vitamin k shot? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-07-2009, 04:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Serenyd View Post
We're doing the oral vitamin k. I didn't w/ Caden and all was fine but I think it's worth the $26 dollars I spent to have that small peace of mind that we've covered our bases. Just my

ordered mine here

birth with love has drops and info on dosing
Have you used their Vit K drops before?

First-time mama due on Dec 3rd 2009!
Update: Baby girl born Nov 19th!
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Old 11-08-2009, 12:47 PM
 
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I have. That's where my midwife used to get it and used it on 1 or 2 of my babies, (I opted out after that) and it's where I get it now if it's requested of me by clients. I've never had a problem with it and have always been happy with that company.
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:40 PM
 
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All the people who will, or have done oral K- do you have any info on it disrupting the virgin gut or not?

Mom of 3 sons and one daughter
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:31 PM
 
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Any info about the Oral Vit. K?

This is an interesting discussion. It's amazing how many details there are to procedures that are done so routinely, and everywhere. I would have never thought of all these questions?

Thanks again.

Mom to 4 Boys
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Old 11-17-2009, 12:51 PM
 
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[QUOTE=LaffNowCryLater;14616860]

"Biliary atresia (my anatomy scan did not show this birth defect)"

I'm not sure if my comment is particularly helpful or relevant to the larger question being asked here but an anatomy scan done during pregnancy will not show any evidence of biliary atresia, the vast majority of the time. My son has biliary atresia and all my prenatal scans showed no problems with his liver. The perinatal form of biliary atresia accounts for about 90% of biliary atresia cases. Symptoms typically don't become evident until 2-8 weeks of life - which is the same period of time that infants with Vitamin K deficiency are at high risk for a late VKDB (bleeds).

I believe the reason that breastfeeding is listed as a risk factor is because many babies with late VKDB have an underlying/undiagnosed liver disease. Due to the liver disease, they are unable to easily absorb vitamins, including Vitamin K (and fat). Since breastmilk is not high in Vitamin K, this can exacerbate the problem with the vitamin K deficiency in these particular babies and increases the risk of a late bleed. For healthy breastfed babies who do not have liver disease, this is not an issue.

So, what I'm trying to say is that you really won't know if your child has biliary atresia or a number of other liver diseases (like Alpha 1 or Alagille Syndrome) at birth and in the early weeks after. Some form of vitamin K supplementation during this time can help reduce your child's risk of a brain bleed if they happen to have one of these rare diseases. I'm not sure if this is really helpful to anyone making a decision about Vitamin K but I just wanted to mention our experience with liver disease.

Also, this is a link to an article on Vitamin K supplementation, breastfeeding, and liver disease - and it mentions some stuff about oral vitamin k doses:

igitur-archive.library.uu.nl/dissertations/2009-0414-200435/hasselt.pdf
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Old 11-22-2009, 04:41 AM
 
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I have three kids, none have had it.
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:25 PM
 
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[QUOTE=lville71;14685072]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaffNowCryLater View Post

"Biliary atresia (my anatomy scan did not show this birth defect)"

I'm not sure if my comment is particularly helpful or relevant to the larger question being asked here but an anatomy scan done during pregnancy will not show any evidence of biliary atresia, the vast majority of the time. My son has biliary atresia and all my prenatal scans showed no problems with his liver. The perinatal form of biliary atresia accounts for about 90% of biliary atresia cases. Symptoms typically don't become evident until 2-8 weeks of life - which is the same period of time that infants with Vitamin K deficiency are at high risk for a late VKDB (bleeds).

I believe the reason that breastfeeding is listed as a risk factor is because many babies with late VKDB have an underlying/undiagnosed liver disease. Due to the liver disease, they are unable to easily absorb vitamins, including Vitamin K (and fat). Since breastmilk is not high in Vitamin K, this can exacerbate the problem with the vitamin K deficiency in these particular babies and increases the risk of a late bleed. For healthy breastfed babies who do not have liver disease, this is not an issue.

So, what I'm trying to say is that you really won't know if your child has biliary atresia or a number of other liver diseases (like Alpha 1 or Alagille Syndrome) at birth and in the early weeks after. Some form of vitamin K supplementation during this time can help reduce your child's risk of a brain bleed if they happen to have one of these rare diseases. I'm not sure if this is really helpful to anyone making a decision about Vitamin K but I just wanted to mention our experience with liver disease.

Also, this is a link to an article on Vitamin K supplementation, breastfeeding, and liver disease - and it mentions some stuff about oral vitamin k doses:

igitur-archive.library.uu.nl/dissertations/2009-0414-200435/hasselt.pdf
Thanks for the info, do you know if this is something genetic or something that tends to happen more to certain ethnicities, etc?

Mom of 3 sons and one daughter
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Old 11-28-2009, 07:30 PM
 
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subbing/bumping

Struggling over this decision, which is strange, because with my first I had him get the shot without question, with my second he never received any newborn interventions and I didn't worry about it one bit, and now with my third I'm re-examining everything and don't know what to do!

I talked to my mw's about it and they seem to lean in favor of the shot, thinking that is has a very low probability of risks or negative effects, with possible benefit. What risks are there in doing the shot, even if it's not necessary?

They didn't seem in favor of the oral drops, saying that it's very bitter and could disrupt breastfeeding and the mouth is a very sensitive organ to be messing with right after birth. I tend to agree.

My overall approach with birth and health in general, is to default to the way our bodies were designed as the safest way to go. So if babies are made to start out with low levels of Vit K, and breastmilk is low in Vit K, it seems to me there is a reason for that and there is a need for it to be low for a period of time, and that it could be harmful to mess up what nature intended and overdose them with a vitamin they don't need!

But I still worry that my baby could be the one in whatever-thousand that has a rare condition that we didn't provide an easily available remedy for and I'll never forgive myself!
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Old 11-29-2009, 01:08 AM
 
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[QUOTE=LaffNowCryLater;14728396]
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Originally Posted by lville71 View Post

Thanks for the info, do you know if this is something genetic or something that tends to happen more to certain ethnicities, etc?

Hi! Biliary atresia is more common among people of Asian and African descent. It is also slightly more common in girls. But my son is mostly of European descent - it's my understanding that the chances of him getting it, based on ethnicity & gender, was 1 in 30,000. The overall rate of biliary atresia is 1 in 15,000 births. Hope that helps!
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:47 AM
 
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Could a couple take the Vit K drops to the hospital for the baby? Do you think a hospital would let them do that?

My brother was asking about this and since I didn't research this before my son was born, I thought I'd ask here.

What exactly is the product you bought? I couldn't tell from the listing which product they'd need.
Thanks
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Old 11-29-2009, 03:19 PM
 
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A newborns gut flora is sterile. This link talks about formula vs breastfed but introducing anything other than breastmilk changes the flora.

http://www.drjaygordon.com/developme...supplement.asp

Wife to DH, Mom to my Intact Boys DS1: Born 02 Pain Med Free Hospital Birth, BF'ed for 9 Months, Partially Vax'd DS2: Born 06 via UC, BF'ed 3 years 10 months, and UnVax'd
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:48 PM
 
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everything effects mucous membrane flora- babies are not meant to remain sterile - and look where they come out and the common way they face nose toward anus- there are studies that show that gut flora is altered by where and how babies are born- no surprise babies who are born c-section have got the most pathologic flora, babies born at home and breastfed the BEST flora- what you eat or don't eat what flora you and your family are inoculated with is going to have an effect on baby's flora-
for long term health of yourself and your baby(ies) eating more green veggies everyday is the best plan- a vitamin K supplement or shot is just short term insurance- at a recent midwifery regional conference I asked the mws ,"who has seen babies with signs or symptoms of vitamin K deficency?" nearly all of the midwives present had -
Breastfeeding is a perfect system- and respecting that , paying attention to how it functions is key- if moms eat or supplement vitamin K then breastmilk levels increase , and they not only increase in K1 but also those other mks 4,7.. . So the flora produced vitamin Ks are increased with moms intake of vitamin K foods (bacteria break down remnants of vt K in the foods you eat ) what do we know about breastmilk- it tightly regulates certain things like the water content doesn't fluctuate with you drinking water- but essential fatty acid levels do fluctuate- because it is essential that you eat them, we can't fabricate them- the same is true for vitamin K your breastmilk level fluctuates with what you eat- what we do not know and has not been studied is the ceiling when does the increase diminish or stop.
My own homeborn and UC babies did not get supplemental vitamin K and I had been a midwife for years before I really started researching this. What got my attention was about 10-12 years ago 2 homeborn babies that died from vitamin K deficency, in the wake of that there were several mws of my aquaintance who talked about their "near miss" client's babies with brusing, intestinal bleeds, prolonged bleeding from the cord site, babies who got sick or were on antibiotics postpartum they gave oral vitamin K days-weeks after the birth for these symptoms- something was wrong here what I was hearing about and seeing was a far higher rate than the rare numbers quoted. What I found about that time was an explosion in vitamin K research, unfortunately not so much breastmilk and vitamin K. vitamin K seems to have some protective effects against osteoporosis and atherosclerosis so, there was funding coming from an aging baby-boomer population here and in Japan- of course it is not a stand alone thing we all need sunlight and exercise and other foods but from cradle to the grave vitamin K is important to women and our children- there are a few studies on mother/baby nursing pairs but not enough -
maybe one of the simplest things to do if you are not a gardener is to subscribe to a CSA keeping up with the greens/veggies you get weekly will make an impact on you and your family's vitamin K intake - I also think that oral vitamin K may not have a great deal of impact as far as changing flora negatively ,the study that showed best flora for born at home babies is in a country that gives babies oral vitamin K-
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