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#1 of 37 Old 01-02-2005, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i googled child led weaning and found this article. you should check it out.

http://www.lalecheleague.org/llleade...rApr87p23.html

sometimes i'm not sure if i'm doing clw or not. i want ds to wean himself but i do let him have water constantly throughout the day, offer him lots of solids, don't offer/don't refuse, etc. sometimes i hear ppl say their baby weaned himself at 6 months and i have to wonder if it wasn't just a preference to a faster flow or a nursing strike or something. i just ordered how weaning happens and mothering your nursing toddler. what do you guys think of the article? what do you think clw means and who can post here?

thanks!
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#2 of 37 Old 01-02-2005, 11:43 PM
 
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The most important aspect of child led weaning is that the final weaning is up to the child. Other than that there is a lot of grey area. Of course giving the child food and water (unless it's a young baby) is CLW. After a year or so they *need* food and water as well as the breastmilk. If you are committed to bfing as long as your child needs in, no matter what age that may be, then you are doing CLW. HTH
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#3 of 37 Old 01-03-2005, 09:47 AM
 
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Was this a child-led weaning?

My 2nd dd was a very very spirited, kind of bullheaded 3 1/2 yo. OK, very bull headed. I was 7-8 mos pg. I had had extremely sore nipples all throughout pregnancy.

At this point in my preganancy, my breasts were pretty much dry. I was fine to let my dd bf 2x/day.

But the problem was, she insisted (as only a spirited child can do) to bf 3 or more times a day. And esp at night. She had no concept of "chis chis are sleeping, wait til the sun comes up." This did not fly--at all. More frequent nursing would cause me agony. I would say it made my nipples feel like hamburger.

So, b/c I just couldn't take it anymore, and she was unable to understand limits, I told her we would have to quit. We discussed to for a week. She seemed OK with it.

The first night she cried for 2 minutes.

The next night she whimpered for 15 seconds.

The next night and forever after that, she had no issues and started sleeping through the night for the first time since she was 8 mos old.

She was much much happpier to go cold turkey, making me know this was the best decision. As a spirited child, she could not go with the grey area of me setting limits. She was better off psychologically without any bfing and just switching to cuddling.

I was willing to let her tandem when ds was born but she never asked.

How does the CLW crowd handle pregnancy weaning when mom is in extreme pain (and the child is spirited)?
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#4 of 37 Old 01-03-2005, 10:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
How does the CLW crowd handle pregnancy weaning when mom is in extreme pain (and the child is spirited)?
In my opinion, it was mother-led weaning because your child still had the desire to nurse and you chose to wean. I'm not saying that it was wrong for you to wean in that circumstance, just that it wasn't CLW.

I can only answer for myself, so here goes...
If I was in extreme pain while nursing through pregnancy, I would first do everything I could to lessen the pain and continue nursing. If I exhausted every possibility and couldn't handle the pain ... and I decided that there was no other way than to wean, I would, in that situation, have to abandon CLW and wean the child. It would break my heart, but if it would be a choice between a loving nurturing relationship with my child without nursing and a negative, horrible nursing relationship with my child, I'd have to choose to wean.

Mama to A (12), Z (11), H (9), C (5), A (3) and 4 angels. 

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#5 of 37 Old 01-03-2005, 12:10 PM
 
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DaryLLL, I have one child so I've never been through what you just described. I'm pretty sure its much easier to CLW with one! In any case, it sounds like you did what worked best for your sanity and your relationship with your daughter - does it really matter how anyone else "defines" it?
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#6 of 37 Old 01-03-2005, 12:17 PM
 
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Nichole, I've heard people say (not in so many words) that they use nursing as a last resort. They'll offer solid food, water, toy, anything and everything before they'll nurse. Then they say baby self-weaned at 13 months (or whenever). That imo, is not CLW. But like the pp said, you do need to offer water and solids eventually! The don't offer/don't refuse was never an issue here, because ds was always asking! :LOL
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#7 of 37 Old 01-03-2005, 03:50 PM
 
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DaryLLL, it sounds to me like you encouraged night weaning, but not day weaning. It also sounds like your dd was ready and maybe needed a little push. Since she only fussed once or twice very briefly, maybe she was ready to nightwean. I really wouldn't worry about it, if I were you, bc it sounds like it all worked out fine for both of you.
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#8 of 37 Old 01-03-2005, 03:56 PM
 
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I'm not worried. LOL. It was 13 yrs ago. I figure, it was a natural weaning, b/c I was naturally pg and kids are meant to have siblings. While missing the milk was not ideal for her nutritionally and immunologically, psychologically she was much much better off and plus we all got (one month of) better sleep.

Then her brother was born and I didn't sleep for 3 mos. I was glad she was able to sleep all night with her dad and siser at that point b/c I was up and down all night. Ds wouldn't even sleep lying down in the fam bed. I had to camp out in the lv rm with him and spend half the night in the rocking chair or walking, the other half on the couch.
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#9 of 37 Old 01-03-2005, 06:30 PM
 
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DaryLLL, I think what you did was natural weaning. I don't think things like this are a problem.

I have seen mother cats on the farm swipe at their babies when they tried to nurse and the mama cat was pregnant (OK-my parents did not spay or neuter but that was then). I think nature has an intelligence to it. I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone. I just think there is a gray area and this makes me think a few people might be excluded here.

I cut down on nursings during my pregnancy with my first child, and she did wean on her own but I definitely put her off sometimes when she asked to nurse and it was painful. I'm sure without the pregnancy she would have nursed longer.

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#10 of 37 Old 01-04-2005, 12:08 AM
 
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monnie I totally agree with your post
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#11 of 37 Old 01-04-2005, 01:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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the responses have been interesting. i guess i am not sure if i will do clw or not and am still a little confused about the term. not that it matters b/c i know i will do what it is best for my son. i think i am torn about using nursing "as a last resort" as someone mentioned. i never would have done that when ds was younger, but lately i find myself replacing nursing very very very gradually w/ food, books, water, etc. i think that is normal though, isn't it? i think i *could* nurse for thirst by encouraging him to take little sips or nurse for every boo boo, but i don't really see the need to do that anymore (not that i would ever refuse but he just doesn't seem to need it anymore). am i clear as mud? :LOL
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#12 of 37 Old 01-04-2005, 02:34 AM
 
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I get what you are saying Nicole. I think to a certain extent most of us do that as our nursling gets older. For example "yes, you can nurse but I need to ____ first" or "you just nursed, are you hungry? want a slice of cheese?" that sort of thing. I don't think that it disqualifies as CLWer () I think that it is a natural progression to the baby growing older. I know for one if I didn't do these things, my son would be permanently attached. To me CLW is just like every thing else in AP - it is about responding to your child and acknowleding that he/she is a person with needs and wants and desires that need to be acknowledged and respected.

V.
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#13 of 37 Old 01-04-2005, 05:06 AM
 
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I had a hard time taking the article totally seriously because of it's title. Baby-led weaning??? That in itself made me see that this is purely just one mother's opinion, not to be taken as a definitive definition (though I would probably scoff at anyone's definitive set-in-stone definition of CLW). I skimmed through the article and there were things I agreed and disagreed with. I think that is basically how CLW is. We are all diverse in our experiences and opinions, whether it be ideals on limit-setting or when to start solids, etc., but I think we all are in agreement that CLW entails the child ultimately deciding when to completely stop nursing. And it involves a huge amount of trust in the child and her/his needs.
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#14 of 37 Old 01-04-2005, 10:21 AM
 
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mother sunshine, I want to ask you a question. Do you think child led weaning is always the best for every child? I see you only have one child. This might be a ridiculous question but, did you not get pg again just so she could completely lead the way in weaning?

It seems to me pregnancy foils many women's attempts to do CLW.

If a child weans herself while mom is pg b/c of lowered supply or funny taste, or b/c mom has shortened and limited feeds to the point where it is just not very attractive, does this count as a true child led weaning? The child might only be say, 18 mos. She may not be truly ready to wean and of course, an 18 mo would benefit hugely from more breastmilk.
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#15 of 37 Old 01-04-2005, 11:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
I'm not worried. LOL. It was 13 yrs ago. I figure, it was a natural weaning, b/c I was naturally pg and kids are meant to have siblings.
DaryLLL, I'm not sure why you even asked our opinion if you're not worried. CLW is not for everyone. As for this comment about "kids are meant to have siblings" and asking other posters if they didn't get pregnant just so they could CLW - well, I find that to be a bit rude. Some of us have only one child (some by choice; some not), and some of us have multiple children. At least one of our CLW'ers tandem nursed through pregnancy. So I'm just not sure what your point is...
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#16 of 37 Old 01-04-2005, 12:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by callmemama
DaryLLL, I'm not sure why you even asked our opinion if you're not worried.
I am asking out of honest curiosity. Just wondering what the parameters and perceived benefits are.

Quote:
CLW is not for everyone.
When you say that, do you mean CLW is not right for every mother, but is right for every child?

Quote:
As for this comment about "kids are meant to have siblings" and asking other posters if they didn't get pregnant just so they could CLW - well, I find that to be a bit rude.
it was an honest question I had for mother_s. I prefaced it with the adjective: "perhaps ridiculous."

It is natural for kids to have siblings. Most kids do. (I am certainly not saying it is wrong to have only one child!)

It is much easier to do CLW or at least nurse much longer, while not pg than while pg, esp if you have extremely sore nipples the whole pregnancy, as I did.

It was beneficial for my child to wean when I was pg, givne the circumstances. She was happier and calmer when I requested her to wean than she was when I was forced to set what were to her arbitrary limits.

I also differentiate between habit and need. My final child was nursing for 2 mins at bedtime when he was 4 1/2. Sometimes he would go to bed without nursing. When I suggested he might want to give up that feed, he agreed willingly. But it was my idea. I introduced him to the concept. So this was not child-led but respectful. Yet, as he agreed and was not traumatized, I did not see any harm arose from it. I truly believe if a child has a need, he will object strongly to having it not met. If he has a habit, he will give it up easily.

I think it just didn't occur to him to not nurse until I suggested it.

Just like some kids might not think to poop in the potty unless mom suggested it. It is not that they "need" to poop in the diaper, but that they aren't aware of other options.

I hope that was clearer.
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#17 of 37 Old 01-04-2005, 12:56 PM
 
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I will try to answer from my experience with having one child for almost 5 years before having my son.

We tried to get pregnant for awhile before I actually did. Ellie was around 3 3/4 when I concieved and had an ectopic pregnancy. It was devastating, but I didn't blame nursing even though I was worried about what to do. As I have said so many times before, Ellie was an avid nurser, very attached and close. It didn't occur to me to wean her, but set a limit at that time. She was sleeping all night, and had been for a long time..but would wake around 5:30 or 6...and wake me to nurse. I began to ask her if she could either try to rest awhile longer or get up and play for a bit before waking me. I noticed a big difference in my attitude when I slept until 6:30, 7 instead of 5:30...btw, she nursed for a long time in the morning, it wasn't really an option to nurse for a few minutes and go back to sleep.

When I conceived again, I was sore and tired. I read a lot of stuff about nursing and miscarriages, etc. I really knew that we could do this, and I had to follow my heart and not the doctors advice to wean right away.

Ellie began nursing for a few minutes periodically through the day, at night she nursed, came off and went to sleep in my arms. She nursed to sleep the night Ben was born (my water broke). If she had been less interested in nursing, she may have weaned herself...but I have heard of many children weaning during pregnancy only to resume nursing, if allowed, once the baby is born. That can be a great time because siblings bond over nursing.

I have a close friend who was nursing her dd (6 mos younger than mine) when our girls were 18 months old...babies. We all went camping together for 5 days. I layed down with dd to nurse to sleep. Often dd couldn't sleep because the other adults were talking or playing games close by in the cabin. My friend nursed her dd for a minute (literally) and put her in the pack and play to sleep. Sometimes she cried for a minute, sometimes not. During the day, Ellie nursed a few times, for up to 20 to 30 minutes...didn't seem like a lot because we were hiking and swimming, nursing was always our way to reconnect and relax. My friends dd would nurse for a minute and friend would get impatient...and start adjusting her bra and say, "Ok, that's enough! Let's do something else."

Friends dd "weaned herself" a few month later. My dd was still nursing, same as always. Was friends dd's weaning child led or mother led?

I use this as an illustration of all the subtle and not so subtle actions and reactions that occur between mother and child. Each relationship is dynnamic and each child is different.

~Joan, Happy mom to 2 beautiful kiddos, one new puppy and 2 lovely felines
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#18 of 37 Old 01-04-2005, 03:11 PM
 
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DaryLLL, I see where you're coming from and I think you're being misread as offensive. Trust me gals, if she's trying to offensive, you'll know! : Sorry, couldn't resist. :

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
If a child weans herself while mom is pg b/c of lowered supply or funny taste, or b/c mom has shortened and limited feeds to the point where it is just not very attractive, does this count as a true child led weaning?
Unless the child had a bottle or pacifier that she switched to for suckling comfort instead then I would say yes. As so many tandem nursing mamas can attest to, if the child isn't ready to wean they won't care that there's no milk or that it tastes funny now. DD didn't even slow down at all. The closeness and the suckling was very important to her, though she was a bit dissapointed at there being no milk left (and ecstatic when it all came in after I had the baby! :LOL).

I absolutely do think it's harder to nurse through a pregnancy than not. I think a lot of mothers who lose their milk in pregnancy limit nursings or shorten the lenth of the nursing to make it more comfortable for them. I can also see how sometimes mother led weaning can be natural and honestly, I'm always just happy beyond belief when any woman nurses for at least two years.

Oh, and ITA Joan that the situation you described above was not natural weaning. The mother had a lot to do with it. I think DaryLLL has posted some awesome articles on that very topic and I am happy every time because I worry that some mothers here might be unknowingly doing this with their relatively young babies. It's probably personal for me though since my first self weaned at only 12 months. I think part of it is that I fed him so damn much food at such a young age. He had a nursing strike that lasted so long he forgot how to nurse. He never had a need to suckle anything again (I never gave him a bottle or pacifier and he never sucked his thumb), and I have no doubt he would've been on the early end of the CLW spectrum but I think if he hadn't had so much food before being a year old, he may have nursed a little longer.
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#19 of 37 Old 01-04-2005, 03:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victorian
I know for one if I didn't do these things, my son would be permanently attached. To me CLW is just like every thing else in AP - it is about responding to your child and acknowleding that he/she is a person with needs and wants and desires that need to be acknowledged and respected.

V.
I agree. My kids would also be permanently attached without me offering them some food. Neither of mine liked solid food and are/were marathon nursers. I saw friends children nurse 5 minutes at a time and be done. My ds almost three still needs 20 minutes to an hour of nursing at a pop and will scream if he gets less. He nurses every hour. I get an hour on, and hour off-this all night as well.

This is with limits. Without them... just put me in an assylum. Nursing has been a hard road for me, and I am pro-nursing but can't glorify it. I accept that some mothers will set limits and this will maybe result in the child weaning sooner than if she would have had unlimited nursing.

I can only honor part of my child's needs to nurse.

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#20 of 37 Old 01-04-2005, 06:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
mother sunshine, I want to ask you a question. Do you think child led weaning is always the best for every child? I see you only have one child. This might be a ridiculous question but, did you not get pg again just so she could completely lead the way in weaning?

It seems to me pregnancy foils many women's attempts to do CLW.

If a child weans herself while mom is pg b/c of lowered supply or funny taste, or b/c mom has shortened and limited feeds to the point where it is just not very attractive, does this count as a true child led weaning? The child might only be say, 18 mos. She may not be truly ready to wean and of course, an 18 mo would benefit hugely from more breastmilk.
DaryLLL, I appreciate your open honest questions. I won't take offense because I don't believe that is what you intended. I think it is important to discuss openly and respectfully to help gain understanding (for both of us).

Your question is a subjective one, so I'm not sure why you are asking me what I think. But I'll answer honestly. Yes, ideally, I think CLW is best for every child. But because breastfeeding is a relationship between mother and child, what's best for the mother factors in also. If breastfeeding reaches a point where it is not healthy for the mother (whether it be physical, mental or emotional) then it may come to a point where CLW is not best for the child if it negatively affects the child's relationship with her mother. So then my answer would be, no I don't think CLW is right for every child. But that is why we are here, that is why we have this forum, to help prevent that from happening if at all possible. We are here to help give one another support and encouragement to continue, assuming that is what everyone wants if they are in the CLW forum, and provide alternatives to weaning if the mother is experiencing difficulties. We aren't here to make mothers who PLW their child feel guilty. We are here to honor CLW and to help make it so. CLW doesn't mean the mother becomes a martyr, it is just as wonderful for us as it is for our child. It is an amazing connection, an amazing journey, and something to take pride in.

As for the question of having one child, no that is not why I have one child. I have one child because that is what feels right for us as a whole. We are all happy this way. Every mother hopefully does what is right for her family as a whole.

I have to go because my mother is visiting and is waiting for me to take her somewhere, but I'll be back later to continue the discussion and read everyone else's response.

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#21 of 37 Old 01-04-2005, 07:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
I am asking out of honest curiosity. Just wondering what the parameters and perceived benefits are.
Ok, I'm guilty of being defensive


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
When you say that, do you mean CLW is not right for every mother, but is right for every child?
I can only answer for my child and me and I believe it is right for us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
It is natural for kids to have siblings. Most kids do. (I am certainly not saying it is wrong to have only one child!)
As an only myself and mom to an only, this probably played into my defensiveness, but you're right, if none of us used birth control, I'm sure we'd all have a lot more children! :LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
I also differentiate between habit and need. My final child was nursing for 2 mins at bedtime when he was 4 1/2. Sometimes he would go to bed without nursing. When I suggested he might want to give up that feed, he agreed willingly. But it was my idea. I introduced him to the concept. So this was not child-led but respectful. Yet, as he agreed and was not traumatized, I did not see any harm arose from it. I truly believe if a child has a need, he will object strongly to having it not met. If he has a habit, he will give it up easily.
My 5yo recently went 5 days without nursing. Not wanting to let our nursing relationship go without acknowledging it, I mentioned it and told him that all children stop nursing. He told me he hadn't stopped. I told him that all children do eventually, and he say he "might not"! Then he proceeded to nurse every night for the next several days! His pattern now is to skip a few, nurse a few. I know he's continuing the weaning process at his own pace, and he's communicated in both words and actions that he is not ready to stop. Obviously a different situation than the one you had with your son.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
I hope that was clearer.
Thanks for clarifying!
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#22 of 37 Old 01-06-2005, 09:12 PM
 
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I have to say that I'm not sure what child led weaning is. It seems like it should be pretty straightforward, but maybe I just interpret it wrongly. Probably because I read the Granju AP book and I liked her interpretation. I've never claimed to use child led weaning but child respectful weaning. Sometimes when I haven't wanted to nurse my child, I haven't. I let my first child wean herself more or less, but I'm sure my reactions played a part in things, so I don't call it child led weaning.
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#23 of 37 Old 01-06-2005, 09:25 PM
 
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I'd like to comment on this as well:

Quote:
If a child weans herself while mom is pg b/c of lowered supply or funny taste, or b/c mom has shortened and limited feeds to the point where it is just not very attractive, does this count as a true child led weaning? The child might only be say, 18 mos. She may not be truly ready to wean and of course, an 18 mo would benefit hugely from more breastmilk.
Honestly, I would not consider it CLW for *myself* if that happened (I try not to directly question's other's personal assesments). While I frequented the CLW thread (and now this board, lol) I consider DD's natural weaning progression to have been permanently altered by my pregancy, my requests of her, my altered milk supply, etc... Because of that, I do not consider DD's to have been a "real" child led weaning (even though she nursed through pg and then tandemed 18 months) even though it was her who made the *final* weaning decision.

Really it is an issue of semantics. Some people consider CLW to mean no restrictions *ever*. Some (thought not as many here as IRL) consider it simply to mean that the child chose when to give up the last nursing (even if the mother had weaned them down to one nursing at 5 months and then the child "chose" to give it up).

For our family, it was obviously "worth" the issues we forsaw w/following a CLW path to have a second child. While CLW is a goal, it is not our only goal, and must be fit into the context of many other, sometimes conflicting, desires.

 

 

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#24 of 37 Old 01-07-2005, 12:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mother_sunshine
Yes, ideally, I think CLW is best for every child. But because breastfeeding is a relationship between mother and child, what's best for the mother factors in also. If breastfeeding reaches a point where it is not healthy for the mother (whether it be physical, mental or emotional) then it may come to a point where CLW is not best for the child if it negatively affects the child's relationship with her mother. So then my answer would be, no I don't think CLW is right for every child.



I honestly don't think there's any point in analyzing prior weaning experiences just for the purpose of "labeling" it as CL or ML. I can't imagine CLW happening without the mother imposing SOME limits over the course of time- setting limits is a part of parenting!!

Edited because I was too much of a rush to preview my post before submitting it

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18, and Jack, 12
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#25 of 37 Old 01-07-2005, 01:31 PM
 
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It seems to me that CLW can only happen in these cases:

If the child weans herself while mom is not pg

or

If the mom is pg but nursing does not cause extreme nipple or breast pain

or

If the pg mother somehow has the fortitude and/or acting skills to allow bfing while in extreme pain for 9 mos without causing a huge resentment of bfing and the bfing child
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#26 of 37 Old 01-07-2005, 02:18 PM
 
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Usually when i see "CLW" i run the other way. So i was a little dismayed that the extended nursing board was changed. But, i did lurk here today and i feel i need to add my experiences to this topic. I am currently nursing a 4 1/2 yo (he'll be 5 in 4mos), another son who is just about 3 1/2, and a dd who is almost 10 mos.
I always thought i was CLW. I never thought about it as a term, just that i was letting my child decide when they wanted to wean. Coming to these threads i strongly feel that what i do is not CLW and probably never was. Here are the grey reasons....I have been working part time ever since the birth of my 1st child. I have a great working situation where i work at home, part time in a field i love. It's also a steady, monthly paycheck in times when my dh job is feast or famine (sorry, i guess i'm justifying working). With baby's i've always NAKed, but toddlers don't always want to nak so i felt that i was gyping my child out of quality time with me (mom is trying to get work done and she won't look at me) so i've enrolled them in part time daycare for a few hours a week and they get to do fun, structured things. And then with me, they get to do fun things and nurse. My oldest is now in Pre-K and he is in his elementary school just like the other kids. So those are more restrictions.
I tandem nursed through my 2nd pregnancy, but nightweaned my boys after the 1st tri. I hate nursing on my back and since my 2nd was already 2 i decided that it was time. (plus, i was getting cramps at night and i felt a little uneasy about that). i could see down the road where nursing 3 several times during the night was going to make me a basket case. My milk was supply had pretty much dried up anyways, but somehow i knew my boys would make it through. But, they still had more limits put on them. Days when i was very nauseated (found out how independent my little guys really were..could pour there own drinks, etc), and many painful nipple pains. I really gritted teeth. And then see the boys turn around a go get a glass of water or milk after nursing because they were thirsty!! Ugh! But, thru the pregnancy i learned tricks (like drinking twice the water before bed so i could nurse in the morning without the pain associated with dehydration becuase drinking or eating anything in the morning made me puke). And i would talk to my boys about it. Explain why it hurt or why i had to stop a nursing session. My boys were so sweet. They rarely complained when i could not or did not want to nurse them. But, they still got to nurse each day thru the pregnancy even without the milk.
then i had the baby and i still don't know if the boys were more excited about getting a baby sister (especially watching her birth) or that my milk supply came back.
then came another wave of restrictions, i can't nurse 3 at once. And i had prepared them during the preg that the new baby had to get priority in order to survive!!
so, here i am 10 mos later fully adapted to nursing 3. My boys nurse at least 3 times a day (illness definitely on demand even during the night). My baby nurses on demand.
I try to let my sons end the nursing session. But, i end a lot of the sessions (baby needs to nurse, so one of them has to wait) or it's bedtime. They nurse 20-30 minutes before they go to bed. They rarely end that session. They like to stall a little before bed.
And the delayed. Pick up all your toys first, so we can have ninners. As for my chores, i'll gladly stop for ninners!!!

I can't imagine my sons weaning anytime soon, they absolutely love it. My dh or FIL will ask them if they'd like icecream (this is while they are nursing) and both will refuse. And at no time do i wonder if my kids are ever going to wean, but i do ask myself if i'm going to get a break at times.
But, i do feel i'm being fair to myself and my children. Sometimes they are more high needs, yet sometimes i am more highneeds. At this point my main goal is the special bond my chilren are forming with each other. I see it, and i see it with the baby girl. And of course, the special bond with me. I have had so many loving moments nursing, it keeps me going even when it hurts!

I recently asked my oldest what his favorite part of "ninners" was and he replied, "nursing".

I do notice now, that whenever another mom says she CLW'd, even if the baby is a few months old, i never question it in my mind. that's between her and her baby/baby's, toddler, child, children.
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#27 of 37 Old 01-07-2005, 03:27 PM
 
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*edited because I give up. This website really sucks sometimes.
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#28 of 37 Old 01-07-2005, 03:58 PM
 
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MAN, we all percieve pain diferently. I gave birth twice with no pain medication. I got a few fillings done without novacaine because of mind over pain.
Nursing was/is different because it was/is in my intimate space where the pain was occuring and there was an irritation factor present- almost as if my body was not being respected and it was telling me to not allow the toddler to nurse so much (during pregnancy). It was a "I want to crawl out of my own skin" feeling along with the pain and I did cut back on nursings.

Being right is not always fair, but being fair is always right
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#29 of 37 Old 01-07-2005, 04:05 PM
 
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FWIW, all three of my births were were 100% natural.
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#30 of 37 Old 01-07-2005, 05:22 PM
 
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I have a million thoughts racing through my head...let's see if I can get a few of them down coherently! :LOL

I do believe that the definition for CLW has different definitions for different people and that there isn't one set definition. My definition includes no active interference in the nursing relationship by the mother, but also includes things like teaching nursing manners and includes setting a few limits (like no nursing while Mama is driving ). Nursing is a relationship between nursling and mama. It's important that both be committed to the relationship and that it is a working, comfortable relationship for both. I don't expect all mothers to be comfortable with clw, just as I don't expect all mothers to be comfortable with having a homebirth or with homeschooling or with eating brussel sprouts. Every mama is different (and I don't care how good brussel sprouts may be for me, I just won't eat 'em! :LOL ). I also understand mothers who agree with the concept of CLW but find it difficult in practice. Although I think CLW is ideal, it's not always best because if Mama isn't happy with the nursing relationship, then it will affect the nursling negatively (although not intentionally).

I do believe I'm practicing child-led weaning. I have nursed one through one pregnancy, tandem nursed, tandem nursed through pregnancy, triandem nursed for over 18 months, my oldest ds self-weaning on his fifth birthday as he planned for 6 months ... and one year after his weaning I'm now tandem nursing during pregnancy again.
Pregnancy doesn't interfere with CLW in my case because my supply is still there (I have oversupply issues when not pg...my LLL Leader/lactation consultant and I joke that the only way to fix my oversupply is for me to get pg!), if I experience nipple pain or a bout of extreme nausea while nursing, I just practice relaxation techniques and get through it (because it's not that bad that I can't do that), and I happen to very much enjoy pregnant nursing.
I do work 9 hours a week (3 hours, 3 days a week) away from home, but am able to bring my nurslings with me as long as they have a need to nurse during that time. When they're old enough that they don't require nursing during that time, they stay with Daddy or up the hill from my work with my parents (who upon occasion will bring a nursling to my office to nurse if they're tired, need mama comfort, etc.). I don't believe that this interferes with nursing, as they get to nurse whenever they want and it's natural for a mother to be unavailable to nurse occasionally. (I could go into detail about my kids and why it has worked especially well in our experience, but I won't bore you with details!)
My oldest ds ... my "natural weaner" ... planned his weaning for 6 months. That's just the way he is. He decided that he really didn't need to nurse anymore and was ready to wean, but wanted to ease himself into it. He's a planner. He nursed sporadically for those 6 months...really slowing down toward the end. A week before his fifth birthday, he changed his mind. He nursed every day. The day before his birthday he said he was really ready. I told him it was up to him and that I'd nurse him as long as he needed. He nursed for the last time in our bed ... just the two of us ... he asked me to tell him "his story" (his birth, nursing him as a baby, nursing through Zachary's pregnancy, tandem nursing, nursing through Haley's pregnancy, triandem nursing) and I did - for 20 minutes as he nursed for the last time. That was it. He woke up the next morning "weaned". He's asked to try a few times since then, I've let him, and he's laughed when his mouth gets near my breast. There was no pressure for him to wean. I left it totally up to him. He even said he'd un-wean on his sixth birthday ... I reminded him of that fact a few days before his 6th birthday and he thought it was funny.

Zachary is 4.5 and continues to nurse. Haley is 2.5 and continues to nurse. I'm pregnant again and haven't seen the slightest dip in my supply ... as a matter of fact, my right breast (Zachary's breast ) got a big engorged last night because he didn't nurse before bed. I once asked Zachary if he was going to wean (we were talking about Alex's weaning and a friend of his who weaned ... it was in the context of the conversation) and he said, "Yeah...probably when I'm 10 or maybe 16 like Rachel (his babysitter!)...it has to be two numbers old though, not 6 or 7 or 8 or 9." So I guess we have a ways to go!

Mama to A (12), Z (11), H (9), C (5), A (3) and 4 angels. 

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