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#61 of 244 Old 04-03-2011, 11:11 AM
 
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Yep. Actually, in this case, there was enough for them to investigate, the mother admitted the drug addiction to the social worker but didn't admit to the other issues (ones they couldn't prove, like sometimes leaving loaded weapons lying around the house, not always using carseats, among others), and CPS ended up deciding I was "malicious" in my report. That's ok, I really was hoping it would be a wake-up call for them to get help and be safer.

 

 

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From what I've heard, CPS doesn't do much about drug abuse unless it can be proven (and like they said, most of the time, there's just not enough solid evidence to step in and intervene) and is causing observable harm to the children (drug-related accidents, mom not keeping the house clean, mom spending all her $ on drugs instead of food, etc). They do not always follow up on every call. Mostly they follow up when there is some reason to believe that abuse or neglect of the children is going on... In this case, they are worried that she may be medically neglecting her child; by ensuring the house is clean and stocked with food, having the baby see a physician regularly, and having her facts ready to go to explain anything she is foregoing (like vaccinations), she can combat that and show that it is not the case.



 


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#62 of 244 Old 04-03-2011, 02:08 PM
 
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Umm my SIL was drug tested and came back positive for opiates and it was a HIGH number and they basically told her it was fine and she had not one repercussion from it and the case was closed shortly after...

 

just saying


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#63 of 244 Old 04-03-2011, 03:22 PM
 
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This whole thread brings up something I have been wondering about for a while.  After hearing horror stories from friends, friends of friends, and online about CPS and the damage they can do (and when they dont help when it is actually needed) I have been wondering how to find out about our actual rights and the law.  A friend of mine told me she was at the grocery store one day when a mother was dealing with a preschooler throwing a horrible embarrasing tantrum.  Right about the time my friend was thinking she should dicipline the child, the mother swooped the child up who was laying onthe floor screaming and kicking and throwing things off the shelves, and bare handedly spanked the child a couple of swats (which of course, didnt phase the child) and put him in the cart and started to head she guessed towards the exit, giving up on her shopping since she ditched the few things in her cart.  Someone however must have thought those few swats to a clothed backside were too much because as my friend got to her car which was parked just a few away from that lady, the cops were questioning her and said they got a report of child abuse.  My friend did all she could not to stop and stare she couldn't believe it. Last thing she heard was the cop telling her they were obligated to report her to CPS and she would be contacted within a day or so to have a meeting with them.

 

Okay, so my question is...  all debates and differences of opinions aside, how and where do we find out the actual laws state to state concerning dicipline, ages children can be left alone at home, what our rights are if police show up because of false reports at your home (this recently happened to my brother and it led to a horror story of kids being questions without the parents while half asleep, etc) and exactly what rights CPS has state to state?  I know this info may not all be on one site but I am all of a sudden feeling the need to really educate myself and be prepared.  You think these types of things will never happen to you because you don't abuse your children, do your best to protect them and teach them right from wrong, and be normal people but it just isnt enough sometimes. 

 

Side note: I was molested alone with several other aquaintaces of mine by an elderly man when I was younger (though, not that young, like 13and up) and we were all eventually called for interviews and gave our statements as hard as it was and nothing ended up happening.  Only thing that stopped it was when he died on the operating table when i was 7 days away from turning 18.

 

Sometimes CPS really fails us.  I am not sure which is worse though, but I believe its them tearing apart good families without just cause.


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#64 of 244 Old 04-03-2011, 04:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sosurreal09 View Post

Umm my SIL was drug tested and came back positive for opiates and it was a HIGH number and they basically told her it was fine and she had not one repercussion from it and the case was closed shortly after...

 

just saying

 

I'm not surprised. They are Child Protective Services, not the DEA; if they don't have evidence of the child suffering (being abused or neglected in some tangible way), most of the time, they don't do much, if anything.

 

I agree with other posters that CPS often takes children from healthy environments and leaves children in unhealthy ones; they also put children in both healthy AND unhealthy environments. The system is well-intentioned and does do a lot of good for children it actually does save, but it flawed and the price of those flaws is high.
 

 


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#65 of 244 Old 04-03-2011, 11:45 PM
 
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Not all CPS Case Workers are "two faced".  They're also not all Social Workers but that's a different issue.

 

As a prior CPS Social Worker I can tell you that a lot of resistance would be a red flag for me.  But then again, we never sent letters first.  We only went to do investigations if our risk matrix came out that the child was at risk of harm due to the report.  I know that all states are not doing a great job in their CPS departments, but this thread really seems to be demonizing everyone nationwide.  In my case I visited children at schools w/out parental consent (having a active investigation was enough) and also looked at homes (with parent's consent).  No one ever refused me.  I did not remove children without an officer present (they were the actual ones taking custody, CPS workers could not legally do it themselves).  If a house looked unsafe (drug items around, child visibly injured, parent high/intoxicated, known abuser present (as in sex abuse cases), etc then we contacted the police to come take custody.

 

In your case OP the complaint may be due to your UC, but it could be a million other things.  Since no one came immediately to your door you are probably not high on their list.  Perhaps they have a community support program (part of CPS but there to give supportive services to parents that are deemed borderline for issues).  Not that you would qualify of course, but they may be assessing you for the program based on someone's report.

 

I felt the need to add to this thread b/c it was SO anti-CPS and very fear based.  I realize that people have had bad experiences but please don't paint the whole system that way.  I was a good CPS worker who genuinely cared about her families that I helped.  I worked with many people who were the same way.


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#66 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 07:59 AM
 
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As a prior CPS Social Worker I can tell you that a lot of resistance would be a red flag for me

...and that right there is the first problem with CPS. That comes across as a veiled threat (not from you personally, but if an agency as a whole feels that way). It basically communicates that the person had better comply or else more "red flags" would be raised. Which implies the agency making life more difficult for people who may not have done anything wrong.

 

I am not overly fearful of CPS nor do I think the entire agency is full of natural parenting witch-hunters. That said, there is no way in he!! I would allow a worker into my home without a warrant. It's just basic exercising of rights. Same with a police officer -- unless I myself was reporting a crime (like a burglary at my home) I would not allow a police officer in my home without a warrant. Now, I would be as respectful as can be -- because I truly have nothing to hide -- but they would not enter in my home.

 

It's not because I feel all CPS workers or police officers are out to get me or something (quite the contrary in most cases), but because if one doesn't exercise their rights, they can lose them easily. Additionally, it's a protection for me against people who could potentially see situations similar to mine everyday but with neglect as the cause rather than education, information, and conscious decisions made on religious beliefs.

 

In other words, if 90% of CPS cases where the children are not in school, not vaccinated, don't have access to certain foods, the mother is receiving no "professional" prenatal care, and where the child "sleeps" with daddy are because they don't give a rat's butt about education, didn't bother to vaccinate, aren't feeding their kids, too poor or negligent to receive prenatal care, and where the child is being molested .... I don't expect the worker to show a whole lot of discernment when he/she sees me who unschools mindfully and intentionally,  doesn't vax for religious and evidence-based reasons, feeds my child a whole foods' vegetarian diet on purpose, does my own prenatal care independent of finances, and has a family bed on purpose and within the framework of a loving, attached, healthy family unit.

 

What's to say the worker, who may have NEVER  in their career seen a family do the above-mentioned practices intentionally and mindfully (but only as the residual affects of negligence) won't make the determination that I too am doing these things out of neglect? I can see how easily that could happen without the worker being "evil" or out to "get me". Such determinations cannot be made in the first place if I exercise my right to privacy and place the burden on them to prove I am being abusive or neglectful rather than accepting the burden on myself to prove to THEM that I'm not.

 

So, wave your red flags all over town but unless it's accompanied by a warrant or judicial order (which are very difficult to get in the absence of any evidence), no one is coming in my home. I will decline them with all the hospitality I can muster, but decline them access all the same.

 

Any lawyer worth a roll of quarters would advise the same, especially if the parents truly have "nothing to hide".

 

 

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#67 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 08:20 AM
 
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In other words, if 90% of CPS cases where the children are not in school, not vaccinated, don't have access to certain foods, the mother is receiving no "professional" prenatal care, and where the child "sleeps" with daddy are because they don't give a rat's butt about education, didn't bother to vaccinate, aren't feeding their kids, too poor or negligent to receive prenatal care, and where the child is being molested .... I don't expect the worker to show a whole lot of discernment when he/she sees me who unschools mindfully and intentionally,  doesn't vax for religious and evidence-based reasons, feeds my child a whole foods' vegetarian diet on purpose, does my own prenatal care independent of finances, and has a family bed on purpose and within the framework of a loving, attached, healthy family unit.

 

 


I don't believe most CPS cases involve these issues, which is part of why I have been surprised at the fears expressed in this thread.  To me, it does make it look like you feel you are doing something wrong if you believe your children can be taken away because of your parenting style. 
 

During our marriage, we were investigated twice due to domestic violence, I've been investigated once for neglect when I had a very messy house, my ex has also been investigated for sexual abuse.  I have met 2 people over the years who had children removed from their homes because of domestic violence that affected the children.  I have met one person whose children were removed because she was snorting crack in front of her kids when she answered the door to the social worker (I once spent time in a homeless shelter, you meet some interesting characters along the way).  I have never seen anyone lose their children because they cosleep, homeschool, vaccinating, or because of how they give birth.

 

I used to go to church with a family who fostered babies.  The mom had breastfed her own until age 2 and spoke positively about cosleeping, though she is not allowed to cosleep with her foster children.  She was very supportive of me when I was going through some of our investigations, and assured me that I hadn't done anything that would warrant further inquiries.  Our issues were about violence in the home, not attachment parenting.  Basically, I don't believe CPS picks on people who practice attachment parenting, unless something else is going on.

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#68 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 09:18 AM
 
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To the above 2 posts:

 

I do know in my state you can have your child taken away if each child does not have their own bedroom by age 2 y/o. Co-sleeping is not really considered ok but the main issue is that the room and bed ect needs to be provided for each child. Same sex children can share a room but I believe after age 2 or 3 opposite sex children need seperate rooms. So if you are co-sleeping with a 5 y/o and a 3 y/o you better have rooms established for them and keep the co-sleeping on the DL.

 

Also you can have children taken for not vaxing, but only if it is due to medical neglect, but like Tumble said you have to prove I do x,y,z as an educated decision, not b/c of neglect. 

 

I personally know that DCF (CPS) can make up whatever they want to. My family was investigated when I was 15 b/c my mother committed suicide with us in the house. My father was beating the crap out of us and DCF knew that. He went to punch me in the face one time during a "meeting" with DCF and the worker looked at me and said "Why did you make him mad?" We went through 5 different workers b/c no one wanted to deal with us. It ended with me having a chince on me and them convincing my dad I was a heroine addict (without one drug test) and then he finally said he couldn't deal with me anymore and gave me up to the state. I managed to get my files from them after I turned 18 and not ONCE is abuse mentioned. Just a bunch of stuff about me being a drug addict (which I wasn't). This was only 8yrs ago too BTW.

 

They did not help me at all.


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#69 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 10:39 AM
 
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Tea-Time, you have obviously not been through the system, you have only worked for it.  Working for the system and living through its horrors, is an entirely different viewpoint.  You will defend what you do, I understand that, because you truly believe you are doing the right thing.  Why aren't you so understanding of the fact there are clearly those who have been burned by the system and have the scars to show for it?  Is CPS without corruption or is it perfect in every way?  I don't think anyone here would say either is the case 100%, including yourself.

 

Your post is the typical mindset of the average CPS worker, but not all, and then you wonder why people are "anti-CPS".  2whistle.gif

 

(On a side note, I want to say that I've seen a couple times here on Mothering.com that CPS workers are not social workers.  This is only true based on the region in which you live.  I grew up with both "case workers" and "social workers" on my case, which each had separate roles and degrees.  I also had other "workers" on my case that I've never heard of in other states.  In the same way, there are CASA workers and GAL's, which are the same and yet, different.  Some are real lawyers and others are volunteers, but both act on behalf of the children in care.  CPS is also a broad term, because others know it by DHS, DFS, DFSS, DSS...you name it.  Call any of these what you wish, but it depends greatly on where you live, so that's a relative point to make.)

 

Tumbles, I agree with your response.  thumb.gif

 

Kythe, there are very corrupt CPS agencies around the country, but there are also very good ones  As Tumbles has said in a previous post, this isn't much of a problem even in her own area, but as others have said, their area is hostile to that lifestyle.  It depends on where you live.

 

Sharita, the answer to your question is to know your state and local laws.  A person who knows their rights, has them, but for the person who doesn't know their rights, has none.  So know your state and local laws.  smile.gif  Above them all is the U.S. Constitution, which is what people here have argued for.  Regardless of state and local laws, the U.S. Constitution is suppose to be supreme law of the land.  (That's why you hear so much about certain laws being made that are "unconstitutional".)  Per the tenth amendment of the Constitution (my favorite one), the states are allowed to make their own laws, which is why you should be familiar with the ones in your local area and state, as well.  For instance, every state has a law on spanking.  Look up your state laws on that and be aware of them.

 

This is why people should care more about local and state elections, because those affect you on a daily basis more than a presidential election does.  Do you know the names of your local and state officials?  (Speaking to everyone in general.)

 

Valarie, as a lawyer yourself, would you like to shed some light to those here on what one should look for in a lawyer if a situation like this were to happen to them?  I would love to hear your thoughts.

 

Sosurreal09, I am very sorry to hear your situation!  greensad.gif  I speculate you were "too old" for them to care.  The system is already "overburdened" and you'll be 18 soon anyways, so you weren't worth the trouble.  irked.gif  I am very sorry to hear about your mother and the situation with your father!

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#70 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 11:18 AM
 
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To me, it does make it look like you feel you are doing something wrong if you believe your children can be taken away because of your parenting style. 
 

Then Kythe, I'm ever so happy you're not a worker on a CPS case investigating me LOL I know I'm not doing anything wrong...that's the point of this entire thread. *I* personally don't have to feel like *I'm* doing anything wrong to get a letter in the mail...(like the OP)...neither was my close friend (who is actually a police officer) when her son went to school and told a friend his mom didn't feed him. The teacher over-heard this, and my friend, who actually works closely with CPS,  was investigated. Imagine her utter EMBARRASSMENT...she wasn't doing anything wrong but a mandated reporter says the kid isn't being fed, in your life they come.

 

Now, the truth of the matter is, he had asked for pudding for dinner the evening before, to which my friend said "no", then fed him the dinner everyone else was eating, of which he declined because he was in a mood. I'm sure we've all been there (my friend isn't a radical unschooler so there is no pudding for dinner in her home lol). Still, the child had access to food, but it's not against the law to refuse your child chocolate pudding for dinner, nor is it neglectful. The point is, my friend wasn't doing anything wrong, she didn't "believe" she was doing anything wrong, and still had a CPS social worker show up at her home. Nothing came of it obviously because my friend is a good mama and the social worker knew her personally and had worked with her -- but given different circumstances (say, it was grocery day and the cupboards were pretty bare and she hadn't gone shopping yet or whatever...and the social worker didn't have a previous relationship with her)...her life could have been totally messed up due to an overzealous teacher who misheard a conversation between 6 year olds.

 

No, people don't get kids removed for parenting naturally. You don't have to get your children taken away to be investigated, to have your life turned upside down, to be fearful (like the OP) that they're going to show up wanting free reign over your home... and one person's "natural parenting" can be another person's "neglectful parenting". My own mother (thank God she's not a social worker) told me she felt it was "neglectful" for babies to not be on a strict schedule. Imagine if she were an overzealous CPS worker? What you and I call "parenting naturally" a CPS worker  may call "medical neglect" (not vaxxing for example). What I call a whole foods' vegetarian diet a CPS worker may call "insufficient nutrition". I don't have to believe I'm doing anything wrong, but in an investigation, I'm not the one deciding.

 

Anyone who believes that CPS doesn't at least investigate situations where there is potential for "neglect" when there are reports of it (even if none exists in actuality) is extremely naive, at best...and good luck to anyone who willingly surrenders their basic human rights (in any situation) because they "have nothing to hide" is just asking for their rights to be disregarded imo. That doesn't mean they necessarily will be, but the chances escalate.

 

This isn't WWII Poland, thank God. I don't have to just let people storm in my home (no matter how "politely") checking for whatever they deem necessary to either accuse or exonerate me of a crime which I haven't committed in the first place, and no amount of reverse psychology (if you don't, we'll get more suspicious!) is going to have the intended effect. The US may have its share of problems but the police (or cps) cannot just storm into your home without a warrant or judicial order because your neighbor saw your school-aged kid out playing and thinks they're truant from school, thus you're a neglectful parent.... and I'm not about to give them license to.

 

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#71 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 11:45 AM
 
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I agree with Tumble, also want to add a LOT of the things we do can be seen as neglectful. I could be considered neglectful b/c my baby doesn't have a crib/her own bedroom, she runs around the house diaper-less at least an hour a day (and yes sometimes she has an "accident" and pees/poops on the floor!), I don't usually follow medical advice and am into homeopathy, don't vax, don't spend my whole life cleaning, and I'm sure there is a lot more.

 

I have had mainstream friends and family accuse me of neglect/harmful for not vaxing, having her go diaper less, co-sleeping, being "too laid back" about discipline, letting her climb on the stairs, not folding my clothes and putting them away, not giving her enough TOYS, BFing past infancy, not going to enough play dates, not providing enough "snacks" (There is no goldfish in my cabinet! But kids need goldfish right?) (I only give her fresh fruits or veggies for snacks and coconut yogurt) ect ect

 

A lot of people think a lot of different things are neglectful or harmful and really it all depends on your worker. One worker might be horrified you are BFing and sleeping with a 4 y/o! Then to boot there is laundry on the floor and the next thing you know they are taking your LO away for a fire hazard and the fact your LO doesn't have his own room.


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#72 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 01:06 PM
 
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How could you possibly say that my mindset is "the typical average CPS worker"?  You have no idea what is in my mind based on a quick couple paragraph response in a forum.  I am surprised at how quickly judgements are flying around here.  For one thing I haven't worked in CPS in many years, so I am not a current worker.  In fact I moved on to work as a Therapist doing Attachment Therapy with children and families from the system (and adoption as well).  I absolutely believe (and did not deny) that people have been wronged and "burned" by the system.  It works well in many places and not at all in others.  I was fortunate to work in a State where it each worker didn't have absolute power, they followed a specific matrix (and command of overseeing) to determine if a child was at risk.  No whilly nilly stuff.  In addition, all of the parenting issues you and other posters presented would have never made it on our radar.  Not an issue.  They were only concerned with children who were harmed or at risk of imminent harm.  Co-sleeping in fact was pretty typical due to the cultures I worked with. 

 

As an aside, my issue with "Social Worker" vs case worker has to do with my profession.  In my state (as in most states) you are not a Social Worker unless you have a Master's Degree and are Licensed by the state.  Unfortunately part of the problem in many states/areas is that untrained non-professionals are doing a job to which they are not adequately trained.  Not that being a official Social Worker makes you perfect, but it goes a long way to show a level of education and training to at least have a better grasp on the issues around child abuse.
 

Quote:
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Tea-Time, you have obviously not been through the system, you have only worked for it.  Working for the system and living through its horrors, is an entirely different viewpoint.  You will defend what you do, I understand that, because you truly believe you are doing the right thing.  Why aren't you so understanding of the fact there are clearly those who have been burned by the system and have the scars to show for it?  Is CPS without corruption or is it perfect in every way?  I don't think anyone here would say either is the case 100%, including yourself.

 

Your post is the typical mindset of the average CPS worker, but not all, and then you wonder why people are "anti-CPS".  2whistle.gif

 

(On a side note, I want to say that I've seen a couple times here on Mothering.com that CPS workers are not social workers.  This is only true based on the region in which you live.  I grew up with both "case workers" and "social workers" on my case, which each had separate roles and degrees.  I also had other "workers" on my case that I've never heard of in other states.  In the same way, there are CASA workers and GAL's, which are the same and yet, different.  Some are real lawyers and others are volunteers, but both act on behalf of the children in care.  CPS is also a broad term, because others know it by DHS, DFS, DFSS, DSS...you name it.  Call any of these what you wish, but it depends greatly on where you live, so that's a relative point to make.)

 


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#73 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 01:10 PM
 
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Coming from New Posts. I don't know where the OP is, I forgot to look, but in Canada, CAS workers don't need warrants to come into your home, or to speak with your children.


That is incredibly scary.


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#74 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 01:22 PM
 
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I also wanted to add for the OP, I can only imagine how stressful this must be.  If I was you I'd just contact the worker and ask what the letter was in regards to.  I wouldn't keep worrying about it or wondering, just find out.  Although we didn't use letters, we often had to contact people b/c of claims the hotline.  After a quick conversation (in person) with the parent and the child I'd be able to close the case and make a note in case a similar "report" (ie - annoying neighbor) came in.  If the person avoided me or I couldn't see the kids (they were never home, not at school, etc) that's when I had to get the police involved and in those cases there was always something up.  I remember having a case where someone accused the mom of not having any food for the kids.  She quickly showed me her pantry, I asked the kids about food and that was that.  However, all that said, if you live in a community where CPS seems to run amuck (perhaps look online for news stories and see how many "bad cps" ones show up) I'd be more careful and do what the other posters were suggesting (lawyer, etc).  

 

I hope this is resolved quickly for you!  Congratulations on your LO. 


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#75 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 01:51 PM
 
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That's the issue though, tea_time -- someone says I don't have food for my kids and there's no way cps is coming in to "check out my pantry" even if I have a stock of 6 months' worth of food. If you have to "get the police involved" (whatever that means), so be it. They can't come in either without a warrant and one needs evidence (at the very least, probable cause) to obtain a warrant. Some random phone call that my kids have no food does not evidence make. Again, I wouldn't be combative or mean about it... I'd be respectful as can be, while still exercising my rights. If a warrant was obtained (in some places a judicial order), a warrant has to have specific places to look and why. In other words, if a CPS worker came in to "check the pantry" without a warrant -- she could also make note of the laundry pile, or litter box that may have a slight smell, or dishes in the sink (whatever). If they have a warrant, specifically to look for food in the pantry, food in the pantry would be the only thing they would be able to look for or make note of. They wouldn't even be able to open the fridge unless the warrant said "pantry and contents of fridge".

 

Similarly, if my children are in school (we homeschool so it's moot) they can come and interview my children in certain cases -- however, my children are NOT required to speak to anyone without my presence and parents should make their school-age children aware of that. The parents have to be notified the moment the child says "I have the right to have my parents here and don't have to speak until they are notified". The only caveat is if the parent is the one accused of the abuse (say in a molestation case), in which case the child has a right to an advocate present for them.

 

This stuff is pretty standard federal American citizen rights, irrespective of a particular state or jurisdiction and one does not need to be a lawyer to have this information, or to use it (I'm not a lawyer).

 


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#76 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 01:52 PM
 
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I found tea_time's post quite unbiased and I think it is unfair to say she has the typical mindset of a CPS worker.

 

It is true that much of what "we" do can be construed as neglect by those who are used to seeing such things done due to a LACK of parenting, rather than as a parenting decision based on thorough research.

 

It is also true that it is rare for children to be taken as a result of "natural parenting" unless something else is going on.

 

It is true that CPS can and does help many children and families.

 

It is true that CPS fails many children and families.

 

There's no reason to pass judgment on the entire system or anyone in it.

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#77 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 01:56 PM
 
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Oh I wasn't picking on tea_time or villifying the entire agency, I think everyone should exercise their rights in any situation dealing with government agencies. One can exercise their rights in a respectful polite way (without being combative or rude).

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#78 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 02:08 PM
 
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Oh... how is the OP?  Been thinking of you and your family. 

 

 


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#79 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 02:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sharita View Post

 

 

Okay, so my question is...  all debates and differences of opinions aside, how and where do we find out the actual laws state to state concerning dicipline, ages children can be left alone at home, what our rights are if police show up because of false reports at your home (this recently happened to my brother and it led to a horror story of kids being questions without the parents while half asleep, etc) and exactly what rights CPS has state to state?  I know this info may not all be on one site but I am all of a sudden feeling the need to really educate myself and be prepared.  You think these types of things will never happen to you because you don't abuse your children, do your best to protect them and teach them right from wrong, and be normal people but it just isnt enough sometimes. 

 

Side note: I was molested alone with several other aquaintaces of mine by an elderly man when I was younger (though, not that young, like 13and up) and we were all eventually called for interviews and gave our statements as hard as it was and nothing ended up happening.  Only thing that stopped it was when he died on the operating table when i was 7 days away from turning 18.

 

Sometimes CPS really fails us.  I am not sure which is worse though, but I believe its them tearing apart good families without just cause.


I am sorry to hear of your molestation.  I understand in my own right.

 

I was talking to my MIL and FIL recently.  I explained how my mom and bonus dad would let my bonus brother and bonus sister stay home alone a ton (they married when I was 10).  My FIL said "How many parties, friends came over, how much underage partying did you do".  We did do a ton of all that, my folks were pretty self absorbed and needed "their time".  My DH was always greeted by a parent when coming home and was never left to hang out while his folks were "gone for the evening or weekend". 

 

I decided at that moment that I would not have my DS home alone for extended periods of time.  Prior to my mother marring my bonus dad, I was left waaaayy too young at 6 and on.  Call me overprotective.. but at least I will know what is going on in my home with my child....  I can only hope. 

 

Around my state (WA), I believe a child can be 13 on their own. 

 

 

 


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#80 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 02:20 PM
 
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Sorry I can't read the entire thread, but it looks like you're getting good advice!

 

I really think you should call a lawyer before responding.  And if you're too uncomfortable to call them, then draft a response and send it via certified mail.  And if they come back by before you get some of this resolved on your end, I'd thank them for coming but tell them that you've contacted a lawyer and can't speak with them at this point.  They should bring a specific warrant if they feel the need to do a home inspection.

 

I'm sorry you're dealing with this.  People are creepy.


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#81 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 02:27 PM
 
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Tea-Time, I am responding to what you said, which is typical to what an average CPS worker says to defend what they do.  I stand by that.  Your comments about parents who are "resisting" as drawing a "red flag" is disturbing.  A parent who exercises their rights as parents is hardly a reason to draw a "red flag", which is clearly what others have stated here to do and the ONLY reason you would have made that comment to begin with.  Criminals are given more rights than parents.  A criminal has a right to a trial.  Do parents accused of neglect or abuse?  No.  Anyone have a problem with that?  Yet, a parent who wishes to exercise their rights to protect themselves from the whole mess of a system (regardless of how sincere a worker is), is doing to draw a "red flag"?  Come on now.  We can do better than that.

 

Likewise, you have made judgments about people here being filled with fear and anti-CPS, based on just a few things they have said.  I've read from those same people that they agree not all CPS workers are corrupt, but in fact, several are very genuine!  No one here has painted the WHOLE system like that, except to say that the WHOLE system is in dire need of reform, to which I undoubtedly agree!  So why did you feel the need to comment if what people have said here, agree with you that the whole system is not that way?

 

I have an idea as to why you started your post and it wasn't to plead with us to do what we're already doing.  You started your whole post with, "Not all CPS case worker are 'two-faced'".  Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see where anyone here said they were "two-faced".  Did anyone make that statement?  I am asking honestly.  Perhaps I missed it.  Regardless, why did you make such a statement, unless you simply felt threatened by the comments here that restrict all those privileges you were given by a CPS handbook manual, not the laws of the land.  You then went on to defend what you did as a CPS worker.

 

Again, back to the criminals.  When they are arrested, they are told their "Miranda Rights".  Do you give parents their "Miranda Rights" when you come to visit their home?  Do you let parents know they have the right to remain silent, the right to secure their home from your unnecessary intrusion unless there is a warrant to do so, and that those things also apply to the children?  Of course not, you're not trained to do so, like a police officer is.  If a PO forgets to tell the criminal his rights, he goes FREE!  How lucky for the criminal.

 

Tea-Time, you are probably a very nice person and really meant well in all your cases.  However, you are still a trained CPS worker and your mindset is set to defend that.  Neither should you expect those of us who have been trained by the system to proceed with caution and tell others to do likewise.  What do you honestly expect?

 

Remember, I am close friends or still in contact with all those different "workers" on CPS cases, including the very Judge I had on my case for over a decade.  The system is broken.  We all know it.  The biggest problem is the secrecy of family court.  The family court needs to be opened to the public and parents ought to be given a right to a trial with jurors.  That would solve a good portion of the need for CPS reform alone.  Do you agree this should happen OR should the family court continue to be concealed?

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Oh I wasn't picking on tea_time or villifying the entire agency, I think everyone should exercise their rights in any situation dealing with government agencies. One can exercise their rights in a respectful polite way (without being combative or rude).



She was talking about me, I believe, Tumble.  wink1.gif

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#83 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 02:44 PM
 
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Quote:
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I remember having a case where someone accused the mom of not having any food for the kids.  She quickly showed me her pantry, I asked the kids about food and that was that. 



Tea-Time, right there.  Do you see the HUGE problem with that statement?  Neither do most people, because they've been trained to just comply, you have nothing to hide, so everything will be okay.  It is "okay" for some parents, but it hasn't been okay with others.  Regardless of whether it will be okay or not, a mere accusation is NOT enough evidence for you to come walking into anyone's home to investigate anything!  Why don't you see that?

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#84 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 03:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvmykiddos03 View Post





Tea-Time, right there.  Do you see the HUGE problem with that statement?  Neither do most people, because they've been trained to just comply, you have nothing to hide, so everything will be okay.  It is "okay" for some parents, but it hasn't been okay with others.  Regardless of whether it will be okay or not, a mere accusation is NOT enough evidence for you to come walking into anyone's home to investigate anything!  Why don't you see that?

RIght! Why should a parent give up their rights because some random person got a hair in their rear and called CPS. Of course there are a lot of instances of actual child abuse but we do not live in the Country of GUILTY until proven INNOCENT. 

 

Bravo Luvmykiddos.
 

 


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#85 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 04:27 PM
 
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Sorry to burst your judgemental bubble but you're jumping to conclusions that "woman said kids were hungry = CPS investigated".  It's not quite that easy, I was just making a quick summary.  Intake looked at different factors and had other collaborating facts before I was sent out to see. In this case the person/people making the call were incorrect, but that was only seen by the investigation.  Same as if it had been a teacher saying "I saw bruises".  Should we not check on those calls b/c it was "just a statement"?  I think that many in this thread have been so burned by the system that they are hell-bent on only seeing the bad.  I am just trying to bring to light that there is more of a balance than you present.  To use your words "why don't you see that".
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvmykiddos03 View Post





Tea-Time, right there.  Do you see the HUGE problem with that statement?  Neither do most people, because they've been trained to just comply, you have nothing to hide, so everything will be okay.  It is "okay" for some parents, but it hasn't been okay with others.  Regardless of whether it will be okay or not, a mere accusation is NOT enough evidence for you to come walking into anyone's home to investigate anything!  Why don't you see that?



 


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#86 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 05:05 PM
 
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I don't know how to break up your quote but I'll try to respond to particular parts.  For the first paragraph: I don't see how it is disturbing to have a red flag if someone is avoiding a investigation or a simple question.  Not only law-abiding parents would "exercise their rights" so would abusing parents with things to hide.  From the onset I don't know which one the family is until I get more information.  Although I always assumed going in that they were as you say "innocent".  So either I get it from the parent, or from other sources, or with the help of the law.  Yes, parent accused of neglect or abuse have a right to a trial.  If they do not agree with the judgements happening in the family court.  If a child is removed or any action is taken with a family it has to first be approved by the court (notwithstanding an emergency removal and even then there is a short time in which the family has to be in court so the child isn't in emergency custody long, and we also had the children with family/friends whenever possible too).  Assuming (which I know is a huge leap) that the judges and court are operating appropriately IMO and experience this falls HIGHLY on the side of the parents.  In other words, the burden of proof was very heavily on the CPS to show abuse, not on the parents to "prove they were innocent".  As I stated before I recognize that there have been too many abuses in the system, especially in certain areas/states.  However, it does not mean that in ALL cases the system is broken and families are being harmed.  To the contrary, families are being helped and children being saved.  

 

I felt the need to comment b/c someone said that "all social workers were two faced".  I also felt that the overall sentiment was that CPS = bad/evil and out to get you.  I was trying to provide a little balance and remove a little of the fear.  If only people with bad experiences post then of course the tenor of the thread becomes quite negative.  

 

Going back to the two-faced comment, yes it was made.  I was simply quoting.  Not coming in with some big personal agenda.  That was your leap.

 

As for my defending CPS "trained to" and all that I am much more than that.  You aren't giving me credit for the professional I am.  I actually am often on the other side, defending the families and specifically children that have been hurt by being thru the system and advocating for them.  I am simply able to provide information to a discussion based on what is going on in it.  If there was another thread saying how fabulous CPS was 100% of the time and how they do no wrong I could easily talk to the other side and provide balance at how they can and do make mistakes and how children are hurt.  

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvmykiddos03 View Post

Tea-Time, I am responding to what you said, which is typical to what an average CPS worker says to defend what they do.  I stand by that.  Your comments about parents who are "resisting" as drawing a "red flag" is disturbing.  A parent who exercises their rights as parents is hardly a reason to draw a "red flag", which is clearly what others have stated here to do and the ONLY reason you would have made that comment to begin with.  Criminals are given more rights than parents.  A criminal has a right to a trial.  Do parents accused of neglect or abuse?  No.  Anyone have a problem with that?  Yet, a parent who wishes to exercise their rights to protect themselves from the whole mess of a system (regardless of how sincere a worker is), is doing to draw a "red flag"?  Come on now.  We can do better than that.

 

 

Likewise, you have made judgments about people here being filled with fear and anti-CPS, based on just a few things they have said.  I've read from those same people that they agree not all CPS workers are corrupt, but in fact, several are very genuine!  No one here has painted the WHOLE system like that, except to say that the WHOLE system is in dire need of reform, to which I undoubtedly agree!  So why did you feel the need to comment if what people have said here, agree with you that the whole system is not that way?

 

I have an idea as to why you started your post and it wasn't to plead with us to do what we're already doing.  You started your whole post with, "Not all CPS case worker are 'two-faced'".  Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see where anyone here said they were "two-faced".  Did anyone make that statement?  I am asking honestly.  Perhaps I missed it.  Regardless, why did you make such a statement, unless you simply felt threatened by the comments here that restrict all those privileges you were given by a CPS handbook manual, not the laws of the land.  You then went on to defend what you did as a CPS worker.

 

Again, back to the criminals.  When they are arrested, they are told their "Miranda Rights".  Do you give parents their "Miranda Rights" when you come to visit their home?  Do you let parents know they have the right to remain silent, the right to secure their home from your unnecessary intrusion unless there is a warrant to do so, and that those things also apply to the children?  Of course not, you're not trained to do so, like a police officer is.  If a PO forgets to tell the criminal his rights, he goes FREE!  How lucky for the criminal.

 

Tea-Time, you are probably a very nice person and really meant well in all your cases.  However, you are still a trained CPS worker and your mindset is set to defend that.  Neither should you expect those of us who have been trained by the system to proceed with caution and tell others to do likewise.  What do you honestly expect?

 

Remember, I am close friends or still in contact with all those different "workers" on CPS cases, including the very Judge I had on my case for over a decade.  The system is broken.  We all know it.  The biggest problem is the secrecy of family court.  The family court needs to be opened to the public and parents ought to be given a right to a trial with jurors.  That would solve a good portion of the need for CPS reform alone.  Do you agree this should happen OR should the family court continue to be concealed?



 


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#87 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 05:07 PM
 
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 I do not trust them AT ALL!! They make me soooo incredibly nervous. They are all two faced and will lie to your face so do not trust them no matter what!! Praying for your situation hun.



 


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#88 of 244 Old 04-04-2011, 05:44 PM
 
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tea_time,  I can certainly understand your bristling at the vey strong anti-cps sentiment here.  However, you have an uphill battle to convince people who have been wrongly accosted/investigated/stripped of their rights and their children that CPS can function as it should without a major overhaul. 

 

I say this with understanding of where you are coming from, but you have to know that some CPS workers will take one look and make some pretty terrifying assumptions.  They will then blatantly fabricate and lie to support their own beliefs.  It is not right, it is not fair, and it is absolutely not universal.  Even though the vast majority of CPS workers are fabulous people, the reality that even one is not, and that that one worker's words carry more weight in a courtroom that the parent's words do is frightening. 

 

I've seen terrible situations, and CPS stepped in well to protect those kids.  I've also seen situations where kids who were in danger were not given the help they should have been given, and I have seen  situations where parents were unjustly investigated and children were wrongly removed.  Sadly, it is a gamble.  People should feel like they can protect themselves within the boundaries of the law without fearing that exercising their constitutional right will raise a red flag. 

 

In a situation where a home is deemed too dirty for children (as an example), the first response should not be removal of the child from the parents, it should be to remove the family- intact- from the home until they are able- with support- to get back on top of things.  I'm absolutely ceratin that it would cost the State a great deal less to hire a cleaning crew for a day and follow up with some return visits here and there than it would to place those kids in foster care even for a few days.  It would also be less scary and disruptive to families and children, and if this was the type of approach, I'm sure more doors would be opened and more investigations closed with families intact. There would be no reason for CPS workers to feel vilified because they would no longer be behaving like villains, kidnapping our children in the name of saving them from the people they love the most, and who in most cases- truly want the best for them. 

 

* edited as I left out a key 'not' in there

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That was me who said that and I stand by my comment. I watched them drag my sister through the mud. The foster mom had an alterior motive. She now loved this little baby girl that she had in her care since infancy and dind't want to lose her. She even tried to give the boy back but keep the little girl. CPS did not try to work with my sister. Every time she jumped through their hoops they built more against her. It was very sad to watch. YES, she was a drunk BUT she did everything possible to get HER kids back!!! The foster mom was believed over my sister and the foster mom had an alterior motive of not losing the little girl she loved so much. Guess what, Her mom loved her too! She went through several years of hell. She cleaned up her act fully! So yes, I think they are 2 faced.

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Oh and btw - everytime they did random drug tests in the last year or so my sister was clean! But because the foster mom said she was drunk when she picked the kids up or whatever the foster mom dreamt up - they believed her.

 

CPS should work with the parents to keep families together more. I am 100% against booze and drugs so I do believe my sister needed HELP but CPS should also realize that not all foster parents are doing the right thing and do lie about the other when they are fearing losing a child they have grown to love. They need to focus more on TRULY helping families in need and not tearing their families apart. I have considered and looked into being a foster parent but this is my worry - it would be very very hard to love a child only to lose them. I dont know if I'm strong enough for that part of it.

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