Three-year-olds to be taught about gay relationships - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 07:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Houdini
And for those who can't afford homeschooling?
Nothing. They'll have to put up with being taught tolerance.
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#62 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by treereach
There are also families that teach things like being black isn't 'correct' but we don't allow that in schools.
So this becomes a catalyst to bring the schools up to where society is.

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#63 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 07:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Houdini
So this becomes a catalyst to bring the schools up to where society is.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
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#64 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by cielle
Nothing. They'll have to put up with being taught tolerance.


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#65 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 07:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Houdini
No, I don't. I think there are some families that are raising their children in religious manners that go against the idea that GLBT is "correct."
There are also people who use religion to teach their kids that blacks and whites should not intermarry. They use pretty much the same arguments as the anti-gay people. Religion isn't an excuse for hate.
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#66 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by treereach
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Much the same as the schools had to address blacks being allowed in the school with whites.

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#67 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 07:45 PM
 
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Much the same as the schools had to address blacks being allowed in the school with whites.
Well, yeah. Good idea, right?
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#68 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 07:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
Hey, if you don't talk about it, it doesn't exist, right? Also, if you talk about Teh Gay, the kiddies might decide THEY want to marry their same-sex best friend, and get "converted" into the Queer Eye Brigade. We cannot have that. What will happen to redneck fashion sense? What will become of the mullet?

Oh the horror! Imagine a world without mullets?!! No, no you can't make me! No teaching of anything other than man+woman=love. Please, save the mullet!!!

Honestly, I think it would be fantastic to have this instituted here. I believe that what is learned in school sometimes has a far greater effect on the child than the what the parents teach them. I know this from personal experience and I am sure it depends on the child, of course.
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#69 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by treereach
Well, yeah. Good idea, right?


I never said I didn't think it was a good idea.

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#70 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 07:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pynki
Religion isn't getting a free pass for hatred or discrimination.
actually it has, for all of time.
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#71 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 07:55 PM
 
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By 5 years old kids are old enough to learn hate. Why not teach them acceptance?
Thats true, but disagreement or believing something is "wrong behavior" does not have to equal hate.
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#72 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 07:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Anuska
Thats true, but disagreement or believing something is "wrong behavior" does not have to equal hate.
It's a fine, fine line.
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#73 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 07:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
Hey, if you don't talk about it, it doesn't exist, right? Also, if you talk about Teh Gay, the kiddies might decide THEY want to marry their same-sex best friend, and get "converted" into the Queer Eye Brigade. We cannot have that. What will happen to redneck fashion sense? What will become of the mullet?


At least they will all be dressed well, right.

I tried to stay out of this one. : I would LOVE for them to show more acceptance in the schools towards peoples of varying nationalities, sexual preference, and religion. Even just a book thrown in that has a GLTB family in it once in awhile. Throw in a pagan, hindu, and muslim family, too while they're at it. I think a lot of parents would poop their parents when they find out, but at least the kids will be exposed and be able to make up their minds from two varying opinions by their role models.

And if the parents have a problem, that is just sad. IMHO. Acceptance and diversity should be taught, not homophobia and religious absolutism. Unless, of course, that is the private school/homeschool you want. :

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#74 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 08:14 PM
 
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I read the article and think it's a great idea that should be adopted here in the US. I think diversity is always a good thing even when I don't agree with the views of others (I most certainly support gay rights, but there are many say, religions that I don't support but I do support the rights of their believers).


I totally agree that it will be a beautiful day when "gay" is no longer a playground slur.
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#75 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 08:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Anuska
Thats true, but disagreement or believing something is "wrong behavior" does not have to equal hate.

and acceptance doesn't have to = follow the flow either.


Accepting something does not make you something. Just means you are ok with someone else being whoever they are or whatever they are and they are ok with you.

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#76 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 08:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kstsmith
I don't think young children need explanations of sexual relationships whether gay, hetero, or unwed. To do so makes the relationships stand out in some way and makes children think something is wrong with it because it was pointed out to them. To battle racism, bigotry and discrimination, you do so by teaching children to love one another, to have respect for others, to be kind, etc. Specifically teaching about an issue such as homosexuality only singles it out. Kids don't think something is wrong or hate unless taught by an adult. Three is way to young to have sexual conversations anyway.
you have a point.

however, i do think it's wonderful that they are teaching children that the 'normal family' is not neccessarily made up of one mum and one dad.
but the more i think about it, the more i wonder about how much effect it will actually have as it is only taught in school. i think it needs to be taught at home along with patience and respect for everyone no matter what thier family structure is. i think parents need to be educated alongside the kids, because ultimately the parents influence would be greater in the end.

i am intriguied by that book 'jake'. more info please? i would like to get it for my daughter.
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#77 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 08:32 PM
 
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This is the Daily Mail, which for those who don't know, is an extremely conservative rag - I would seriously hesitate to call it a newspaper. It spouts popular conservative 'common sense' and twists facts to make teachers (and the NUT) sound like 'Loony Lefties'. A very popular stance in middle class conservative circles. If the paper says it and implies it enough, it becomes true. Ironically, most of these teachers are actually conservative, so it's funny that rags like The Mail have made the public believe that they are lunatic socialists.

Anyway, if you read it carefully, it isnt saying anything about 'teaching about gay relationships.' It goes no further than what teachers in elementary and secondary schools have been encouraged to do for years - make children aware of diversity, and tackle prejudice of any kind when it occurs.

Now that the govt is more involved in preschool education and is rewriting the early years goals, the NUT sees an opportunity to extend the good practice in elementary schools down to early years practitioners. (In the past, many early years classes were entirely privately funded and so each did their own thing, with no cohesive 'curriculum' or policies or standards.)

I would think that what the NUT recommends is really not a big deal. But of course, a rag like the Mail is going to get hold of it and try to use it to further influence the public into believing the fantasy of the lunatic left wing teachers who are turning children gay, along with a million other ideas that they are brainwashing the youth of today with......

(And of course, if the govt listens to the NUT's recommendations, it will be used as further evidence of the lunacy of the Labour party and Tony Blair.)
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#78 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 08:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamamelia
you have a point.

however, i do think it's wonderful that they are teaching children that the 'normal family' is not neccessarily made up of one mum and one dad.
but the more i think about it, the more i wonder about how much effect it will actually have as it is only taught in school. i think it needs to be taught at home along with patience and respect for everyone no matter what thier family structure is. i think parents need to be educated alongside the kids, because ultimately the parents influence would be greater in the end.

i am intriguied by that book 'jake'. more info please? i would like to get it for my daughter.

Jake is my step sons name.

I can get the book name for you tonight when I look at it, I hear it more than I read it, he likes his mom to read that one and grabs the bereinstein bears for me :0)


its the Family Book or something like that. I'll get the real name and PM you

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#79 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 08:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PrettyBird
There are also people who use religion to teach their kids that blacks and whites should not intermarry. They use pretty much the same arguments as the anti-gay people. Religion isn't an excuse for hate.
Thank-you! I was going to say something like this as soon as I saw that "religious" argument. Religion has nothing to do with being gay. Being gay has nothing to do with religion. It's easy to contort words of the bible to support your own cause. Look it up. http://www.religioustolerance.org/

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#80 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 08:41 PM
 
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This runs dangerously close to crossing the boundary of parenting the child. What if the parents don't want their child included in the discussion? Is there an option to opt out (similar to sex ed stuff)?
Is there an opt out for all the racism, homophobia ect that the kid is learning on the playground, or from his peers and parents for that matter? no their isn't, other than homeschooling. So no their shouldn't be.
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#81 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 08:42 PM
 
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Yeah, what about the parents who want their kids to think gay people are bad??



:
exactly that is pretty much what is being implied here, OH NO someone might contradict my homophobia or racism:
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#82 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 09:08 PM
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Maybe there is a difference for my kids living in the city... and having a much older gay sister from dh's first batch. Dh and I treat the whole gay issue thing much the same way as we treat racial and gender issues. We recognize that in many ways people are the same. In other ways people are different. Seriously, I can not imagine a person choosing to be gay anymore than someone choosing to be straight. All that said, I wouldn't want my dc learning about gays at age three unless it wasme and they brought it up. Kids are very observement and open at that age. I'd much rather be the one guiding them...
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#83 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 09:19 PM
 
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wow, all these parents on this board who want to wait till their kid brings up same sex relationships, or wait till some arbitrary age before they are ready to learn about it? I don't get it, I honestly don't. Don't you see that by you deciding that they are not ready for it, you have already taught them something? What child would bring it up if its obvious its something their praents are uncomfortable with? That was the whole problem with sex education (and btw, teaching your kids about same sex relationships and families is NOT sex ed), wait till you think they are ready, and you have lost an opportunity, and many times you will have waited too long. Kids get that when you don't want to talk about something, its something bad. I anticipate stuff with my kid and don't wait for it to come up naturally. We have been telling him about all kinds of families since the day he was born, and over time he has started to see what we are teaching him.
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#84 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 09:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by iamthesmilingone
Maybe there is a difference for my kids living in the city... and having a much older gay sister from dh's first batch. Dh and I treat the whole gay issue thing much the same way as we treat racial and gender issues. We recognize that in many ways people are the same. In other ways people are different. Seriously, I can not imagine a person choosing to be gay anymore than someone choosing to be straight. All that said, I wouldn't want my dc learning about gays at age three unless it wasme and they brought it up. Kids are very observement and open at that age. I'd much rather be the one guiding them...
Which honestly why they should be taught about differant family structures at that age.

When my ds was in pre-school, he could tell the other kids "I don't have a dad." and they would accept it without a problem.

At age 5 and 6 kids will argue with him and tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about! These kids aren't arguing the biology of it either. I have several times stepped in to back ds up, usually kids will say something about my husband...then I have to explain "No I'm not married."
"but you have to be...your a mom?" Gee THAT'S fun thing to have to try to dance around... since I'm NOT going to go around explaining reproduction to random children.

If people don't teach their children about other family structures someone else will. It could be someone like me or my ds explaining it, or it could be the schools.

To be prefectly frank I'm sick to having to explain family structures to other peoples children.

There is a crack in everything...that's how the light gets in.
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#85 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 10:28 PM
 
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I don't understand this debate at all.

My kid is 2.5. Both of her parents are gay, as are the parents of most of her friends. She knows that some ppl have a mama and a dada, some have two mamas, some have two dads, some have one mom. Etcetera.

So far it hasn't messed her up too badly.

She did go thru a thing where she was wondering where her other mama is, does she have two mamas like her friends? When she plays with her baby dolls sometimes they have a mom and dad, sometimes two mamas.

It really is that basic at this age, people. My child, surrounded by queers, is learning nothing more about sex than your children are.

I really don't get where the controversy comes in.
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#86 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 10:51 PM
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I'm not sure how to respond. I go back and forth between the extreems of parents having total say in what their children are exposed to and letting society put their stamp on them.

Everyone has heard of the golden rule- "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

I don't believe in it. Sure it sounds good and all BUT I find it to take someone else's life journey in a direction they may not want to go. For examply: While I may want help figuring out how to knit a certain pattern- someone please tell me exactly how to do it!!! Another person may feel robbed of the joy of doing it their own way, regardless of how it was suppose to have been done. What I want is often very different than what someone else wants.

I much prefer to go by the silver rule, "Treat others in the way that they wish to be treated."

To tie this back in to the discussion, there is no handbook on how to be a good parent that is "the right one". There is no one right way to raise your dc. I need to respect their boundries as a parent. Obviously abuse not withstanding, that is what I think every parent wishes. So if some parent wishes to talk about different families when their kids are older or younger, fine. Even if they wish to teach hate of another person or goup, that too is protected within their four walls (not to say it is not a crime to physically harm another person). What are you going to do? Censor everything you (in general, not specific to any one person) find objectionable? It might come down to whether you believe in the overall goodness of people or that people deep down are evil. Me, I believe in the innate goodness of people and in the end rely on that to undo or overcome the evil that still exists.
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#87 of 91 Old 07-24-2006, 11:54 PM
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I didn't read all the replies and don't really feel like getting embroiled in this one... but can't resist sharing my opinion.

IMO... it is fantastic. If followed in its intent... which is only to educate the children that calling someone "gay" as an insult is dumb and pretty much the same thing as walking around calling someone "heterosexual", both are simply terms used to distinguish what type of life/soul/mate one has... then I am all for it.

I don't believe teaching children fair treatment and openmindedness is "brainwashing". If the parents want little bigots they have plenty of home time to teach that in.

If no discussion of homosexuality is "allowed" then neither should any of heterosexuality. Bias by exclusion is brainwashing too. Goes back to the King and King type thing. Both or none should be allowed.

That is My Opinion. You may go now. Go in peace and prosper.
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#88 of 91 Old 07-25-2006, 12:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by iamthesmilingone
I much prefer to go by the silver rule, "Treat others in the way that they wish to be treated."

To tie this back in to the discussion, there is no handbook on how to be a good parent that is "the right one". There is no one right way to raise your dc. I need to respect their boundries as a parent. Obviously abuse not withstanding, that is what I think every parent wishes. So if some parent wishes to talk about different families when their kids are older or younger, fine. Even if they wish to teach hate of another person or goup, that too is protected within their four walls (not to say it is not a crime to physically harm another person). What are you going to do? Censor everything you (in general, not specific to any one person) find objectionable? It might come down to whether you believe in the overall goodness of people or that people deep down are evil. Me, I believe in the innate goodness of people and in the end rely on that to undo or overcome the evil that still exists.
I hear what you are saying, but this isn't really about the parents and what they want. Noone is trying to censor parents here. This is about the public school system deciding that explaining diversity in family structures is a good thing.

Whatever parents want to tell their kids is still protected within their four walls

ETA: pumpkinsmama is right - if they aren't going to teach one they shouldn't teach the other. Get rid of all books using the nuclear family as a model.
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#89 of 91 Old 07-25-2006, 01:11 AM
 
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i want to prevent LGBT kids from being killed and committing suicide. does anyone have any better suggestions as to how we might begin to prevent this than by teaching kids exactly this sort of thing?

what if that LGBT kid who died was YOUR child? what if you didn't know that they were gay cuz they were afraid to tell you cuz they knew that you "disagreed" with it?
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#90 of 91 Old 07-25-2006, 06:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Deirdre
if they aren't going to teach one they shouldn't teach the other. Get rid of all books using the nuclear family as a model.
I like it.

I can never seem to understand how people fail to acknowlege the rampant portrayal of heterosexuality and the families that form around those het unions, yet absolutely cringe at the idea of their kid hearing, for five steenking minutes, about homosexual relationships and the families that form around those unions.
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