Need advice from moms who had a midwife but didn't call - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 42 Old 02-24-2009, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Here's my story. I had not a single doubt about UCing this time around. But at 13 weeks I started pouring blood and cramping. I got so scared and the hospital wouldn't help us out (the doctor refused b/c I would not have an internal exam...he wouldn't even do an ultrasound). I ended up calling a midwife in town who knows me well but doesn't know of my plans to UC.

The midwife helped me out for free...she ordered an ultrasound to be done, checked the baby's heartbeat, and drew my blood. She told me (before u/s results) that it might be a low-lying placenta. I immediately felt like I should have a midwife for the birth if there were going to be complications, so I asked her and after several calls, she did manage to fit me in (she's usually booked immediately for births).

Now that the results are in and it's not low-lying placenta and she has assured me that the problem, now fixed, will not affect the birth at all. What a relief!

Now I am enjoying having a midwife just in case, but honestly I don't want one at the birth (unless I feel a need then). I can't explain this to her b/c she is VERY Anti-UC, as are all the midwives in my town.

Has anyone else had a midwife through the prenatals and then not called at the birth? How did that work out for you? I have thought of calling immediately after, but even then, I don't really want 3 non-family members in my house (she has an assistant and a nurse with her). But I do want to leave the option open in case anything else arises, b/c I'd rather have a homebirth with a midwife than a hospital birth with a doctor.

I do not mean to mislead the midwife, but honesty will get me nothing in this situation. She will not see me if she knows I am in favor of UCing. And I will always regret it if I call her just b/c I feel guilty, and thus don't have the birth I have pictured for so long.

Will insurance still pay her if she "doesn't arrive in time"?

Anyone have any good advice?

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#2 of 42 Old 02-24-2009, 06:23 PM
 
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: (aha! I've never gotten to do that before... )

I just wanted to get in here so I could read replies as this topic interests me. I don't understand doctors and some midwives (not all, as it sounds like there are some really good ones out there) and their "reasoning"!
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#3 of 42 Old 02-24-2009, 07:43 PM
 
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What you are doing makes total sense. I am right now needing to go to a nurse midwife who works with an OB because of some complications I am having. I will register at the hospital, etc, but if I feel at all good at the time of labor, I will stay home and UC. Then I'll just tell them after that it was too fast but thanks for the help during my pregnancy. Dishonest maybe but you're right. Honesty will get us nowhere.

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#4 of 42 Old 02-25-2009, 02:20 PM
 
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I don't think she will get her birth fee if you don't call her in time. Personally, I think lying to her is manipulative and unfair. I would tell her and let her decide if she wants to continue offering you care. If she drops you, she drops you. Midwives work extremely hard for little pay and the majority of their pay comes from the actual birth fee.

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#5 of 42 Old 02-25-2009, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think she will get her birth fee if you don't call her in time. Personally, I think lying to her is manipulative and unfair. I would tell her and let her decide if she wants to continue offering you care. If she drops you, she drops you. Midwives work extremely hard for little pay and the majority of their pay comes from the actual birth fee.
If she drops me, and I run into some problem, I am stuck having a MALE doctor at the hospital. Honestly I'd almost rather die. I have a history of abuse and the idea of a stranger, a male, peering into my parts, is unbearable. No female doctors are covered by my insurance.

I don't know about "hard work for little pay" when you charge $3,500 a birth. But I do know, and like I said in my last post, I would pay her if insurance did not.

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#6 of 42 Old 02-25-2009, 03:10 PM
 
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If she drops me, and I run into some problem, I am stuck having a MALE doctor at the hospital. Honestly I'd almost rather die. I have a history of abuse and the idea of a stranger, a male, peering into my parts, is unbearable. No female doctors are covered by my insurance.

I don't know about "hard work for little pay" when you charge $3,500 a birth. But I do know, and like I said in my last post, I would pay her if insurance did not.
I'm sorry about your past abuse, I've been there too and also am uncomfortable with male doctors. I did not see the part about paying her if insurance did not cover the fee. $3,500 is a very low amount to be paid; Midwives have so many expenses, insurance alone is really expensive. I know because I planned on becoming a HB MW at one time and talked in great detail with other HB MWs. MWs are not rich by any means.

I just feel that it is wrong to be dishonest in this type of situation because it is sneaky. I have a great amount of respect for Midwives and the work they do and I feel that the MW/client relationship needs to be an honest one in order for it to work. I'm sure she'd be able to tell that she was lied to after the fact and it would make for a really uncomfortable situation.

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#7 of 42 Old 02-25-2009, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I know what you mean. I too used to want to be a midwife. But I'm blown away by $3,500. I live in a small, poor town.

I used to live in Austin and delivered there...the midwives there were $2,000 just 5 years ago. There's such a big difference between 2k and 3.5k...

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#8 of 42 Old 02-25-2009, 03:59 PM
 
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I'm sorry about your past abuse, I've been there too and also am uncomfortable with male doctors. I did not see the part about paying her if insurance did not cover the fee. $3,500 is a very low amount to be paid; Midwives have so many expenses, insurance alone is really expensive. I know because I planned on becoming a HB MW at one time and talked in great detail with other HB MWs. MWs are not rich by any means.

I just feel that it is wrong to be dishonest in this type of situation because it is sneaky. I have a great amount of respect for Midwives and the work they do and I feel that the MW/client relationship needs to be an honest one in order for it to work. I'm sure she'd be able to tell that she was lied to after the fact and it would make for a really uncomfortable situation.
I completely agree, esp. with the bolded part.
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#9 of 42 Old 02-25-2009, 04:04 PM
 
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I know what you mean. I too used to want to be a midwife. But I'm blown away by $3,500. I live in a small, poor town.

I used to live in Austin and delivered there...the midwives there were $2,000 just 5 years ago. There's such a big difference between 2k and 3.5k...
I'm blown away by $2000! In my town, the midwives usually charge about that much, but the one that dh's family uses (and that we have as a back-up) charged $300 ten years ago, and has recently moved up to $600. I guess it depends on what they feel is fair. But it seems like most mw charge a lot because it's what OBs charge.

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#10 of 42 Old 02-25-2009, 04:10 PM
 
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Our first UC was a fluke of sorts. We had been visiting with our midwife throughout the pregnancy, we love her absolutely, she delivered my first hbac. She also lives three hours away, and so she trained dh on childbirth, not only typical stuff but also the atypical, JIC stuff. She gave us a copy of Emergency Childbirth.

When it came down to it, she would have had plenty of time to get here (even without using her paramedics license!) but the labor was so peaceful, even using the phone would have disrupted the atmosphere. Dh called her, I think, about four hours before baby was born, to let her know how things were going, and said he'd call her back, and it just never happened. He wound up calling her about an hour after baby was born (10pm/11pm?), and we all agreed that she would come the next day to do a well-child check.

So with the next baby, we called her and talked and she agreed to be our backup in case something was wrong, but with her being so far away, and gas prices so high, we only did three prenatals. And she came up and did a well-child check afterwards.

But if I had bleeding, I would definitely want someone else there. That's just me.

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#11 of 42 Old 02-25-2009, 04:24 PM
 
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The midwives I talked to (and the one we almost hired) require their fee IN CASH before the birth. Whether they are there or not is irrelevant. They bill your insurance after the birth, and reimburse you IF insurance coughs it up. They get paid either way, ~$3,000 (unless you refuse to pay ahead of time, in which case they won't be there for you) I assumed that is how midwives work.

Also, I was up front about it with the midwives we talked to... all of them except one said 'sorry, won't work with you'. The midwife we almost hired, I told her that I really wanted a UC but was considering hiring her because we were having some issues (an ovarian cyst that is painful mainly). She said it didn't matter to HER if she was at the birth or not (she gets the money either way), but she was incredibly negative about UC, saying it hardly ever works, etc. It just made me upset, and hubby and I went home and talked it over and then said 'we're not hiring her'. Now I will be going to an OB/GYN and a CNM for prenatal care and you better bet I won't whisper a word about my UC hopes.

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#12 of 42 Old 02-26-2009, 12:23 AM
 
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I am curious...how do you approach this with a midwife? I know most the midwives in my area are not UC friendly. I have been talking w/one midwife who is awesome and trusts birth, but have not discussed UC with her. She said she'd be willing to see me on a per visit basis right now, b/c we don't know if we are moving or not by the time I have the baby. I'd love to just tell her I'd like to have a few prenatals, but we are planning an UC!
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#13 of 42 Old 02-27-2009, 12:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Raene View Post
If she drops me, and I run into some problem, I am stuck having a MALE doctor at the hospital. Honestly I'd almost rather die. I have a history of abuse and the idea of a stranger, a male, peering into my parts, is unbearable. No female doctors are covered by my insurance.

I don't know about "hard work for little pay" when you charge $3,500 a birth. But I do know, and like I said in my last post, I would pay her if insurance did not.
In your first post you mentioned that this particular midwife went out of her way to help you and then fit you in as a client when she is usually booked full right away - for those reasons I cannot understand why you would feel that it would be okay to string her along and then hope that the insurance company pays her bill in the end if she doesn't make it for your birth. If she is that popular I would guess that she would not have had a problem finding another client to fill your place.
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#14 of 42 Old 02-27-2009, 12:16 AM
 
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In your first post you mentioned that this particular midwife went out of her way to help you and then fit you in as a client when she is usually booked full right away - for those reasons I cannot understand why you would feel that it would be okay to string her along and then hope that the insurance company pays her bill in the end if she doesn't make it for your birth. If she is that popular I would guess that she would not have had a problem finding another client to fill your place.
I agree. I think this is a horrible thing to do to the midwife.

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#15 of 42 Old 02-27-2009, 04:10 AM
 
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i would be honest with her and ask her if she will keep you if you pay extra for visits because she squeezed you in

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#16 of 42 Old 02-27-2009, 12:39 PM
 
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Honestly? I have a feeling this is going to earn me some thrown produce.

I don't think you have to tell her anything. You have stated that should you feel you need her you will call her. You are debating whether or not, in the event of a UC, you'll call her afterwards as well. It's not like you hired her knowing you never have any intention of using her. You have admitted the possibility is still open. Only difference between you and the average homebirther is you are planning with a different degree of certainty of UCing. Even if you knew 100% you were going to call her you could not guarentee 100% that she would make it. Your "be prepared for it" instance is just a more planned out instance. You've just made the concious decision (well almost ) as to whether or not to call her because you are comfy with either or in this case. Hope that makes sense.


So long as she gets paid I don't see why you have to divulge any extra info. It's not like she could guarentee making it to a birth for a non-UCing client. And if she didn't I doubt she'd flip her top. Is it sneaky not telling her upfront? No, I don't think so. You know she's not UC friendly so you're protecting that part of your birth space. You're not an idiot though. You know you hired her and you know your reasons why. You are still considering calling her in the even of needing her. Sounds like most homebirths to me. Just with a twist in the direction of being a confident UCer.

Ok, throw your produce. I have my salad shooter ready.

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#17 of 42 Old 02-27-2009, 12:56 PM
 
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If I were in your shoes, op, I'd call after and say "oops". And pay her. And get the postnatal stuff if you're so inclined. :

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#18 of 42 Old 02-27-2009, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Honestly? I have a feeling this is going to earn me some thrown produce.

I don't think you have to tell her anything. You have stated that should you feel you need her you will call her. You are debating whether or not, in the event of a UC, you'll call her afterwards as well. It's not like you hired her knowing you never have any intention of using her. You have admitted the possibility is still open. Only difference between you and the average homebirther is you are planning with a different degree of certainty of UCing. Even if you knew 100% you were going to call her you could not guarentee 100% that she would make it. Your "be prepared for it" instance is just a more planned out instance. You've just made the concious decision (well almost ) as to whether or not to call her because you are comfy with either or in this case. Hope that makes sense.


So long as she gets paid I don't see why you have to divulge any extra info. It's not like she could guarentee making it to a birth for a non-UCing client. And if she didn't I doubt she'd flip her top. Is it sneaky not telling her upfront? No, I don't think so. You know she's not UC friendly so you're protecting that part of your birth space. You're not an idiot though. You know you hired her and you know your reasons why. You are still considering calling her in the even of needing her. Sounds like most homebirths to me. Just with a twist in the direction of being a confident UCer.

Ok, throw your produce. I have my salad shooter ready.
I like this, thanks! I don't see why others are writing in saying that it's wrong...I mean, she gets paid, so what is so wrong about that? And yes, I may start labor and say "OMG I can't do this alone" and then I'll call her.

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#19 of 42 Old 02-27-2009, 03:50 PM
 
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If it helps, think of her as your backup. Every UCer should have a backup plan right? You happen to have a midwife (who you plan on paying regardless) instead of the hospital. Makes sense to me.

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#20 of 42 Old 02-27-2009, 05:59 PM
 
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Honestly? I have a feeling this is going to earn me some thrown produce.

I don't think you have to tell her anything. You have stated that should you feel you need her you will call her. You are debating whether or not, in the event of a UC, you'll call her afterwards as well. It's not like you hired her knowing you never have any intention of using her. You have admitted the possibility is still open. Only difference between you and the average homebirther is you are planning with a different degree of certainty of UCing. Even if you knew 100% you were going to call her you could not guarentee 100% that she would make it. Your "be prepared for it" instance is just a more planned out instance. You've just made the concious decision (well almost ) as to whether or not to call her because you are comfy with either or in this case. Hope that makes sense.


So long as she gets paid I don't see why you have to divulge any extra info. It's not like she could guarentee making it to a birth for a non-UCing client. And if she didn't I doubt she'd flip her top. Is it sneaky not telling her upfront? No, I don't think so. You know she's not UC friendly so you're protecting that part of your birth space. You're not an idiot though. You know you hired her and you know your reasons why. You are still considering calling her in the even of needing her. Sounds like most homebirths to me. Just with a twist in the direction of being a confident UCer.

Ok, throw your produce. I have my salad shooter ready.
I agree!!!
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#21 of 42 Old 02-27-2009, 10:21 PM
 
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Honestly? I have a feeling this is going to earn me some thrown produce.

I don't think you have to tell her anything. You have stated that should you feel you need her you will call her. You are debating whether or not, in the event of a UC, you'll call her afterwards as well. It's not like you hired her knowing you never have any intention of using her. You have admitted the possibility is still open. Only difference between you and the average homebirther is you are planning with a different degree of certainty of UCing. Even if you knew 100% you were going to call her you could not guarentee 100% that she would make it. Your "be prepared for it" instance is just a more planned out instance. You've just made the concious decision (well almost ) as to whether or not to call her because you are comfy with either or in this case. Hope that makes sense.

So long as she gets paid I don't see why you have to divulge any extra info. It's not like she could guarentee making it to a birth for a non-UCing client. And if she didn't I doubt she'd flip her top. Is it sneaky not telling her upfront? No, I don't think so. You know she's not UC friendly so you're protecting that part of your birth space. You're not an idiot though. You know you hired her and you know your reasons why. You are still considering calling her in the even of needing her. Sounds like most homebirths to me. Just with a twist in the direction of being a confident UCer.

Ok, throw your produce. I have my salad shooter ready.
Obviously I agree with this post.... since my previous posts have said similar things. LOL! I am just glad someone else spoke up

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#22 of 42 Old 02-27-2009, 10:52 PM
 
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I like this, thanks! I don't see why others are writing in saying that it's wrong...I mean, she gets paid, so what is so wrong about that? And yes, I may start labor and say "OMG I can't do this alone" and then I'll call her.
I said I thought it was wrong because you are knowingly lying to her. You've mentioned that if she knew you wanted a UC she would not be on board and she'd drop you, so you are misleading her for your own benefit. You've also mentioned that she is very busy and not only squeezed you in but got you a quick u/s when you needed one and the OB would not help you out. How can that be ok? Would you honestly want someone to treat you like this after you had helped them out? I think rationalizing it to make yourself feel better about being dishonest is just really wrong. As mothers we should be setting a good example for our children, and this isn't one.

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#23 of 42 Old 02-28-2009, 12:26 AM
 
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tried to delete this but can't figure out how. LOL!

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#24 of 42 Old 02-28-2009, 12:31 AM
 
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Hmmmmm... maybe we need to all just agree to disagree. Obviously one person's moral compass is not necessarily another. For instance, if she might call the midwife during birth and the midwife is being paid regardless, I see no problem. But others obviously feel very strongly that this is lying and totally inappropriate. All I can say to the OP is that I see your point and a lot of us don't think you are wrong and don't see a problem with it. Do what YOUR moral compass says to do and what you think is best for your family. To the others, I applaud your very strong beliefs, just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't respect it.

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#25 of 42 Old 02-28-2009, 02:01 AM
 
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my situation was a little different in that I was seeing a group of midwives (different one each visit, rotating between four that all work out of the same office and do not do homebirth but work with a birthcenter in a hospital). I started my care with them fully intending to use them again, they were my midwives when my son was born just two years before, but then halfway through my second pregnancy I discovered UC and became more and more interested in the concept and started to really consider it as an option.
I never told them of my "plan B" because I was still learning and researching it, and as time went on I realized that I was viewing them more as my "plan B" but was still using them for the care, the measuring, the listening to heartbeats, the pee sticks, the scale in their office, the reassurance of the position of the baby being head down, and just having another woman to talk to every few weeks who was truly interested in me and what was going on...etc. Meanwhile at home I was reading more and more birth stories and my confidence was growing that as long as nothing weird happened I could handle this on my own. I still had every intention of calling them if I wanted to, or needed too, no matter how close to birth I was.

The night my daughter was born I was mostly alone and I liked it just fine. I was aware of my body and my surroundings and I was comfortable. Anyone else being there, or having to get up and go somewhere was not what I wanted at any time.

A few days after she was born I had my next routine "prenatal" appointment, and so I went, and I brought her along. I unfortunately had to meet with a new midwife, the one I liked most was away at a birth, and she asked me questions that made me feel like I had done something wrong. She killed my buzz in the biggest way if you know what I mean. I guess a part of me was hoping that since they were midwives they would be excited by a UC, and proud of me, but she pretty much fired me, and made me feel like I had betrayed them, even though I didn't. I was just going with the flow, MY flow.

In retrospect I understand her reaction, from a business standpoint she can't exactly encourage or support UC, and maybe they missed out on a chunk of change because they didn't get to attend my birth. But I could have easlily been an "oops" too, my first labor was over 45 hours and I regretted going to the hospital so early. This labor was just under 5 and I didn't know the end was near until the head started coming out. I figured I still had a long way to go.


My advice to you is to go with your intuition. do what feels most right to you, what makes YOU happy. This is your birth, and if you want to have a midwife for your care I don't think you have any obligation to call her during labor unless you want to at that time. And who knows how you're gonna feel then? No one can predict these things...

6/9/2005 6/30/2007 10/17/2009 (Ebstein's Anomaly)
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#26 of 42 Old 02-28-2009, 02:00 PM
 
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I agree with salad shooter. Since when is this birth about the midwife or anyone else, for that matter?
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#27 of 42 Old 02-28-2009, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, the birth definitely isn't about the midwife, nor should it be. I'm not choosing to lie, but I'm left without an option. If people (midwives) were more open-minded I could be more honest.

I got a call from her a few days ago canceling my prenatal appt (someone was in labor) and she sounded SO exhausted. Apparently she told DH that she feels like she should cut down on births b/c they've been so long lately that she's just worn out. So I joked with him today that she might be relieved if we don't call...she can get some sleep!

Partnered mama with DD (01/04) and DD (08/09) and 8 critters, including a !
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#28 of 42 Old 03-01-2009, 12:24 AM
 
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You aren't lying though!

Quote:
–noun 1. the telling of lies; untruthfulness.

–adjective 2. telling or containing lies; deliberately untruthful; mendacious; false: a lying report.
(Per: Dictionary.com )

Now maybe this is a matter of semantics but you aren't lying. You are preparing yourself for one of two options....a homebirth with a midwife and homebirth without one. EVERY homebirthing mama has to prepare for that. The only difference here is you have a bias/leaning to one more than the other (and really that's not that much of a difference since I'd say most women using a midwife (not all) have a preference to using her!). Lying to her would be hiring her for prenatals and leading her on in regards to definitely calling her. As it is you have left your options open. Some might argue that you are lying per the second definition (deliberately untruthful) but again...you're not really. You have even admitted you might call her should you feel you need to. If anything, all we can "accuse" you of is being vauge and a bit of a waffler. I've never heard of that being a crime. Really though, I think you're fine.

Hmmm....maybe my moral compass needs re-calibrated.

Give more**Expect Less
There is no such thing as bad weather. Only bad clothing.
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#29 of 42 Old 03-01-2009, 11:17 PM
 
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Stuff like this is going to cause fewer and fewer midwives to attend homebirths. I really don't think it is fair or appropriate to put the midwife in this situation; so, basically you are saying you will only call her IF you have a complication, and then expect her to swoop in and save the day? That is just wrong.
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#30 of 42 Old 03-02-2009, 12:09 AM
 
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Wow, I'm not really understanding the problem here. A lot of UC-ers hire an OB or midwife as a back up from what I've read. And a lot don't. We all have to do what feels right for us. She is paying the midwife for her services (whether she comes to the birth or not).
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