Devastated! My 16 mo quit nursing! - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 85 Old 08-03-2006, 11:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sebarnes
It is an interesting question. Although I question whether our food in most cases can really be considered "decent.

I will say that we studed the !Kung tribe extensively in one of my anthro classes in college, and when their diet was analyzed it was actually far more nutritious than the SAD. They died younger because their lives were filled with more unpredictability and hardship than ours, but their over health and quality of life was better (i.e. - they weren't nearly as sick as we are!). They were more likely to die from infected wounds or dehydration than inadequate nutrition. Of course, I can't extrapolate that data to every "primitive" society.
However, even if their diet was better than the SAD they were very likely using many more calories in their normal daily life than a typical mom these days don't you think? So stands to reason that a mom today has lots more calories to devote to nursing/fertility/her own body which might result in a sooner return to fertility.

Even a mom who is relatively active as I consider myself to be cannot begin to compare to a woman who is physically working all day every day right?
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#62 of 85 Old 08-04-2006, 01:45 AM
 
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Absolutely, LolaK. My thought was more that just because we have "more" food and more food options doesn't mean we are healthier overall. So early return of fertility due to that may not necessarily be normal. I don't know. I'm just talking off the cuff about certain things that I think may be causing earlier return to fertility than historically.

, , , and
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#63 of 85 Old 08-04-2006, 09:40 AM
 
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The whole return to fertility is fascinating to me because I still haven't gotten my period at 18 months but I know people who got it so much earlier and who nurse just as much as I do.

I totally agree with you that the SAD is pretty bad and that most americans are sadly lacking in the overall health department - can you say sitting on our butts too much?
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#64 of 85 Old 08-04-2006, 11:10 AM
 
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My understanding is that nursing strikes are obviously distressing to the baby, and come on suddenly (backed up by the links at kellymom and LLL). That doesn't sound exactly like the situation at hand. There are exceptions to the rule, and a baby nigh on to 1.5 who is eating, growing, healthy, happy, and just doesn't want to nurse - I wouldn't really worry about pressing the issue.
With that said, I'm sorry for the sadness. I understand that it wasn't what you were hoping for, and I commend you for being committed to meeting your child's needs. It sounds like you are already working out new ways to be close and connected, through touching, cuddling, and singing. But you have every right to mourn.
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#65 of 85 Old 08-07-2006, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hello my friends,
I wish my update (finally!) came with the news we all were hoping for but my little guy still is not nursing after almost 3 weeks. However ...

-I did take a pregnancy test: negative.
-I've analyzed everything I eat, wear, shower with, etc. - nothing different that would invoke his refusal.
-he doesn't do pacifiers, bottles or sippys anyway
-he's shown no obvious signs of pain or distress and nothing has changed in our lives or routines.
-I continually offered the breast, asked if he'd like to nurse, etc. He grew very angry with me and starting to pull away in other ways as well - not wanting me to put him to bed, hold him, etc. OOPS - not the kind of mom I want to be!

My wise 13 y/o son says to me one day,
"Mom, maybe he's just done and you just need to let it be. He's still a baby in so many other ways, enjoy those instead"

Wow.

So, I continued baring my top when I put him down for naps and bedtime and we all sleep in the buff anyway so lots of contact there. About a week ago, in the morning I offered him the breast and he just put his mouth on it (not a latch on) and he pulled away -- he did that twice last week. I didn't pull him back or push it on him - just smiled and let him know it's still there. Today when I was singing him to sleep for his nap, he put his hand between my breasts and said "nurse" so I offered him the breast and he turned away.
BUT ...
he knows it's still there waiting for him and that Mama will always let him have his "nurse" when/if he's ready.

THANK YOU all so much for your words of advice and support. It's especially comforting to know that there are other moms who have felt that indescribable emptyness and grief that comes with the loss of a relationship. Let me say though, that the pain does diminish and I have taken my eldest son's advice and am embracing all the other "baby things" about my little guy.

I hope to come back here with news of his nursing again but if not, I'll still come back here knowing I have such an AWESOME community of like-minded moms that are by my side.
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#66 of 85 Old 08-07-2006, 05:50 PM
 
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#67 of 85 Old 08-07-2006, 06:27 PM
 
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The change in women and fertility cycles is very interesting. Are girls now getting their first periods earlier than when we were kids? Going into puberty earlier? And does this affect our fertility cycles after babies? Could be... and if so what is causing it? Interesting stuff.
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#68 of 85 Old 08-07-2006, 07:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PatchyMama
The change in women and fertility cycles is very interesting. Are girls now getting their first periods earlier than when we were kids? Going into puberty earlier? And does this affect our fertility cycles after babies? Could be... and if so what is causing it? Interesting stuff.
Hi everyone!

BGH and other hormones in milk and meat is one possible reason. Also twin births are way up since the 1970s.

Regarding getting pregnant while BF: I also would look at climate related reasons. I live on Kauai, and 6 weeks after giving birth I had my period back (I did not drink cowsmilk, cause we thought the colicy baby might be allergic to milk). Most midwifes and doctors on the island warn that even 100% BF does not interfere with fertility here.

Sonja, mom to Leilani 12/7/05, wife to Andy and aunty to cats Mikey and JoJo
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#69 of 85 Old 08-07-2006, 07:45 PM
 
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I'm sitting here reading these posts about nursing strikes and sobbing. We're on a three-day strike, but it feels like an eternity. My ds is 23 months, nurses on a pretty regular basis (morning, naps, bedtime, night, when he's hurt/angry/sad), and then he gets a fever. This lasts for a few days, still nursing, and then this weekend- nada, nothing. He starts to latch on but stops and starts crying. Oh boy. I found out he's got canker sores (another thread in health and healing-but if anyone has ideas on how to help heal, LMK-BTW, Oragel did NOT help-it was a disaster). It also looks as if his stomach teeth are coming in. Now ds is adamantly refusing to nurse. When I ask the response ranges from a soft, sweet, "no," to "Mommy, milk is all gone!" or "Mommy, I'm all done!" Now, my milk is *not* all gone, trust me on this one. Of course, I thought, maybe he's weaning, but it goes against all I know about weaning. He's miserable too. Cries a lot, is tired. Part of that is that he hurts, but he's looking for comfort and having a hard time finding an alternative. I KNOW this can't be weaning, because if it were, he would be content and ready to "move on." It's so hard for him to sleep and get comfort, and he's really attached himself to Daddy, which isn't so bad, but, still, I want to be his Mommy. He often doesn't even want to snuggle, and at night he rolls on to his stomach, away from me. If I try to pull him toward me, he pushes himself as far as he can (we have a crib attached to our bed, so he can get away). I tried to nurse him after he was asleep, but he woke up right away and was really angry.

Some other things we've tried that haven't worked (though it MAY for someone else)

Nursing his stuffed animals. He thinks this is great, and was bringing me animals before this strike. Now, I tried to use it to get him to nurse. No doing.
Logical reasoning "I know your mouth hurts. But remember that milk has helped your other owies? Just try."
Milk in a cup. He loves to watch me pump, is facinated with the milk in the cup, but nothing doing. I even put it in the fridge, thinking it might feel better cold. Nope.
Not to hijack the conversation, but I have a few questions, if others have opinions or answers:
1) Do I continue to offer milk, or do I wait for him to ask?? I think my asking his causing him to push me away, and maybe if I let it go, he'll start to snuggle again (kind of like the sex and affection thing-don't let him/her snuggle with you because he/she will want sex, KWIM? )
2) How often should I pump? I'm not too worried about losing my milk supply.I've always an abundance, sometimes too much. I know when they're babies you need to pump when you would normally nurse, but ds is not "regular" in that sometimes he nurses two times, sometimes twelve (well, maybe not twelve, but you know what I mean!)

On a humorous note-I was explaining to my dh that ds is on a nursing strike. Dh said he has this picture of our son sitting in the living room with a sign that says,"No milk." Then he started chanting protest rhymes, substituting milk stuff instead. It was so funny-I'll ask him to tell me again, and then post them. We need a nursing strike smilie!

BTW- in regard to the AF thing, I did everything you're "supposed" to when it comes to breastfeeding, but got Auntie Flow at 3 months. Of course, at the time I was dealing with an "abundance" problem, and the lactation consultant thinks that when I got my supply to normal, it caused my body to think I was weaning. Whadya gonna do??:
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#70 of 85 Old 08-08-2006, 02:01 AM
 
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I just wanted to come in and add that my two dd's did wean themselves at 16months. My original plan was to do at least 2 years (my grandmother suggested it) but my girls didn't want to do it anymore past 16 months and I was ok with that.
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#71 of 85 Old 08-08-2006, 10:03 AM
 
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I just wanted to say that I totally feel your pain.....my dd just weaned at
25mos. while she is older than yours, it doesn't hurt any less when you were NOT expecting it...this does feel like a GREAT, GREAT loss much more than I ever anticipated....... I'm... but she is doing fine and potty training too, alot of milestones happening this month!

I would like to say to the other posters that I don't believe this mama was looking for discussions/arguments about how long to BF ........she needed sympathy and consouling [?sp] I can tell you if this was my post that I would have been very hurt reading some of these STRONG opinions....

more to you mama, hopefully time will ease your pain and you will fill your emptiness w/all the "babyness" left in him as your 13 y.o. so eloquently said.....I have been trying to do that w/mine and it does seem to help some..........

ALL THE BEST TO YOU!!
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#72 of 85 Old 08-08-2006, 10:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soladeo
I'm sitting here reading these posts about nursing strikes and sobbing. We're on a three-day strike, but it feels like an eternity. My ds is 23 months, nurses on a pretty regular basis (morning, naps, bedtime, night, when he's hurt/angry/sad), and then he gets a fever. This lasts for a few days, still nursing, and then this weekend- nada, nothing. He starts to latch on but stops and starts crying. Oh boy. I found out he's got canker sores (another thread in health and healing-but if anyone has ideas on how to help heal, LMK-BTW, Oragel did NOT help-it was a disaster).
The Coxsackievirus (also known as Hand, Foot, Mouth disease) is frequently mistaken for canker sores. It is a very common childhood illness--like chickenpox. Your discription of the fever and sores sounds like coxsackie to me. link
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#73 of 85 Old 08-08-2006, 10:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ChrUnschoolingmama
I just wanted to come in and add that my two dd's did wean themselves at 16months. My original plan was to do at least 2 years (my grandmother suggested it) but my girls didn't want to do it anymore past 16 months and I was ok with that.
Out of curiosity, were you still offering to nurse often? Did you set any limits? Were they getting any other milks or any other sucking? (bottles, pacifiers, sippy cups) Were you pregnant when they weaned?

-Angela
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#74 of 85 Old 08-08-2006, 01:28 PM
 
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Ju-cee - I think that if all the op was wanting was sympathy and consoling, she would have posted in BBI, NOT the child led weaning forum. What I got from her post was that she wanted to know if her child was truely weaning, and if not,what she could try to do to get them back on the breast. And that was what the posters were trying to do. And while the thread did take a little tangent, it was in response to an answering post, not the opening post.

, , , and
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#75 of 85 Old 08-08-2006, 08:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sunnysideup
The Coxsackievirus (also known as Hand, Foot, Mouth disease) is frequently mistaken for canker sores. It is a very common childhood illness--like chickenpox. Your discription of the fever and sores sounds like coxsackie to me. link

Ah yes, the hand foot mouth disease. I had this when I was 14. Yes, actually 14. My brother was 4, he got it, but felt fine. He ran around the house, annoying me, and I felt like c**p. I never gave it a thought. I get canker sores after being sick, so just assumed . . .
I'll check out the link-thanks.



BTW-my husband's nursing strike chant:

Hey, ho,
Hey, Hey Ho,
Breast-milk has got to go!

Update on the strike: Negotiations have stalled. The labor union is refusing to discuss the issue. Milk continues to back up in breast, and management is concerned on how the strike will affect future stock prices.

Seriously,
It is so hard. He wakes up in the middle of the night and is lost about how to get back to sleep. It breaks my heart, and when I try to comfort him he gets really mad. Dad is the one who rocks him back to sleep. Naps have been a nightmare too. We are all lacking sleep. My LLL leader suggests letting it go, because as she says, he can communicate when he wants it. I continue to pump- which he really enjoys-which irritates me of course.

I AM reciting a little story to him once in a while, about a boy who didn't want milk, but that after a while he decided he DID want it, and Mommy gave it to him.
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#76 of 85 Old 08-08-2006, 08:56 PM
 
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Mama .... I hope you can hang in there, he will come back to it most likely, its just a matter of how long.
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#77 of 85 Old 08-08-2006, 08:58 PM
 
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Soladeo - I'm so sorry things are rough right now! You sound like you are doing all the right things! I love the idea of telling the story - totally cool and sweet! I can imagine that the sleep issue is hard. dd is 18ish months and she MUST nurse back to sleep at night, so she too, would be totally lost without it. I hope you guys can get things worked out!

, , , and
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#78 of 85 Old 08-09-2006, 03:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnysideup
The Coxsackievirus (also known as Hand, Foot, Mouth disease) is frequently mistaken for canker sores. It is a very common childhood illness--like chickenpox. Your discription of the fever and sores sounds like coxsackie to me. link
Yup. Canker sores almost *never* happen to babies. I'd say it's *definitely* coxsackievirus. DD had it at only 8 or 9 months and was still almost exclusively breastfed, but even she stopped nursing for 3 or 4 days because of it. She'd seem fine and happy, but she refused the breast any time it was offered. If she did latch on, she'd immediately let go and cry.
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#79 of 85 Old 08-09-2006, 07:41 AM
 
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My experience is that ds1 weaned at 17 months, when I was 5 months pregnant with his brother. He had been on an average of 1 nursing strike a week since 8 months of age, and giving him permission to follow his instincts made both of us much happier. FWIW, this child was big-born, grew fast and had long preferred solids: with the benefit of hindsight, he probably had silent reflux. In retrospect, I wish I hadn't spent those months obsessing about his boobie time.
ds2 had a 10 day nursing strike at 21 months and I let him go from the breast. Every child is different.
I do have concerns with kellymom: there's information and support out there that she just doesn't reference, and some of what she says comes across as very dogmatic. Child led weaning is child led even if they do it early rather than late. Babies don't read websites.

Helen mum to five and mistress of mess and mayhem, making merry and mischief til the sun goes down.
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#80 of 85 Old 08-13-2006, 04:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thismama
The stories you've heard are impossible, or heavily influenced by factors not disclosed to you. For children 18-24 mos, and certainly for children 6-12 months, breastfeeding is not only an emotional need, but a physical/nutritive need too.

A 6 month old who decides to self wean is committing suicide, as far as they know. If you start feeding formula that is one thing. But if you are just plain old nursing your babe the natural way, babies and young toddlers do not self wean.

My dd self weaned at 9.5 months. I thought it was a strike as well, I offered and she refused and that was that. I am sure it could be rare.
But it could happen. In a two week period she stopped wanting to sleep with me, would hold on to the bars of her crib I used for napping, that
had only just been set up. She went from crawling, to walking, gave up the breast, wanted to sleep on her own. I was really sad. I followed
her cues, but offered her what I thought was best. She refused.

It all seemed too fast for it all to happen at once, but it did.

My dd is furiously independent now at 6. She is not much of a cuddlier. She sneaks into my bed from time to time. Every night she requests that
I lay down with her until she falls asleep. Some nights I fall asleep with her and she will wake me up and tell me to go back to my bed.
I love these moments that she wants to be close to me cause they are
few and far between.

She is a really sweet gal, she just likes her space, always has.

-Janna, independent mother of dd, Ms. Mattie Sky born on my 25th birthday, 06*23*2000. My Mama Feb.21,1938-Sept.10,2006
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#81 of 85 Old 08-14-2006, 05:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes
It's just that I know quite a few women who seem to have a much earlier return to fertility than one would expect from cosleeping, no-paci, feeding-on-demand type lifestyles. I really, really thought I'd be one of those women struggling to get my fertility back when my kid was two, not one of the ones who saw AF at seven months pp.

It was a major factor in deciding to "let nature take her course;" I honestly never envisioned having kids 18 months apart.

So I often wonder whether it's not so much an issue of "unnatural" lifestyles and more a matter of unfettered access to decent food. Which makes me wonder whether marginal nutrition for women is as responsible for the much-discussed 36-month average spacing as EBF.
Hi, I'm just lurking a little in this forum trying to get a grasp of what is and what isn't CLW, and how it relates to me (and my toddler!)

Reading through this thread, I thought I'd add to one of the sub-discussions and just suggest that another factor in the faster-than-expected return to fertility could be night-lighting. It's an issue I first encountered in Katie Singer's book, The Garden of Fertility. I can't find my copy of the book at the moment, but she does discuss manipulating night-lighting in relation to increasing/supporting fertility (lunaception.) However, night-lighting also comes up in her discussion of lactational amenorrhea, and she stresses the importance of "ecological" breastfeeding and sleeping in darkness. And she goes on to provide a definition of "darkness" that I know rules out my current sleep situation. (We leave the nightlight on in the bathroom for my mom, and some light comes in around our door. I definitely can see my hand in front of my face at night, even though it's pretty dark. And it was even more light in our room in the early months post-partum, when I needed to be able to see in order to latch the baby on. I can't remember when that stopped being an issue, but by that time, we were just leaving the hall light on and the door propped open as a rule.) My period returned at just over 11 months post-partum, and when I read Singer's book, I thought I'd pay more attention to the night-lighting aspect if I have another baby, because I'd like to go longer next time.

Anyway, there's a section in one chapter of the book that deals with establishing unambiguous infertility while nursing, and it was my impression that once well-established in the first (four to six?) months, it's possible to extend the nursing-infertility even after dropping some feedings and introducing solids, etc. The frequency of feedings in the early months AND the night-lighting were (if I remember rightly) two very key elements of on-going unambiguous infertility.

And that part of the equation might explain the earlier return to fertility. Not sure about the caloric thing, as I'd imagine that many of the women who do experience unambiguous infertility while nursing are quite nourished enough to support and sustain a pregnancy and ongoing nursing....
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#82 of 85 Old 08-14-2006, 06:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AmyC

Anyway, there's a section in one chapter of the book that deals with establishing unambiguous infertility while nursing, and it was my impression that once well-established in the first (four to six?) months, it's possible to extend the nursing-infertility even after dropping some feedings and introducing solids, etc. The frequency of feedings in the early months AND the night-lighting were (if I remember rightly) two very key elements of on-going unambiguous infertility.
This is so interesting, I am at 18 months and still no period. So when would fertility return for people who have established "unambiguous infertility?"
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#83 of 85 Old 08-14-2006, 07:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by trinity6232000
My dd self weaned at 9.5 months. I thought it was a strike as well, I offered and she refused and that was that. I am sure it could be rare.
Sorry, but it was a nursing strike. Did you give her other milk or milk products? At only 9.5 months old a baby needs milk for nutrition.

-Angela
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#84 of 85 Old 08-15-2006, 05:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna
Sorry, but it was a nursing strike. Did you give her other milk or milk products? At only 9.5 months old a baby needs milk for nutrition.

-Angela

Nope dd didn't have milk from a cow until she was around 2yo. I stated my
story simply, didn't get into many details, but how can somebody 100% state
that it was a strike. I read everything I could get my hands on at the time.
I felt pretty rejected at the time as well. I couldn't force her to nurse.

You'll have your opinion, and I'll have mine. I wasn't fighting the majority
opinion of the thread, I was just stating what happened to me.

-Janna, independent mother of dd, Ms. Mattie Sky born on my 25th birthday, 06*23*2000. My Mama Feb.21,1938-Sept.10,2006
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#85 of 85 Old 08-19-2006, 05:55 PM
 
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Awww! Honey! My daughter up and quit on me cold turkey and it made me feel so bad! I know how you feel!
~bless~
Joni
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