U/C and CPS - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-06-2010, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I was googling CPS and U/C and was annoyed CPS will get involved if the mother is reported for UCing.
Has anyone here had any run ins with CPS because of their choice to U/C or know of someone who did...I'd like to hear the story,and the outcome.
Now I see why so many women lie about U/Cing if they go to the hospital after birth..which is what I'm doing and now reading some of the stories I know I will def say it was an oops the baby came to fast kinda thing lol
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:00 PM
 
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A family in IL lost there daughter to CPS because of a UC. There first child died after a c-section birth due to meconium aspiration. They UCed their second daughter. They thought something was wrong after the birth and took their DD to the hospital. She had a slight shoulder injury. The hospital called CPS, and the newborn was placed in foster care. Now, the baby is about 3 months old and is in foster care (maybe placed with the grandparents). The parents can visit 8 hours per day.
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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A family in IL lost there daughter to CPS because of a UC. There first child died after a c-section birth due to meconium aspiration. They UCed their second daughter. They thought something was wrong after the birth and took their DD to the hospital. She had a slight shoulder injury. The hospital called CPS, and the newborn was placed in foster care. Now, the baby is about 30 months old and is in foster care (maybe placed with the grandparents). The parents can visit 8 hours per day.


That is so sad...I could see CPS taking the baby if they DIDNT seek medical attention..but in this case they did and were punished for it.
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:08 PM
 
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I have had 7 UC's and no issues w/ CPS, but it sure scares me.

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Old 11-06-2010, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have had 7 UC's and no issues w/ CPS, but it sure scares me.


Do you go to the hospital afterwards...I believe most cases reported are those in which the mom goes to the hospital afterwards...its a shame.
I can't say I wouldnt slam my door in their face out of anger lol I actually looked at this website just in case...http://www.fightcps.com
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:37 PM
 
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Do you go to the hospital afterwards...I believe most cases reported are those in which the mom goes to the hospital afterwards...its a shame.
I can't say I wouldnt slam my door in their face out of anger lol I actually looked at this website just in case...http://www.fightcps.com
No I have not.

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Old 11-06-2010, 07:01 PM
 
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This post comes with a built in disclaimer, as it is pretty controversial. If you have any questions about what I'm about to say, please do the digging on your own. I am no expert, and I really have no desire to get in a huge argument! Just putting it out there, for those that may be interested...

I *think* that is your child DOESN'T have a birth certificate, then CPS CAN'T take them. A birth certificate, as I understand it, is basically registering your child as a ward of the state, which would authorize the state to act in that child's behalf. If you UC, then you are in a unique place to avoid getting a birth certificate for your child. It IS NOT illegal, and even though it can be a HUGE HASSLE, a birth certificate or equivalent can be obtained at any point in a person's lifetime.

There... Call me crazy if you will. I'll be quietly .
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Old 11-06-2010, 07:44 PM
 
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I *think* that is your child DOESN'T have a birth certificate, then CPS CAN'T take them. A birth certificate, as I understand it, is basically registering your child as a ward of the state, which would authorize the state to act in that child's behalf.
This is not true.

It is, however, true that CPS is obligated to investigate reports - even if they are made maliciously. And it's appropriate that they should investigate all reports, even if the complaint is groundless.
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Old 11-06-2010, 07:51 PM
 
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A family in IL lost there daughter to CPS because of a UC. There first child died after a c-section birth due to meconium aspiration. They UCed their second daughter. They thought something was wrong after the birth and took their DD to the hospital. She had a slight shoulder injury. The hospital called CPS, and the newborn was placed in foster care. Now, the baby is about 3 months old and is in foster care (maybe placed with the grandparents). The parents can visit 8 hours per day.
Actually, I think that particular family had a midwife present? We're talking about Ruth Light, yes?

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Old 11-06-2010, 08:44 PM
 
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It's so sad but this is a primary fear of ours relating to a UC

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Old 11-06-2010, 08:48 PM
 
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It's so sad but this is a primary fear of ours relating to a UC

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Old 11-06-2010, 10:23 PM
 
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It is ridiculous and telling that this is such a worry for ucers and homebirthers. This was my #1 fear with my uc and latest hb. Especially in this state (il). Luckily they never called when I transferred after my uc. They drug tested the crap out of us but never called cps. Thank god. I'm still worried about what they'll say at the doctor, though.

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Old 11-07-2010, 12:30 AM
 
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This has been a huge concern of mine also. I have a large family, we home school and I have had had 2 UC births, by default really-1 fast labor and 1 attended by a traditional midwife so we just acted like it was a UC. We are planning a UC with this bundle-due yesterday, and I am worried about it mainly for that reason. While I understand the reason they investigate claims I do not think it should be up to one person to decide how I raise my kids. If the cps worker was an only child from an upper class family my family would look crazy. I am a clean freak but our 'things' are minimal and old. We live in our house all day so it looks like it, I know that we are not 'normal' by society norms at least and it concerns me that someone can decide what is best for my children besides my hubby and I. We recently moved from IL and I can say I am happy that we did especially because I heard about it happening to many of my hschooling friends. Arg, if only it was a perfect world.

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Old 11-11-2010, 02:14 AM
 
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I have had seven U/C's and one MWHB.  CPS was called with my first.  But, since I had already taken Baby to pedi for check up (which I do usually that day or next), it was closed immediately.  Never had them called again for that.  I also don't worry about it at all.


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Old 11-11-2010, 09:24 AM
 
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CPS can take a child whether they have a birth certificate or not.  However, I am now a foster mother, and I am learning that really, CPS is typically not malicious. Social workers really do want the best for the children.  They work really hard to reunify them with their biological parents as well, even people who have had 7 children taken away... they still make sure they have supervised visitation, etc. So really, my viewpoint on CPS has changed a lot now that I am working with them. I am surprised sometimes at how hard they DO work to reunify, when personally, I think 'that drug using parent is a piece of crap, WHY would we try to get their kids back with them?'  Anyhow, I know this won't make much difference with your fears.  I had the same fears for years, and had a social worker friend tell me 'they really aren't trying to tear apart families', but it didn't matter.  I do know that there are some bad social workers, just like there are some bad cops, some bad doctors, etc.

 

FYI, what we did to avoid issues with this is... after we started doing our own prenatal care, we wrote it all down just like the midwife's office had. We took him to the doctor less than a week after his birth for a checkup.  We applied for the birth certificate with all of our prenatal care information and doctor's record of seeing him.  If we had transferred, we would have been honest, but showed them all of our prenatal care that we had done, etc.  Hopefully, even if CPS had investigated, they wouldn't have actually opened a case.


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Old 11-12-2010, 07:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by gossamerwindweb View Post

CPS can take a child whether they have a birth certificate or not.  However, I am now a foster mother, and I am learning that really, CPS is typically not malicious. Social workers really do want the best for the children.  They work really hard to reunify them with their biological parents as well, even people who have had 7 children taken away... they still make sure they have supervised visitation, etc. So really, my viewpoint on CPS has changed a lot now that I am working with them. I am surprised sometimes at how hard they DO work to reunify, when personally, I think 'that drug using parent is a piece of crap, WHY would we try to get their kids back with them?'  Anyhow, I know this won't make much difference with your fears.  I had the same fears for years, and had a social worker friend tell me 'they really aren't trying to tear apart families', but it didn't matter.  I do know that there are some bad social workers, just like there are some bad cops, some bad doctors, etc.

 

FYI, what we did to avoid issues with this is... after we started doing our own prenatal care, we wrote it all down just like the midwife's office had. We took him to the doctor less than a week after his birth for a checkup.  We applied for the birth certificate with all of our prenatal care information and doctor's record of seeing him.  If we had transferred, we would have been honest, but showed them all of our prenatal care that we had done, etc.  Hopefully, even if CPS had investigated, they wouldn't have actually opened a case.

It has been my experience that once CPS investigates a claim, whether actual of fictitious the case is considered opened until proven it should be closed.  That is the thing I do not like, that you are guilty until proven innocent.  I also do not like the fact that the social worker gets to decide what is best for my children.  I know of one instance in which the cps worker tried to tell a mother that if she didn't have internet or a game counsel for her kids that was abuse!  I was outraged, those are personal opinions and I know many families who do not have TV's as a ethical decision.  I totally understand that most of the time the ones who need services or help fall through the cracks and that we really need people to investigate things since our society is so screwed up, it just concerns me that other people can make decisions for my family when the worst I am doing is going against mainstream and researching my decisions a heck of a lot more than a parent who just does what everyone else does.  I will now step down off my soap box! hehe.  I think it is just scary because I have seen CPS use home schooling, large family size, and birthing choices as a litmus test if you are a good parent.  I can imagine that being a foster mom you see a side of CPS none of us have, so I appreciate your opinion. 
 


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Old 11-12-2010, 08:34 AM
 
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I agree.  The guilty until proven innocent part distrubs me, as well as their personal decision as to the future of your family.  We were investigated for a bogus claim and ended up going through weeks of hell after those charges were obviously dropped because they were concerned about us being homeschoolers and co-sleeping with a 1 yo because a baby had died from SIDS in our town within the past year.  I mean, seriously.  It was utterly ridiculous and right before Christmas.  I still feel traumatized and invaded because of it.  I never had a negative feeling towards CPS until that.  


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Old 11-12-2010, 10:03 AM
 
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And I have social workers in my house all the time. Our 15 month old sleeps with us, and that is common knowledge. I cloth diaper, we had a UC, we aren't religious and don't go to church, etc. They all tell me what great parents we are.  I think they get more concerned when people seem 'off' on the surface. We seem like normal folks, and then they find out afterward that we aren't mainstream.  I do understand the fear. I have been there, and just wanted to give a different viewpoint. smile.gif


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Old 11-12-2010, 10:06 AM
 
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OH! And I also wanted to say that I had an internet friend have her children taken away supposedly for bogus claims... that she had a UC. The truth was (and I didn't find out until much later) that her house was FILTHY.  After she showed some pics of her house when it was 'clean' enough for them to give the kids back, I was still appalled by the grossness. 

 

My friend who is an attorney has seen some of these homes where children are taken out of and the parents swear it is for no good reason. When in reality there is animal feces all over, rotten food, filthy diapers only being changed once a day, horrid diaper rashes that aren't treated, etc. They really normally don't go after folks just to go after them.  I didn't believe it until just this last year, but from what I see, that is the truth.


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Old 11-12-2010, 10:55 AM
 
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I agree that some claims are not bogus, that people are truly living in unclean housing, but is I think it comes down to what is considered filthy and clean is an opinion.  I am a huge neat freak who grew up in a cluttered unclean house.  I have a place for everything and everything in its place attitude but as my family has grown I have given in on a lot of areas.  So if I were to be investigated during the day, my daughters booster may have crusted food on it- we wash it after dinner every night, there may be food on the rug under the table, and dirty dishes in the sink.  A basket of clean unfolded laundry may be sitting on the counter of the kitchen next to a jar of fermenting kefir.  The counter may be dusted in flour because I am making bread and there may be a mountain of coloring books and colors on the dining room table and my daughters cache of my lil ponies on the living room floor at any given time.  Is this filthy or just the fact that we live in the house and therefor there are projects going on.  At night and in the morning the house looks normal, because I have a method for maintaining chaos, but it is very opinion oriented!SUBMIT


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Old 11-12-2010, 11:51 AM
 
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Yes, opinion oriented is true. I don't see what you were writing about to be filthy though. If the booster or high chair was crusted with days-old food or mold.... or your kitchen counter was covered with mouse feces and rotting food (not kefir or saurkraut... rotting meat, etc), that would be more along the lines of what I have heard about. smile.gif

 

P.S. I grew up in a really dirty house as well, and my house is not perfect either. Even when I know a social worker is on their way over. Life is life, and they understand that.


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Old 11-12-2010, 12:50 PM
 
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I tend to cover my butt, for multiple reasons really. We live in a rural, small town, DH's work is directly related to "appearances". I am in the medical profession myself, my specialty has limited job openings, I have build a name for myself, oh and now I work in community health. My middle child is well known in the community for getting pertussis as a newborn. 2 of my children have special needs, and I just filled out the 10,000 forms last night for an eval for my 3rd. Needless to say, we are in and out of the system in so many different ways. I know we have strikes against us, the no-vaxing, none of the children have their room due to medical or mental issues, on and on. I do what I can to limit the damage in some areas that are very "out there" for the people we come into contact with.

 

I hire a MW just in case, I do no prenatals, last time she wasn't even here, but I can say "my MW was x". I say we have homebirths, never mentioning the UC part of it. I take the baby into my pedi by one week to get a record going. I have a trusted doc who will fight with me if need be, she has gone through so many medical problems with us. 

 

I am not worried about CPS, in the end I know if they came knocking  I could prove we are fit parents. I do want to make sure the investigation would be short regardless of the things we do. And because through the years with my first two kids, the specialists, and everything we have gone though, we get treated better, get the care they need easier, if we are seen like "normal" parents instead of the crazies in room 2 again. 


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Old 11-13-2010, 04:21 PM
 
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Slightly off topic. But as far as CPS just having our best interests at heart, I doubt it.

Actually, they took my sister based on false claims that my dad did something to her that he never would do and she even admits that. She was around 15 years old and was trying to get out of the house to go live with one of her friends. She ended up having to live with my aunt and she hated it because she discovered they were much stricter there than my parents were. She was very spoiled. My parents had to face all kinds of crap for at least 6 months after that before she finally was able to be home. 


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Old 11-13-2010, 06:07 PM
 
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of course your sister made a false claim... and they had to investigate it. That is so sad that it was so rough *shakes head* I'm sorry to hear that :(


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Old 11-13-2010, 06:47 PM
 
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Sure some cases are warranted, but a lot also are not. I would be pretty offended if someone thought I was lying about my CPS drama awhile back. Heck, I have pics of my house on my blog and flickr for proof. ;)  Luckily since my co-sleeper was almost 1 yo it wasn't worth their effort to prosecute.  

 

And what do you all do when you can't get to a doc within a week?  Ours just had surgery and the office (other doc in practice we haven't been to yet) requires us to pay up front in cash for the visit before we see the doctor since our insurance does not have her on there yet-we have to wait 2 more weeks for the birth certificate since it was a non-hospital birth- to get her on there and I don't have $300+ to shell out just to "prove" to CPS that we're legit.


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Old 11-14-2010, 04:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnmommi View Post

I was googling CPS and U/C and was annoyed CPS will get involved if the mother is reported for UCing.
Has anyone here had any run ins with CPS because of their choice to U/C or know of someone who did...I'd like to hear the story,and the outcome.
Now I see why so many women lie about U/Cing if they go to the hospital after birth..which is what I'm doing and now reading some of the stories I know I will def say it was an oops the baby came to fast kinda thing lol


When I was pregnant with Twins, the GP asked 'When are they going to induce you then?' I said, 'They're not, I am going to have a home birth', Raised eyebrows said it all.

Next thing I know he had reported me to the social services (we call them in the UK).

They had meetings, even the health visitor got involved, Funny because I thought she was only employed to work with us AFTER the midwife signs us out of their care.. Anyway..

Social services arranged meetings, saught Legal advice from the Police and even held a meeting in January 2010 trying to take the twins off me, Before I'd even had them - All because I wanted a home birth!!!

At this time, I called AIMS, And bless her, she came along to the meeting in question and advised us that until birth the Twins do NOT have a right to life and should the mother be of sound mind (which I am, just about, lol!) it's my decision where I give birth and WHO I have there.

They didn't listen, carried on pressurising me - To be honest, it's a ****ing miracle the babies didn't die inside me the amount of stress I was under, I nearly went into premature labour in the meeting!

 

There are still involved to this very day, Digging up what ever they can find, they STOPPED ME BREASTFEEDING, To be honest, I feel like I am not a Mother anymore, I have to do what they say, when they say it. 

 

THE MAIN REASON, the next will be an UB, with NO ante-natal care, I have all the kit I need RIGHT HERE.


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Old 11-14-2010, 10:41 AM
 
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OMG! I am SO sorry :( That is just a horrible story and I can't believe they are putting you through that much (((hugs)))
 

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Quote:
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I was googling CPS and U/C and was annoyed CPS will get involved if the mother is reported for UCing.
Has anyone here had any run ins with CPS because of their choice to U/C or know of someone who did...I'd like to hear the story,and the outcome.
Now I see why so many women lie about U/Cing if they go to the hospital after birth..which is what I'm doing and now reading some of the stories I know I will def say it was an oops the baby came to fast kinda thing lol


When I was pregnant with Twins, the GP asked 'When are they going to induce you then?' I said, 'They're not, I am going to have a home birth', Raised eyebrows said it all.

Next thing I know he had reported me to the social services (we call them in the UK).

They had meetings, even the health visitor got involved, Funny because I thought she was only employed to work with us AFTER the midwife signs us out of their care.. Anyway..

Social services arranged meetings, saught Legal advice from the Police and even held a meeting in January 2010 trying to take the twins off me, Before I'd even had them - All because I wanted a home birth!!!

At this time, I called AIMS, And bless her, she came along to the meeting in question and advised us that until birth the Twins do NOT have a right to life and should the mother be of sound mind (which I am, just about, lol!) it's my decision where I give birth and WHO I have there.

They didn't listen, carried on pressurising me - To be honest, it's a ****ing miracle the babies didn't die inside me the amount of stress I was under, I nearly went into premature labour in the meeting!

 

There are still involved to this very day, Digging up what ever they can find, they STOPPED ME BREASTFEEDING, To be honest, I feel like I am not a Mother anymore, I have to do what they say, when they say it. 

 

THE MAIN REASON, the next will be an UB, with NO ante-natal care, I have all the kit I need RIGHT HERE.




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Old 11-14-2010, 10:43 AM
 
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I don't think anyone said you were lying.  I certainly didn't. I was just saying (knowing it wouldn't make a difference, and I see now I should have kept my mouth shut) that my experience is that they aren't constantly trying to take kids away for no reason. I was trying to ease minds, since I used to be terrified of them until I started working with them and now I am surprised, really, at the efforts they make to put kids BACK with their parents.  Of course, every state, and even every county in every state is different.
 

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Originally Posted by kittywitty View Post

Sure some cases are warranted, but a lot also are not. I would be pretty offended if someone thought I was lying about my CPS drama awhile back. Heck, I have pics of my house on my blog and flickr for proof. ;)  Luckily since my co-sleeper was almost 1 yo it wasn't worth their effort to prosecute.  

 

And what do you all do when you can't get to a doc within a week?  Ours just had surgery and the office (other doc in practice we haven't been to yet) requires us to pay up front in cash for the visit before we see the doctor since our insurance does not have her on there yet-we have to wait 2 more weeks for the birth certificate since it was a non-hospital birth- to get her on there and I don't have $300+ to shell out just to "prove" to CPS that we're legit.




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Old 11-14-2010, 11:19 AM
 
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I didn't mean you in particular. ;)  I just meant the general attitude a lot of people have that if CPS investigates you must be hiding something. 

 

I was mostly unfortunate in that it seems my area was trying to make a case against homeschooling at the time, and we were homeschoolers.  Our case and the one before us were dropped, but it was still scary how much power they have over you for something that isn't even illegal-in fact it's very legally supported here.


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Old 11-14-2010, 03:09 PM
 
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I agree Kitty that homeschooling seems to set you up to be investigated.  I do understand that there are cases in which investigations are necessary I just  really do not like the fact that of the cases they investigated in IL( the last place I checked) 75% were cases that were faulty claims.  I guess I also take issue with the red tape and bureaucratic dollars it takes to help only 1/4 of the cases.  Obviously that doesn't account for the many they miss.  I also do not like being lumped in with drug addicts, prostitutes, and molesters since I homeschool, co-sleep and give birth at home.   I guess one claim should not be enough to make me have to prove my fitness to parent.  I also have heard scare tactics used by some of these workers when parents try to get their rights.  Like 'let me in or I will take your kids'.  I am sure that there are many more good ones, that we do not hear about compared to the bad few we do, just like any other profession.  People are human and people can be power hungry also.  Anyway I think it is great to have a varied perspective, and although I do not fear CPS, I am watchful of the things I say about my children and who I speak to.  I know that if I had to I can prove myself a fit parent, I would just hate to deal with all that crap on top of the other stuff I have to do everyday!


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