Back from ultrasound - Mothering Forums
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Unassisted Childbirth > Back from ultrasound
LilMamiBella's Avatar LilMamiBella 09:11 PM 03-24-2009
I'll be 24 weeks on Friday. I went to my first ever ultrasound today. I was told that I'm measuring 15 days behind and that the nuchal fold is 6.2. They recommended an amnio and said that I have a 1 in 27 chance that this baby has down syndrome. I'm in good health, young, and I've never had any problems with any pregnancy. Never had a miscarriage either. With all three babies they've measured low. The doctor says its normal to measure low in the third trimester but not this early. All three of my kids have weighed 7 pounds at birth. I didn't want to tell Dh because I'm sure he'll freak out. Even if this baby was ds it wouldn't really change the way I birth (I don't think). Has anyone else gone through this?

purplemoon's Avatar purplemoon 09:20 PM 03-24-2009
Yes. I had chances of 1 in 20. I declined an amnio because I didn't care if the child would have issues or not and refused to accept the risk of an amnio (though pretty low indeed). Not to say I wasn't FREAKING OUT AND GOING CRAZY! until the end of the pregnancy. I did have them check for heart problems since that would be important to know beforehand.

The baby was healthy and normal in every way. Sometimes that isn't the case but your odds say most likely it will be. It will take some time to come to terms and if you feel you must know, do what you must do. I call the test the "freak a pregnant woman out" test but there are reasons to know, all of them personal.

Big hugs and well wishes to you and your pregnancy.
LilMamiBella's Avatar LilMamiBella 09:27 PM 03-24-2009
Everything else was perfect and they spent 2 hours on this ultrasound.They were going to do the amnio then but I just decided to come home instead. The doctor there wants me to come back in 3 weeks to see if the measurements are better.
BabyMae09's Avatar BabyMae09 11:02 PM 03-24-2009
Ugh, doctors! A false positive is WAY easier to get on that test than a false negative. In other words, they tell a woman more often that she's having a DS baby and are wrong than telling her she's NOT, when she really IS.

So I wouldn't worry. Although, do tell your hubby, he's there to support you after all
wbg's Avatar wbg 11:08 PM 03-24-2009


I do not know that it affects the way you birth, but I think being emotionally prepared for the possibility will help both you and your wonderful DH, if in fact they are correct.
Unfortunately the stress of the unknown is so exhausting and it is hard to just go with the flow. I think researching the outcomes and being prepared for it are a great starting point. After that, you can move forward and focus on the positive. Hopefully, and more than likely, you will have a positive outcome like Purplemoon. When my first was born one of the LOs in our mum and bub group was born with DS and they had absolutely no idea and were blindsided! They did great and he is such an awesome kid, but she always said she wished she had been able to prepare mentally to cope better.

All the best to you ad your family...
Multimomma's Avatar Multimomma 11:09 PM 03-24-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMamiBella View Post
I'll be 24 weeks on Friday. I went to my first ever ultrasound today. I was told that I'm measuring 15 days behind and that the nuchal fold is 6.2. They recommended an amnio and said that I have a 1 in 27 chance that this baby has down syndrome. I'm in good health, young, and I've never had any problems with any pregnancy. Never had a miscarriage either. With all three babies they've measured low. The doctor says its normal to measure low in the third trimester but not this early. All three of my kids have weighed 7 pounds at birth. I didn't want to tell Dh because I'm sure he'll freak out. Even if this baby was ds it wouldn't really change the way I birth (I don't think). Has anyone else gone through this?


I have not been through this. I do think that since kids with DS tend towards having heart problems, I would make sure that if you were homebirthing that anatomically everything looks fine (which you just had an US and they didn't find anything, right?)

You could contact your local DS support group and ask about birthing procedures. Our autism group works closely with the local group here, and overall they are awesome and supportive.
LilMamiBella's Avatar LilMamiBella 11:18 PM 03-24-2009
Yep no other problems and they spent lots of time looking over every little thing. The doctor says I have a 4% chance its ds. But when he says 1 in 27 it makes it sound worse.
TzippityDoulah's Avatar TzippityDoulah 11:49 PM 03-24-2009

augustacherri's Avatar augustacherri 12:56 AM 03-25-2009
I have not had any issues like this, but a relative did.

On her U/S, the baby had some possibly abnormalities, including only one cord vein. She was told via the same tests you talked about that her baby probably had a different kind of trisomy--not DS. This one they told her that her baby probably had is a kind that is fatal within the first year of life, so she was devastated. It took something like three weeks to get the amnio results back (because I guess they actually counted all the chromosome pairs or something), and all their stress and worry turned out to be nothing. Their daughter was born totally healthy and normal. But during those several weeks, they were incredibly upset and stressed.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific, I am not familiar with some of the more detailed diagnostic tests OBs use.

It is very possible, though, that it is a false positive as other posters have mentioned.
onelilguysmommy's Avatar onelilguysmommy 05:15 AM 03-25-2009
if the only thing they saw if they checked everything and for that long, im surprised they gave you such a high number. there are other markers that are supposed to present or suspected. im not saying your baby doesnt have it obviously but i cant believe they would say that over one measuerment and nothing else.

why were they doing the nuchal fold thing so late, too? weird....
LilMamiBella's Avatar LilMamiBella 01:00 PM 03-25-2009
I told Dh and he called our previous midwife for her opinion. She was the one that scheduled the ultrasound. She told us to have them fax the info to her and she'll look it over.
jeliphish's Avatar jeliphish 01:10 PM 03-25-2009
24 weeks is WAY too late to get an accurate measurement of the nuchal fold. Did they do bloodwork to go along with it?
I had a risk of 1 in 100 and we opted for the amnio because we HAD to know. Even though it wouldn't have affected anything we did, I am not a good "wait and see person". GL! I know what you are going through.
LilMamiBella's Avatar LilMamiBella 01:13 PM 03-25-2009
Nope no blood taken.
baileyann3's Avatar baileyann3 01:17 PM 03-25-2009
Yup, they gave dd 1 in 20 chance of having ds. I was freaked and knew I neededto know ahead to prepare. Also I couldn't go the rest of the preg worrying. So I had the amnio. It came back negative thankgod. And I could enjoy the rest of my preg stress free.
aris99's Avatar aris99 01:50 PM 03-25-2009
I'm so sorry you're in this position. I don't usually visit this forum but I saw your post. I am unfortunately one of those people who had a bunch of tests come back w/increased chances of this and that. My Dr. encouraged me to have an amnio. I did. They tell you about the risk of miscarriage directly caused by the needle BUT they never mentioned the risk of rupture of membranes otherwise known as Pprom. The rate of rupture is MUCH higher than you'd imagine and at 16-17 weeks I ruptured from an amnio. I was told I would miscarry w/in a month. I stayed pregnant and my dd was born at 26 weeks. She was perfect in every way...so much for all those test results. She suffered terribly from my decision to have an amnio though. Today she is a healthy 3 yo but she still has issues from her early birth.

If I could go back to before the amnio I would ask myself "what would I do with the results from the amnio?" Why do I need this amnio? Is my baby at risk for a lethal defect? Do any other tests I've had indicate 100% positive for some genetic defect? Even if there is risk would I abort?

I cannot answer these questions for anyone but I can ask you to be very sure you know what your answers are before you choose an amnio. The risks are higher than they let you know.

Good luck w/your decisions...they are never easy.
jeliphish's Avatar jeliphish 03:12 PM 03-25-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMamiBella View Post
Nope no blood taken.
There cant be a accurate measurement made with the NF alone. Especially since you are already 24 weeks. The NF measurment and the blood work together is what gives you a more accurate ratio. Even at this point, you are past the time I would think the blood work would be useful. First trimester Blood work measures HCG and PAPP-A, the quad screen measures other hormones in the blood but they both are able to screen risk for DS. You are past the window with both I believe to accurately measure these things. I would think that if you are comfortable enough to wait on birth, then do so- but I would suggest making sure everything with the baby is structurally sound before attempting a UC. If you need to know, I would opt for the amnio which is what I did. For me...the anxiety associated with not knowing was doing me more harm than than the amnio risk. If there is a good perinatologist in your area his rish should be higher than the 1/200 miscarrage rate that is stated on the internet. My perinatologist had been doing amnios for 20 years and his risk assessment was about 1 in 1400.
I'm sorry you are going through this-- not in your DDC but let me know if I can do anything to help.
fyrebloom's Avatar fyrebloom 03:56 PM 03-25-2009
The nuchal fold ultrasound MUST be done around 12 weeks because that is the only time the test is accurate. I would disregard the warnings as nothing more then the Dr obviously tring to scare you into an amnio. If they found other soft markers or something then there MIGHT be something up, but many normal babies show soft markers that disappear before birth. Doing the NF test like this and at the dates you are is irresponsable of the Dr and it's scare mongering. I wonder how much these Drs get paid for doing amnios . I wouldn't worry about the results as your Dr seems to rely a little too much on his/her magic wand and a bit to little on the facts.
phrogger's Avatar phrogger 02:42 AM 03-26-2009
I saw this, and while I don't post in this area, I wanted to respond to you. First *** hugs *** to you for what must seem like such a scary bit of news.


What about if you want to make the decision to HB or UC contingent on the baby's health, maybe the amnio can be done at say 36 weeks? Many women have amnio's then to check lung maturation, and then, if there was a PROM, there is far less risk to the baby, then say at 24 weeks. Just a thought.

In any case, as long as the heart and kidney's on the baby are looking really good, I don't know why a DS dx would make much of a difference at all on how you birth, but I am not the expert and I would check with DS parents and see what their experience has been.
LilMamiBella's Avatar LilMamiBella 01:06 PM 03-26-2009
I talked to the midwife and she wants me to come in. She wants to check over my other kids files and compare it to this baby and also wants to feel the baby. She recommends I keep the ultrasound appt. Although I'd like to know for sure, I don't think I really want to go through all the trouble of an amnio. I still plan on UCing unless something comes up where I can't.
AngelBee's Avatar AngelBee 01:12 PM 03-28-2009
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LilMamiBella's Avatar LilMamiBella 01:49 AM 04-01-2009
I went to the midwife today and she compared the kids' files with this baby. I measured low with each kid but I didn't start measuring low until I was 30 weeks. I'm almost 25 weeks. So if the baby has grown some by the time I get to the ultrasound then that could mean that my due date is wrong. But If I'm still measuring low week after week then that means I'll have to eventually be induced? What will it mean really? She also mentioned that down syndrome babies usually measure really high and also usually have problems with heart, kidneys,etc.
mellowyellowmama's Avatar mellowyellowmama 11:22 AM 04-01-2009
Why would you have to be induced?
gossamerwindweb's Avatar gossamerwindweb 12:34 PM 04-01-2009
ok, so if your baby is measuring low and DS babies measure high, what is the big deal? And why induce you early? ....off to ponder this as I am measuring HUGE.... or perhaps she means the fetal measurements, not the fundal height... need to read I guess
LilMamiBella's Avatar LilMamiBella 12:57 PM 04-01-2009
That was a question. I'm just wondering what will happen if I keep measuring low every week. I didn't say I wanted to be induced.
accountclosed3's Avatar accountclosed3 01:15 PM 04-01-2009
hugs.

i would look at this in this way:

1. if it is the case, then it's a good idea to get the names and numbers of specific community leaders. now, because i had no u/s, i didn't have this situation, but "just in case" i had numbers on hand for families with children with special needs so that i would have community support soon after the birth if needed. btw, my son does not have DS or any other disabilities.

2. as for the testing, the real question is to know the value of the test.

if you do feel that it is likely ds and you also are concerned about specific problems to the infant that might occur during birth or shortly after, then i would continue with medical care and tests to make sure that the baby's needs are met. if it is possible, for example, to have a prenatal heart surgery that could change everything for the baby, then i would ocntinue with testing, etc.

but, more often than not, this is purely for information and peace of mind. there isn't a lot they can do until the baby is born, and you basically have the choice of knowing and bearing a child with ds (or whatever else might have been diagnosed) or choosing to go a eugenics route. personally, i find the second option to be repugnant. and i'm not sure that i would want a more risky test "just to be sure" either way, when there isn't much that they could do about it anyway.

those are just my thoughts on these things. take them or leave them.

but either way, good luck with everything!
blissful_maia's Avatar blissful_maia 02:36 PM 04-01-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMamiBella View Post
I went to the midwife today and she compared the kids' files with this baby. I measured low with each kid but I didn't start measuring low until I was 30 weeks. I'm almost 25 weeks. So if the baby has grown some by the time I get to the ultrasound then that could mean that my due date is wrong. But If I'm still measuring low week after week then that means I'll have to eventually be induced? What will it mean really? She also mentioned that down syndrome babies usually measure really high and also usually have problems with heart, kidneys,etc.
Your midwife was wrong to tell you that DS babies usually measure large... DS babies are usually small for gestational age. Also, MOST babies with DS do not have heart or kidney problems. About 1/2 have heart problems, and while they are at higher risk for kidney/GI issues, it's certainly not the majority.

I agree with some pps that if you have a detailed ultrasound that rules out any major physical issues that make homebirth unsafe, there's not reason you shouldn't UC! I am sorry you are finding yourself in this situation... especially since a NT measurement is not very accurate at 23 weeks. I hope you get some answers and feel at peace while you birth.
gossamerwindweb's Avatar gossamerwindweb 03:55 PM 04-01-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMamiBella View Post
That was a question. I'm just wondering what will happen if I keep measuring low every week. I didn't say I wanted to be induced.
OK. I couldn't figure out why they would want to induce you early if the baby was measuring small.. I know they freak out about IUGR sometimes but in general I just really believe the baby is better off in the womb than outside it ... especially if there is something wrong with it. Anyhow... good luck! I have an ultrasound tomorrow at 23 weeks and if they tell me something is wrong with the NF, I will tell them it isn't accurate at this time of pregnancy anyhow.
BroodyWoodsgal's Avatar BroodyWoodsgal 05:00 PM 04-01-2009
mama, I'm sorry this is happening to you!

I hate to say it....but it sounds like you are really being messed over by a few people here. Your MW is not giving you accurate information and, unless I'm missing something, is talking about induction for absolutely no reason at all...which, in my eyes, makes her highly suspect. Your doctor is an idiot. Sorry for the strong language...but how DARE he, us a NF test at 24weeks and try to pass it off as ANYTHING. I don't know what kind of u/s tech could perform that scan at 24weeks and keep a straight face!! It's ridiculous!

I say, as long as the major systems/organs check out....completely disregard everything this "doctor" is saying. There is always a chance that a woman will deliver a child who has DS....but as long as there is nothing wrong with the baby's heart, etc....I would much rather deliver a DS baby at home, than deliver by freakin' induction in a hospital setting.

You've got to follow your gut....but your gut sounds confused...because nothing your CPs are saying adds up. In cases like these, we must arm ourselves with information...read read read....and ASK FOR A SECOND OPINION - I would say, your MW is not a good second opinion as, obviously, she is trying to pass off ridiculousness as information....and has gone from "send met he file, let me take a look" to "Yeah, we'll probably have to induce if s/he keeps measureing small" - WHAT?

Oh babe....maybe it's the hormones, but your situation has my blood pressure up. Listen to your heart, read and ask or another opinion.

GL! KUP!
Lousli's Avatar Lousli 05:09 PM 04-01-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by gossamerwindweb View Post
OK. I couldn't figure out why they would want to induce you early if the baby was measuring small.. I know they freak out about IUGR sometimes but in general I just really believe the baby is better off in the womb than outside it ... especially if there is something wrong with it.
I have to disagree with this. IUGR doesn't just mean a baby that is small or has a minor problem. If it is true IUGR there is a reason behind it. Sometimes the placenta is completely deteriorating, for example. I agree that often doctors and midwives freak out over something that is unwarranted, a couple of small measurements are probably nothing to worry about.

The people I know who were induced for IUGR were not induced without good reason. Most doctors don't want to bring a baby that is not only small, but many weeks premature into the world unless they have good cause to think the baby needs it. Usually cases of IUGR are monitored very closely with many measurements and ultrasounds, they check the cord blood flow and the placenta as well as the baby's growth. NST's are performed as well. If the baby is born at 34 or 36 weeks and is the size of a 28 weeker, there was something going on that wasn't allowing that baby to develop properly in utero.
blissful_maia's Avatar blissful_maia 06:37 PM 04-01-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by gossamerwindweb View Post
OK. I couldn't figure out why they would want to induce you early if the baby was measuring small.. I know they freak out about IUGR sometimes but in general I just really believe the baby is better off in the womb than outside it ... especially if there is something wrong with it.
???

I agree with Lousli, true IUGR is a perfect example of when a baby is NOT better of in the womb than inside it.... they're not getting the nourishment they need to grow and be healthy.
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