got a letter from cps, now what? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 9Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#121 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 08:30 AM
 
insidevoice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumble Bumbles View Post

Wow, insidevoice, that's terrible :( I'm so sorry that happened to you. 



It was several years ago, time heals a lot, but it was absolutely a wake up call to me because our rights really are only there to protect us when we choose to exercise them.  I hope that some of the folks who really believe that they are protected because they aren't doing anything wrong never have to experience what I did.  I know that prior to that day I would have agreed with them completely.  I now guard myself, my home and my family more carefully. 

insidevoice is offline  
#122 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 08:32 AM
 
dayiscoming2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,793
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by insidevoice View Post



 

To demonstrate this on a very personal level- I debated posting this before but didn't want to seem to be using scare tactics or to make this too personal.. 

 

After my ex filed a report against me, I went through the same thing your friend did.  I still can't stand to have anything out of order.  Yes, ultimately it was closed, and the fact that he had maliciously filed a spurious report was used against him so I have sole custody, but  it was awful.  The CPS worker used a camera to document 'animal feces' on my couch.  It was a couple plastic hamburgers from DDs play kitchen set.  I had to take them into court to show them to the judge to prove my point, and the CPS worker STILL claimed I was lying.  The judge, happily, saw through her.  They also claimed that they had found her with lice- patently untrue, and only because I jumped through hoops left right and center could I disprove this claim.  Without connections to a few entymologists I wouldn't have had recourse.  Again, the judge was appalled when he saw the information I used to back up my claim. My favorite complaint that the CPS worker lodged was that there were copious quantities of drugs visible on the living room carpet.  In that case, I had just sprinkled a box of that powdered carpet freshener throughout the house and was in the middle of vacuuming when they knocked at the door.  The police officer there even argued on my behalf at the time, but the CPS worker said she was noting it because I was just covering up the drugs that must have been there.  The officer testified on my behalf. 

 

When I didn't want to sign a piece of paper saying that she could send my child anywhere she wanted to, I was threatened that if I didn't I would never see her again.  I stuck to my guns on that one, and she was only released to kinship care for that short while, but it was still horrifying.  Then, when they did take her, they praised me for having such a polite and happy child, and for being so calm and collected to make everything feel safe for her. 

 

It was horrifying.  I should have made them request a warrant, but I figured- Well, I have nothing to hide, they can come right in and see that! There was nothing to hide, and the CPS worker fabricated a report.  Had she shown up without a police officer present I would not have had a chance to refute the claims.  Because he documented everything himself, we were able to show his photos to the judge.  The only things she photographed were shot in such a way as to appear dirty or dangerous (for example the plastic hamburgers she claimed were animal feces, or a patch of white powder on the carpet).  The officer's photos showed the whole room, and the judge was clearly very angry with the CPS worker for her deceptive tactics. 

 

It took forever to sort my life back out, and while we did manage to protect my child from the trauma, I had to deal with horrible flashbacks whenever someone was at the door, and I still live in fear and will sacrifice playtime for a few minutes to maintain a stepford-wife-esque level of clean in our home.   Also, since I work in human services, I have to explain a lot, and background checks show that I have been investigated- that alone prevents me from a few job offers.  A closed case found in your favor can still show up. 
 

 

 

^ that sounds like the kind of experience my family (parents, sister and I) had with CPS. There are at least some malicious ones out there. I would not let a CPS worker in the door without a warrant. Thanks a lot for those who provided some great info on how to handle CPS in this thread. 

 

When CPS showed up to my parents house back in the day. They had a cop with and my dad was arrested on false claims made by one of my sister's friends and my sister when they were interviewed at school. My sister was trying to get out of the house so she could go live with a different friend. I don't think she realized what she was doing as she was a dumb 15 year old at the time. My mom let them in the house as she didn't know any better. They never expected something like that to ever happen. I was interviewed but now I know they had no right to do that. I tried to sound supportive of my family and so did my mom but they took our testimonies and twisted them in ways to say whatever they wanted. It was horrible! Honestly, I'd have been tempted to let them take my sis away forever as she was the one that falsely made accusations. She didn't like having parents and wanted to do what she wanted. My parents eventually got her back after like 4 or 5 months? And they are still being sent medical bills from that time period though my sis was on state insurance and that was all supposed to be covered by the state insurance and my sis was also under state custody so my parents should not have to pay a dime of it. Ugh. 


Happily married Christian SAHM of 2 boys, DD1 uc.jpg, and DD2 July 2013 homebirth.jpg 

 homeschool.gif   novaxnocirc.gif cd.gif   winner.jpg                                       

 

dayiscoming2006 is offline  
#123 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 08:43 AM
 
Tumble Bumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Edited. 

ElizabethE likes this.

Christ-centered loving wife & mama to 2 miracles! One & one . We live simply and mindfully. Expecting another blessing Feb 2015
Tumble Bumbles is offline  
#124 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 09:37 AM
 
moonfirefaery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 3,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Then "you're safe" as in the investigation is over, and you no longer need to worry about CPS intervention. I thought that would be more clear; my apologies...

 

You may encounter one or more judgmental, biased, or even vicious social workers... people are people. That doesn't mean the entire system is out to get your kids and take your rights; they do have to act within the constraints of the law, and they usually do. Even though the system is flawed, it still has to try to work for the good of the children. We can't just not investigate allegations of neglect or abuse, you know? And you can ask for them to produce a warrant if you want. I just wouldn't. And I don't think it's necessary to be this fearful of them.


fambedsingle2.gif Heather, 25, single mom to Corbin, 5, and Orin, 3  uc.jpg  delayedvax.gif  nocirc.gif
Oh how I miss the days of femalesling.GIF  nak.gifcd.gif  
moonfirefaery is offline  
#125 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 09:45 AM
 
CorriJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I'm very sorry that the OP is having to deal with them and be concerned about them. And I do hope everything goes well for her family. 


Wife to a wonderful man, not a mommy yet but looking forward to when we are ready. 
"Love isn't something you find. Love is something that finds you." Loretta Young
CorriJ is offline  
#126 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 10:01 AM
 
Tumble Bumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Edited. 

dayiscoming2006 likes this.

Christ-centered loving wife & mama to 2 miracles! One & one . We live simply and mindfully. Expecting another blessing Feb 2015
Tumble Bumbles is offline  
#127 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 10:11 AM
 
CorriJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Tumble Bumbles -- I wasn't meaning to say that everyone was saying they were bad. Maybe I phrased it wrong.


Wife to a wonderful man, not a mommy yet but looking forward to when we are ready. 
"Love isn't something you find. Love is something that finds you." Loretta Young
CorriJ is offline  
#128 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 11:30 AM
 
moonfirefaery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 3,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Exercising one's right shouldn't equate to fear, suspicion or admittance of guilt. However, there are those who will always wonder, if you have nothing to hide, why not cooperate? Because they don't have your point of view about "protecting their rights." Even if I allow CPS into my home without a warrant, I am still exercising my right...because that IS my right, just as I have the right to request a warrant. You're already a red flag raisin' person if CPS has contacted you; if there was no red flag, they wouldn't have contacted you at all. I don't mind someone coming into my home or speaking to my kids with me present. If they cross the line, I can ask them to leave and come back with a warrant.


fambedsingle2.gif Heather, 25, single mom to Corbin, 5, and Orin, 3  uc.jpg  delayedvax.gif  nocirc.gif
Oh how I miss the days of femalesling.GIF  nak.gifcd.gif  
moonfirefaery is offline  
#129 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 11:40 AM
 
Tumble Bumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Edited. 

yummus and Jynuine like this.

Christ-centered loving wife & mama to 2 miracles! One & one . We live simply and mindfully. Expecting another blessing Feb 2015
Tumble Bumbles is offline  
#130 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 12:22 PM
 
Jynuine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Ladies... if you deny CPS entry you are:

  • NOT admitting guilt
  • Protecting your family
  • Not breaking a law or being 'difficult', even if it might make their job harder

 

By allowing them to come in, even if they are smiling and look friendly and convincing you are:

  • Waiving your right to remain silent (as everything they gather and whatever is said and found will be held against you in a court of law)
  • Giving them authority to proceed with an investigation and therefore determining your worth as a parent on whatever basis they find fit. There is not a rule book or list that determines what they ultimately can remove your children under (although there are the major emergency ones) and the kids can and will be removed for anything the worker deems they do not agree with, however stupid or insignificant. At this point you cannot tell them to leave or prevent them from removing your child from the premesis, even without a warrant because you let them in and waived that right. They can take pictures of your home and cause a scene, inviting more officers over with flashing lights and cameras. The news station might even catch wind of it and do a report on you, EVEN.... if you are totally innocent with 'nothing to hide'.

 

The point is that they are there to build a case- not to exonerate you. You are technically innocent (legally) until you allow them into your home to gather whatever proof they can find to make you guilty- but this does not mean you are not already guilty in their mind. All it takes is anything they might disagree with in your parenting style or how you look or even their personality style. Have you ever read the commentary from readers on online news articles referring to children's issues? People are bloodthirsty. Without having any details of a case they will slit the throat of anyone even under scrutiny of a child abuse organization. Workers can be the same way going on a report, depending on the person.

 

I'm not saying all CPS workers are out to get you.

 

They get up in the morning, take their showers, eat breakfast, go to work, go home at the end and go to bed- just like you and me. But unfortunately there are a whole list of unknown motivations for BECOMING a CPS workers to begin with that you don't know about and the loopholes in accountability are ENDLESS.

Some become workers because they really do have a heart for children and helping families in need. They understand that the Government makes for a POOR parent and the best thing to do is offer a family every resource and help option they can find available to glue them back together. They dont want to have to needlessly tear a family apart and they deem their job as a big responsibility with power on their shoulders not to be taken for granted.

 

Others are on power-trips - some with no kids of their own- who like to assert authority over others with completely unrealistic expectations of what a true loving parent is which is usually void of the parent's rights to raise their child in an alternative state out of the public influence. They feel that they know more about parenting than you, they have taken courses on psychology therefore they are the 'experts' and who are you to question their expertise? Parents who decide to birth their children out of hospitals,  pass up immunizations, home school them, let toddlers run nude during summer in the house or co-sleep with parents- these families are considered 'off-the-grid' to these types of workers and are dangerous because they cannot be controlled or watched.

 

PLEASE do not be naive. I am not at ALL asking you to hate the police or CPS or any government organization- Im simply asking you to armor yourselves with your LEGAL rights as citizens and parents and not blindly think that all government workers are there to help you. The constitution was made to protect ourselves FROM government power.... knowing that abuse of it is SO easy. Arm yourselves with knowledge.

 

Just as you wouldnt send your four yr old down the street today thinking, "Shoot, there's nothing wrong with letting them walk a few blocks to the park themself- I USED to do that as a kid and I turned out fine..." dont blindly think that if you have nothing to hide nothing will be found.

yummus likes this.

 
-Jyn, Blessed mom of Abbie ('99), Gracie ('00), AngelBaby ('01), Danny ('02), Jacob ('03), Eva Bella ('06), Angel-Baby2 ('07), Emmalia ('09), Justus John Mark ('11), Jude Ellias Due 7-16-13
 

Jynuine is offline  
#131 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 12:26 PM
 
KempsMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 854
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Here's my take.  While the majority of CPS agents are good hard working men and women who don't want to remove children from their homes, don't fabricate "evidence" and don't make unreasonable judgments, I KNOW there are some that do.  So to protect my family from the bad seeds, I will require a warrant and an attorney present before I let CPS into my home.  Period. 

yummus likes this.

Heathyr hang.gifBlessed Catholic Wife to DHwheelchair.gif Devoted Mama to DS1 biglaugh.gif(3/17/08) and DS2blowkiss.gif (8/5/2010)familybed1.gifcd.giflactivist.gifribboncesarean.gifx2 
KempsMama is offline  
#132 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 12:41 PM
 
Jynuine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post

You're already a red flag raisin' person if CPS has contacted you; if there was no red flag, they wouldn't have contacted you at all. I don't mind someone coming into my home or speaking to my kids with me present. If they cross the line, I can ask them to leave and come back with a warrant.


A 'red flag raising' person can simply be an wife and/or husband entering into a nasty custody battle. That's all it takes. My neighbor had a friend living with her for a while with his son so that he could be closer while going through a custody battle. The wife was a princess and a drunk, constantly going out to bars and drinking almost every night with her buds- meeting guys and then fighting with her husband, dragging the kids through it before she filed for a divorce. He wasnt perfect but he was a gentleman and only wanted the best for his kiddo.

 

On his visitation weekend she came with a couple of scag friends who the husband had not met yet- banged on his door and demanded to take her son. She was there in all actuality to start a fight and have 'witnesses' state he hit or touched her so that she could file, yet another, CPS report. She had filed 2 previously that were deemed unproveable and were pretty ridiculous- yet CPS refused to investigate her alcoholism. So as my husband went to get the mail, this woman approached him, flipping her blond hair asking him if he wouldn't mind making a statement that her ex husband physically pushed her and that it was her son and she should be able to get him whenever she wanted. My husband had never even met this lady nor did she even know he knew her husband.

 

He ended up on the stand, in court, testifying that this woman was a piece of work and tried co-ercing him into lying. He eventually won part custody, but he was dragged through a financial mudpit to battle it. Did he deserve that?

 

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post I don't mind someone coming into my home or speaking to my kids with me present. If they cross the line, I can ask them to leave and come back with a warrant.
 

 

Nope. Once you let them in, you cannot ask them to leave. Actually you CAN, and they will laugh in your face. CPS coming into your home isn't just to chat about something they heard. You are waiving your right to remain silent and you are giving them authority to take your kids over whatever they want to- even a 'gut' feeling. Once in, they leave when they are ready.... with or without your kids. It's a sad realization but I REALLY really suggest you freshen up on CPS laws so you know the truths of the matter. You are like so many moms I talk to who think that because you refuse an interview in home you are immediately a suspect. They have to provide proof before they can go through an investigation. Putting on the paper that the parent claimed their rights not to allow entry doesn't show as proof. Having a 3 yr old say, "Yeah! Mama went to Target once to play in the toy aisle and left me here..." does, even if it's a totally obvious fictional story.

 

They will ask your child if they are happy- do they have enough toys? If the child says , "No." then they can deem that as a reason to investigate. You think this is a lie? Look it up.

 


 
-Jyn, Blessed mom of Abbie ('99), Gracie ('00), AngelBaby ('01), Danny ('02), Jacob ('03), Eva Bella ('06), Angel-Baby2 ('07), Emmalia ('09), Justus John Mark ('11), Jude Ellias Due 7-16-13
 

Jynuine is offline  
#133 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 01:16 PM
 
zensven42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The coldest place on Earth
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

http://www.hslda.org/

 

Full Article available to HSLDA members only:

http://runawaychildren.tripod.com/id18.html

zensven42 is offline  
#134 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 01:30 PM
 
goldenwillow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In the trees
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X View Post

Seems to me that if you deny them entry you look bad but if you let them in and your house isnt perfect or nearly so then you look bad. To me it is a no win that scares the bejesus outta me.

 

clap.gif
 


Same here.


'09   
goldenwillow is offline  
#135 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 01:32 PM
 
goldenwillow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In the trees
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jynuine View Post

this woman approached him, flipping her blond hair asking him if he wouldn't mind making a statement that her ex husband physically pushed her and that it was her son and she should be able to get him whenever she wanted. My husband had never even met this lady nor did she even know he knew her husband.

 


Not all blonds are like that, lol!  thumb.gif

 

Such a horrible situation. 


'09   
goldenwillow is offline  
#136 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 01:44 PM
 
scottishmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in a little apartment
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post

Exercising one's right shouldn't equate to fear, suspicion or admittance of guilt. However, there are those who will always wonder, if you have nothing to hide, why not cooperate? Because they don't have your point of view about "protecting their rights." Even if I allow CPS into my home without a warrant, I am still exercising my right...because that IS my right, just as I have the right to request a warrant. You're already a red flag raisin' person if CPS has contacted you; if there was no red flag, they wouldn't have contacted you at all. I don't mind someone coming into my home or speaking to my kids with me present. If they cross the line, I can ask them to leave and come back with a warrant.


OK, this is not a judgement on you by any means. I am also a very crunchy mom, but honestly, do you really think that you are a typical maintreem mom whose lifestyle may not raise some eyebrows. I don't know you at all, but just looking at your signature I see that you share a bed with one or more of your children. Do your kids have their own beds? I see you delay vaccines. Is your pediatrician totally on board with this, or did you have to fight with him or her a bit? You have or will give birth outside of a hospital without a midwife or doctor present. I don't think that's a big deal, but but do you really believe that your average American would think " oh well, it's her body, her choice". As far as your home, do you ever leave laundry in your dryer for a day or two? I do that all the time. If you have a cat, do you scoop the litter every time he poops? I don't. Do you ever leave an empty plate on your dining room table because you get distracted by your two children? I do. Do you ever run low on staples or other food? Have you ever had issues with bedbugs, cockroaches, mice etc? These things that CPS workers can use against you, even take your kids over. I think a lot of people have the impression that your kids with only be removed if you are on crack, but that may not be the case. Of course, I'm sure that most CPS workers would think my house is fine, but I don't know that for sure. They may have a real problem with my housekeeping skills. The point is that I don't know and I sure as heck wouldn't want to chance it. As far as getting a warrant, it isn't so easy to do. The CPS worker has to go to a judge and get that warrant, which means they need a lot more evidence than "her neighbor said she let's her kids run around unsupervised" or "her angry ex husband says she doesn't feed the kids" or whatever.
MamaofLiam and ElizabethE like this.

Wife to amazing dh, mama to dd 12/08
scottishmommy is offline  
#137 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 02:22 PM
 
Valerie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 347
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A couple things come to mind.... I really am a lawyer, and I believe::

1. That no one should take legal advice from anyone on this list, including myself -- appropriate and accurate legal advice should be given by a licensed attorney, and depends on the details of a particular, unique situation, as well as a thorough understanding of how the system actually works; and

2. That in order to find a good lawyer to deal with a CPS situation (in response to a request from a previous poster) one should consider 1) how much experience the lawyer has had with CPS; 2) how well you "click" with the lawyer -- does he/she listen to you? Does he/she seem to care? Does he/she return your phone calls and emails promptly? In an ermegency, you want to be able to contact this person quickly! 3) the money end of it -- how much does the lawyer want to be paid, and how does he/she want it? Is he/she willing to work with you on financial stuff? Certainly a lawyer deserves to be paid for the work they do, but I freely admit that some of my brothers/sisters are a bit heavy-handed with their money issues; 4) try to get a referral from a friend or relative if possible -- picking a lawyer from the Yellow Pages can be a crap shoot.

3. Finally, it is interesting that this subject has come up -- I am in the process of writing a brochure (on behalf of the Illinois Coalition of CPMs) for parents who transfer to a hospital during or after a planned homebirth. It will cover legal rights, the basis for those rights, and how to respond to threats from hospital personnel.

Valerie
kythe and MamaofLiam like this.
Valerie is offline  
#138 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 02:23 PM
 
ElizabethE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by tea_time View Post

Not all CPS Case Workers are "two faced".  They're also not all Social Workers but that's a different issue.

 

As a prior CPS Social Worker I can tell you that a lot of resistance would be a red flag for me.  But then again, we never sent letters first.  We only went to do investigations if our risk matrix came out that the child was at risk of harm due to the report.  I know that all states are not doing a great job in their CPS departments, but this thread really seems to be demonizing everyone nationwide.  In my case I visited children at schools w/out parental consent (having a active investigation was enough) and also looked at homes (with parent's consent).  No one ever refused me.  I did not remove children without an officer present (they were the actual ones taking custody, CPS workers could not legally do it themselves).  If a house looked unsafe (drug items around, child visibly injured, parent high/intoxicated, known abuser present (as in sex abuse cases), etc then we contacted the police to come take custody.

 

In your case OP the complaint may be due to your UC, but it could be a million other things.  Since no one came immediately to your door you are probably not high on their list.  Perhaps they have a community support program (part of CPS but there to give supportive services to parents that are deemed borderline for issues).  Not that you would qualify of course, but they may be assessing you for the program based on someone's report.

 

I felt the need to add to this thread b/c it was SO anti-CPS and very fear based.  I realize that people have had bad experiences but please don't paint the whole system that way.  I was a good CPS worker who genuinely cared about her families that I helped.  I worked with many people who were the same way.


You're completely misconstruing this thread, and so are the people who gave their obligatory thumbs up in support.

 

This is not intended to be an ANTI cps thread, or a "fear based" thread. This is something we all have to face and consider and think about in the reality of our UCing. We have stories and reasons to "fear" repercussions, and are discussing them in a means to hopefully dissolve those "fears". No one here is saying all CPS are evil. Most of us seem to believe that CPS is relatively harmless and sometimes do nothing to a fault. Missed those parts?

 

I find it funny that people come in here and nitpick at what they can, seemingly just for the sake of argument.  If we didn't get GBS tested, oh man, watch out! We want to see our babies dead or in the NICU! But, if we are concerned about very real legalities that we may face in our unconventional health care choices, we are being too "fear based"???? You can't have it both ways. From your eyes we have everything to be afraid of in UC. You should be championing our fear in the hopes that it would dissuade us from UCing.

 

In any case, ultimate fail! :)

 


treehugger.gifhippie.gifhomeschool.gifnovaxnocirc.gif
Vegetarian Spiritual wife to Joshua (HS sweetheart, together since 1999); mother of Eve (Dec 2003)  Cian (March 2009), and Sage (March 2011)! <--uc.jpg!
geek.gifMy book about what I learned from my experiences with childbirth was published April 2011. om.gif
ElizabethE is offline  
#139 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 02:31 PM
 
ElizabethE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvmykiddos03 View Post

 

Likewise, you have made judgments about people here being filled with fear and anti-CPS, based on just a few things they have said. 

 

[this is Elizabeth, I'm trapped in the gray box, but:]

yeahthat.gif

And to those who feel Tea Time and others in support are being unbiased, read between the lines. This is not some innocent or friendly discussion occurring here from our visitors.

Luvmykiddos03 likes this.

treehugger.gifhippie.gifhomeschool.gifnovaxnocirc.gif
Vegetarian Spiritual wife to Joshua (HS sweetheart, together since 1999); mother of Eve (Dec 2003)  Cian (March 2009), and Sage (March 2011)! <--uc.jpg!
geek.gifMy book about what I learned from my experiences with childbirth was published April 2011. om.gif
ElizabethE is offline  
#140 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 02:40 PM
 
ElizabethE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post

You're right. They do, according to the law. It is not, however, against the law for them to ask you to enter your home. And if they wanted to enter mine, I'd jump at the chance to immediately exonerate myself.



You're being idealistic here. Not all CPS are heroes, and this is not the perfect world. I see where you are coming from and it's honorable in intention, but you have to recognize that some people ARE out to get you. Not everyone is your friend. :(


treehugger.gifhippie.gifhomeschool.gifnovaxnocirc.gif
Vegetarian Spiritual wife to Joshua (HS sweetheart, together since 1999); mother of Eve (Dec 2003)  Cian (March 2009), and Sage (March 2011)! <--uc.jpg!
geek.gifMy book about what I learned from my experiences with childbirth was published April 2011. om.gif
ElizabethE is offline  
#141 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 03:27 PM
 
moonfirefaery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 3,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I'm not being idealistic; I'm being realistic. I don't think there are enough people from CPS out to get me that I should be worried. I have never encountered more than minor opposition to my choices and certainly not enough to have any fear of persecution.

 

scottishmommy - Yes, my children have their own beds; no, I don't have to fight my pediatrician. Yes, I have a legally protected right to my birth choices. CPS doesn't take children because there are clothes in the washer & dryer or poops in the litter box or a plate on the table, but generally, no. I don't have any pests in my home, just a lazy old dog. I'm capable of standing my ground and explaining my decisions.

 

Honestly, I AM the typical parent to most people. They are usually surprised when they find out I had a UC, or cosleep, or am anti-circ. And when I explain myself, I rarely encounter any judgement. Maybe I am just living a charmed life but I really doubt it. I don't get much flack for my lifestyle at all.


fambedsingle2.gif Heather, 25, single mom to Corbin, 5, and Orin, 3  uc.jpg  delayedvax.gif  nocirc.gif
Oh how I miss the days of femalesling.GIF  nak.gifcd.gif  
moonfirefaery is offline  
#142 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 03:37 PM
 
moonfirefaery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 3,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I sure would like to see some proof, in legal print, that CPS has the right to stay in my home, against my will, simply because I voluntarily let them in. It is my home; if you are there by my consent, I have the right to revoke my consent and let you leave, unless you have a warrant.

 

Moreover, I have no idea what else might have been going on in those situations you are describing. There could have been abuse, neglect, or other issues that you may be unaware of. I doubt that CPS builds a case based on "mom left a dish on the table" and "baby crawls into bed with mommy in the middle of the night." I also don't hold those experiences as typical and standard.


fambedsingle2.gif Heather, 25, single mom to Corbin, 5, and Orin, 3  uc.jpg  delayedvax.gif  nocirc.gif
Oh how I miss the days of femalesling.GIF  nak.gifcd.gif  
moonfirefaery is offline  
#143 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 03:46 PM
 
ElizabethE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post

I'm not being idealistic; I'm being realistic. I don't think there are enough people from CPS out to get me that I should be worried. It doesn't have to be enough people, sometimes all it takes is one. I have never encountered more than minor opposition to my choices and certainly not enough to have any fear of persecution. I'm kind of a take charge ball buster myself, so usually I don't find anybody who's a match for me, either... but, no fear of persecution? Why the hell not? :) People must be a lot nicer where you're at.

 

scottishmommy - Yes, my children have their own beds; no, I don't have to fight my pediatrician. Yes, I have a legally protected right to my birth choices. CPS doesn't take children because there are clothes in the washer & dryer or poops in the litter box or a plate on the table, but generally, no. I don't have any pests in my home, just a lazy old dog. I'm capable of standing my ground and explaining my decisions.

 

Honestly, I AM the typical parent to most people. I don't know if any of us here are that. confused.gif They are usually surprised when they find out I had a UC, or cosleep, or am anti-circ. And when I explain myself, I rarely encounter any judgement. Maybe I am just living a charmed life but I really doubt it. I don't get much flack for my lifestyle at all.

People usually don't give me flack because they can sense I would put the smackdown on them. But, I still have a healthy fear of authority even IF I exude it myself. That's why I try to keep respectful and play by the rules, and that suits me just fine, usually. So far, so good?
 

 


treehugger.gifhippie.gifhomeschool.gifnovaxnocirc.gif
Vegetarian Spiritual wife to Joshua (HS sweetheart, together since 1999); mother of Eve (Dec 2003)  Cian (March 2009), and Sage (March 2011)! <--uc.jpg!
geek.gifMy book about what I learned from my experiences with childbirth was published April 2011. om.gif
ElizabethE is offline  
#144 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 04:29 PM
 
Tumble Bumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Yes, because it would cause no "red flags" whatsoever to invite CPS into your home, then when they ask a question you don't like or try to look somewhere you haven't approved of, to quickly usher them out of your house and insist they get a warrant eyesroll.gif

 

I just prefer to bypass that all together (because chances are they would ask a question I felt I didn't have to answer to want to look in a place I felt too personal) and actually exercise the rights I wish to keep.

 

I guess if you ever encounter that situation (and I wouldn't wish that on any loving, involved parent), you can feel free to roll the dice and allow someone to enter your home without cause or warrant, waiving your rights and allowing them to conduct an investigation with no checks and balances. That's totally your right, to waive your rights -- because even if they leave in 15 minutes and eventually "close the case", make no mistake that once they have entered your home they are conducting an investigation. If one is totally okay with one party having all the allowances while another party (you) have waived your rights... go for it, but I can tell you there is not one lawyer worth a roll of quarters who would advise someone agree to a search or interviews with children without a warrant... innocent or not.

 

I said in my other reply I don't know how CPS specifically is mandated in that regard, but with the police -- if you invite them into your home without a warrant, you cannot just "tell" them to leave and get one when you're done talkin'. You would then be "impeding an investigation" (or they could envoke that, rather) and they leave when they're good and ready. If you're 100% certain CPS isn't entitled to work within the same framework -- feel free to invite them in without a warrant, then tell them to leave if they (as you say) "cross the line" -- but by that time, they will have had enough evidence (because you've let them in then refused to cooperate, which makes no sense) to obtain a warrant.

 

If people would like to use the constitution as no more than toilet tissue, that's their business... I prefer to actually use the rights contained therein to my benefit, as intended when it was written.

dayiscoming2006 likes this.

Christ-centered loving wife & mama to 2 miracles! One & one . We live simply and mindfully. Expecting another blessing Feb 2015
Tumble Bumbles is offline  
#145 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 04:36 PM
 
sosurreal09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 3,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

How is it going OP?


 Young born-again mama and loving wife peace.gif to DH jammin.gif and SAHP to two crazy girls dust.gifwehomebirth.jpgfly-by-nursing2.gifslinggirl.giffamilybed1.gif and believe gd.giflactivist.gif  signcirc1.gif !

sosurreal09 is offline  
#146 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 04:44 PM
 
Tumble Bumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Yeah let's get back to the OP -- In her OP she says the letter said:

 

 

Quote:

A report has been received requesting that we complete an assesment regarding your family and your new baby. Please contact me as soon as possible 

(bolding mine)

 

Basically it says, someone called telling us we should look into you (no facts or evidence). Please contact us. That is zero evidence, zero. That's the agency letting the OP know someone called them. They have no reason to assess the family, no evidence to warrant assessment, no actual warrant (because of no evidence) to actually look into them. They likely sent a letter so no one could say they "didn't do anything".

 

In that case I would have had a lawyer draft a letter to the agency letting them know we are honoring their request that we contact the agency and wish to know the details of the actual complaint (which is the legal right of the accused, though they don't have to reveal who actually complained). Depending on the nature of the complaint, the lawyer would proceed from there. Seeing as it said "new baby" in the letter, it's likley about the UC -- which is not illegal. CPS is only there to investigate and intervene in cases of abuse and neglect, which are illegal practices,

 

What's the case here and why exactly should the OP allow these people in her home since she has done nothing illegal?

dayiscoming2006 likes this.

Christ-centered loving wife & mama to 2 miracles! One & one . We live simply and mindfully. Expecting another blessing Feb 2015
Tumble Bumbles is offline  
#147 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 04:46 PM
 
eclipse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Mexico
Posts: 7,862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As someone who was removed from my home as a child by CPS for bogus reasons, I would never let CPS in my house without a warrant. I was 8 years old, but I still remember the. . .well, interrogation I got and how the SW interviewing me tried to trip me up and get me to say things that weren't true and seemed to be deliberately misinterpreting things I was saying. Thankfully, I was only away from home for a week or so, but it was still one of the most traumatic experiences of my life, up there with being raped when I was in college. Not all CPS workers are bad people (in fact, most of them aren't and I don't even think the ones involved in my case were bad people, but some were certainly misinformed and misguided), but the risks are too high for me to just assume that the person who shows up at my door is rational.

I don't live in the US anymore and, sadly, there are children living in such bad circumstances here that I doubt anyone would worry at all about a baby being born at home.
eclipse is offline  
#148 of 244 Old 04-05-2011, 08:47 PM
 
tea_time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynuine View Post

 

The point is that they are there to build a case- not to exonerate you. You are technically innocent (legally) until you allow them into your home to gather whatever proof they can find to make you guilty- but this does not mean you are not already guilty in their mind. All it takes is anything they might disagree with in your parenting style or how you look or even their personality style. Have you ever read the commentary from readers on online news articles referring to children's issues? People are bloodthirsty. Without having any details of a case they will slit the throat of anyone even under scrutiny of a child abuse organization. Workers can be the same way going on a report, depending on the person.

 

I'm not saying all CPS workers are out to get you.

 

 

 

Bolding mine, and I did remove a lot of your post to keep this one shorter. I agreed with pretty much everything you wrote, except that one part.  There may be workers looking to "build a case" but when I worked in CPS I was doing the opposite.  I wanted very much (and was mandated) to show that the child/family did not need interventions, or if they did that they be the least restrictive as possible.  I only "built my case" as you say once it was determined that there was in fact abuse.  And at that time I was also building a strengths-based case for the parent/family to work at getting things back to where CPS wasn't involved.  Clearly in your experience that did not happen as you had what appears to be HORRIFIC workers who badly used their "power" and worked in a corrupt at worst or negligent at best system.  I am sorry for the pain you experienced (and your children).  Stories like yours are so horrible to hear!  
 

 


Semi-crunchy Momma to a 4 year old girl and a baby girl born in July of 2011.

tea_time is offline  
#149 of 244 Old 04-06-2011, 04:55 AM
 
moonfirefaery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 3,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

They may not be there to exonerate me, but I'd be letting them in to exonerate myself--because they're not going to find anything in this house.

 

And I doubt asking them to leave if they get too ridiculous with their search would raise any more suspicious red flags than flat out denying them entry altogether :P


fambedsingle2.gif Heather, 25, single mom to Corbin, 5, and Orin, 3  uc.jpg  delayedvax.gif  nocirc.gif
Oh how I miss the days of femalesling.GIF  nak.gifcd.gif  
moonfirefaery is offline  
#150 of 244 Old 04-06-2011, 05:29 AM
 
Tumble Bumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

This has become a circular (and tiresome) conversation. There is absolutely nothing to find in my home either. That isnt, and has never been, the point.

 

The point is, you're totally comfortable waiving your rights to allow a government agency free reign over your home and children for as long as necessary to "prove" your innocence. I am equally as innocent, only I would choose to actually exercise my right to due process in order that said government agency actually earn the salaries my tax dollars are paying -- putting the burden on them to prove my alleged "guilt" rather than on "me", an innocent person, to prove my innocence. That's how it works in the US. When you're on trial (and CPS knocking on your door is a bit like that, because they wouldn't be there without having an accusation of sorts) the burden is on the accuser to prove your guilt, not the other way around.

 

You're absolutely within your rights to waive your rights and I hope if it ever came down to it you get a Mary Poppins-esque worker who floats through your home on a cloud with a heart of gold seeing only the wonderful and caring mother I'm sure you are and nothing more. If that's not the case though, I hope your confidence in the agency and in the system is enough to protect yourself and your children -- because you certainly won't have the rights you've waived.

 


 


Christ-centered loving wife & mama to 2 miracles! One & one . We live simply and mindfully. Expecting another blessing Feb 2015
Tumble Bumbles is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off