Need ALL info on breech homebirths, unassisted - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 12:27 AM
 
annekh23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by abimommy View Post
Your pregnancy is not low risk. Your pregnancy is high-risk.
I agree, though the problem here is, we really have no clue what your issues are that make c-section a 50/50 chance of death, I've looked through your previous posts and haven't found anything, obviously it's your choice if you wish to keep them private, but it makes it a tricky discussion topic. Personally, I'm really struggling to think of medical conditions that would make a c-section so risky, yet not increase the risk in any type of vaginal birth.

The other thing I'm finding really hard to believe is that if your doctor really thought that you had a 50/50 chance of death in a c-section that s/he still wouldn't try anything to sort things out. Maybe I'm being naive, but if I were a doctor and I had a patient that I thought had a 50/50 chance of dying in surgery but there was another option, but it wasn't usually allowed, I'd be picking up the phone and explaining to the hospital why this time the procedure needs to be allowed.

My other thought is have you spoken with an anesthesiologist, a good proportion of medical problems become their problems in surgery and I don't think the average anesthesiologist is going to be happy dealing with an elective procedure with those kind of risks.

So I'm wondering here if there is some disagreement between you and the doctor what the risks actually are and if there is scope for resolution there.

Finally, if it really is as clear cut as 50/50 chance of dieing in surgery, but absolutely no way they will allow you a non surgical birth, then I'd be contacting every official, charity, press etc I could think of, put a press release out to all the local papers, contact the head of the hospital, contact your local and national government representatives, basically raise hell, as if everything you've said is true, then this is a completely ridiculous and dangerous consequence of the health system and you need to let the world know about that and get everyone on your side so you don't end up dead.

Anne, Christian mummy to Nathanael 05/28/03, Ada 06/10/05, Grace 05/24/09
annekh23 is offline  
#32 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 01:46 AM
 
LAWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know you are in California, but maybe if you post a specific location someone here will know of a breech friendly OB. If you have already posted it I apologize, I don't recall seeing it. Seems worth a shot at this point.

I know of a couple in Los Angeles, two of them are at Good Samaritan in downtown LA. I just can't imagine that any breech trained doctor would force a c-section on you given your particular risk factors. Why isn't the back up OB petitioning the hospital on your behalf for an exception? Is your midwife still trying to help you find someone to attend? This is crazy.
LAWoman is offline  
#33 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 02:32 AM
 
prescottchels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Swimming in essential oils
Posts: 1,658
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Have you seen this site?
http://spinningbabies.com/

I've seen a lot of UC folks reference it over the years.

ETA:The OP is looking for resources on how to birth a breech baby folks, NOT your opinions on where and w/whom she should do it, unless of course you can tell her names of OB's or MW's that will assist in a vaginal birth in her area

All the best to you and baby!!

Former Nanny Extraordinaire, looking forward to being a Mama! treehugger.gif I love Organizing & being a Health & Wellness Coach eat.gif & I'm crunchy granola as long as it's organic and certified gluten free. GF since March '08 yummy.gif. Willoughby Nov '11  cat.gif TTC #1-still, again, some more, & seriously pondering adoption. 
prescottchels is online now  
#34 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 09:19 AM
 
flapjack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England, easily locatable by Google
Posts: 13,642
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelle C. View Post


So I need ALL the RELIABLE info I can get on this. Please help!!
Prescottchels, the OP asked for reliable information. The reliable information on the safety of UC breech hasn't been compiled by anyone yet. What we do know is that in conventional medical settings, the risks of breech vaginal delivery vary greatly according to the practitioner and the position of the baby. It seems reasonable to bear these facts in mind when considering UC.

Helen mum to five and mistress of mess and mayhem, making merry and mischief til the sun goes down.
flapjack is offline  
#35 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 12:21 PM
 
finn'smama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: home...
Posts: 2,198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by annekh23 View Post

The other thing I'm finding really hard to believe is that if your doctor really thought that you had a 50/50 chance of death in a c-section that s/he still wouldn't try anything to sort things out. Maybe I'm being naive, but if I were a doctor and I had a patient that I thought had a 50/50 chance of dying in surgery but there was another option, but it wasn't usually allowed, I'd be picking up the phone and explaining to the hospital why this time the procedure needs to be allowed.

.
There are practitioners out there who are experienced in delivering breech babies and I can't imagine a doctor not helping you find someone if your chances of death in a c-section are so great. I would make a lot of noise about that if I were you and there is no way I would UC in your situation.

Mama to Finn (04/05) Arlo (04/07) and Henry (04/10)
finn'smama is offline  
#36 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 01:32 PM
 
Cuddlebaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 863
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
was going to suggest spinning babies and also that you find some breech homebirth videos. Laura Shanley had a footling breech, no problems. lots of moms do. you only hear about the problems.

wife since 1992; mom to: J 7-95; H 5-98; C 2-03; S 4-05; Micah Zachary born still UC 4-08; UM 9-08; due June 2010
Cuddlebaby is offline  
#37 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 01:34 PM
 
Cuddlebaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 863
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/...ys/willie.html

wife since 1992; mom to: J 7-95; H 5-98; C 2-03; S 4-05; Micah Zachary born still UC 4-08; UM 9-08; due June 2010
Cuddlebaby is offline  
#38 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 01:44 PM
 
jeliphish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuddlebaby View Post
Yes...this is one case of an uncomplicated UC, but the OP has a lot more high risk stuff going on, and painting the picture for her that UC will be totally fine as long as she "trusts her body and her baby" is negligent. The only reason she has started gathering info on UC is because she has felt backed into a corner.

Blessed with two BEAUTIFUL little girls: Kylie (09/06) and Maggie (4/09) :
jeliphish is offline  
#39 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 01:45 PM
 
Cuddlebaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 863
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD5939e5PZ8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vIRTpPOgVw
this mom has a setate uterus....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-o7DKnxOg8
ooooo, new videos from Ina May...haven't watched this yet...

wife since 1992; mom to: J 7-95; H 5-98; C 2-03; S 4-05; Micah Zachary born still UC 4-08; UM 9-08; due June 2010
Cuddlebaby is offline  
#40 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 01:46 PM
 
jeliphish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If the life/death risk is truly 50/50 for the OP then there HAS TO BE a doctor who will deliver a breech vaginally. There is no way they would risk a C/S if the risk is truly that high.

Blessed with two BEAUTIFUL little girls: Kylie (09/06) and Maggie (4/09) :
jeliphish is offline  
#41 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 02:40 PM
 
prescottchels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Swimming in essential oils
Posts: 1,658
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by flapjack View Post
Prescottchels, the OP asked for reliable information. The reliable information on the safety of UC breech hasn't been compiled by anyone yet. What we do know is that in conventional medical settings, the risks of breech vaginal delivery vary greatly according to the practitioner and the position of the baby. It seems reasonable to bear these facts in mind when considering UC.
Of course, AND it seems as though there has been plenty of conversation about the risks involved for her no matter where/how she delivers AND not a lot of resources shared, until today, on how exactly to deliver a breech baby should she ultimately decide to UC.
Personally, I think we'd be doing the OP a disservice in not helping her educate herself on all the ins and outs of breech delivery. Even if she ends up delivering in the hospital it's great information to have in mind.

That being said I have a scanned copy of Gregory White's Emergency Childbirth book if anyone wants a copy I'd be happy to email it as an attachment. Just shoot me a PM. I also have some other emergency childbirth fact sheets, including breech, saved as jpg's that I'd be happy to share as well.

Former Nanny Extraordinaire, looking forward to being a Mama! treehugger.gif I love Organizing & being a Health & Wellness Coach eat.gif & I'm crunchy granola as long as it's organic and certified gluten free. GF since March '08 yummy.gif. Willoughby Nov '11  cat.gif TTC #1-still, again, some more, & seriously pondering adoption. 
prescottchels is online now  
#42 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 03:07 PM
 
midwifemom3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
And just a random c-section for breech video. I thought it was sort of strange/weird the amount of pressure being put on the baby, the pushing and pulling, the lapse of time from the baby being born to the umbilicus until the head was born, and how they had to lift the baby by the feet to help the head flex.

Lifting up by the feet is how midwives and physicians are taught to deliver the head to prevent over extension of the neck. I have a friend whose baby died in a breach birth from a broken neck, and the risk is very real. The videos above are beautiful, but posted because the outcome is good. What is very important to remember in these pictures is that the baby never rotated to OP, if a breach rotates OP in a vaginal birth the head will never deliver.Its impossible, which is why the attendant hold the feet and pulls up. If these babies had tried to rotate OP you would of seen them do the same maneuver to prevent rotation. Delivery is hands off until you see the back of the babies neck, and it has to stay OA to deliver.
midwifemom3 is offline  
#43 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 04:27 PM
 
MsBlack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SE MO
Posts: 3,609
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Noelle, if you're still here--sorry that this thread has in some ways gone so far off course from your original request. Know that some of us are praying for you and your baby--for you to know just what is the best possible thing for you both....something that from this distance, and without similar experience of our own, we couldn't possibly know for you.
MsBlack is offline  
#44 of 52 Old 11-09-2009, 07:25 PM
 
flapjack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England, easily locatable by Google
Posts: 13,642
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwifemom3 View Post
And just a random c-section for breech video. I thought it was sort of strange/weird the amount of pressure being put on the baby, the pushing and pulling, the lapse of time from the baby being born to the umbilicus until the head was born, and how they had to lift the baby by the feet to help the head flex.

Lifting up by the feet is how midwives and physicians are taught to deliver the head to prevent over extension of the neck. I have a friend whose baby died in a breach birth from a broken neck, and the risk is very real. The videos above are beautiful, but posted because the outcome is good. What is very important to remember in these pictures is that the baby never rotated to OP, if a breach rotates OP in a vaginal birth the head will never deliver.Its impossible, which is why the attendant hold the feet and pulls up. If these babies had tried to rotate OP you would of seen them do the same maneuver to prevent rotation. Delivery is hands off until you see the back of the babies neck, and it has to stay OA to deliver.
Thanks for this. I've been fiddling with a doll and a plastic pelvis, and I'd never really envisioned the sheer amount of strain on baby's neck until you posted this.

Helen mum to five and mistress of mess and mayhem, making merry and mischief til the sun goes down.
flapjack is offline  
#45 of 52 Old 11-10-2009, 12:47 AM
 
readytobedone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: not dissertating
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by annekh23 View Post
I agree, though the problem here is, we really have no clue what your issues are that make c-section a 50/50 chance of death, I've looked through your previous posts and haven't found anything, obviously it's your choice if you wish to keep them private, but it makes it a tricky discussion topic. Personally, I'm really struggling to think of medical conditions that would make a c-section so risky, yet not increase the risk in any type of vaginal birth.

The other thing I'm finding really hard to believe is that if your doctor really thought that you had a 50/50 chance of death in a c-section that s/he still wouldn't try anything to sort things out. Maybe I'm being naive, but if I were a doctor and I had a patient that I thought had a 50/50 chance of dying in surgery but there was another option, but it wasn't usually allowed, I'd be picking up the phone and explaining to the hospital why this time the procedure needs to be allowed.
i agree with all of this. one thing: OP has said elsewhere that she has lots of adhesions and her bowel is in front of her uterus. i tried contacting the OP and telling her my DD's birth story:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=readytobedone

i was in a similar situation, and my OB didn't even know it going into the c-section, and...well, i am alive and well and fully healed.

the 50% thing just sounds crazy to me. i'm wondering if one (unreliable) person told her this and she's taken it as gospel.

dissertating wife of Boo, mama of one "mookie" lovin' 2 year old girl! intactlact:: CTA until 7/10 FF 1501dc
readytobedone is offline  
#46 of 52 Old 11-10-2009, 01:17 AM
 
JessicaS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 43,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prescottchels View Post

ETA:The OP is looking for resources on how to birth a breech baby folks, NOT your opinions on where and w/whom she should do it, unless of course you can tell her names of OB's or MW's that will assist in a vaginal birth in her area
If there is a situation where people are concerned, they can certainly say so as long as they stay within the User Agreement.

Not all those who wander are lost 
JessicaS is offline  
#47 of 52 Old 11-11-2009, 10:49 PM
 
rhiandmoi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose CA
Posts: 1,632
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Have you talked to a high risk OB?
rhiandmoi is offline  
#48 of 52 Old 11-12-2009, 11:26 AM
 
pants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakenbake View Post
i woid be Very worried to attempt ahome uc breech more so with your first
yeah I kinda agree. But i'd go into spontaneous labor and labor at home until I was 8 CM dialiated and head to the hossy. (but it also depends on how far from the hossy you are).

Could you find and underground MW to assist?

Me-Brenda (wife as of 10/9/2005 and SAHM), DH-Rudy, DS-Isaiah 3/2009, DS-Micah 5/2011. We are a BF, Baby wearing, non-vacc, future homeschooling, homebirthing , traditional, family. The center of our home is Christ .

pants is offline  
#49 of 52 Old 11-12-2009, 12:14 PM
 
DocsNemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: I make milk..whats your superpower?
Posts: 3,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
For me, the UC with a breech and first baby wouldn't be an issue. I'd take that over a cesarean for no reason other than breech anyway. But if there are other issues (I don't know all of the other issues) that would pose a risk in UC, then I'd be trying something else. Again, I don't know all of the issues and how risky they make a vaginal delivery, so I can't give much advice there-I guess that is something you have to think about yourself.

I'd say show up at the hospital ready to push and then refuse a cesarean, but in some ways this can be even riskier than UC-if you get a doctor who has no clue how to do vaginal breech delivery and then gets all hands on and causes problems. You have no idea who you could end up with and if they have ANY experience/knowledge of breech. That is scary to me.

If a cesarean is indeed that risky, I can't imagine not being able to find a doctor somewhere to do a vaginal breech. I'd be calling hospitals as well, asking to speak to the director or someone else and explaining the situation. Its entirely possible that if you convince the hospital that a cesarean is a huge risk, that they'll say they agree and that would give an OB the ability to deliver without risking themselves to the same extent. (Of course, they still fear lawsuit, so it'll still be hard to find one, but at least without the hospital putting them at risk as well it'll be easier)

Cari-mama to Eriq, Lile, Paikea, Kaidyn, and Mieke is here!! 2/9/10
DocsNemesis is offline  
#50 of 52 Old 11-12-2009, 04:05 PM
 
Tizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,087
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I cannot imagine any hospital being willing to push a C/S with a 50% chance of survival, if another option was clearly safer. I would suggest shopping around, if the versions did not work. Update when you can OP, you're in my thoughts!

DH and I - totally winging life with our four children, DS1 (6.5yrs), DS2 (5yrs), DD (3yrs) and DS3 (1)!

Tizzy is offline  
#51 of 52 Old 11-12-2009, 05:16 PM
 
rhiandmoi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose CA
Posts: 1,632
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
#1 I would question whatever information source gave you the 50/50 chances. The only information I can see about bowel perforation being even close to such a poor risk, is in spontaneous bowel perforation of low birth weight neonates. Unless you also have clotting issues, or know you have a poorly placed artery, what is leading you to think you have such a high risk of a poor outcome with surgery?

#2 I would not consider breech vaginal delivery of such a complicated case without consulting with an actual medical professional about the situation. And not just calling around to see if you can find someone to do a vag breech. Find someone to actually consult on your case. There are a lot of things going on with your pregnancy that can not be addressed by strangers on the internet. You need to see a professional. Preferrably a high risk OB. Like now. The more time that they have to work on a plan, the better.
rhiandmoi is offline  
#52 of 52 Old 11-12-2009, 09:31 PM
 
georgia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tl;dr
Posts: 25,918
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi, I am closing this thread to new posts. Sorry for the inconvenience. Those seeking further information about breech UC are invited to start a new thread. Thanks!

I have retired from administration work, so if you have a question about anything MDC-related, please contact Cynthia Mosher. Thanks!
 
georgia is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off