Need ALL info on breech homebirths, unassisted - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-04-2009, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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She's back in breech, her butt firmly in my pelvis now. Version attempt #1 failed. #2 is Friday, #3 is Monday. Since we're gown to the wire, if she doesn't flip by then, we have to look definitely at other options. Breech delivery if a miracle happens and a hospital will allow it (yeah, good luck on that one), or a c-section. Or unassisted at home. Frankly I feel best about a breech delivery unassisted at home right now. It's better than transverse. Stupid state midwife licensing laws still won't allow our mw to be present. Insane that any state would rather someone do it alone than to have a professional there.

So I need ALL the RELIABLE info I can get on this. Please help!!
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:57 PM
 
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I would check out the UC board as well and the bornfree site. I don't have personal experience myself. Good Luck to you!

Happily Married to my : 11 yrs- Mama to wild-eyed monkey boy 7-04, fiery little girl 4-07, and the happy smiley baby that sleeps 11-09!
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:04 PM
 
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I have been thinking about you mama! I would check the UC and birth and beyond board I bet they will have more information!

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Old 11-04-2009, 08:23 PM
 
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Any chance you could find an "underground" midwife to attend?

Kelly - Wife to a wonderful man and Mom to a c-sect boy (3/3/05), hospital vbac.gif girl (12/20/07), h20homebirth.gif girl (11/4/09), expecting #4 EDD 7/15/13. We homeschool.gif
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:27 PM
 
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Check out Rixa Freeze's blog, and maybe even send her a plea for a phone conversation. She is very well-read and also wise about birth, and she might be an excellent resource as she just went to that big Breech conference in Canada, and she has had an unassisted homebirth. I would also call out to the Farm for a consult with them - I know it's in Tennessee, but you could still find a way to get out there. Or find a nearby state with attendants who are allowed to attend a breech birth. UC with your medical complications seems almost as scary as going to the hospital for a c-section. Hugs.

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Old 11-05-2009, 12:54 AM
 
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I gave birth in the hospital, but there's no reason we couldn't have done it unassisted at home....I was fully dilated and pushing, I stood up in stirrups with my knees bent all the way and dh and the doctor supporting my weight--so I was all the way upright, but with my knees bent all the way--and pushed as hard as I could. 2 pushes and her whole body, butt-first, and head came out all at once. I would never do this without assistance if I had the choice since there is always the chance of something going wrong that requires expert assistance, but, in our case it went very smoothly.

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Old 11-05-2009, 01:32 AM
 
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i woid be Very worried to attempt ahome uc breech more so with your first

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Old 11-05-2009, 01:36 AM
 
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Old 11-05-2009, 01:48 AM
 
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I just wanted to give s and say how happy I am that your baby is breech instead of transverse. Head-first or butt-first, at least they can fit out that way! And in your situation, I think an unassisted breech birth is definitely lower risk than the 50/50 chance you have if they perform a c-section.

I think butt-first is the best breech you can have, since the butt is about the same size as the head, so once the butt comes out, the head should fit too. A good thing to remember is 'hands off the breech'...nobody should be pulling on the baby as she's coming out, as it could startle her and she could throw her hands up which can make her get stuck.

In an undisturbed (unassisted) birth, you will naturally do what is best to help your baby be born.

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Old 11-05-2009, 01:53 AM
 
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i woid be Very worried to attempt ahome uc breech more so with your first

That.
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Old 11-05-2009, 01:57 AM
 
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DDC crashing... You need to make sure to research all the different breach positions and what is the safest course of action for each situation. A footling breach requires different techniques than a butt first breach... Pushing with a footling can can and will cause the baby to get stuck.
Please don't make this decision out of fear... You need to be well prepared if you decide to do this on your own. A UC is something you need to feel safe, comfortable, and prepared to do... Not something that you are doing to avoid another situation.

Blessed with two BEAUTIFUL little girls: Kylie (09/06) and Maggie (4/09) :
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Old 11-05-2009, 02:52 AM - Thread Starter
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We're not trying to rush with a decision any more than necessary. We do plan to take all the time we can with deciding. We're trying to find all we can about ALL the different options so as not to feel that we MUST do this or that. It's quite something to go from looking forward to the pain and aches of laboring and delivering right here at home, to having the wind knocked out of us finding out she's no longer head-down, and on the heels of all that went wrong otherwise in October.

Our midwife is trying to help find a hospital that will allow a breech delivery under the circumstances of a c-section being as dangerous for me as it is. The hospital her back-up doctor is at has told him ONE more and his days there are over (yeah, there are just so many hospitals pushing unnecessarians), so we're having to look for a plan B. I do feel that the odds would be better UC (where is the UC board? unless I'm blnd, I couldn't find it) that c/s. I've generally found that it's when I ignore what my body's tring to tell me that things have gone wrong. Body says to go get help and I do, it's all good. Body says to get help and I don't, and life becomes hell. I feel like my body is telling me now to trust it to let me know what to do.

If I wanted, I could have her out of me within days. My cousin with the same uterine abnormality (but without the rest of my medical history) is being sectioned at 32 weeks, regardless of orientation. I'm at 36 today, with a breech baby. I could take the "easy" way out and have her born pretty much whenever. But it feels wrong.

Part of my panicking, more than the 50/50 odds (flip a coin and have that decide if you see 2010), is that the hospital route, whether it's as natural as a hospital birth can be or c/s, feels beyond wrong. Beyond the birth being out of my control by walking in the doors, my body's been screaming that that isn't the way to go. I'm the type who has Tylenol just to have it on hand, and have taken in twice in the past four years. Going and getting filled with drugs when I'm not convinced it's necessary feels wrong on the most instinctive level for me.

Right now her butt is in my pelvis. Whether complete or frank, we won't know for certain until Friday, at which time I'll also be having a version. Over the last day or so, it's really felt like she's trying hard to move. The stupid septum at the top of my uterus is making it hard, and septums are at least partially responsible for the 82%-c/s-rate among bicornuate moms and almost entirely to blame for the 40%+ rate of breech babies to b.moms.

There are high risks no matter what if she doesn't go head-down, so the trick now is weighing which feels right if she doesn't, with the risks of each. I want to be able to enjoy this part of pregnancy, and am pretty angry that the joy's been taken away.

Money for The Farm just isn't going to happen (and do airlines even let women who are 36 weeks+ fly?), but perhaps they can give more info as well. I'll also check out the other links. Thanks for them.

Monica, I know that nothing here should be considered to be medical advice.
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Old 11-05-2009, 12:19 PM
 
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not something I would do. In fact, if you DO decide, please have someone who can update us regularily, b/c I know that personally, I'll be scared out of my mind for you. not b/c of uc, not b/c of breech, not b/c of your history that you've shared, but b/c of the combo of all 3 in a 1st birth.

believe me when I say you're in my thoughts.
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Old 11-05-2009, 12:51 PM
 
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not something I would do. In fact, if you DO decide, please have someone who can update us regularily, b/c I know that personally, I'll be scared out of my mind for you. not b/c of uc, not b/c of breech, not b/c of your history that you've shared, but b/c of the combo of all 3 in a 1st birth.

believe me when I say you're in my thoughts.
Please do update us! I feel the same way, I truly hope you find another option.

Deb

Deb, Mom to Madeleine 8/2005 and Maia 11/2009 Nick: and Chris
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Old 11-05-2009, 01:21 PM
 
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Just wanted to offer I have no idea what I'd do if I were you. It's good you're seeking out all the information that you can!

Mama to dd born 7/2005, dd born 12/2007 and dd born 11/2009.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:32 AM
 
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I personally would not feel comfortable birthing UC breech with a physical anomaly and/or medical condition like that. I do believe that breech is often a "variation of normal," but it could also be indicative of more serious concerns that might prove catastophic at home (with or without a care provider), esp. in light of your history. Breech UCs can go fabulously and without a hitch, please don't misread what I am saying. I am a huge supporter for UC for low-risk women who are aware of the risks and the benefits and make an informed decision. Personally, I don't feel your situation sounds low-risk at all.

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I could take the "easy" way out and have her born pretty much whenever.
IMO, there is no such thing as an easy way out with regards to birth choices. Everything has pros and cons, and as the mother, you get to make the personal decision that is in you and your baby's best interest.

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Part of my panicking, more than the 50/50 odds (flip a coin and have that decide if you see 2010), is that the hospital route, whether it's as natural as a hospital birth can be or c/s, feels beyond wrong. Beyond the birth being out of my control by walking in the doors, my body's been screaming that that isn't the way to go. I'm the type who has Tylenol just to have it on hand, and have taken in twice in the past four years. Going and getting filled with drugs when I'm not convinced it's necessary feels wrong on the most instinctive level for me.


Birth is a huge exercise in surrender of control regardless of the location. And IME, while getting "filled up on drugs" is typically not ideal, it is sometimes necessary and life-saving. Is your body screaming or your mind? Emotions can definitely play a huge part, esp. when you're under so much stress like it sounds you are.

I'm not making a judgement on your situation as I am not a medical person (understatement), but in all honesty and sincerity, I would look really hard at the facts, the availability of skilled and capable care providers who can deal with what you and baby are presenting vs. different scenarios at home and take emotions out of the decision as best you can. IME, panic decisions/fear-based decisions are typically not the best decisions.

I highly recommend checking out Rixa's site, too. She's really great about presenting facts and excellent personal observations and stories. Great info

Everyone has her own personal comfort level, and I would never presume to make that call for anyone.

Best wishes to you as you gather your information!

I have retired from administration work, so if you have a question about anything MDC-related, please contact Cynthia Mosher. Thanks!
 
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:04 AM
 
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I was actually studying breech today a bit and Anne Frye says that most babies that are breech and stay breech are breech for a reason. And breech babies have a higher rate of anomalies.

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Old 11-06-2009, 11:23 AM
 
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I am pretty sure mine is still breech, too, but I still have a few weeks. So I have been doing a ton of research. I saw an UC video where the mother delivered a breech baby in her bathtub, and one in a birth pool. Both times they just sat back and let the baby come out on his own. Also the online childbirth class says the best possition to deliver a breech baby is standing up. NO ONE should ever attempt to pull the baby out, and you should have a mostly hands off approach, so as not to startle the baby. I've heard that you don't want to push, but let your body's contractions push the baby out.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:48 PM
 
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I don't know the first thing about a bicornate uterus, and IDK what sorts of challenges that presents, medically.

But I was insanely worried about a breech baby with this pregnancy, for some reason, and researched out the wazoo (at 28 weeks, he's vertex so I'm not worried any more). I wasn't comfortable birthing in hospital with the current medical mindset (and lack of training and understanding) with breech so I would have considered an unassisted breech before I would consider a hospital birth.

I attended the first day of the Breech Birth conference and what I took away from that is that breech got a bad reputation due to prematurity and congenital abnormalities, so everyone went into a breech birth thinking, "this is gonna be bad" and then because they were scared they did more than they should and created the problems they wanted to avoid. IMO. This wasn't said at any point but this is what I came away with.

I heard a doctor from Denver speak - he's been delivering breech babies for 25 years, and has only needed to use forceps 3 times. I think he was the one who talked about the "adequate pelvis" and he was saying that almost every pelvis is adequate unless there was some sort of accident or disease that would have misshapen the pelvis somewhat. Might not have been him though. I should have taken notes :P

A doctor from Winnipeg, Manitoba said that vaginal breech risks are about equal to vertex birth risks.

A doctor from Israel talked about how he views breech birth- usually normal, easy, totally uncomplicated.

Jane Evans talked and showed pictures of a breech birth. She was saying that in a natural, undirected birth most mothers will birth hands and knees, and their bodies will move with the baby to the best positions for them (like, tipping the pelvis back when only the baby's head remains to be born to help the head flex, how the baby will spiral out on it's own as it maneuvers through the pelvis, how hands off they are, etc).

From research I've been doing a lot of midwives recommend not pushing for 1 hr after you get the urge to ensure full dilation.


Heres a photo series I like:

http://londonbirthpractice.co.uk/joo...-series_2.html

Another one of footling breech:

http://www.birthingway.com/footling_breech.htm

Breech waterbirth video on youtube that was pretty cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD5939e5PZ8


And just a random c-section for breech video. I thought it was sort of strange/weird the amount of pressure being put on the baby, the pushing and pulling, the lapse of time from the baby being born to the umbilicus until the head was born, and how they had to lift the baby by the feet to help the head flex.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvzxSI2mzCs

Grace - wife to Jeff and mama to Nigella (11/08) and Orrin (01/10)- expecting a new addition (05/12)! Life is a whirlwind, but I'm learning to enjoy the ride!

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Old 11-07-2009, 02:33 AM
 
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If you do have a breech home birth everything could go smooth and that would be bliss but if the baby's body is born and the head does not come out
easily your baby will need recusitation . You have to have a lot of strength to take this on and with no support I wold not encourage you.

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Old 11-07-2009, 03:24 PM
 
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Old 11-07-2009, 07:39 PM
 
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A huge : to Georgia.

Something that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is that babies pick up on their mothers stress hormones and react accordingly- and anecdatally, a lot of babies react to maternal stress by flipping breech. If there is a way, any way, that you can look inside yourself, still your mind and allow what will be, to be, then I really think that it- pregnancy, birth, motherhood, the whole of this journey- will go easier for you.

I'm also going to remind you that bicornuate uterus or no, if baby has recently moved position from transverse to breech then there's still room to go the other way.

Helen mum to five and mistress of mess and mayhem, making merry and mischief til the sun goes down.
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Old 11-07-2009, 09:42 PM
 
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Noelle....I wish you the best of luck.

If the hospital will allow you to deliver breech, I would be so happy.....if they will not, I would HIGHLY suggest you try and find a MW...ANYONE who will come and attend your birth who knows what they are doing....not because you CAN'T do it....but because you have so many factors coming into play, that it would probably be the very best thing to have someone there with many births and hopefully a few out of hospital breech births under her belt.


I believe in unassited childbirth. It is where my heart is and it is the type of birth that works best for my family.....so, please understand that is where I'm coming from. What makes me say that I think you should try and find someone who will assist, even if in an "underground" capacity, is because you have so many different things going on....there is no one thing about your situation which strikes me as inherently endangering to you or your baby...but everything taken into considerations at once -ESPECIALLY the fact that you weren't planning a UC until you felt backed into a corner- makes me feel like having someone there with breech exp. may be best.




All that being said....if I were in your exact shoes and had to choose between a c/s that I had a 50/50 chance of MAKING IT through...and a UC breech birth, even with everything else taken into consideration...you can bet your britches I'd be UCing.

Please....hit the books, find out EVERYTHING you can about your situations and possible turns it could take. Get on the phone with the Farm and ask them if they know anyone in your neck of the woods, get on the phone with everyone and anyone whose phone number you can get....just "bump into" everyone in the natural birth community that you can....maybe just maybe, someone will know of someone who could come and help you...or the very least, will have some words of wisdom.

I would never, ever consent to a procedure which left me with a 50% chance of DEATH if there were an option out there with better odds...and as much as you UCing with some of the factors involved makes me slightly "eh"....you UCing this baby, you have better than 50/50 odds of surviving.

All my love and best wishes....I can't believe this hospital wouldn't allow for a breech delivery, but I have been following your story and I know you have been trying really hard to get them to. *sigh* What they are doing should be illegal.

Me and DH ...lovin' DD dust.gif(6/08) and DS kid.gif(11/09) Plus NEW BABY!! DD baby.gif (UC-5/12) We heartbeat.gif Water Birth/Homebirth/No Vax or Circ/BF/BW/Country Livin'! chicken3.gif

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Old 11-08-2009, 12:18 AM
 
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In your case I would totally UC.
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Old 11-08-2009, 12:28 AM
 
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In your case I would totally UC.
And in your case I totally would not...
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Old 11-08-2009, 12:49 AM
 
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I delivered a frank breech unassisted this summer. We didn't know she was breech (though I thought her positioning was off somehow) and I don't know if we would have followed through with a UC had we known, but in the end it was a beautiful and simple birth. My baby wanted to be left alone I just listened to her.

In your place, I'd take the time to really sit and listen to baby. Ignore your fears, ignore other people's thoughts, ignore whatever information is bouncing around in your head and just listen to what he/she is telling you and see where that takes you.

Kim - Wife to Liam , Unschooly mama to Nick (10/00) Lily (09/05) and Olivia (07/09)
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Old 11-08-2009, 02:01 PM
 
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All that being said....if I were in your exact shoes and had to choose between a c/s that I had a 50/50 chance of MAKING IT through...and a UC breech birth, even with everything else taken into consideration...you can bet your britches I'd be UCing.


I would never, ever consent to a procedure which left me with a 50% chance of DEATH if there were an option out there with better odds...and as much as you UCing with some of the factors involved makes me slightly "eh"....you UCing this baby, you have better than 50/50 odds of surviving.
Where in the world are you getting the statistic that 50% of cesareans end in death???
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Old 11-08-2009, 03:34 PM
 
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Where in the world are you getting the statistic that 50% of cesareans end in death???
I believe the OP said SHE had a 50/50% chance of dying if she underwent a c/s. Not everyone.

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Old 11-08-2009, 05:12 PM
 
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I would not UC in your position.

IMO UC is for those with a low risk pregnancy and some knowledge of childbirth and infant emergency care. I don't think UC is for everyone and that is just reality.

Your pregnancy is not low risk. Your pregnancy is high-risk.

I realize it is very difficult to surrender to circumstances, I have had to go through that so I understand how hard it can be.

If you don't trust your OB to listen to you then you need a new OB.

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Old 11-09-2009, 12:44 AM
 
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I'm sorry you're having this trouble. I want to say that I was present for a breech birth (of a friend) last year with my homebirth midwife, who is extremely experienced and has delivered many breech babies, but even she is very cautious about them and encourages her clients to use the hospital or even have a c-section in some situations. I would really feel concerned about having the baby unassisted, this does not sound like a low risk situation at all...I am a three time homebirther and have witnessed a few more homebirths of friends and let me just say that some of the things I have experienced have been rather surprising and I was awfully glad to have a competant, experienced midwife available.

homebirthing organic mama to three crazy boys very blessed!!
Sweetiemommy is offline  
 
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