fair" I will write that down so she can see it, and we will tell it the next day.

The bath helps, but I tend to shower. That's how I get my "shower time" in too. With a toddler next to me/splashing at my feet. I also make her a warm milk to have while we tell stories, and when they are done I'm just firm. And since we cosleep I "pretend" to sleep. We curl up, get cozy, and I let myself doze off so she can get into the grove. If I'm quiet, she sometimes is too.


And. There are nights she talks forever and I'm too tired to care

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#4 of 24 Old 08-24-2010, 05:30 PM
 
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Maybe this is way out there but is it possible, with your schedules, to put her to bed even *earlier*? If you want her asleep by 7:30 so she wakes up in the morning, perhaps have her go to bed at 6:30? My kids go to sleep VERY early but it works with my schedule because I'm home during the day and I don't have to feel like I'm missing out on time with them while I'm at work etc. We start our bedtime routine at 3, yegads. Dinner at 3, bath at 3:30, jammies and snack at 4, stories at 4:30, in bed by 5, then they're usually asleep not long after that. But they get up at 5 too, so they have to be in bed that early.
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#5 of 24 Old 08-24-2010, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Maybe this is way out there but is it possible, with your schedules, to put her to bed even *earlier*? If you want her asleep by 7:30 so she wakes up in the morning, perhaps have her go to bed at 6:30? My kids go to sleep VERY early but it works with my schedule because I'm home during the day and I don't have to feel like I'm missing out on time with them while I'm at work etc. We start our bedtime routine at 3, yegads. Dinner at 3, bath at 3:30, jammies and snack at 4, stories at 4:30, in bed by 5, then they're usually asleep not long after that. But they get up at 5 too, so they have to be in bed that early.
I was thinking about starting the bedtime at 6.30. Any earlier and it would mess with the whole family dynamic.

thanks for the suggestion.

lady Mummy to Smoosh, 8-2005. Waldorf inspired homeschooler and crazy knitter!
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#6 of 24 Old 08-24-2010, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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How about a lavender candle and a guided meditation? My daughter is a talker, too . . . but not to the point you've described. Since she has that predisposition, I might try stories that invoke less of the imagination. I think that a chapter book is a bit advanced for this age, but, I could be wrong there. My daughter loves stories about her and her best friend riding unicorns, flying through the air, landing on clouds, coming back to earth, encountering fairies, etc. If she is worked up about something, I try to give her images of butterflies or flowers being carried by the air and gently coming down to rest on the earth. That sort of thing. If she tells me she is scared, I call the fairies of the night to protect her while she sleeps.

ETA: Some nights we offer chamomile tea with dinner!
I tried that, for a week. I about lost my mind. What happens with that is that she starts interjecting into the guided meditation, asks questions about everything and it makes her go more and more and more.

But the idea about the lavender candle is a good one and I will have to pick one up, thanks!

lady Mummy to Smoosh, 8-2005. Waldorf inspired homeschooler and crazy knitter!
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#7 of 24 Old 08-24-2010, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I COULD HAVE WRITTEN THIS POST!!!!!!!!!!!!

I struggle with bed time, but it's getting better!

My daughter loves to talk, so I just gave myself and extra 20 minutes before bed. She's allowed 3 "stories" which I make up myself, and if she asks for more I copy down the IDEA for the story and save it for the next night. IE: if she's like "tell me one more story about a dog at the fair" I will write that down so she can see it, and we will tell it the next day.

The bath helps, but I tend to shower. That's how I get my "shower time" in too. With a toddler next to me/splashing at my feet. I also make her a warm milk to have while we tell stories, and when they are done I'm just firm. And since we cosleep I "pretend" to sleep. We curl up, get cozy, and I let myself doze off so she can get into the grove. If I'm quiet, she sometimes is too.


And. There are nights she talks forever and I'm too tired to care
I like the idea about something warm to drink. I will try that tonight. We just got some AMAZING local honey in so I can put that in a warm peppermint tea for her. Yummy!

lady Mummy to Smoosh, 8-2005. Waldorf inspired homeschooler and crazy knitter!
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#8 of 24 Old 08-24-2010, 06:00 PM
 
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I could have written this too. DS is 4.5, and very chatty. We've done yoga and meditation most of his life, so he's familiar with learning to calm the breath. Slow deep breathing, and having him focus on his 3rd eye point works well, but we do this together as we cosleep. And seriously, this kid has an ENORMOUS amount of energy, and does not like to be quiet.at.all.
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#9 of 24 Old 08-24-2010, 06:07 PM
 
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My five year old does the same thing. Her bedtime routine starts at 7:30 and she's frequently up until 10 and it's not uncommon for her to not get to sleep until 11. It's draining and there is never a break from having a child around.

I try not to make a deal out of it. I've had insomnia my whole life and can remember my parents being really annoyed at me because I wouldn't go to sleep when it was not something I could control. For years I felt like the bad kid because I couldn't sleep when I was supposed to.

Although it's difficult I have to try and be as understanding as possible with my daughter. She often does not get up until 9-10am and I have to learn to be ok with that. It just means postponing our school work and errands until then.

One thing that seems to help her is having the entire household going to bed when we want her to go to bed, it's tough for her to not only have trouble falling asleep but also know that the adults are hanging out and watching tv while while she's having these problems. I haven't done it with her yet but when I was a child my parents gave me a clock radio and cassettes of books on tape for me to listen to when I couldn't sleep. I would spend hours listening to them.
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#10 of 24 Old 08-24-2010, 10:04 PM
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here are a few things that i would try:

dimming the lights--this helps with helping the skin "go to sleep." make sure that you close the curtains to outside light once the sun goes down (or should, if you live in, say, alaska), and keep lights in the house on very low.

aromatherapy pillow-- make a pillow that is 1/2 hops and 1/2 lavender. doesn't have to be huge, btu this combination is a used by a lot of insomniacs to help them get to rest. it works *fabulously*.

ritualize bedtime without an activity. reading is actually a very active process and a story can also be active. we created a ritual of quiet before bed for DS, where we use a candle. this signifies to him that it is close to bed time.

here are our fire fairy songs:

To light the candle: fire fairy down you fly, from the stars up in the sky. bring a drop of golden light, make our table shiny and bright.

To blow out the candle: fire fairy up you fly, up into the dark night sky. back to the stars where you belong, so we may rest the whole night long.

so, we light this candle and sing the song, and then we go to the bed where we tuck him in and cuddle. we simply look at the candle and watch the light, and just breathing together. DS will either nurse or cuddle, and i'm working toward doing some quiet crafting while he goes down on his own.

after 30 minutes with the candle, we softly sing the verse, and then blow the candle out. he's usually asleep before we blow out the candle so we don't always do that song.

and then that's it. he's usually asleep by 7:30. some nights, nothing works, but most nights, if we stay on task, it works out great.
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#11 of 24 Old 08-24-2010, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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here are a few things that i would try:

dimming the lights--this helps with helping the skin "go to sleep." make sure that you close the curtains to outside light once the sun goes down (or should, if you live in, say, alaska), and keep lights in the house on very low.

aromatherapy pillow-- make a pillow that is 1/2 hops and 1/2 lavender. doesn't have to be huge, btu this combination is a used by a lot of insomniacs to help them get to rest. it works *fabulously*.

ritualize bedtime without an activity. reading is actually a very active process and a story can also be active. we created a ritual of quiet before bed for DS, where we use a candle. this signifies to him that it is close to bed time.

here are our fire fairy songs:

To light the candle: fire fairy down you fly, from the stars up in the sky. bring a drop of golden light, make our table shiny and bright.

To blow out the candle: fire fairy up you fly, up into the dark night sky. back to the stars where you belong, so we may rest the whole night long.

so, we light this candle and sing the song, and then we go to the bed where we tuck him in and cuddle. we simply look at the candle and watch the light, and just breathing together. DS will either nurse or cuddle, and i'm working toward doing some quiet crafting while he goes down on his own.

after 30 minutes with the candle, we softly sing the verse, and then blow the candle out. he's usually asleep before we blow out the candle so we don't always do that song.

and then that's it. he's usually asleep by 7:30. some nights, nothing works, but most nights, if we stay on task, it works out great.
I like that a lot. Mind if I steal your verse?

lady Mummy to Smoosh, 8-2005. Waldorf inspired homeschooler and crazy knitter!
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#12 of 24 Old 08-24-2010, 11:27 PM
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please, use the verse!

also, for reading, we use the tea pot. we read twice a day: 10 am until 10:20, and then 4:00-4:20. We put on the tea pot and read. then when the tea pot whistles, we turn it off (ds turns it off), and then we have tea and he moves onto the next activity on his own (usually active). this is on mornings when we are home, btw. this allows us to do reading time in a contained way, otherwise he was having us read to him all day long over and over and over.
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#13 of 24 Old 08-25-2010, 12:18 PM
 
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i've heard the "7o'clock bedtime" book is very very good and addresses lots of issues at bedtime and day to day stuff as a whole. I know you can pick it up very cheaply second hand from amazon. For under a £1 in the UK and I'm sure it will be similar price i the USA.

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#14 of 24 Old 08-25-2010, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, so we had some progress last night.

I think what is happening is that we are eating dinner to late for her. We eat about 6 and then we start doing bed by 7. I don't think it is enough time for her. Last night we ate, she did her washing up(hands face and teeth) we drank some nice warm peppermint tea and papa brought her into bed with him and I read a story. I read the story, then I left, she came out once, asked for a drink( I forgot her drink. She likes to have one by her bedside) and I went back in 10 minutes later and she was out.

Also, I am finding that the days we engage her more, do more things with her, bedtime is easier. So I am thinking that the noise at bedtime is her wanting more attention throughout the day.

Thanks ladies! We are going to keep adding more things in to our bedtime routine.

Also, I think her room needs to be less choatic. Thanks!

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#15 of 24 Old 08-25-2010, 01:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
here are a few things that i would try:

dimming the lights--this helps with helping the skin "go to sleep." make sure that you close the curtains to outside light once the sun goes down (or should, if you live in, say, alaska), and keep lights in the house on very low.

aromatherapy pillow-- make a pillow that is 1/2 hops and 1/2 lavender. doesn't have to be huge, btu this combination is a used by a lot of insomniacs to help them get to rest. it works *fabulously*.

ritualize bedtime without an activity. reading is actually a very active process and a story can also be active. we created a ritual of quiet before bed for DS, where we use a candle. this signifies to him that it is close to bed time.

here are our fire fairy songs:

To light the candle: fire fairy down you fly, from the stars up in the sky. bring a drop of golden light, make our table shiny and bright.

To blow out the candle: fire fairy up you fly, up into the dark night sky. back to the stars where you belong, so we may rest the whole night long.

so, we light this candle and sing the song, and then we go to the bed where we tuck him in and cuddle. we simply look at the candle and watch the light, and just breathing together. DS will either nurse or cuddle, and i'm working toward doing some quiet crafting while he goes down on his own.

after 30 minutes with the candle, we softly sing the verse, and then blow the candle out. he's usually asleep before we blow out the candle so we don't always do that song.

and then that's it. he's usually asleep by 7:30. some nights, nothing works, but most nights, if we stay on task, it works out great.
I remember seeing this pillow on 'Make your own drugs' on a UK programme about a year ago. I wanted to make one then bu didn't know where to buy hops from! Can you buy them on line? I really had no idea where to get them from!

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#16 of 24 Old 08-25-2010, 01:45 PM
 
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Maybe this is way out there but is it possible, with your schedules, to put her to bed even *earlier*? If you want her asleep by 7:30 so she wakes up in the morning, perhaps have her go to bed at 6:30? My kids go to sleep VERY early but it works with my schedule because I'm home during the day and I don't have to feel like I'm missing out on time with them while I'm at work etc. We start our bedtime routine at 3, yegads. Dinner at 3, bath at 3:30, jammies and snack at 4, stories at 4:30, in bed by 5, then they're usually asleep not long after that. But they get up at 5 too, so they have to be in bed that early.
my children go to bed very early too.Family candlelight teatime at 5 pm. Down from tea 5.30. Straight in warm lavender bath.

On the way singing 'Upstairs to Fairy land, mind how you go etc etc and 'oh dream faries come to me, oh dream faries stay with me etc etc

Into PJ's by 6pm. Two stories and candlelight blessing and kissed goodnight by 6.15 pm. During term time when K is at school she is fast asleep by 6.30 pm.When she is on holidays she 'reads' until about 7.00 pm and then goes to sleep.

They both wake 7 am next morning.

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#17 of 24 Old 08-25-2010, 01:49 PM
 
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Okay, so we had some progress last night.

I think what is happening is that we are eating dinner to late for her. We eat about 6 and then we start doing bed by 7. I don't think it is enough time for her. Last night we ate, she did her washing up(hands face and teeth) we drank some nice warm peppermint tea and papa brought her into bed with him and I read a story. I read the story, then I left, she came out once, asked for a drink( I forgot her drink. She likes to have one by her bedside) and I went back in 10 minutes later and she was out.

Also, I am finding that the days we engage her more, do more things with her, bedtime is easier. So I am thinking that the noise at bedtime is her wanting more attention throughout the day.

Thanks ladies! We are going to keep adding more things in to our bedtime routine.

Also, I think her room needs to be less choatic. Thanks!
Yeah for progress!

Mama to add 10/05; ds 3/09, and two angels
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#18 of 24 Old 08-25-2010, 03:39 PM
 
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Hey Mamas! The insomnia pillow sounded wonderful for my antsy almost 4 yr old. I started looking at getting the supplies to make them and found the little aromatherapy pillows already made (and very inexpensive!) on etsy!

Do a query for "hops aromatherapy" and there are a couple of people that pop up. (I just bought one, so I you can't have mine! )

ps. The etsy ones seemed very small, but when I looked up the DIY instructions they were using the same size and saying to put it under or near your pillow, so seems to be the same idea.
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#19 of 24 Old 08-25-2010, 10:04 PM
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you can order them online, usually herbal shops online should have them. and yes, they were featured on that show (which is a great show!). and they do work. it's crazy.

i also realized that about hawk. during a time when we werer first here when we were both working really hard, we had very little family time, and very little time just focused on him. i got to work on a solid rhythm and he immediately settled down at bed time.

i think that it's a good insight.
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#20 of 24 Old 08-25-2010, 11:11 PM
 
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I would switch from peppermint to chamomile tea. Peppermint can be very energinizing.
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#21 of 24 Old 08-26-2010, 12:30 AM
 
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Taking notes......this is a jackpot of good ideas!
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#22 of 24 Old 08-26-2010, 02:37 AM
 
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I haven't read all replies so apologies in advance if I'm doubling up.

I also like giving chamomile with a little honey - apparently honey is good to help the "excarnation" process which people talk about in relation to going to sleep. I have a feeling it's not really recommended for real littlies for this reason though (I'm guessing here, but under threes - anyone else know?). Or perhaps only in small doses at those particular times. Milk and honey is a good one too.

Do you have a lyre or something that you can play gently at bedtime (only listening while the instrument is singing?).

Lavendar bath milk works well - if nothing else then just for us as parents at that frazzled time of day!

I think it's a positive thing to go through the day's events, a useful habit to nurture, but only at a particular time - it's good to have that scheduled in at some point so they know they're going to have a chance to be heard.

I second an earlier bed time, though it can add to the stress.

That's all I can think of right now.
good luck!
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#23 of 24 Old 08-26-2010, 08:43 AM
 
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I think it's a positive thing to go through the day's events, a useful habit to nurture, but only at a particular time - it's good to have that scheduled in at some point so they know they're going to have a chance to be heard.

good luck!
what would be a good way of opening up this conversation? We don't do this and i'm not sure of a good opening to the conversation ♥

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#24 of 24 Old 08-26-2010, 09:02 AM
 
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what would be a good way of opening up this conversation? We don't do this and i'm not sure of a good opening to the conversation ♥
We don't actually need to schedule it in as such, it just seems to happen. DH and I both have our goodnight cuddle time with him and I guess he sometimes says different things to both of us as we often compare notes. If he doesn't say anything then I'll just make a comment sometimes or ask a specific question and the conversation will go on from there. E.g. it was fun doing x today... or was z at school today? nothing too heavy! Sometimes I might pick out something he did that I was really impressed with and others I might talk about how we could do something better the next day, but not refer to the behaviour negatively, just in terms of what we can strive for. We usually finish with looking forward to one or two expected events for the coming day.
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