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#1 of 42 Old 08-19-2005, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Since we are all so close to having our babies, I wanted to talk about something that is very important to your new little boy: circumcision. I don't know if you have thought about it or not, but if you haven't, you need to. Circumcision is an unnecessary, harmful and painful cosmetic surgery that your little boy does not need. There is a great forum here on MDC (http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=44) where you can go to get more information.

I know when I was pregnant with my first child I assumed we would have him circumcised - I didn't even know there was any other option. Luckily I stumbled across some information on the internet and we did not circumcise him. Now that I know what circumcision really is, I am so glad we did not. There are plenty of people who have testified in the circumcision forum about how much they regret circumcising their sons. Please, if you have not already, check it out.

DS1 2004 ~ DS2 2005 ~ DD1 2008 ~ DS3 2010 ~ DD2 due Dec. 2014
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#2 of 42 Old 08-19-2005, 07:29 PM
 
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This is such an odd conversation to me because there was no question in my mind about circumcising DS1 or DS2 -- it just wasn't ever going to happen. (Fortunately, DH agreed with me, as he does on most of the important things.)

I don't know if the circ rate is lower in Canada but I do know that it's not a standard procedure here. They won't do it in the hospital unless you pay extra $$$ and often they make you bring in your own doctor to do it. And I don't think that the extra $$$ for the procedure is covered by medical insurance. (Might depend on the kind of extended coverage you have.)

So there are quite a few roadblocks here in this country, which means that the default seems to be not to get it done.
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#3 of 42 Old 08-19-2005, 07:33 PM
 
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I totally agree with you!! I'm glad I had three girls before my boy so I didn't make a mistake that I would regret for a very long time. I'm so happy I didn't do it, and I imagine my son will be very happy I didn't either.
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#4 of 42 Old 08-19-2005, 08:24 PM
 
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We're definately no-circers! DS1 is not circed, this one will not be either. (DH is...but we quickly shot down the "he won't look like his daddy" arguement).

~Brandon Michael (11/23/03), Jocelyn Lily Nữ (2/4/07, adopted 5/28/07 from Vietnam), Amelia Rylie (1/14/09), & Ryland Josef William (9/7/05-9/7/05 @ 41 wks). 
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#5 of 42 Old 08-19-2005, 08:38 PM
 
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No-circers here too. Just don't see any point in doing so! It took me a while to convince DH not to (he tried that whole "I want him to look like me" argument) but I showed him that Penn and Teller thing that was on Showtime a few months ago, and that sealed the deal with him. He had no clue how the procedure was actually done, and didn't want his little boy to go through that!

Lacie, mama to Ethan (5), Logan (2), and Dylan, born 5/12/11!
 
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#6 of 42 Old 08-19-2005, 08:50 PM
 
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Not even a thought in this household. DH is not circ'd, : , he is European and none of my brothers, dad or uncles are since I am Puerto Rican and that is not routinely done in PR either.

My 2 long term relationships (DH & 1 other) were both intact men, I don't think I could have married a circ'd man, that's just me.

Let the decision be theirs, save yourself the trouble of having to deal with a wound (that you may later regret) in a newborn.

Thanks for posting this Galatea!
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#7 of 42 Old 08-19-2005, 09:40 PM
 
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Neither of my boys are circ'd and this one won't be either. And we're Jewish. I don't think anyone should have the right to permanently alter someone's body without their consent. I mean, most people would agree that tatooing a baby is very wrong, but I think circumcision is worse because not only does it permanently alter what they look like, but it also affects the funtioning of what most men would consider their most important body part.
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#8 of 42 Old 08-19-2005, 09:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wenat
This is such an odd conversation to me because there was no question in my mind about circumcising DS1 or DS2 -- it just wasn't ever going to happen. (Fortunately, DH agreed with me, as he does on most of the important things.)

I don't know if the circ rate is lower in Canada but I do know that it's not a standard procedure here. They won't do it in the hospital unless you pay extra $$$ and often they make you bring in your own doctor to do it. And I don't think that the extra $$$ for the procedure is covered by medical insurance. (Might depend on the kind of extended coverage you have.)

So there are quite a few roadblocks here in this country, which means that the default seems to be not to get it done.
We are a little more backward about it here in the US. : I think we are the only country where it is routinely done for non-religious reasons. All my little nephews on my DP's side of the family are circumsized. And a coworker friend of mine said they were having it done to their son for "social reasons".

My DS was born in a hospital and several staff members very cavelierly said "okay, now you need to fill out the circ consent sheet," or "oh, you forgot to sign the circ consent sheet." They were fine with it when we declined, but a little surprised. When our midwife found out she said "Fortier (the OB she worked with) is going to love you--he hates doing that!" The fact that everyone at the hospital acted like circumsion was the norm made me so sad!!!!
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#9 of 42 Old 08-19-2005, 10:05 PM
 
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Yeah, I was asked 3 times in the 24 hours we (ds2) spent in the hospital and then his ped offered to do it for at least 4 mos every time we saw him. But at least he didn't mess with it.

But on a brighter note, the hospital I had ds1 in was great! I didn't want it done, but his dad (jerk!) kept asking about it. Finally the ped came in when he was there and told him that he'd never find a ped to do it, it was unnecessary cosmetic surgery, and most of the peds in that town refused to do them. That shut xp up finally! LOL! I sure miss that town!
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#10 of 42 Old 08-19-2005, 11:14 PM
 
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Thanks for bringing this up. Ds is intact and if this baby is a boy he will get to keep his whole penis too. Dh and I were clueless when we were expecting #1 and dh was all for circ. Once we did some research on circumcision we realized that it is nothing more than cosmetic surgery performed on a newborns genitals. How creepy! Not to mention the fact that it alters the way a healthy normal penis functions. So another family of intactivists was born.
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#11 of 42 Old 08-20-2005, 01:04 AM
 
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We came so close (the appointment day!!!). DH finally did the research I'd been begging him to do and he called to cancel. I was in tears. It freaks me out that we came so close, but he's 3 now and perfect.
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#12 of 42 Old 08-20-2005, 01:39 AM
 
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Probably not having a boy, but any boychildren in our future are going to be intact 'till they're old enough to decide to bodymod on their own.

My husband is uncirc'd, actually, and he's from this country. Of course, he was also a planned (though very illegal) midwife-attended homebirth. So he's totally supportive of all my plans for natural birth . Actually, he thinks it's a bit odd that we'll be birthing in a hospital; it's so much not the natural place for it to him.

Oh, also, for the record- he was never, ever, ever concerned about the fact that his penis looked different than his father's. He says, he only saw it when he was a little boy, and there were way more noticable differences than the foreskin thing.

Julia
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#13 of 42 Old 08-20-2005, 02:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kalirush
Oh, also, for the record- he was never, ever, ever concerned about the fact that his penis looked different than his father's.
My DH is also intact, and he's from the US. He said the same sort of thing about comparing himself. DH says there wasn't much opportunity to compare himself with his father, anyway, but it didn't occur to him. DH was a little uncomfortable around other boys in middle school (an awkward time anyway), but that was all over by the time he was in high school, and we're both grateful that he's intact.

Neither of us ever considered genital mutilation an option. If we have a son, he will definately be intact.

ATTENTION INTACTIVISTS:
I read some disturbing stories in the Case Against Circumcision forum about pediatricians forcing the foreskin back.... I had never heard of a doctor or nurse doing that. Intactivists, please arm yourself and protect your child with information from that forum!

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#14 of 42 Old 08-20-2005, 10:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kalirush
Probably not having a boy, but any boychildren in our future are going to be intact 'till they're old enough to decide to bodymod on their own.
We have had a few people ask us why we didn't have DS circumsized (e.g. relatives standing around when we were changing his diaper) and that is the approach we take when answering--that we decided if he wants it done he can get it done himself.
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#15 of 42 Old 08-20-2005, 12:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyPai
ATTENTION INTACTIVISTS:
I read some disturbing stories in the Case Against Circumcision forum about pediatricians forcing the foreskin back.... I had never heard of a doctor or nurse doing that. Intactivists, please arm yourself and protect your child with information from that forum!
Yes, this is very important! My first ds was forcibly retracted when me moved to another town when he was 13 mos old (first appt w/ new ped.) I had never heard of anyone doing this as our old peds were very informed and had even given us a sheet w/ proper care and that little blurb that no one should ever pull it back, with a little paragraph at the bottom on care of a circ'd penis that sounded awful--it was a sheet they handed out at the hospital--it mentioned bloody wounds and how to recognize infections caused by contact w/ feces--shudder. I didn't even know that circ was still the norm in other towns/parts of the country, so I had no idea a ped could be ignorant on the proper care. Anyway, she forcibly retracted it before I knew what she was doing and told me I needed to do this every day so "these adhesions don't reform." I was literally in tears, ds bled, and he cried for at least 3 hours AND refused to nurse, which told me this was the absolutel worst thing he'd ever been through b/c NOTHING was so bad he couldn't nurse, believe me!

ALWAYS make sure any doc who comes near your child knows not to pull it back. Luckily, that experience hasn't been repeated w/ either of my boys. The ped we have now is really great about it, even better than my first ped.
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#16 of 42 Old 08-20-2005, 01:02 PM
 
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I am all for keeping my baby boy intact!

I just want to scream when ppl "routinely" circ their sons.
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#17 of 42 Old 08-20-2005, 02:23 PM
 
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We aren't doing it. My husband still doesn't quite "get it" and still mildly fights me on it, but I'd rather fight with my husband about this issue for the rest of my life than have to deal with the guilt that I mutilated my son.
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#18 of 42 Old 08-20-2005, 06:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyPai

ATTENTION INTACTIVISTS:
I read some disturbing stories in the Case Against Circumcision forum about pediatricians forcing the foreskin back.... I had never heard of a doctor or nurse doing that. Intactivists, please arm yourself and protect your child with information from that forum!
My son was one...the doctor retracted him when he was about a year old. The poor thing wouldn't let anyone wipe him during a diaper change for several weeks (we had to use spray bottles and a lot of distraction), and he bled a lot from it. The doctor insisted he was right and I was wrong....until I brought him the AAP stance on care of the intact penis (he was a DO, not a ped, so he didn't have that info). He is now one less doctor who is uninformed...

~Brandon Michael (11/23/03), Jocelyn Lily Nữ (2/4/07, adopted 5/28/07 from Vietnam), Amelia Rylie (1/14/09), & Ryland Josef William (9/7/05-9/7/05 @ 41 wks). 
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#19 of 42 Old 08-20-2005, 07:46 PM
 
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Unfortunately my 2 boys are circed - I didn't know anything and unfortunately didnt do much research about it when pg with them and left the decision to dh, who just assumed he'd "be like him" and get circed - and I was sexually (and physically, mentally, emotionally) abused by an intact male and did not want to have that association with my baby boys. With my second ds it was a more difficult decision than with my first, because I was vaguely aware that it wasn't necessary, but was still so afraid of having that association and being repulsed by my son I've learned and grown a LOT since then and will NOT have Moonbaby circed if it's a boy.

Mama to A (12), Z (11), H (9), C (5), A (3) and 4 angels. 

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#20 of 42 Old 08-20-2005, 09:17 PM
 
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No plans to circ here. If anyone ask me why I will just tell them it's not medically necessary. End of discussion
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#21 of 42 Old 08-20-2005, 11:29 PM
 
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Intactivists here too. No way would we circ our babies! Thankfully, we have midwives who are intactivists as well, and a ped who supports our decision not to mutiliate and has respected DS1's penis. It's just nice to have that support from a professional perspective, b/c we are definitely the odd men out on this subject among our friends/family IRL.
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#22 of 42 Old 08-20-2005, 11:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mom2threenurslings
I was sexually (and physically, mentally, emotionally) abused
I am so sorry you had that experience. I hope you have gotten some good listening to help with this.
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#23 of 42 Old 08-21-2005, 12:31 AM
 
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I just don't get how anyone can actually think about it logicaly and decide that cutting off part of your baby is a good thing. I guess most people just do it because in the US it is the "norm" and most dads had it done and want their kids to "look like them". What they don't realize is that as children they are going to look nothing like their fathers anyway, there are lots of other differences like size & hair & such that will make them look different and by the time they are old enough to look similar they will probably not be looking at dads penis anyway. Anyway, we did not circ our son and will not with these boys either. Showing dh a video of what they do took care of any thought he ever had about doing it and he is now very thankful that we did not do it and could not imagine taking one of our brand new babies in to get part of their penis cut off. If there are any of you that need to convince daddy not to do it just show them a video of what is done and I can not imagine them wanting to still do it.
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#24 of 42 Old 08-21-2005, 11:50 AM
 
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The "aesthetic" reasons for circ'ing problably drive me up the wall the most. Our society can be pretty warped sometimes.
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#25 of 42 Old 08-21-2005, 11:37 PM
 
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If ours is a boy we will not circumcise. Dh is European and intact.
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#26 of 42 Old 08-22-2005, 06:12 AM
 
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Thanks for bringing this up Galatea.

My ds is intact (as is dh, luckily for both him and me! ), and if this new little one is a boy OR girl, both will (obviously) keep all of their body parts.

Mom2threenurslings - . My heart breaks when I read the stories in the Circumcision forum about moms who regret the decision to circumcise their sons. As Maya Angelo said, 'When you know better, you do better.'
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#27 of 42 Old 08-22-2005, 12:22 PM
 
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We don't plan on circ either. DH was circumcised at 12, and he said it was the most painful experience of his life. He said he was getting his tonsils out and they decided they might as well do it while he was under the knife!

Very strange.

So he has no problems with not circing. It's strange though I have 2 friends that circumcised because of pressure from their dhs, and they regretted it so much. My best friend told me she'd never heard screams like that coming from her son before, even though they waited till he was over a month old. Her dh and the doc were just chatting and laughing while the doc was slicing away. I can't imagine.

If people ask me, I'll simply say "no and I don't plan on chopping his fingers off, or cutting off his eyelids either".
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#28 of 42 Old 08-22-2005, 02:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Music-mommy
We don't plan on circ either. DH was circumcised at 12, and he said it was the most painful experience of his life.

If people ask me, I'll simply say "no and I don't plan on chopping his fingers off, or cutting off his eyelids either".
My dh was circed at the same age. At that age they actually have to use stitches. Can you imagine? Thats like getting an episiotomy! I can't fathom, poor kids.

I like your response...I think I will use that!

Michelle

Expecting #9.  Always busy hsing.
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#29 of 42 Old 08-22-2005, 02:56 PM
 
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At that age they actually have to use stitches
They had to use stiches on my ds, he was 8 months old when his was done. He had hypospadius, and it was repaird. I had consented to the circ if they were going to use the foreskin for the hypo. repair, but the doctor "couldn't find me" when he realized he didn't need anything skin to make the repair, and circ'd him anyway. Of course I did sign a consent form for a circ, I just wish it had been better understood that I would have prefered him come back out of the OR with his foreskin.

The recovery had to be awful for him, he finally peed about 6 hours after the procedure, when we were finally allowed to go home. Then he peed normally once we were at home, until he went to bed. He must have rolled over on his tummy, and it hurt so he wouldn't pee, but he didn't wake up. Finally at about 5 am, he woke up, we got him, and his diaper was dry, and the bandage was dry, and some blood had stuck to the diaper, so we had to use warm water to get the diaper off...then while I held him in a fresh diaper he felt relaxed enough to finally pee. After that we didn't have any problems thankfully. I'm still sad it was done.

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#30 of 42 Old 08-22-2005, 03:14 PM
 
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Unfortunately ds is circed, I just didn't do my research. This whole pregnancy I've told my dh that if this baby is a boy we are not going to circ him. Now, just last night (with my mom also present) he said that it will make us look like indecisive parents to have one circed and one not. Who cares. And then my mom butted in with the whole, "it's gross", "he'll get made fun of in gym class", you can't do that to him with a dad and brother that are circed, etc. I can't believe my dh is now on the fence about it. I know that the rate is 50% and most of my friend's sons are still in tact. Thanks for bringing up this issue. I'll have to find some hard evidence to show my ds so that he still isn't weary.
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