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#1 of 29 Old 05-20-2009, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Anyone who is pro CLW deal with dental issues? I know there is debate on breastmilk even causing dental issues, but we have a great ped dentist, who is in no way anti bfing. After following DS's teeth, tho, he thinks that he is one of the 10% of kids who just are born with bad bacteria in their mouths that when mixed with solid foods and breastmilk, causes cavities, which he now has.
Sigh. I was really into CLW, but now think there are some good arguments for night/nap weaning, since I can't brush/clean at night after he nurses to sleep or when he nurses at night.
Oh, he's almost 2 BTW. Still a little guy!

S, mama to boy M(6/07) and baby girl R(7/10). We do all the good natural family living stuff!
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#2 of 29 Old 05-20-2009, 06:49 PM
 
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Us, too. I didn't appreciate how bad my dd's teeth were until she was 3, though- I wish I had caught it sooner. She has pits in her two front top teeth and it's a constant battlefor me to keep the plaque cleaned off that top gumline. She was remarkably agreeable about not nursing after toothbrushing at night- but like I said, she was 3yo by that time, and so a bit more able to understand than a toddler might. I don't know what else to tell you-- it really stinks. I've been committed to clw, and I do think that this has maybe moved things along a little quicker in that department, just because she's so busy during the day that she often forgets about nursing until right before bed when she's already brushed her teeth (then she asks if she can have nummies when the sun comes up- which I always say is okay- and then she forgets in the morning, too)
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#3 of 29 Old 05-20-2009, 06:58 PM
 
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my understanding is that the latest research says if you brush all food bits out before naps and night time so there is only milk in the mouth that breast milk alone actually helps prevent and fight cavities.it is only a problem when mixed with food particles.

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#4 of 29 Old 05-20-2009, 07:52 PM
 
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my understanding is that the latest research says if you brush all food bits out before naps and night time so there is only milk in the mouth that breast milk alone actually helps prevent and fight cavities.it is only a problem when mixed with food particles.
agree. Our experience actually supported this. Ds had cavities on almost all his upper teeth and had to go under general anesthetic to have dental surgery at 18 months (thankfully it was possible to save all his teeth). Since then the only thing we changed was brushing his teeth very thoroughly just before going to bed. He continued to nurse to sleep and occasionally through the night for another two years or so. He weaned at 4. We go to dental check-ups twice a year, but he had no more problems ever since.

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#5 of 29 Old 05-21-2009, 12:20 AM
 
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We're going through the same thing. It's so disheartening! This is the 3rd child!! I had bad decay as a toddler, too. It sucks. My kids teeth just pit and the enamel is weak, we're told.

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#6 of 29 Old 05-21-2009, 12:27 AM
 
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nak

decay rel to genes

don't let milk pool

keep nursing until your child doesn't need it anymore

:-)
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#7 of 29 Old 05-21-2009, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the thoughts and encouragement, ladies. Yea, it is related to genes...my mom and DH both had AWFUL teeth early on. We eat a really health diet, limited sugars, but it doesn't matter.
Sigh. Looks like we are going to have to go the dental surgery route at this point. I'm trying to suggest to DS that we don't nurse unless we've brushed our teeth from a meal or snack and he's sometimes on board. Definitely do this before bed and in the morning. I just don't think I'm getting all the food out. He's not too into the brushing, thats for sure...

S, mama to boy M(6/07) and baby girl R(7/10). We do all the good natural family living stuff!
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#8 of 29 Old 05-21-2009, 11:38 AM
 
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Ds had cavities on almost all his upper teeth and had to go under general anesthetic to have dental surgery at 18 months (thankfully it was possible to save all his teeth). Since then the only thing we changed was brushing his teeth very thoroughly just before going to bed. He continued to nurse to sleep and occasionally through the night for another two years or so. He weaned at 4. We go to dental check-ups twice a year, but he had no more problems ever since.
I really hope this doesn't have to happen with my DS... His teeth don't have any cavities, but they are chipping. I took him to a ped. dentist the other day and she said that we should just keep an eye on it for now, if it gets worse, we may have to do the silver caps (which with my 19 month old LO, would require general anesthesia).

But in the meanwhile, she said to get some ACT Flouride Rinse for kids and, using a Q-tip, generously dab some on the affected areas after a thorough bedtime brushing- this may be a good idea for your LO too, OP.

Also, I have read that it's the combination of other foods with breastmilk that facilitates decay, so your idea of brushing before nursing sounds like a good one.
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#9 of 29 Old 05-24-2009, 04:30 PM
 
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My now 3.5 year old started having trouble with her teeth before a year old. Honestly her four top front teeth didn't look right when they came in.
At 2 we took her in and she ended up with caps on the front four top teeth, 2 root canals and I forget how many fillings in her molars. Her teeth have been fine since then. I never did night wean her during that time. She still falls asleep nursing 98% of the time at night. It was around her third birthday that she slowly started night weaning on her own (that is, she stopped nursing during the night but still initially fell asleep nursing)

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#10 of 29 Old 05-26-2009, 05:24 PM
 
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my 3.5 year old has poor teeth. dentist after dentist tried telling me it was because of extended breast feeding. I told them it was hogwash. I finally got told by our fam.practice MD that because of Zoe's psoriasis, her teeth got damaged. Do any of your children have skin issues like eczema or psoriasis? I have read that tooth damage in children is often linked to those skin ailments and our fam. MD confirmed this as did our pediatric dentist.

Zoe, this fall, had 4 teeth removed and three capped. we are a 2 time minimum brushing family, so there is this stigma attached that bugs me tremendously. I always feel like I have to go into long rants about skin issues and dental problems and their link.
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#11 of 29 Old 05-27-2009, 02:50 PM
 
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*raises hand*
DS (2 1/2) has some pretty severe decay on his two front teeth and some not so bad on the 2 on each side of those (so it's the four top front)
The PD dentist blamed it all on nursing. He said "that's why we like to see them stop by 1". He wanted to pull out the two front teeth but I'm not doing it.
We started using a restoring toothpaste and MI Paste and it hasn't gotten worse that I can tell. There has never been any pain, sensitivity or bleeding. If that happens, I might re-evaluate.

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#12 of 29 Old 05-31-2009, 11:56 PM
 
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We have a little deminerlization on ds front teeth. Staining is minimal but I can feel the change in enamel with my finger nail.

We brush and then nurse to sleep and nurse again at night.

My naturopath gave us 3 homeopathic remedies that help him absorb his minerals better to protect his teeth until he can brush properly when he is older. We also give him cod liver oil for vitamins. I don't use flouride on him or a toothpaste.

Are other's using something on their brush? I find a kids electric brush helps a little bit with motivating ds to brush as well as giving me more confidence that his teeth are getting more brushing.

My dh had really bad decay in his baby teeth even though his sister did not and they had the same diet and care so I believe there is a genetic link too.

We are going to the dentist soon and I am going to try and encourage them to polish and scale as much as ds will allow. I think he will let them if he sees them working on me first. We'll go every 3 months if he is good with it. I'm going to discourage any dental work as long as I can if possible.

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#13 of 29 Old 06-02-2009, 03:21 AM
 
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at 4.0 we don't have major issues with cavities although
the front knine teeth is turning orange??? on the outside we will need to check on this
immediately.
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#14 of 29 Old 06-02-2009, 08:31 AM
 
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to all you other mamas going through this!

My dd is 2.5 and is having dental surgery next week She has to have two root canals and a cap. We are still nursing plenty, including at night, but I refuse to believe that is what caused it. I had to have my two front baby teeth removed when I was five and had lots of cavities as a child, and I never had a drop of breastmilk- so to me it appears to be genetic combined with the fact that it's very difficult to thoroughly brush dd's teeth!!
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#15 of 29 Old 06-03-2009, 12:41 AM
 
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I don't have anything to add to the original question, but just wanted to point out some information on root canals. Please look up some information on root canals and cavitations, or root canals and focal infections, before deciding to do them. Dr. Weston Price did research on root canals that showed that root canals are never sterile and are sources for focal infection that leave the dead tooth and infect different organs of the body. His research was very compelling. Dr. Meinig, DDS has written a book about Price's work, called Root Canal Cover-Up. I think there are some more recent studies, but this is the information I'm familiar with. I don't know how or if this would be different in "baby teeth."
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#16 of 29 Old 06-03-2009, 10:28 AM
 
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I don't have anything to add to the original question, but just wanted to point out some information on root canals. Please look up some information on root canals and cavitations, or root canals and focal infections, before deciding to do them. Dr. Weston Price did research on root canals that showed that root canals are never sterile and are sources for focal infection that leave the dead tooth and infect different organs of the body. His research was very compelling. Dr. Meinig, DDS has written a book about Price's work, called Root Canal Cover-Up. I think there are some more recent studies, but this is the information I'm familiar with. I don't know how or if this would be different in "baby teeth."
I'm familiar with Dr. Weston Price, mostly through his work related to traditional diets but have never heard of the root canal theory. I do think that if we followed more traditional diets than our teeth wouldn't be so bad- it's mostly sugars, processed foods, and genetics- but honestly even if I had given dd 100% traditional food I'm pretty sure she'd still have dental problems. Dr. Price says that it would take several generations to have an affect, and I had major dental problems when I was young too.

I'm not 100% sold on Price though yet. And honestly I don't see another option for us- if I do nothing, DD's teeth will rot out of her head and the infection will spread to her permanent teeth. If I pull out the teeth, she will have major problems down the road not to mention be missing her two front teeth.
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#17 of 29 Old 06-06-2009, 06:51 PM
 
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my 3.5 year old has poor teeth. dentist after dentist tried telling me it was because of extended breast feeding. I told them it was hogwash. I finally got told by our fam.practice MD that because of Zoe's psoriasis, her teeth got damaged. Do any of your children have skin issues like eczema or psoriasis? I have read that tooth damage in children is often linked to those skin ailments and our fam. MD confirmed this as did our pediatric dentist.

Zoe, this fall, had 4 teeth removed and three capped. we are a 2 time minimum brushing family, so there is this stigma attached that bugs me tremendously. I always feel like I have to go into long rants about skin issues and dental problems and their link.
that's interesting...
my daughter had several cavities in her baby teeth that all seemed to appear rather suddenly about a year after she started eating wheat when her eczema was clearing at two years old. she saw this baby-whisperer of a dentist and they used laughing gas (yikes!) to get all her work done. we went gluten free when we first noticed the tooth decay (for other reasons as well - the eczema was back in force) and since she's been gluten free there has been no additional decay. she nursed to sleep until she was almost 4 and weaned at 5.5. i believe the tooth problems were a result of poor mineralization due to a leaky gut/celiac disease.
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#18 of 29 Old 06-06-2009, 09:53 PM
 
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This topic is on my mind today too. My problem is that DS (21 mos) is not a good sleeper. Some nights DH will take him for a few hours and tends to give him juice to drink. TERRIBLE. I have said before that he should only get water at night (other than nursing) but the reality is that nights with DS never seem to get consistently better. Perhaps it would be more healthy to try to nightwean him, though it has been my goal to clw. Sigh.
What age is common to take the LO to the dentist the 1st time? I asked at my (family dental) practice and they said 3. I feel pretty good about their opinion because I put a lot of effort into finding a pracitice with a lot of good referrals and a good vibe. How did people decide to go to a pediatric dentist earlier?

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#19 of 29 Old 06-06-2009, 11:20 PM
 
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My naturopath gave us 3 homeopathic remedies that help him absorb his minerals better to protect his teeth until he can brush properly when he is older. We also give him cod liver oil for vitamins. I don't use flouride on him or a toothpaste.
What were the remedies??
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#20 of 29 Old 06-07-2009, 02:15 AM
 
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i faced this with both of my kiddos.

i night-weaned ds at 18 months even though i didn't want to and we got his three cavities filled and he had no more problems with them. he now has several cavities in his molars but that i feel is due to the fact that i had m/s so horribly when i was pregnant with dd that i was unable to keep up on brushing his teeth so he'd often go for a week or more without brushing.

dd now has pre-caries on three of her front teeth and actually, two of her teeth came IN with enamel defects. i'm considering night-weaning because i feel like it worked with ds.

we also do raw milk and cheese (tons of cheese- the alkalinity is supposed to be good for teeth), mi paste, xylitol mints and gum and gel, clo and butter oil, i brush all the time and we do bone broths about twice a week. i also use a fluoride toothpaste (i feel fine about topical versus ingested) with xylitol.

so far, her's are holding steady and not getting any bigger but it's a LOT of work and i honestly feel like night-weaning will help

our dentist was awesome too! he was like, ideally, from a dental perspective you would wean, i understand that's not always possible or desired so just make sure to keep them as clean as possible.

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#21 of 29 Old 06-07-2009, 02:48 AM
 
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We have also had problems with this. My Ped dentist asked if I was sick during my first trimester, since that is when the teeth form, apparently my ds has very weak enamel. For awhile we were doing an electric toothbrush (cleaned very well), flossing religiously, re-mineralizing paste, oxygenated olive oil, and fish oil. We were trying to avoid fillings but in the end had to get some. I love our dentist though, filled all the teeth without even using any numby. A prior dentist wanted to give anesthia and 5 caps, so look around as opinions seem to vary greatly. Weaning at night was never really an option for us, my ds was (is) so very attached to his milky.

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#22 of 29 Old 06-07-2009, 03:24 AM
 
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i've heard that about m/s too.

i was so much worse with dd, i lost at least 15 pounds during the first four months, and i totally feel like that is part of the problem.

plus, her teeth are worse than my ds.

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#23 of 29 Old 06-07-2009, 09:46 AM
 
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I'm another one that doesn't believe that night nursing causes cavities, but it is the ONLY culprit I can think of at the moment.

DD nursed LITERALLY from 11p-7a non stop for about 7 months. Her front 4 teeth started to show decay around that time. I night weaned her at the time (not for dental reasons).

She now needs crowns on the front 4 teeth. It's either get the crowns or risk her losing her front 4 teeth, which I am so not ok with. The dentist suggests waiting until closer to her 3rd birthday, so I think we're doing them in November (she will be 3 in Feb). We're doing composite crowns in the office, I refuse to put her under GA.

At the moment, we're brushing twice daily, I am painting those 4 teeth with flouride rinse and she gets xylitol spray and candies. FTR, all the rest of her teeth are strong and healthy.
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#24 of 29 Old 06-10-2009, 09:27 AM
 
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DD just had her dental work done yesterday and while I'm SO relieved this is taken care of, I'm really nervous that it will happen again! Not only for my DD's sake, but because her work yesterday cost 3.5 grand!
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#25 of 29 Old 06-20-2009, 10:45 AM
 
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What MI paste do you use and where do you get it????????

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#26 of 29 Old 06-21-2009, 01:23 PM
 
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i bought my MI paste from ebay, they had the cheapest prices i could find. i bought the original because it didn't have any fluoride but my dentist said the amount is really small in the "plus" formula and that it would be fine for her teeth.

i'll buy the plus formula next time.

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#27 of 29 Old 06-21-2009, 03:58 PM
 
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We were going to have DS's teeth capped at 2y.o. thinking it was in his best interest, and decided not to- I'm glad we didn't. His two teeth (either side of his front 2...the ones before the canines) have decayed and are about half gone at this point....the rest of his teeth are in fine shape (aside from a brown line across his front two teeth too...the first 4 came in like that- streaked with a brown horizontal line across of them).

DS is now 3.5 and the decay has slowed down considerably, and knowing he made it this far, I'm hoping we can make it another couple of years until the teeth fall out naturally. The dentist was surprised with how little they've decayed in the last year and glad we didn't do the procedure. We do xylitol when we think of it, night nurse (though do our best to brush regularly before bed), and I do what I can with diet and making sure to put something like cheese or xylitol in the mouth after a sugary treat if he has one.

Anywhoo....decay doesn't have to be the end and necessarily mean surgery. The dentist when we first met gave us a rx for antibiotics but was otherwise comfortable waiting given that they only time it becomes an issue is if the teeth decay so much and become infected. We've never had to fill that rx because though decayed, they've NEVER hurt DS or caused infection. He does icecream and cold stuff and brushes them without a complaint EVER it's quite amazing actually.

So, if you feel you can wait, perhaps waiting out the storm is a reasonable sol'n and only acting if you really need to?

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#28 of 29 Old 06-21-2009, 04:03 PM
 
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Oh, and as for the real purpose of this thread, I don't think it's the night nursing that's to blame. My dentist said that bottles are the only issue because of the pooling, and given my history I really do think it's genetics and nutritional.

I was a vegetarian for 12 years before I got pregnant and throughout my pregnancy, I was horribly sick throughout pregnancy (for 8mos), had bad teeth as a kid (though my adult ones are fine) as did DH. I really don't blame night nursing at all, and even if it was the culprit it's too darn right for the both of us to give up.

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#29 of 29 Old 06-22-2009, 11:32 AM
 
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we also do raw milk and cheese (tons of cheese- the alkalinity is supposed to be good for teeth), mi paste, xylitol mints and gum and gel, clo and butter oil, i brush all the time and we do bone broths about twice a week. i also use a fluoride toothpaste (i feel fine about topical versus ingested) with xylitol.
Okay so what is MI paste?
I did not know that about cheese! That's really cool, especially since DS ( DH and I too) is a cheese-aholic.

I'm taking DS to a second pediatric dentist appointment, because at his last one, she told me to come back if they chip any more, and one of his front teeth is noticeably smaller, i.e. has chipped more.
I want to avoid dental surgery or procedures on my LO (20 months old), but then again, I don't want his little teeth to chip to the nerve either! Poor little guy got his daddy's bad teeth genes.
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