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#301 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by julielenore
I saw on the first show, that the children will never be allowed to be alone with their future husbands or wives until they are married, always in groups. How could you get to know a person like that?
And do you get to choose the person that you spend time with? They would meet so few people outside their families that their choices would be very limited in the matter.
This is how it will be for my children as well.

We set up gatherings. Fun stuff. Movies, hayrides, carnivals, apple orchards, paint ball, barbaques, picnics, game nights, sports events.....whatever All events are fully chaperoned. Teens can "hang out" but not alone.

Some with phone calls. An adult is in the room.

My brother is 18...that is why I am involved. There are always 4-18 teens/young adults plus adult family and friends. We all have a blast! We talk VERY open about sex and our morals. None of the teens/young adults are bothered so far by our expectations. We have explained our reasons and giving personal testimonies.

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#302 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by julielenore
I saw on the first show, that the children will never be allowed to be alone with their future husbands or wives until they are married, always in groups. How could you get to know a person like that?
And do you get to choose the person that you spend time with? They would meet so few people outside their families that their choices would be very limited in the matter.

Look into the history of courting and dating. At one time this style of "dating" was normal. It could prevent premarital sex but there always have been shot gun weddings, lol. http://www.thesite.org/sexandrelatio...oryofcourtship

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Courting
Back in the olden days it was different. A male suitor actually went a-wooing at the home of the woman he sought as his wife. He brought gifts, sat and listened to her play piano or sing, all under the watchful eye of other family members, usually her parents.



Women held the power over courtship. The mother would decide which men could call on her daughter, and later the daughter could invite men she had met at dinners and dances. After a time, the man would ask her father if he could marry her, and if agreed they would walk down the aisle together.
Also, even if they are in groups ussually they can walk away a little bit from them. Go to a park and walk around while parents are at picnic tables.
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#303 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by julielenore
I think that people are taking this thread seriously because those are REAL children with real thoughts, feelings and emotions, not made up characters in some drama.
Yes.

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#304 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TexasSuz
I don't think I have ever agreed with any one statement more than this! AngelBee, you and I think alike!
Thanks Suz

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#305 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kathryn
I never said it was. I have sex too, you know. However, I don't joke about it on TV because that's really tacky and rude to the family. That is revolting.
I still don't find joking about having marital relations revolting.

Sex is beautiful, not dirty. Teasing about concieving with the woman you love, I think it is cute!

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#306 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AngelBee
This is how it will be for my children as well.

We set up gatherings. Fun stuff. Movies, hayrides, carnivals, apple orchards, paint ball, barbaques, picnics, game nights, sports events.....whatever All events are fully chaperoned. Teens can "hang out" but not alone.

Some with phone calls. An adult is in the room.

My brother is 18...that is why I am involved. There are always 4-18 teens/young adults plus adult family and friends. We all have a blast! We talk VERY open about sex and our morals. None of the teens/young adults are bothered so far by our expectations. We have explained our reasons and giving personal testimonies.
While I totally respect your beliefs, if my family had have put those restrictions on me, I never would have met my dh, as he is not someone who they would have approved of, even though he is a good, hardworking, gentle and wonderful man.
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#307 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AngelBee
I still don't find joking about having marital relations revolting.

Sex is beautiful, not dirty. Teasing about concieving with the woman you love, I think it is cute!
Well, then we can agree to disagree because I find it disrespectful, rude, and gross. I don't think it's cute at all. I have a totally different marriage from you because my whole family is equal and my partner (or me for that matter) would never dream of teasing like that on TV or even in front of anyone. To joke about it between yourselves when you can laugh, giggle, and maybe grab a few... is all good and fun. Doing that on TV is disgusting and very disrespectful of the whole family.

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#308 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:42 PM
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Quote from AngelBee,

"I don't have dreams of any of my children going to college.

I do have dreams of them having a couple of very marketable trades and owning homes debt free by the time the move from our home.

I have no problem with educating yourself through college courses, but our family does not believe in the necessity of degrees."

I really think we're living in different worlds. I do expect my children, all eight of them to get their education. In this day and age, a college education is almost a necessity in a manner similar to a high school education back in the 1950's or 1960's.

I have high goals and high expectations for my children. In our time, school is work and my children work extremely hard to get a the good education they will need to be out in the professional world.

Going to college is far more than marketable skills as well, it's a time for growth and expansion. I want this for my children, and they have grown up with the expectation they will have a college education.

I don't think there's anything wrong with married couple's sex. I just think this particular couple is physically revolting and the thought of them copulating is not particularly edifying. I think their children are living with their parent's apparent rich sex life the primary focus of their media exposure is not what a normal teenager wants to hear on a daily basis.

Sorry for that last paragraph.

Angel, I really do think we're just not in the same place.

Debra Baker
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#309 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nntalamu
What about what your children want AB? What if they WANT to go to college and get a degree? Does that not matter to you? ...
If that is what they truly wanted, then I would fully support them. They are not being raised as some children though to think that college is the next step, required, or even necessary.
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Originally Posted by nntalamu
And what exactly is a "marketable trade?" ...
Construction, plumbing, sewing, instructing dance, painting.....real hands on skills.

I also have no problem with trainging schools where two years equal a job. I have a problem with the trend in society to get a degree for a few years and then not be able to get a job in that field anyway. Then working a low paying job until you figure out what you will go BACK to school for.
[QUOTE=nntalamu]And explain to me how exactly your children are going to own their own homes, debt free, by the time they leave your home?
I am working on figuring this out. There are a few programs about it. It is about living debt free and paying with cash only. Living within your means.
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Originally Posted by nntalamu
There is just no way I would ever limit my children or their dreams...
Nor would I.

They are just not being raised with the thought that college is a priority.

I NEVER said I would not support them going, it is just not a goal that I have for my children.

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#310 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kathryn
Well, then we can agree to disagree because I find it disrespectful, rude, and gross. I don't think it's cute at all. I have a totally different marriage from you because my whole family is equal and my partner (or me for that matter) would never dream of teasing like that on TV or even in front of anyone. To joke about it between yourselves when you can laugh, giggle, and maybe grab a few... is all good and fun. Doing that on TV is disgusting and very disrespectful of the whole family.
Yes, we will have to agree to disagree.

I see it totally different

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#311 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by julielenore
I think that people are taking this thread seriously because those are REAL children with real thoughts, feelings and emotions, not made up characters in some drama.
So are the people on Survivor, American Idol, Wife Swap, the Supernanny, etc. All real children with real thoughts, feelings, emotions. It's called reality tv, and it's not very real. The whole purpose of reality TV is to watch and say, "boy, am I glad that is not me humiliating myself."

It's just that most people with aforementioned real thoughts, feelings, and emotions don't feel like making a public spectacle of them on television without considering that yes, some people will be laughing at you or very, very concerned about the travesties you inflict upon others, i.e. the viewers.

I appreciate that some people feel the need to rush to their defense. But what of Richard from Survivor? Who will defend him? Well, apparently, a very well-paid lawyer.
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#312 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DebraBaker

Angel, I really do think we're just not in the same place.
No. we are not.

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#313 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:48 PM
 
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We also dont see the necessity of a college degree. If our dc want to go...then great...we will work that out, and stand behind them 200% .

But, my dh barely finished high school, and is now one of the top 50 worldwide in sales and managing for a Fortune 500 company. The President of this company is self educated as well, and has taken the company up about 20 levels since he took the position. So many people overlook sales as gainful employment. Dh is already teaching our dc sales skills, so they will have something to always fall back on. When my dh interviews people, there are so many he interviews that have Bachelors, Masters, and cant find employment. Dh even hired a lawyer, who is now making more money and has WAY more free time....he still does law on the side because he loves it.

Just another perspective on that.
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#314 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DebraBaker
Going to college is far more than marketable skills as well, it's a time for growth and expansion.
But Debra, how will this family's children ever go to college if they can't even leave their blanket? It's like they've already been trained to never take a risk.
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#315 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:49 PM
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Now, I'm quoting marsupialmom, "Oddly enough I think those kids were better perpared for life than I was. I had no clue on how to cook, clean well, maintain a house, nor finicial matters. I have no one to go back get help from if things break and I cannot fix it. If the girls cannot fix something they can call up their brothers for help."

Oh, boy, I don't think it's a mutually exclusive issue. I have helped my grown children with basics like cooking, cleaning, and budgeting.

Now, they've married nice men who don't want Suzie Homemaker and are willing to do half (or more) of the homework. Dd 2's dh cooks and cleans. She does the wash and studies, and does carpentry and tile-laying. Dh taught the girls to do basic house-building stuff like carpentry.

I really don't want my girls to be calling their brothers to do the "boy's work." and I certainly would blow a gasket if only the girls came in response to housework calls as happened in the Duggar video.

db
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#316 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Alana
We also dont see the necessity of a college degree. If our dc want to go...then great...we will work that out, and stand behind them 200% .

But, my dh barely finished high school, and is now one of the top 50 worldwide in sales and managing for a Fortune 500 company. The President of this company is self educated as well, and has taken the company up about 20 levels since he took the position. So many people overlook sales as gainful employment. Dh is already teaching our dc sales skills, so they will have something to always fall back on. When my dh interviews people, there are so many he interviews that have Bachelors, Masters, and cant find employment. Dh even hired a lawyer, who is now making more money and has WAY more free time....he still does law on the side because he loves it.

Just another perspective on that.
Thank you for sharing this.

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#317 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
But Debra, how will this family's children ever go to college if they can't even leave their blanket? It's like they've already been trained to never take a risk.
That is not even what the blanket is all about....

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#318 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
So are the people on Survivor, American Idol, Wife Swap, the Supernanny, etc. All real children with real thoughts, feelings, emotions. It's called reality tv, and it's not very real. The whole purpose of reality TV is to watch and say, "boy, am I glad that is not me humiliating myself."

It's just that most people with aforementioned real thoughts, feelings, and emotions don't feel like making a public spectacle of them on television without considering that yes, some people will be laughing at you or very, very concerned about the travesties you inflict upon others, i.e. the viewers.

I appreciate that some people feel the need to rush to their defense. But what of Richard from Survivor? Who will defend him? Well, apparently, a very well-paid lawyer.
Exactly...people criticize the teens on American Idol and practically the whole point of the audition shows is to mock people for making fools of themselves on TV--including contestants who are 16, 17, 18...

If you don't want to open yourself to judgment and criticism, then don't parade yourself and your family on "reality" TV.

In any event, Ma and Pa Duggar monitor and restrict their children's internet time, so I find it highly unlikely that any snarky comments about Mom's hair are making it into the home. And honestly, the joking that goes on at MDC is pretty good natured--go to the discussion of these shows on tvwithoutpity if you really want to see people "judging."
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#319 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:54 PM
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I'm still recovering from the notion that there are still parents, some represented here at MDC, who do not find their children's education to be a priority.

I'm astonished.

And, Angel, sewing, you mention sewing as a marketible skill?

Do you know how much people are paid to sew?

It's associated with sweatshop labor for a reason.

db
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#320 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DebraBaker
I'm still recovering from the notion that there are still parents, some represented here at MDC, who do not find their children's education to be a priority.


db
There's a lot of things I'm having to recover from after reading this thread.

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#321 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NYCVeg

If you don't want to open yourself to judgment and criticism, then don't parade yourself and your family on "reality" TV.
Or how about just quit judging and critisizing?

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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I have a brilliant idea.

I think some of us should pool our resources and create a Jinger college fund.

Jinger gets a scholarship if she majors or minors in Women's Studies.

db
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#323 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 12:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DebraBaker
I have a brilliant idea.

I think some of us should pool our resources and create a Jinger college fund.

Jinger gets a scholarship if she majors or minors in Women's Studies.

db
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#324 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 01:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DebraBaker
I'm still recovering from the notion that there are still parents, some represented here at MDC, who do not find their children's education to be a priority.

I'm astonished.

And, Angel, sewing, you mention sewing as a marketible skill?

Do you know how much people are paid to sew?

It's associated with sweatshop labor for a reason.

db
I know quite a few actually

Diaper WAHM's would be a start, quilt makers, wedding dress makers (recieving up to $3000-$4000 A DRESS), dance costume makers, tailors, Ice skating costume makers, pagent dress makers.....

That is off the top of my head.

Did I saw education was not important? NOPE.

I do not believe in an institution providing me a piece of paper stating that I am qualified.

I believe in self lead study and education.

Learning is lifelong. It does not end once you've earned a degree.

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#325 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by AngelBee
I don't have dreams of any of my children going to college.
Would you support your son becoming a priest, four years of college and four years of seminary for 8 years of schooling?
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#326 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 01:03 PM
 
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Would you support your son becoming a priest, four years of college and four years of seminary for 8 years of schooling?
Keep reading my posts.

I amswer this further down...

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#327 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 01:08 PM
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I'm thinking, with 16 kids, statistically, one or two of them is going to be Queer.

What happens of Jinger is a lesbian?

Does she still need to obey her father and go forth and marry and multiply?

db
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#328 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 01:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DebraBaker
I'm thinking, with 16 kids, statistically, one or two of them is going to be Queer.

What happens of Jinger is a lesbian?

Does she still need to obey her father and go forth and marry and multiply?

db
No, see, she's forced into marriage anyway and she has to put on a happy facade her entire life because she's serving God so it doesn't matter how she really feels. And then they'd just beat the gay out of the boys.

And, Angelbee, don't tell me this doesn't happen because I know more than one family that it's been done in.

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#329 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 01:11 PM
 
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I love your posts DB. Always right on.

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#330 of 1903 Old 03-14-2006, 01:12 PM
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Quote from Angelbee, "Diaper WAHM's would be a start, quilt makers, wedding dress makers (recieving up to $3000-$4000 A DRESS), dance costume makers, tailors, Ice skating costume makers, pagent dress makers....."

With all due respect, to the moms who make diapers at home, I don't dream of my daughters making diapers for slave wages. Those moms work darn hard and get little money for their efforts. When my children were in diapers, I felt bad I couldn't pay more for the diapers I was buying, but we were poor back then. This isn't what I dream for my daughters.

I would say for every Vira Wang who is getting $4K for a wedding dress, there are literally thousands of women (and it is almost exclusively women) who are sweatshop sewing. The odds are not in favor of one of our daughters being Vera Wang.

Pagents? You mention pagents? I wouldn't support that industry.

Debra Baker
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