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#1 of 58 Old 01-03-2007, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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really committed to CLW- even on the other AP boards / groups I am in.
Anyone else seriously committed- like no night weaning, very little boundries. Completely and totally child led?
My 26 month old basically has 4 boundries:
no biting
no rough twiddling
not in the car (kinda hard since i'm driving)
and he has to wait if i am in the bathroom or dealing with another child.

I'm feeling so alone, like everyone else even in the AP world is night weaning- or setting boundries like- only for x amount of minutes- then since they are not actively "weaning" they call it CLW, and make out like I am a permissive parent. :

So I came here to feel like I'm not alone.

Punk, hippy, mama to 4 amazing kiddos, Boy#1 (18), TheGirl (13), Boy#2 (11- PBD) and Boy#3 (6)
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#2 of 58 Old 01-03-2007, 03:50 PM
 
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You are not alone
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#3 of 58 Old 01-03-2007, 07:24 PM
 
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You are not alone. i am 100% with you, and I know how you feel, about feeling like the only one! But nope you are not!!
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#4 of 58 Old 01-03-2007, 08:11 PM
 
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You aren't alone, I don't even get peace in the bathroom

nothing more to say I guess :
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#5 of 58 Old 01-03-2007, 08:25 PM
 
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You're not alone.

-Angela
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#6 of 58 Old 01-03-2007, 09:33 PM
 
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You're not alone, not at all.

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#7 of 58 Old 01-03-2007, 09:52 PM
 
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when dd1 was 26 mos i was at the same point. i often wish i still was, but find i've changed. i chose to wean down dd1 (eventually mama led weaned at 4 3/4) to ttc dd2 (pushing 40 at the time, tick, tick, tick...), and i do a lot of limits these days due to discomfort from poor latch on dd2's part.

it's too bad that people are criticizing you for your choices. sometimes people do this when they feel guilty about their own choices, and are trying to prop themselves up by setting up a right/wrong dividing line, them=right, therefore you=wrong.

good luck to you, it's a wonderful gift to your child to be in harmony with their needs, and you'll set an example for others. i know i was strongly influenced by the cosleeping/bfing example of a good friend of mine whose kids are a few years older than mine.

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#8 of 58 Old 01-03-2007, 11:23 PM
 
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you are not ALONE at all!! but i totally understand how you feel - i am tandeming a 4 year old and a 10 month old - and if it was not for MDC, and a few people i have FINALLY met in real life - i would feel totally alone too!

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#9 of 58 Old 01-04-2007, 12:27 AM
 
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I'm nursing my 38-month-old DS and feel that I am still doing CLW although my boundaries might be different than yours. I did nightwean at 2 1/2 because I was so utterly sleep deprived that I could not function. I think every child has their own personality and each child's nursing needs and patterns are different. I have been committed to our nursing relationship and have had to come to terms with my own limitations. When my nipples start to hurt, we count to 12. When I am so sore that wearing a bra hurts (as happens at different points in my cycle), I limit nursing more. If I had not nightweaned and continue to nurse when I am in pain, our nursing relationship may look different, but the impact to our attachment relationship would have been evident. If that makes me a long-term nurser as opposed to a CLW'er by definition, than that's fine. This board has been an enormous source of information and support. Very few people are nursing at this stage of the game and I think anyone choosing to honor the child's desire to continue nursing (even if those needs are not met perfectly) is doing a beautiful thing.
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#10 of 58 Old 01-04-2007, 01:14 AM
 
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I'm nursing my 38-month-old DS and feel that I am still doing CLW although my boundaries might be different than yours. I did nightwean at 2 1/2 because I was so utterly sleep deprived that I could not function. I think every child has their own personality and each child's nursing needs and patterns are different. I have been committed to our nursing relationship and have had to come to terms with my own limitations. When my nipples start to hurt, we count to 12. When I am so sore that wearing a bra hurts (as happens at different points in my cycle), I limit nursing more. If I had not nightweaned and continue to nurse when I am in pain, our nursing relationship may look different, but the impact to our attachment relationship would have been evident. If that makes me a long-term nurser as opposed to a CLW'er by definition, than that's fine. This board has been an enormous source of information and support. Very few people are nursing at this stage of the game and I think anyone choosing to honor the child's desire to continue nursing (even if those needs are not met perfectly) is doing a beautiful thing.
I'm still nursing my 40 mo, and at 26 mos we had NO limits either.. but with my supply going down, not having had over 3 hrs sleep at time for over 3.5 years etc etc... we had to start implementing some limits (really easy loose ones, but limits all the same) on what I could handle. It was either that or we would NOT still be nursing. I think it is CLW'ing, but I'm also teaching her that mama has limits on what she can handle. But it hasn't been anything she wasn't ready for (if it caused problems or too much upset we took a few steps back), and she is still getting to decide the true end- which since she is still nursing up to 8x/day at least is a bit off.
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#11 of 58 Old 01-04-2007, 03:47 AM
 
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I think I know which board you're talking about and ya, its sad.

You're not alone though!
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#12 of 58 Old 01-04-2007, 06:41 AM
 
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My DD is.... wow - 42 months now - haven't thought it out in months in a long time. and I am the only one from my circle of friends (except one mommy I met here at MDC) who still nurses at all.

At around 22-24 months I considered night-weaning because I didn't sleep through most of my pregnancy with DD and she was/is very high needs. We were still nursing every hour or so during the night around that time, but when I looked into how to night-wean on Dr. Jay Gordon's site, it seemed like too much work. The Pantley book was too much work. I could hardly function during the day, let alone at night, how was I supposed to keep track of sleeping and nursing habits by the hour when I would stumble into the doorframe on my way to the bathroom after DD was done nursing? Thankfully, DD's final teeth came in shortly before her 2nd birthday and I was able to finally get sleep in between 2-3 nursing per night.

I think I actually started getting 4-5 hours between nursings at night around 2-1/2 or so. But that seems to fluctuate a lot depending upon stresses at home, nightmares, etc. And most of the time, she still nurses at least 6-8+ times a day. She just really loves milkies.

Sometimes, DH suggests I try to wean her, but I just find it easier to nurse than to fight it. I do set some boundaries now. Sometimes, I'll offer her food because if she's hungry, she'll nurse all day and not eat. If she actually is hungry she'll usually have some food and nurse later.

I still NIP all over town, though I avoid doing it in the car. Not that I am shy about it, but DD is big enough to pass for 4+ years old and it's just not that comfortable for me to nurse all squished into the car.

Also, I sometimes ask her to wait a few minutes if I am in the middle of something or if I am really grouchy or feeling touched out. But most of the time, she gets her milkies when she wants. So after all this I guess all I am saying is that no, you are not alone. :P

I have noticed that I get much better sleep when she sleeps in our bed. She has her own double bed (which we purchased so that I could nurse in her room with her). Now she usually wants to sleep in her bed, but wants me to stay in there with her. I'd really like to sleep with DH if DD is in her own bed. He's still OK with the Family Bed though too. I just tend to kind of bounce back and forth between my bed and DD's if she's in her bed and wants milkies.

And slightly OT here, but is this just me, or does it seem like the only time night nursers actually sleep through the night is when mommy can't sleep for some reason? I don't get it. :

I am a 40 year old unschooling, belly dancing, artist-mama of one almost 8 year old. I just had brain surgery and blogging.jpg about it a bit because it's just so surreal.
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#13 of 58 Old 01-04-2007, 08:50 PM
 
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I'm still nursing my 40 mo, and at 26 mos we had NO limits either.. but with my supply going down, not having had over 3 hrs sleep at time for over 3.5 years etc etc... we had to start implementing some limits (really easy loose ones, but limits all the same) on what I could handle. It was either that or we would NOT still be nursing. I think it is CLW'ing, but I'm also teaching her that mama has limits on what she can handle. But it hasn't been anything she wasn't ready for (if it caused problems or too much upset we took a few steps back), and she is still getting to decide the true end- which since she is still nursing up to 8x/day at least is a bit off.

Yup. My son is now 25 months old and we have no limits either. But, I did nightwean my older son, who, incidentally is weaning now and almost 5, so absolutely child-led despite the nightweaning. BUT, I'm looking forward to night-weaning my younger guy, but I am waiting until he has all his teeth, so probably another 6 months or so. (I am not night-weaning while he has pain).

I do always wonder and have read here about those who do not night wean seem to have children who sleep better and those of us who do night wean are up all night long. Does that make sense? If my DS was waking 2-3x a night I would have no problem nursing all night for as long as it takes, but when he wakes a good 10x and needs to nurse both breasts for about a half hr which I am completely unable to sleep through, I think it becomes old real quick and one needs to ask what is more important----night nursing with an incredibly tired mommy who is NOT sleeping at all, or keeping the nursing on demand to the daylight hours and a much happier family.
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#14 of 58 Old 01-05-2007, 04:01 PM
 
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lately i've been thinking this same thing.
but i've also been questioning my commitment, too, because we decided to have another child, and i worry this will affect dd's nursing (15 weeks along - so far so good). for me, CLW is such an emotional commitment and so outside the cultural norm that it takes lots of thought and reevaluation (even if it doesn't take much energy - or maybe it does - it just seems so physically easy to me to keep going and not be able to find any reasons to wean). i won't nightwean and she still nurses at least every two hours at night, often more, at 3 years 8 months. her daytime nursing has really stretched out (even before the pregnancy) and some days she will nurse upon waking and then not till late evening (for the record i NEVER, EVER thought i would see the day!)
i still NIP, but we do have one situation in which we don't nurse, and it makes me kind of sad. we can't nurse at dd's preschool when i pick her up and the (slightly) older kids are out on the playground. it's a huge 1/2 acre wooded lot but no matter where we sit if we nurse there a throng of children eventually gathers and we all have an extended conversation about extended breastfeeding and other cultures and why, no, she's not too old to nurse, and it just gets overwhelming and dd won't really nurse anyway because, of course, she wants in on the conversation, and i'm so afraid that she'll believe them, somehow, even after all we've talked about, because they're her peers. and i don't want to ever imply to a child, even accidentally, that they weren't nursed long enough or have missed out. so we don't nurse there anymore. it hurts the most when it comes form children. another friend of mine lost her milk after nightweaning at one year (with all due respect to mamas who really needed to nightwean for sanity, how many times have i heard this story?! they hit one year, then "it's time", so no comfort at the breast at night and then they just, magically, become disinterested during the day. huh.) and her little daughter (who i pumped for!) told my not 3.5 yo that she was too big, and only babies do that. that sounds snarky and i don't mean it to - it doesn't make me angry, just so so sad. i can deal with all the non-CLW comments from adults (when they aren't behind my back ) but the comments from children just break my heart.
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#15 of 58 Old 01-05-2007, 04:52 PM
 
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That's how I did it.

One boundary was that I sometimes said I was too tired to nurse at night. But I did not night wean. I took it one night at a time. For a long time. Because dd could accept that after about age 2. On nights she could not accept it I would nurse her if at all possible. It was a respectful, give and take, negotiation when she was ready to accept that.

Take the time to heal from your marriage before you move on with someone else. Make a list of all the qualities you would like in a new partner and then work on growing that way yourself. ~mandib50
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#16 of 58 Old 01-05-2007, 08:19 PM
 
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lately i've been thinking this same thing.
but i've also been questioning my commitment, too, because we decided to have another child, and i worry this will affect dd's nursing (15 weeks along - so far so good). for me, CLW is such an emotional commitment and so outside the cultural norm that it takes lots of thought and reevaluation (even if it doesn't take much energy - or maybe it does - it just seems so physically easy to me to keep going and not be able to find any reasons to wean). i won't nightwean and she still nurses at least every two hours at night, often more, at 3 years 8 months. her daytime nursing has really stretched out (even before the pregnancy) and some days she will nurse upon waking and then not till late evening (for the record i NEVER, EVER thought i would see the day!)
........
another friend of mine lost her milk after nightweaning at one year (with all due respect to mamas who really needed to nightwean for sanity, how many times have i heard this story?! they hit one year, then "it's time", so no comfort at the breast at night and then they just, magically, become disinterested during the day. huh.) and her little daughter (who i pumped for!) told my not 3.5 yo that she was too big, and only babies do that. that sounds snarky and i don't mean it to - it doesn't make me angry, just so so sad. i can deal with all the non-CLW comments from adults (when they aren't behind my back ) but the comments from children just break my heart.


I still don't think I'll ever see that day (when she only nurses twice) and my dd is just a few months younger than yours. I honestly almost wish I was preggo because if we got through the pregnancy there would be more milk for her, kwim? : And it's not easier for me to stay up each night while she is nursing, especially in the early morning (from like 4:30 on) and lose sleep than it is to tell her booboo is sleeping and if she insists to say, ok, one minute, pop her off after that and then actually get some sleep. LOL! If I could do like I used to and sleep though it... I would have NO PROBLEM continuing. But it's affecting my health and my mental wellbeing. :

With all due respect to you there is a big difference between gently encouraging less nursing at night at 3 yo than at 12 mos, kwim? : I haven't "night weaned" but I definitely am trying for less nursing, because I can not sleep through it now that my nips have regained sensation . So, we'll nurse for a minute minimum if she doesn't accept that the booboos are sleeping . It's much more comfort nursing (esp since the supply just isn't there anymore) which I know she needs, but I also need more than 1 hr of sleep at a time if at all possible, after 4 years (because 4 years ago I was a few wks preggo *sniff*) of very broken sleep. I guess if my doing everything I can to make sure she makes the ultimate decision to stop isn't CLW'ing I don't know what is.
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#17 of 58 Old 01-05-2007, 11:17 PM
 
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With all due respect to you there is a big difference between gently encouraging less nursing at night at 3 yo than at 12 mos, kwim? : I haven't "night weaned" but I definitely am trying for less nursing, because I can not sleep through it now that my nips have regained sensation . So, we'll nurse for a minute minimum if she doesn't accept that the booboos are sleeping . It's much more comfort nursing (esp since the supply just isn't there anymore) which I know she needs, but I also need more than 1 hr of sleep at a time if at all possible, after 4 years (because 4 years ago I was a few wks preggo *sniff*) of very broken sleep. I guess if my doing everything I can to make sure she makes the ultimate decision to stop isn't CLW'ing I don't know what is.
sorry, mel, i wasn't very clear. i'm not morally opposed to nightweaning. i even tried it at 2.5 years and it was such a horrible experience i gained alot of empathy for mamas who need to do it. (so THAT'S what it's like to be out of your mind and miserable all day because of your nights! fully waking to nurse every hour and a half was nothing compared to those few weeks of pretending the "nursings" were sleeping. the inconsolable SCREAMING child whose daytime temperment had completely changed let me know it was not working.) i was (maybe unfairly?) complaining about the many mamas who surround me in real life who nightwean at 3, 6, or 12 months because they are "supposed" to and then love to point out to me that their babies just wean themselves after a combination of super-strict nightweaning and being offered sippy cups of cow's milk on their first birthday. i was just blowing off a little steam about that kind of stuff here in the CLW forum since the thread was about feeling alone and not having support for choosing a different path. i've chosen not to nightwean (after my aforementioned sorry attempt) because it isn't right for my child, and it isn't right for me. i'm sorry if you felt offended. i certainly didn't mean to imply that a mama of a 3.5 year old couldn't have discussions with her nursling about respect and boundaries and needs about nursing or anything else. what else would i do all day if i thought that wasn't okay?

and six months ago, when dd would nurse pretty much every two hours around the clock, i thought she might be the exception to the rule - that she really might be the child who all the doubters warn you about - the child that would NEVER cut back, let alone wean herself. six short months ago. i'm still SHOCKED it's "working".
she nursed like a newborn (literally) until just past 3.5 and then she would go for three, four hours somedays, then the same # of hours but more frequent days and in the past month or so i would suddenly realize it had been since morning and it was now 4pm...SHOCK. complete shock.
i don't know if it will happen soon for you or not, but it will happen.
i swear it, and you'll be shocked.
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#18 of 58 Old 01-05-2007, 11:36 PM
 
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sorry, mel, i wasn't very clear. i'm not morally opposed to nightweaning. i even tried it at 2.5 years and it was such a horrible experience i gained alot of empathy for mamas who need to do it. (so THAT'S what it's like to be out of your mind and miserable all day because of your nights! fully waking to nurse every hour and a half was nothing compared to those few weeks of pretending the "nursings" were sleeping. the inconsolable SCREAMING child whose daytime temperment had completely changed let me know it was not working.) i was (maybe unfairly?) complaining about the many mamas who surround me in real life who nightwean at 3, 6, or 12 months because they are "supposed" to and then love to point out to me that their babies just wean themselves after a combination of super-strict nightweaning and being offered sippy cups of cow's milk on their first birthday. i was just blowing off a little steam about that kind of stuff here in the CLW forum since the thread was about feeling alone and not having support for choosing a different path. i've chosen not to nightwean (after my aforementioned sorry attempt) because it isn't right for my child, and it isn't right for me. i'm sorry if you felt offended. i certainly didn't mean to imply that a mama of a 3.5 year old couldn't have discussions with her nursling about respect and boundaries and needs about nursing or anything else. what else would i do all day if i thought that wasn't okay?

and six months ago, when dd would nurse pretty much every two hours around the clock, i thought she might be the exception to the rule - that she really might be the child who all the doubters warn you about - the child that would NEVER cut back, let alone wean herself. six short months ago. i'm still SHOCKED it's "working".
she nursed like a newborn (literally) until just past 3.5 and then she would go for three, four hours somedays, then the same # of hours but more frequent days and in the past month or so i would suddenly realize it had been since morning and it was now 4pm...SHOCK. complete shock.
i don't know if it will happen soon for you or not, but it will happen.
i swear it, and you'll be shocked.

Ok, I'm glad I took it the wrong way.
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#19 of 58 Old 01-05-2007, 11:45 PM
 
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Nope you are not alone...and one of my son's favorite places to nurse is in the bathroom : he bangs on the door until I let him in
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#20 of 58 Old 01-06-2007, 01:15 AM
 
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Sometimes I feel that way, too. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person I know irl who will mostly likely still be nursing a 5-year-old.

Brackin
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#21 of 58 Old 01-06-2007, 02:07 AM
 
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you are definitely not alone! I do find when I'm convinced I'm the "only one" I'm in a really low place in all sorts of ways... it's one of my flags that I must need more support in general in life.

as for telling Maya she can't nurse at night, I would certainly not say I'm "morally opposed" but I will say that it's very frustrating to not find any environment where I can talk freely about how sad it makes me to think of children (of any age) being told they can't nurse -- that is, if they are NOT fine with it, it makes me sad. If they hear that nah-nah is sleeping and are completely content and snuggle back to sleep, that sounds lovely to me for children old enough to be past the nursing-for-nutrition realm, but, any situation that involves a child being told they can't nurse when that's really what they are asking for *does* seem sad to me and it's really hard to find safe places to say that.

the challenges of *really* following our child's lead in nursing, especially for those of us with very very very active nursers, can feel so lonely. it's easy to slide in to judging myself.

honestly, I don't even go to La Leche anymore because I have found that the subject of telling our children they can't nurse is the most frequent topic. It's nutso to me, and I got tired of feeling outnumbered even in a LLL mtg.

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#22 of 58 Old 01-06-2007, 07:46 PM
 
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you moms are amazing!

Liv, SAHM of 3 kiddos 

 

 

 

 

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#23 of 58 Old 01-07-2007, 07:49 PM
 
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My son is almost 4. We have done no mom-led weaning, no restrictions, etc... and it all works out just fine. He may NIP if he likes (he decided not to anymore about 6 months ago), etc.

((((((((SUPPORT))))))))))))))))
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#24 of 58 Old 01-09-2007, 01:04 PM
 
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Yes, me, too. I often feel like I am the only one! DS will be 5 in May and I fully expect will still be nursing at that time.

I also tried night weaning when I was utterly exhausted around 15 months and it was hopeless. Much easier to just nurse. He has only just started in the last couple of weeks to have nights that he sleeps through. But he will still sometimes wake to nurse once (more when sick).

The only thing is I WOTH full time so that puts a huge restriction right there on the nursing. Things might be different if I was home with ds. I guess it's a combination of not wanting to restrict nursing because I feel like I am away from ds so much (he is home with dh), me getting a "break" (at least from nursing) while at work so I feel more able to give that to him when I am with him and also just that we haven't had too many issues where I felt I needed to make any rules. We've had difficult times, sure. I also have just sort of gently encouraged...it's not like I've never asked ds if he could "come off" and such. I have. But I haven't set any hard and fast rules y'know? Even with night nursing. It's all worked out fine up til now.

Allison, mom to ds born May 2002
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#25 of 58 Old 01-09-2007, 01:38 PM
 
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Yep, I've felt that way too. Neither nursling is night weaned. It has worked best for us to not set too many limits. I still nurse the 2 yr old at dinner if he needs it & I am trying to eat. My 2 yr old has no nursing limits at all, the 4 yr old has a little: doesn't nurse while I am eating, on the potty, or out to eat. We don't NIP the 4 yr old, but will nurse in a changing room if needed. I've also never tandem nursed in public (aside from LLL meetings.) I don't wear nursing shirts so it's hard to tandem discretely.

I'm Deborah, mama to Aidan, 11/02, Sean, 9/04 (my T21 SuperBoy), and Eleanor, 8/08.
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#26 of 58 Old 01-09-2007, 05:45 PM
 
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DD is 30 months and I haven't put any limits on her nursing. We just went through a CRAZY period of night nursing where she would fall asleep (nursing) at 9:30 p.m., wake to nurse at midnight, wake to nurse at 3:00, and then wake about every half hour to nurse from about 5:00a.m. - 7:00 a.m. and then would sleep until about 8:30 a.m. I've found that she does this when she's on the verge of some sort of mental or physical jump.

Sure enough, just under a week ago she started drawing representations of people and mandalas and her imagination kicked into super high gear. (One night she couldn't have her legs extend from the "milk chair" because the monsters might get them!)

Thankfully, as of this weekend, she's back down to just waking at midnight and once at 5:30 or 6:00 a.m. Now I have to retrain myself not to keep waking up at 3:00!

Unschooling mama to one 5 year old DD.
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#27 of 58 Old 01-09-2007, 08:48 PM
 
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DD is 5 years and 4 months.....hope to make it at least till 6!

Mary
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#28 of 58 Old 01-10-2007, 08:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmom View Post
We just went through a CRAZY period of night nursing where she would fall asleep (nursing) at 9:30 p.m., wake to nurse at midnight, wake to nurse at 3:00, and then wake about every half hour to nurse from about 5:00a.m. - 7:00 a.m. and then would sleep until about 8:30 a.m. I've found that she does this when she's on the verge of some sort of mental or physical jump.

Sure enough, just under a week ago she started drawing representations of people and mandalas and her imagination kicked into super high gear.
Us here, too! Wow. The new play she's been doing is INCREDIBLE. I mean, it's a mess because most of her games involve "packing up to go" somewhere. But, wow, wow, wow, what a burst of change in her imagination! And it was *exhausting* nursing right up to it...

--Heather
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#29 of 58 Old 01-12-2007, 07:01 PM
 
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You are not alone mama!!

*hugs*
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#30 of 58 Old 01-12-2007, 07:26 PM
 
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I didn't nightwean, either, although due to exhaustion I did influence the length of time we spent nursing at night so that comfort nursing sessions only lasted til he was back to sleep instead of for an hour, keeping me from sleeping deeply all that time by relentless twiddling.. lol

by the time he was ready to accept my encouragement to not nurse at night, he didn't need it, and he nightweaned at 22 months.

I implemented some boundaries between 2 and 3, not with the goal of reducing nursing sessions - I left that to him - but things like he had to wait if we were about to walk out the door, if I was involved in a task that I was about to complete shortly, if I was in a nursing aversion phase and needed a moment to mentally prepare for it... stuff like that.

Oh, and the three times he asked to nurse during the first two months of this pregnancy, I said no, I was too sore. Last week I said yes when he asked and he pretended to latch on (he can't do it anymore) for five seconds and hopped down. I don't think anybody realizes we still do that (he asks maybe once a month) and it never occurred to me to mention it. Except here.
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