"Permissive Parents: Curb Your Brats" CNN.com opinion piece - Mothering Forums

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Old 07-07-2011, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/05/granderson.bratty.kids/index.html

 

Anyone else seen this linked to on Facebook? Feels like another attack on GD to me. Your thoughts?


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Old 07-07-2011, 05:41 PM
 
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I think he's right. Just because we are "treating our kids gently" does not mean that they are entitled to make the lives of others miserable. Common sense and common courtesy should reign supreme.

More and more I see parents trying to be their kid's best friend. You shouldn't do that. Be your kid's parent. Be friendly, but they need a best friend more their own age.
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Old 07-07-2011, 06:07 PM
 
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I have to agree with philomom.  I think GD is totally diferrent then letting your child run absolutely wild at a community rec center, knocking down senior citizens.  I have seen it. 

Screaming at the top of their lungs because they are mad/sad/tired/it's Tuesday, etc is absolutely developmentally appropriate at some ages.  If a parent is talking to the child and it's not working please remove them from the situation if in a movie theater/nice restaurant/etc.  I don't get to go out often and would rather not hear it for 30+ minutes.  BTDT too.  I don't get to go out often with or without my kids and I would like to enjoy it.

I think 98% of parents who practice GD have great kids who know how to act in an array of differrent situations.  It can be that 2% of kids, any kids, whose parents don't bother to teach their kids how to behave in any situation that are the issue - I don't think the child is the problem.  But when do their rights usurp everyone elses's?

 

On the case mentioned in the article why should I miss my connecting plane because you won't (or "can't" ) make your child sit in the seat?

 

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Old 07-07-2011, 06:14 PM
 
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I am a GD parent and I have no problem with this article at all. Permissive parenting is not the same things as gentle discipline, and the author never mentions or implies anything about GD in this article.

My child has certainly thrown a tantrum in a restaurant. Who's hasn't? The result: she and I got up and went to the car and waited for the rest of the family to finish (and eventually went back inside after she calmed down). Leaving my screaming three year old in the restaurant for everyone else to deal with is not fair to the other guests. And yet I see it happen sometimes.

I remember once I went to a nice Thai restaurant with my then-four year old. We were having a very nice dinner together, and she was loving being a "big girl" and was enjoying the restaurant with beautiful behavior. At the next table was a mom and two kids. Those kids were maybe 5 and 7, and they were out of control. They ran around the restaurant, hollered, threw food, were rude to their mother and the server. The mom kept saying, "Stop that!" "Don't throw food t your brother." And "Sit down!" But she never actually did anything to stop her kid's behavior, and of course they kept right on doing it. They stayed for 45 minutes, yelling and flinging food and running around, completely ruining our nice meal out together. When they finally left there were piles of food on the table, garbage and tons of food all over the floor, smashed into the seats... it was ridiculous.

This woman did not practice gentle discipline. She did not seem to practice ANY kind of discipline. She was the permissive parenting poster mom, and I really think this article was written about people like her.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 34me View Post

I have to agree with philomom.  I think GD is totally diferrent then letting your child run absolutely wild at a community rec center, knocking down senior citizens.  I have seen it. 

Screaming at the top of their lungs because they are mad/sad/tired/it's Tuesday, etc is absolutely developmentally appropriate at some ages.  If a parent is talking to the child and it's not working please remove them from the situation if in a movie theater/nice restaurant/etc.  I don't get to go out often and would rather not hear it for 30+ minutes.  BTDT too.  I don't get to go out often with or without my kids and I would like to enjoy it.

I think 98% of parents who practice GD have great kids who know how to act in an array of differrent situations.  It can be that 2% of kids, any kids, whose parents don't bother to teach their kids how to behave in any situation that are the issue - I don't think the child is the problem.  But when do their rights usurp everyone elses's?

 

On the case mentioned in the article why should I miss my connecting plane because you won't (or "can't" ) make your child sit in the seat?

 

You know...you can't actually tell what's going on when a kid is raising hell in public. And, believe me - it's not always about "not bothering to teach" our kids how to behave. Nor is it always as straightforward as "remove them from the situation".

 

I'm not fond of permissive parenting, either. But, I've also been on the other side of this one too many times to feel comfortable with generalizations. And, I've put at least 10X the work (probably a lot more) into teaching ds2 how to behave than I put in with ds1 and dd1 combined. DS1 did great. DD1 has a few minor issues, but mostly also does great. I'm nervous every time I leave the house with ds2.
 

 


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Old 07-08-2011, 12:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post

I think he's right. Just because we are "treating our kids gently" does not mean that they are entitled to make the lives of others miserable. Common sense and common courtesy should reign supreme.

More and more I see parents trying to be their kid's best friend. You shouldn't do that. Be your kid's parent. Be friendly, but they need a best friend more their own age.

I agree with the first part. The second part, not so much. I don't think it is an either or situation. You can be your child`s parent and their friend, you just have to remember that sometimes being a parent is more important than being a friend.

 


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Old 07-08-2011, 06:33 AM
 
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My SIL is not a GD parent at all- she has locked my nephew in a strange dark room to get him to quiet down. Makes me shudder to think about it. And her kids could be the ones in the article. I don't think it was an attack on any type of discipline, just asking parents to discipline. I also recognized the parent who thinks everything her little angel does is adorable without realizing the effect it is having on others.

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Old 07-08-2011, 06:51 AM
 
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I am so not a permissive parenting fan, however my nephew is spanked regularly and I HATE that and he could totally be a kid in this article...but I think my SIL doesn't really discipline him and she just spanks him when she gets too mad to handle his "behavior" even though she never taught him anything IMO...


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Old 07-13-2011, 10:16 PM
 
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I just discovered the other day that my friend with 2 kids is a permissive parent in a very odd way that, personally, I could not endure but she seems to be okay... When I was picking up their dog to pet sit for the next week, their 3 year old was understandably upset. He yanked on the dog's harness (small dog, I was afraid he would hurt her!), beat his mom's hands and face and when she finally managed to separate the two and get the dog in the car, she held on to her son and he yanked- I mean YANKED as hard as he could- on her hair. It looked horribly painful! I was very surprised because she is very strict about other things like time outs, etc

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Old 07-13-2011, 11:16 PM
 
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Eh. Yes, some parents are permissive and don't discipline their kids. 

 

And sometimes there are rare circumstances outside the parent's control instead:

Deaths in the family, hospitalizations in the family, major catastrophe that has to be handled immediately and hence in public.

 

And sometimes it's actually the adults who are behaving inappropriately:

Man who was nasty and said I better keep my kid from "kicking his seat" on an airplane when she had put down her tray table, ONCE, GENTLY, and had not kicked it at all. We're not talking "Please don't let her kick my seat," we're talking temper tantrum from a fifty year old. Adult brats should realize that parents know full well how to deal with bratty behavior. 

 

I told him off and then told DD to let me put the tray down for her, because the rude man in front of her was too stupid to behave nicely to other people and we should feel sorry for him, being so unloveable. I also made sure he couldn't put his seat back back even the tiniest inch for the whole flight with a seat blocker and announced loudly every time I put the tray down "I am putting the tray down, not kicking you." Yes, including when he was sleeping, and I woke him to make sure he knew he wasn't being kicked. DD actually keeps littler kids from crying around her, sharing her favorite possessions with them. She did so on that flight, giving stickers and books to a toddler who was fussy across the aisle. She made his flight 10 times better via less crying toddler and he's an ass to her? Seriously? I am SO not going to tolerate the behavior from an adult spoiled brat any more than I do from child ones. 

 


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Old 07-14-2011, 08:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EviesMom View Post

And sometimes it's actually the adults who are behaving inappropriately:

Man who was nasty and said I better keep my kid from "kicking his seat" on an airplane when she had put down her tray table, ONCE, GENTLY, and had not kicked it at all. We're not talking "Please don't let her kick my seat," we're talking temper tantrum from a fifty year old. Adult brats should realize that parents know full well how to deal with bratty behavior. 

 

I told him off and then told DD to let me put the tray down for her, because the rude man in front of her was too stupid to behave nicely to other people and we should feel sorry for him, being so unloveable. I also made sure he couldn't put his seat back back even the tiniest inch for the whole flight with a seat blocker and announced loudly every time I put the tray down "I am putting the tray down, not kicking you." Yes, including when he was sleeping, and I woke him to make sure he knew he wasn't being kicked. DD actually keeps littler kids from crying around her, sharing her favorite possessions with them. She did so on that flight, giving stickers and books to a toddler who was fussy across the aisle. She made his flight 10 times better via less crying toddler and he's an ass to her? Seriously? I am SO not going to tolerate the behavior from an adult spoiled brat any more than I do from child ones. 

 


Aww, he's probably been traumatized by a long flight where a uncaring, overly permissive parent did let a child kick the seat back all the way from New York city to Orlando, Fla. This happened to my husband's aunt, she has a rant about it. And I have had to ask a parent to trade seats with their child because of the kicking. Kids just don't understand, those seats are not as dense as they look. ..... every little kick is felt. Kicking the seat behavior can really ruin a nice trip. So can can letting your four year old watch an Elmo movie with no headphones. (that happened to me)
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:47 AM
 
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Woah woah woah.  Hold up.  There's something called a seat blocker?  For real?  How do I get one of these???  I know the seats recline but IMO using the recline feature is just a big effe you to the person behind you.

 

Um...back to the topic at hand...

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Old 07-14-2011, 02:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by philomom View Post



Aww, he's probably been traumatized by a long flight where a uncaring, overly permissive parent did let a child kick the seat back all the way from New York city to Orlando, Fla. This happened to my husband's aunt, she has a rant about it. And I have had to ask a parent to trade seats with their child because of the kicking. Kids just don't understand, those seats are not as dense as they look. ..... every little kick is felt. Kicking the seat behavior can really ruin a nice trip. So can can letting your four year old watch an Elmo movie with no headphones. (that happened to me)

 

Yeah, and I was traveling from a sudden funeral with two small children in tow and no assistance because DH was needed to ferry a relative across the country by car. Literally the kids talked to their grandma the night before and 12 hours later she was dead. No one in our family had extra patience for stranger businessmen's temper tantrums. Nor do I think we should have. I've had kids kick my seat before, and I've even asked the kid "Hey, please be careful not to bump my seat, okay?" That's not the same thing as turning around and shouting at a child and parent how they better not kick your seat because you felt the tray table being lowered once. Sometimes the brats are the adults. 

 

Quote:
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Woah woah woah.  Hold up.  There's something called a seat blocker?  For real?  How do I get one of these???  I know the seats recline but IMO using the recline feature is just a big effe you to the person behind you.

 

Um...back to the topic at hand...


Yes, http://www.gadgetduck.com/goods/kneedefender.html but, you can also just do this: http://lifehacker.com/5147317/reclaim-your-airline-seat-space-with-a-water-bottle. Can't find what I have. Looks like a doorstopper. Got it from a retiring business traveler, but never really had to use it in years.


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Old 07-15-2011, 07:14 PM
 
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I am not a fan of permissive parenting, but I try to be understanding of different parenting styles and different personalities.  That said, planes are one of the worst places for kids to act out because you cannot leave and everyone has to deal with your uncontrollable child.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EviesMom View Post

...Yes, http://www.gadgetduck.com/goods/kneedefender.html but, you can also just do this: http://lifehacker.com/5147317/reclaim-your-airline-seat-space-with-a-water-bottle. Can't find what I have. Looks like a doorstopper. Got it from a retiring business traveler, but never really had to use it in years.


 

I didn't realize they still sold that item.

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