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#31 of 58 Old 02-17-2011, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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oh no you didn't sound snarkey AT ALL.  no no no!  love.gif

You're right, when some Waldorf school and teachers still getting too controlling, parents like me getting kind of weirded out.

Our school is majorly talking about implementing UNIFORMS!!!  Just because of a few grade 8 girls are dressing terribly, the rest of us may have to suffer!  And when I say terribly I mean (you know um revealing).

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#32 of 58 Old 02-17-2011, 10:38 AM
 
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I'm curious as to why you would keep paying money to send your daughter to a school you have problem after problem with.

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#33 of 58 Old 02-17-2011, 10:54 AM
 
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I would firmly point out to the teacher that it's not up to her to decide how your daughter wears her hair. As I have done before and will do again should the situation arises. Unless someone thing is clearly a violation of the dress code, the teacher has no right to dictate what any child does with his or her hair.



 Yes, this is your decision, not the teacher's.

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#34 of 58 Old 02-17-2011, 10:55 AM
 
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Yes I agree.  I chatted with her after school and she backed down.  :)


Good!
 

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#35 of 58 Old 02-17-2011, 10:45 PM
 
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I think maybe we are at the same school (I just do parent and tot.)  Your dd's hair looks just like all the other girls her age I see around the school!  I have actually found the atmosphere to be a bit stifling when it comes to following the 'rules' as well.  Not that they don't have a place, but there seems to be an emphasis on doing what the teacher says even when its a grey area.


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#36 of 58 Old 02-17-2011, 11:53 PM
 
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Did the teacher say why it was not appropriate? I can see if the girls are starting to pay more attention to their hair, etc and thus being distracted from academic work. The reason for the dress code is not conformity, but freedom to learn unencumbered by needless distractions.

 

My dd is in the first grade and she has learned that if she braids her hair after  her bath at night her hair will have funky waves in the morning. The teacher has never mentioned it. And my dd sees me put on makeup and do my hair every morning, so she wants to wear makeup so badly. However, if it became an issue with the hair I would respect the teacher's desires. 

 

Another undercurrent here is the amount of respect and deference given to the teacher. I hope any dissent was done outside of the presence of the children. Even if you disagree with the teacher, there is a time and place for it. Undermining the teacher's authority for the sake of winning a petty argument/ power struggle  is damaging. 

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#37 of 58 Old 02-18-2011, 08:34 AM
 
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I'm really glad our WS does not have this level of involvement in the kids' lives!


I dont think it is involvement in their entire "lives" just what works and what doesnt work *at school* and in the classroom. Again, I am happy the teachers and staff put so much thought into what is important and what affects children. I doubt you get that anywhere else...

 

At home, we wear nail polish, play with make-up, etc.

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#38 of 58 Old 02-18-2011, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm curious as to why you would keep paying money to send your daughter to a school you have problem after problem with.



because on the whole, she's happy there.  And no matter where we are at, I'm going to find something to bitch about. :)

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#39 of 58 Old 02-18-2011, 01:16 PM
 
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because on the whole, she's happy there.  And no matter where we are at, I'm going to find something to bitch about. :)


lol.gif Fair enough.

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#40 of 58 Old 02-18-2011, 01:59 PM
 
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Saw this thread in the forum list. Can't speak to the Waldorf side of things, but hair-wise she looks like her hair was braided wet.

 

I could see the front chunk of hair being an issue if she kept brushing it out of her face. But only if all loose hair is prohibited.

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#41 of 58 Old 02-19-2011, 11:12 AM
 
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Frankly, I have seen schools where I wish uniforms were done, though it doesn't seem very "Waldorf."  Truly the issue is the school not enforcing their dress codes. If you have a dress code, enforce it. If you don't want to enforce one, don't have one.  I think that is where problems come in.  And I'm sure we all know the situation of "Well so&so gets to wear xyz...." and the misery it entails (though for me it was in MY childhood when I wasn't allowed to dress like a tramp. LOL).

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#42 of 58 Old 02-19-2011, 01:53 PM
 
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I did go to a school with a very strict dress code, and believe me, it really doesn't solve much.  Kids, esp. preteen and teens can find a hundred ways to get around a dress code, and it does nothing to eliminate classism issues-someone always has a more trendy, in fashion way of meeting the dress code shoes, or socks, or blouse, or whatever happens to be regulated.  In a waldorf school my bet would be a divide among organic vs. non-organic clothing, or fair trade suppliers, or European brands, etc.  Just saying, based on my experience.

 

I think what the OP is running into is the age in which kids start to express their own ideas about what they want to do with their hair and body and clothing.  It's a pretty normal thing for kids to do, although the way in which parents meet their kid's expression of self determination, and how supportive they are, varies.  I can say for sure that going to a ws won't keep your kid from knowing or caring about curing irons and hair-do's.

 

I think the OP is well within her rights as a mom to reject the teacher's input about how her daughter styles her hair. She's the teacher, not the parent.

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#43 of 58 Old 02-19-2011, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
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because on the whole, she's happy there.  And no matter where we are at, I'm going to find something to bitch about. :)




lol.gif Fair enough.



redface.gif

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#44 of 58 Old 02-20-2011, 08:17 AM
 
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Honestly, I think you have to think hard about this level of nit-picking about appearances at this age....  I have a friend with a kid in Waldorf in 7th grade (has been there since kindy), and she is seriously rebelling at the level of control she feels her teacher is exacting on the kids.  She feels it is infringing on her life outside of school, and she has become quite angry and resistant.  If you don't let kids express themselves a bit, you risk making them feel they have no voice or individuality.  At least, this is what this child feels.

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#45 of 58 Old 02-20-2011, 03:00 PM
 
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I did go to a school with a very strict dress code, and believe me, it really doesn't solve much.  Kids, esp. preteen and teens can find a hundred ways to get around a dress code, and it does nothing to eliminate classism issues-someone always has a more trendy, in fashion way of meeting the dress code shoes, or socks, or blouse, or whatever happens to be regulated.  In a waldorf school my bet would be a divide among organic vs. non-organic clothing, or fair trade suppliers, or European brands, etc.  Just saying, based on my experience.

 

I think what the OP is running into is the age in which kids start to express their own ideas about what they want to do with their hair and body and clothing.  It's a pretty normal thing for kids to do, although the way in which parents meet their kid's expression of self determination, and how supportive they are, varies.  I can say for sure that going to a ws won't keep your kid from knowing or caring about curing irons and hair-do's.

 

I think the OP is well within her rights as a mom to reject the teacher's input about how her daughter styles her hair. She's the teacher, not the parent.



I think most WS dress codes attempt to keep appearances "age-appropriate" - which is quite hard to do these days. Of course, older children will still want to express themselves but this is usually allowed in the upper grades (6-8) which is great IMO. We have friends with older teenage children and they wear make-up and different attire on non-school days...they know what is allowed *at school* and what isnt. Pretty easy I think.

 

I doubt WS are trying to suppress creative self expression!

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#46 of 58 Old 02-20-2011, 05:13 PM
 
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 Yes, this is your decision, not the teacher's.



Actually, I consider it my child decision since it's the child's hair.


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#47 of 58 Old 02-21-2011, 06:05 AM
 
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I doubt WS are trying to suppress creative self expression!



This particular 7th grader feels her creative self-expression is being suppressed by her teacher and her school.  I'm just the messenger :)

 

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#48 of 58 Old 02-21-2011, 12:04 PM
 
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A Waldorf school is not about individual expression of creativity.

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#49 of 58 Old 02-21-2011, 01:05 PM
 
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A Waldorf school is not about individual expression of creativity.



Um really?  This is not the impression I got.  From what I understand it's meant to encourage and foster creativity and imagination.

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#50 of 58 Old 02-21-2011, 01:17 PM
 
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Um really?  This is not the impression I got.  From what I understand it's meant to encourage and foster creativity and imagination.



Maybe just a certain kind of creativity and imagination, as defined by Steiner and the individual school's board and teaching staff. That kind of definition, plus "freedom from the distractions of the outside world", can end up being pretty stifling, imo. It really depends on the school and the skills and perspective of the teachers.

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#51 of 58 Old 02-22-2011, 04:56 PM
 
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This particular 7th grader feels her creative self-expression is being suppressed by her teacher and her school.  I'm just the messenger :)

 


I dont know this school in particular. I meant that the dress codes arent in place to stifle individual creativity. But they may include "strict"  guidelines. Clear as mud?

 

Basically, I think any school can foster individual creativity and still enforce a strict dress code.

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#52 of 58 Old 02-22-2011, 05:01 PM
 
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Just googled "WS dress code"

http://www.waldorfgarden.org/admissions/dresscode.aspx

 

https://www.portlandwaldorf.org/parents/dress-code.html

"Hair should be combed, clean, neat and out of the eyes, and non-distracting.  A teacher may request a child's bangs be cut or pulled back.  Bleached, dyed or otherwise colored hair is not permitted."

 

I think our school is casual compared to these! lol

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#53 of 58 Old 03-04-2011, 07:11 PM
 
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As someone who grew up in a strict atmosphere where authority was not to be questioned, I would have to politely but strongly disagree with this. Kids do know when an adult is being unreasonable, and to have a parent support that rather than acknowledging the reality of things doesn't help the kid out at all. It makes them question their perspective, not trust their own pesonal perspective on reality. It makes them not trust the parent. It can possibly lead to abuse of authority and can even, at the extreme end, open the door to physical/sexual abuse b/c kids become afraid to disagree/argue/question adults b/c they have been taught not to and taught that their parents won't support them.

 

I think the best thing a parent can do is demonstrate to a child that they are on their kids side when something is truly unreasonable, and then demonstrate how to peacably and respectfully resolve issues. Why pretend there is no issue when there really is? I didn't find it served me as a child to be given the false idea that adults were always correct/always knew best. Real life is that even the people we respect most, we will have reason for dissent with. Real life is that we need to resolve those issues with kindness and respect. Perhaps resolving it is acknowledging that though the teacher is unreasonable, you have chosen that school and will abide by those rules while there. But please don't give your kids the idea that any adult should be so highly respected that they can't ever be questioned.

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Another undercurrent here is the amount of respect and deference given to the teacher. I hope any dissent was done outside of the presence of the children. Even if you disagree with the teacher, there is a time and place for it. Undermining the teacher's authority for the sake of winning a petty argument/ power struggle  is damaging. 



 

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#54 of 58 Old 03-05-2011, 12:19 AM
 
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There is a vast difference between stepping up and advocating when something is truly unreasonable on one hand and questioning the teacher's authority in order to prove yourself right at all costs on the other. In this scenario there is a real question if the teacher is being unreasonable in the first place. It seems like the mom had the issue, not the child. The harder lesson is to differentiate between petty bickering and real turmoil. While one calls for advocating, the other necessitates an acknowledgment for the need for restraint.
Telling your child that their teacher is unreasonable when they are exercising the discretion you entrusted them with sends mixed messages. Bickering with the teacher in the presence of the child is also unproductive - the teacher is such an important part of the child's life.

I am fortunate that advocating and questioning is central to my family's identity, so I never thought that by supporting the teacher I was somehow giving the impression that authority is never to be questioned. I probably take this aspect of our life for granted. thank you for pointing this out redface.gif


The point is that the parent can have a constructive dialog with the teacher and not have the child feel conflicted between the two. It is the parents' role to give context and meaning to the rules we all have to live by - in this case, it seems there are weekend hairdos and school hairdos. The child is not being asked to cut her hair, just to keep it neat.

What I see as unproductive is to put the child in the middle. Mom disagrees, thinks hair is fine and talks to teacher - issue is resolved and child is told she can wear her hair "x" way is advocating. Telling child that teacher is unreasonable so we are gonna either keep doIng what we want to or grubmle about the unfairness of it is not healthy.

Of course, this is not just a Waldorf issue. Many schools ( and workplaces for that matter) have dress codes or expectations.
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#55 of 58 Old 03-05-2011, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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There is a vast difference between stepping up and advocating when something is truly unreasonable on one hand and questioning the teacher's authority in order to prove yourself right at all costs on the other. In this scenario there is a real question if the teacher is being unreasonable in the first place. It seems like the mom had the issue, not the child. The harder lesson is to differentiate between petty bickering and real turmoil. While one calls for advocating, the other necessitates an acknowledgment for the need for restraint.
Telling your child that their teacher is unreasonable when they are exercising the discretion you entrusted them with sends mixed messages. Bickering with the teacher in the presence of the child is also unproductive - the teacher is such an important part of the child's life.

I am fortunate that advocating and questioning is central to my family's identity, so I never thought that by supporting the teacher I was somehow giving the impression that authority is never to be questioned. I probably take this aspect of our life for granted. thank you for pointing this out redface.gif


The point is that the parent can have a constructive dialog with the teacher and not have the child feel conflicted between the two. It is the parents' role to give context and meaning to the rules we all have to live by - in this case, it seems there are weekend hairdos and school hairdos. The child is not being asked to cut her hair, just to keep it neat.

What I see as unproductive is to put the child in the middle. Mom disagrees, thinks hair is fine and talks to teacher - issue is resolved and child is told she can wear her hair "x" way is advocating. Telling child that teacher is unreasonable so we are gonna either keep doIng what we want to or grubmle about the unfairness of it is not healthy.

Of course, this is not just a Waldorf issue. Many schools ( and workplaces for that matter) have dress codes or expectations.



Ok I DID NOT bicker in front of the child to the teacher!

 

 

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#56 of 58 Old 03-07-2011, 10:08 AM
 
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I hate to say it but maybe your teacher is being passive-agressive - picking on your DD because she is unhappy with you..?

 

Maybe she has noticed the nail polish and hair lightening and such and is annoyed.

 

I am always surprised to find out what our teachers *do* know about students, families, home life, etc. Children talk...and teachers listen LOL

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#57 of 58 Old 10-15-2011, 02:42 PM
 
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Just trying to help - that hair style you speak of can be seen as gangster style hair. I'd wouldn't allow my child to wear it and I agree with the teacher 100%. The teacher's just against being overly done up as well, I'm sure. I'd thank her.

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#58 of 58 Old 10-16-2011, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Actually we ended up quiting that school.  It was ridiculous with no academics.  Now she goes to a different private school with a uniform and is allowed to wear the head scarf if she chooses, not that it is a big deal now anyway.

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