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#61 of 123 Old 05-30-2011, 02:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lemonapple View Post

I think just about everyone believes in some level of natural instinct/intuition...EXCEPT (seemingly) when it comes to taking charge of your own birth. I mean, most of parenting...particularly the infant years is nearly ALL instinct/intuition. 



That's what I mean. If you don't, it's scary. I mean, at some point you are going to have to be trusted alone at home with your infant. If you can't trust yourself or be trusted in birth, or directly after birth, when ever should you be trusted?


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#62 of 123 Old 05-30-2011, 02:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jane93 View Post


 

However, the idea that you can have intuition for matters that have (or may have) no signal -- whether the baby's cord is wrapped around its neck, whether the baby is too large to pass through the pelvic outlet, whether the baby may have S-D, vasa previa, eclampsia, etc. -- that is either intuition as the equivalent of religious belief or a belief in ESP.


The intuition IS the signal. It's a sense just as touch or sight is. If you don't believe you have it or have chosen to tune yours out is of no consequence to us in our UCing experiences, which are very real with or without your approval.

 

BTW, my baby's cord was wrapped around its neck-- twice-- which is actually quite common as not exactly always the emergency we think it is (believe it or not!). However, intuitively something did tell me to push at a stage when I really had previously wanted to take it slower. That may or may not be connected, and I may never know because the result was a happy and healthy baby and mother. This perhaps illustrates an example of how plenty of women use intuition during labor and oftentimes it actually proves beneficial. If you spent some time reading some UC stories you'd probably find lots of instances of intuition at work. Of course, you could just choose to laugh it off, because it doesn't prove anything to you, does it?

 


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...my baby's cord was wrapped around its neck-- twice-- which is actually quite common as not exactly always the emergency we think it is (believe it or not!). However, intuitively something did tell me to push at a stage when I really had previously wanted to take it slower. That may or may not be connected, and I may never know because the result was a happy and healthy baby and mother. 


wow. that is awesome.  I think you were definitely in tune there.  

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#64 of 123 Old 05-30-2011, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That's what I mean. If you don't, it's scary. I mean, at some point you are going to have to be trusted alone at home with your infant. If you can't trust yourself or be trusted in birth, or directly after birth, when ever should you be trusted?

As someone who really has had about NO reason since 2004 to trust herself or her body or her intuition about birth, this reads a bit harsh.  I'm planning to prove myself (and all other naysayers) wrong in a few weeks, but if not . . . it has nothing to do with me being trustworthy or not.  ;\
 

 


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#65 of 123 Old 05-30-2011, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Jane93 View Post
However, the idea that you can have intuition for matters that have (or may have) no signal -- whether the baby's cord is wrapped around its neck, whether the baby is too large to pass through the pelvic outlet, whether the baby may have S-D, vasa previa, eclampsia, etc. -- that is either intuition as the equivalent of religious belief or a belief in ESP.

Cord wrapped - not always a problem and has nothing to do with UC

Baby too large - rare, usually BS, CPD diagnosis is usually bogus and due more to medical overmanagement and/or less optimal fetal positioning and/or mom stuck in bed on her back; has nothing to do with UC

SD - there are ways to manage SD (not always, of course); a common maneuver was named after a famous MIDWIFE; has nothing to do with UC

Previa - often symptomatic; has nothing to to do with UC; complete previa is a no brainer for turning to medical management

Eclampsia - has pretty obvious markers; has nothing to do with UC

I'm not saying that any of these conditions might not rule someone out of UC, but it's really a case by case thing that families decide on their own.

 

No offense, but I'm not sure how this relates to the discussion at hand.
 

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OP I have noticed exactly what you describe as well. I would say that what you are seeing is not a lack of UCers trusting themselves to birth, but rather most people here realizing that if they even hint at the notion they will be accused of being full of BS by the anti-UCers (who I still can't figure why are even on a UC forum- except to spread hate). This thread, case and point. So everyone seems to be toning things down to the bare minimum of feelings when they reply to topics, and focusing on facts to avoid pointless debates.

 

This could have been such a beautiful thread and I was really looking forward to hearing more about how the more experienced UCers felt about trusting birth and the whole process and how they felt about the role of the mother's instinct in birth. As I have had similar questions to the OP. But now its been railroaded again by the haters. I just find it sad that some people honestly have nothing better to do than hang out on forums which discuss things they don't agree with so they can criticize and start arguments....

I'm fine with the 'toning down;' wouldn't say that it hasn't kept a few side fires from sprouting up, but that's ok too.

This still can be a beautiful thread, and I've learned a lot from it!!!!
 

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Anyone care to share real-life examples of how your intuition served you well, either during pregnancy and birth or just in general? Examples of your intuition failing you, or you not listening to your intuition, are also great. It probably won't do anything to convince nay-sayers that intuition exists, but it could be pretty inspiring.

 

Was at a hotel waiting in the car with my 2yo while MIL checked us in.  She had the keys; all 4 doors were unlocked; late at night.  I saw a guy walking.  I *knew* he was headed towards me once he noticed me in the car.  Should I have locked the car doors manually?  Perhaps - I had plenty of time to do so.  That would have showed him I was afraid.  Instead, as he was about to open my freaking car door, I exploded out of the car holding my child and started screaming at him.  He ran away probably terrified of the idiot crazy woman jumping out of a car in the middle of the night screaming.  Was that the safest decision I could have made?  Perhaps no.  Perhaps if I had locked my car doors and showed him how scared I was, he'd have broken the glass and grabbed at us or pulled a gun.  Who knows.  I followed my intuition, stood my ground, scared the idiot off.  And then I cried.
 

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Originally Posted by lemonapple View Post

I think just about everyone believes in some level of natural instinct/intuition...EXCEPT (seemingly) when it comes to taking charge of your own birth. I mean, most of parenting...particularly the infant years is nearly ALL instinct/intuition. 


Yes, 'we' have been sabotaged against ourselves.  We've been socialized, trained NOT to participate in our own health care concerns, particularly as it relates to our female parts.  Motherhood Lost is actually a really great read if you're interested in subversion of the female body.

 

Speaking of natural instinct / intuition . . . both my husband and I sometimes wonder if there was an intuitive reason Baby B flipped breech at 33w and Baby A flipped breech at 37w.  Perhaps they were 'saving' me from some sort of poor outcome related to vaginal birth or maybe that was God's protection somehow.  Or perhaps it was just bad luck.  Some of my more 'extreme' VBAC advocate friends probably have labeled me as someone who has a 'higher tolerance' (yeah, that's actually been said on that particular forum) for cesarean.  Dunno.  Seemed like the right decision at the time considering that breech birth hasn't been in the scope of practice in my community for 10 years or more - not that it doesn't happen . . . but I don't trust these people to safely do it.

 

And for me, natural instinct / intuition is spiritually based.  I don't think it has to be spiritually based, but I know how God speaks to me.  I don't always recognize it at the time, but God does show me the way.  Many many UCers are quite spiritual and/or faithful whether we're talking about God, Goddess, or just 'self.'

 


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#66 of 123 Old 05-31-2011, 01:09 AM
 
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Cord wrapped - not always a problem and has nothing to do with UC

Baby too large - rare, usually BS, CPD diagnosis is usually bogus and due more to medical overmanagement and/or less optimal fetal positioning and/or mom stuck in bed on her back; has nothing to do with UC

SD - there are ways to manage SD (not always, of course); a common maneuver was named after a famous MIDWIFE; has nothing to do with UC

Previa - often symptomatic; has nothing to to do with UC; complete previa is a no brainer for turning to medical management

Eclampsia - has pretty obvious markers; has nothing to do with UC

I'm not saying that any of these conditions might not rule someone out of UC, but it's really a case by case thing that families decide on their own.

 

 

Was at a hotel waiting in the car with my 2yo while MIL checked us in.  She had the keys; all 4 doors were unlocked; late at night.  I saw a guy walking.  I *knew* he was headed towards me once he noticed me in the car.  Should I have locked the car doors manually?  Perhaps - I had plenty of time to do so.  That would have showed him I was afraid.  Instead, as he was about to open my freaking car door, I exploded out of the car holding my child and started screaming at him.  He ran away probably terrified of the idiot crazy woman jumping out of a car in the middle of the night screaming.  Was that the safest decision I could have made?  Perhaps no.  Perhaps if I had locked my car doors and showed him how scared I was, he'd have broken the glass and grabbed at us or pulled a gun.  Who knows.  I followed my intuition, stood my ground, scared the idiot off.  And then I cried.
 



That experience must have been scary! Good for you for turning into a Mama Bear and scaring HIM off!
 

As for the complications mentioned, some are obviously recognized by either physical symptoms or medical care. Others can turn out not to be complications at all in spite of medical care, and for others you'd need intuition to recognize them. Women who are able to move into the birth positions they are most comfortable with might be preventing complications by using their intuition. Or maybe it's not intuition - the position that feels best is also the one that allows the baby out most easily?


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#67 of 123 Old 05-31-2011, 06:10 AM
 
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My babies cord was around his neck at my midwife attended birth. No drama at all. The midwife told me to take it off- which I was already doing instinctively before the words even left her mouth.

 

How do doctors these days diagnose a cord around the neck before seeing it? Do they have a magic cord detector wand?

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Originally Posted by MittensKittens View Post

Women who are able to move into the birth positions they are most comfortable with might be preventing complications by using their intuition. Or maybe it's not intuition - the position that feels best is also the one that allows the baby out most easily?


Yes, what is intuition anyway? I tend to think that in birth types of situations it might be unconscious interpretations of subtle physical cues. The same way we interpret the physical cues of others without conceptualizing it - why wouldn't our brains interpret our own physical cues without conceptualizing them? Sort of like when you're craving something and later you find out it was exactly what you needed at the time. Is that intuition, or was it your brain associating the needed nutrient with a particular food and therefore creating the desire for it? Or are they the same thing?
 

 

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How do doctors these days diagnose a cord around the neck before seeing it? Do they have a magic cord detector wand?


 

By feeling for it. As far as I understand that is what midwives do too.
 

 


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#69 of 123 Old 05-31-2011, 09:41 AM
 
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As someone who really has had about NO reason since 2004 to trust herself or her body or her intuition about birth, this reads a bit harsh.  I'm planning to prove myself (and all other naysayers) wrong in a few weeks, but if not . . . it has nothing to do with me being trustworthy or not.  ;\
 

 


Sorry Kimberly. Trust me, that's not at all what I meant to convey to you. I'm simply pointing out that if we don't ever feel that we can let a mother trust herself in birth, where do we draw that line? Is it safe after birth? Is it safe a few days after birth? And who makes these rules?

 

In other words, it's like-- if you think women are sooooo untrustworthy in birth, then what is it about them that is trustworthy in motherhood?

 

I hope that was in some way different and clarified, to you. :/  :) It's about hope, and faith... not really about distrust or lack of belief in you or anyone else.

 


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By feeling for it. As far as I understand that is what midwives do too.
 

 


Sure, but I think the point Logan brings to light is an excellent one. Just HOW differently is the cord handled by pros? And just HOW critical is it? More often than not, it is painted as far scarier than it actually is. The truth is really that it is simpler and more manageable than they'd have us believe, and that we are doing ourselves the same as most professionals would do in our situation. We can handle it. :)

 


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Sure, but I think the point Logan brings to light is an excellent one. Just HOW differently is the cord handled by pros? And just HOW critical is it? More often than not, it is painted as far scarier than it actually is. The truth is really that it is simpler and more manageable than they'd have us believe, and that we are doing ourselves the same as most professionals would do in our situation. We can handle it. :)

 

 

I agree smile.gif I was just answering the specific question.
 

 


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Sorry Kimberly. Trust me, that's not at all what I meant to convey to you. I'm simply pointing out that if we don't ever feel that we can let a mother trust herself in birth, where do we draw that line? Is it safe after birth? Is it safe a few days after birth? And who makes these rules?

 

No prob, Elizabeth.  I didn't think you meant for it to sound that way . . . but just wanted to point out that it could.  Ya know?


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My babies cord was around his neck at my midwife attended birth. No drama at all. The midwife told me to take it off- which I was already doing instinctively before the words even left her mouth.

 

How do doctors these days diagnose a cord around the neck before seeing it? Do they have a magic cord detector wand?



With fetal monitoring you would see decels in the fetal heartrate.  Decels are normal, but its where they occur in a contraction and how long it takes to recover after the contraction ends that would indicate a cord issue.  


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#74 of 123 Old 05-31-2011, 08:38 PM
 
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Sorry guys it wasn't really a genuine question :) In the case of cord problems you would either have signs of it before (like heart rate) or if the baby was born already then it would be pretty obvious if it was an issue or not. But I'm uncertain how either would be different in a hospital. Only that a c-section/resuscitation would likely come faster....but in that case we are talking about being anti-homebirth as well and I really don't see how that would be relevant in this forum. I don't see why UCers are unable to monitor the heart rate if they wish to do so. My point was just that I don't think the doctors have some magic cord remedy that UCers aren't able to possess. winky.gif

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"My point was just that I don't think the doctors have some magic cord remedy that UCers aren't able to possess. "

 

Unless you are planning to personally perform your own c-section, I would have to disagree with that statement.  Cord issues can cause (as the poster above indicated) fetal distress, which will become apparent in an appropriately monitoring labor and if appropriate, a c-section can resolve the issue.

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#76 of 123 Old 06-01-2011, 03:58 PM
 
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Sorry, cord *detecting* remedy. Again, you are talking about being against homebirth entirely, in which case....why are you here? shrug.gif

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I've always been one to support the "riskiest" women on a board -- with a great deal of flack -- because I believe that if a woman is given full support in her process of choosing, she will choose rightly for herself in every circumstance. I believe in a woman's inherent capacity to make good decisions for herself (and her infant, her family, her community). I may not like or agree with her decision, but I ultimately support her decision.

 


While I've never had a UC, I want to say "thank you". This post is helping me clarify some stuff in my head. And, I totally agree with you...even though I've demonstrated a woeful lack of said capacity to make good decisions for myself!

 


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Going to scrub this - I need to stop posting before I stop to think...


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Originally Posted by MittensKittens View Post

Anyone care to share real-life examples of how your intuition served you well, either during pregnancy and birth or just in general? Examples of your intuition failing you, or you not listening to your intuition, are also great. It probably won't do anything to convince nay-sayers that intuition exists, but it could be pretty inspiring.

 

During both pregnancies, I "knew" was sex my baby was.

 

I was sure ds1 was a boy, and almost as sure that dd2 was a girl. I had no idea with the other three. I was never sure and wrong, though.

 

Your experiences?

 

*sigh*

Okay - birth-related...and painful. My gut feeling when I had been in labour with Aaron for a while was that something was wrong. I was so terrified of being emotionally abused in the hospital (again) that I didn't listen to it, and I hid out in the birth pool for hours before finally transferring...very reluctantly. Long story, short form: I ultimately ended up with a crash c-section and a dead son.



 


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#80 of 123 Old 06-01-2011, 09:31 PM
 
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Jane, for me, the need for a c-section is quite possibly the only reason to go to a hospital for birth. And of course, you know just how rare I think that could actually be.

 

For the cord issues though, when trying and allowed to labor vaginally, there isn't any magic way the cord is handled in-hospital that we could not do for ourselves. That is the point being made here, whether you can personally get behind that or not.

 

If any of us notices either intuitively or through our own monitoring (some exactly the same as a midwife would be doing) during labor that there is a problem, we are going to the hospital.


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#81 of 123 Old 06-01-2011, 09:33 PM
 
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Lisa, I am so sorry that happened to you.


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#82 of 123 Old 06-01-2011, 10:59 PM
 
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"I think just about everyone believes in some level of natural instinct/intuition...EXCEPT (seemingly) when it comes to taking charge of your own birth. I mean, most of parenting...particularly the infant years is nearly ALL instinct/intuition."

 

I disagree with that strongly.  I have a friend who is a pediatrics nurse -- you would think not feeding your 4 week old chocolate milk or coca-cola would be instinctual, but evidently its not.  For some people, avoiding shaking their baby is not instinctual.  For others, how to soothe a colickly baby is not instinctual.  The safest way for a baby to sleep per SIDS recommendations is not instinctual.

 

In fact, how much of the care you give your children is not instinctual but rather based on seeing your relatives and friends caring for their children, watching child care on TV, etc? You may think its instinctual, but I bet it is largely modelled by your cultural exposures.

 

I saw the Happiest Baby on the Block DVD and found it very helpful.  Some of his ideas seem apparent -- but I would not have had the instinct to swaddle my baby tightly, or to hold it on its side (rather than back) and while I found humming/shushing to be something I did rather automatically with my babies, I never would have done it at a sufficient volume without seeing the DVD.  Guess I failed my earth mother test.

 

If birth and infant care is so instinctual why is there like 5,000,000 posts on the various related forums here? 

 

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#83 of 123 Old 06-01-2011, 11:31 PM
 
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Actually, parenting is mostly learned through the environment.  That's the problem.  We have fewer and fewer good parenting models out in the USA.  Certain demographics/populations are more susceptible than others.

 

One more reason it's so important to nurse without covering up.

 

This is an interesting read, but I do hope UCers won't allow the Janes of the world (sorry, Jane...you've presented yourself as an example so I hope you don't mind me using you as one) to take up too much of our energy.  It is more respectful to read silently and ask mindfully-worded questions if one's aim is to understand.  People who simply want to convince UCers of how wrong they are don't need much attention, IMO.  They care about their own opinions enough for everyone.  No need for me to care, too. winky.gif

 

One of the reasons I don't post much on this forum is because I once noticed a lot of fearful posts and that's not how I see UC and I didn't see how I could contribute to the forum without feeling a lot of negative emotions.  I think trusting birth is the hallmark of UC.  However, I think people read "trust birth" and think that means something other than what it means. 

 

"Trust" does not mean 'put a positive spin on things'.  When we trust, we accept.  That's all that is.  When I trust a stranger, I accept that stranger for who s/he is.  I'm not putting my assumptions onto that person. 

 

I feel comfortable saying I trust birth because I feel comfortable knowing that I will accept birth however it chooses to present itself to me.  And, I trust myself enough to know that I accept however I choose to respond to the birth I'm having.

 

Babies die during birth.  If hospitals could prevent that, they would have by now.  They haven't.  So it must not be preventable. 

 

Mothers die during birth.  If hospitals could prevent that, they would have by now.  They haven't.  It must not be preventable.

 

Life is risky.  A woman who is uncomfortable with that fact should never get pregnant, regardless of how or where she chooses to birth.  

 

Besides hospitals being unable to prevent death, they actually make it more likely.  That is just a statistic.  It is what many people would call a truth (because it's a statistic).  Personally, I don't care.  I had a UC because I wanted one.  I think that is all that's required for me to respect anyone's choice to have a UC.  Having a UC is not a quantifiable exercise.  You either want one or you don't.  If you don't want one, please don't have one. 

 

I don't fall in the camp of "you need to educate yourself".  Hey.  You can if you feel you need to.  If you don't feel you need to, don't.  Because no matter how much "education" you have, it's likely to go out the window when you're having the real education: experience.  Do whatever you need to do.  Read whatever you need to read.  It's your journey; navigate with pleasure.

 

I think more than trusting birth, we need to enjoy it. 

 

All this talk about what is safest, what is better, what is right.  Get over it.  Birth is meant to be enjoyed.  How do I know that?  Because life is meant to be enjoyed.  How do I know that?

 

Intuition.


Yes, yes.  I'm fabulous. loveeyes.gif  Moving on...

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Originally Posted by princesstutu View Post
I think more than trusting birth, we need to enjoy it. 

 

All this talk about what is safest, what is better, what is right.  Get over it.  Birth is meant to be enjoyed.  How do I know that?  Because life is meant to be enjoyed.  How do I know that?

 

Intuition.


Brilliant.  Thank you!!!

 


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DD 2004; 3 angel1.gif babies 2007-08; rainbow1284.gif twin DDs 2009; DD 7/12/11 hospital uhoh3.gif VBAC bouncy.gifafter 2 cesareans!

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#85 of 123 Old 06-02-2011, 01:53 AM
 
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Lisa, hug2.gif


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#86 of 123 Old 06-02-2011, 06:59 AM
 
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Besides hospitals being unable to prevent death, they actually make it more likely.  That is just a statistic.  


What is the source of that statistic?

 

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#87 of 123 Old 06-02-2011, 08:04 AM
 
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Lisa mecry.gifI am so sorry for your loss 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by princesstutu View Post

Actually, parenting is mostly learned through the environment.  That's the problem.  We have fewer and fewer good parenting models out in the USA.  Certain demographics/populations are more susceptible than others.

 

One more reason it's so important to nurse without covering up.

 

This is an interesting read, but I do hope UCers won't allow the Janes of the world (sorry, Jane...you've presented yourself as an example so I hope you don't mind me using you as one) to take up too much of our energy.  It is more respectful to read silently and ask mindfully-worded questions if one's aim is to understand.  People who simply want to convince UCers of how wrong they are don't need much attention, IMO.  They care about their own opinions enough for everyone.  No need for me to care, too. winky.gif

 

One of the reasons I don't post much on this forum is because I once noticed a lot of fearful posts and that's not how I see UC and I didn't see how I could contribute to the forum without feeling a lot of negative emotions.  I think trusting birth is the hallmark of UC.  However, I think people read "trust birth" and think that means something other than what it means. 

 

"Trust" does not mean 'put a positive spin on things'.  When we trust, we accept.  That's all that is.  When I trust a stranger, I accept that stranger for who s/he is.  I'm not putting my assumptions onto that person. 

 

I feel comfortable saying I trust birth because I feel comfortable knowing that I will accept birth however it chooses to present itself to me.  And, I trust myself enough to know that I accept however I choose to respond to the birth I'm having.

 

Babies die during birth.  If hospitals could prevent that, they would have by now.  They haven't.  So it must not be preventable. 

 

Mothers die during birth.  If hospitals could prevent that, they would have by now.  They haven't.  It must not be preventable.

 

Life is risky.  A woman who is uncomfortable with that fact should never get pregnant, regardless of how or where she chooses to birth.  

 

Besides hospitals being unable to prevent death, they actually make it more likely.  That is just a statistic.  It is what many people would call a truth (because it's a statistic).  Personally, I don't care.  I had a UC because I wanted one.  I think that is all that's required for me to respect anyone's choice to have a UC.  Having a UC is not a quantifiable exercise.  You either want one or you don't.  If you don't want one, please don't have one. 

 

I don't fall in the camp of "you need to educate yourself".  Hey.  You can if you feel you need to.  If you don't feel you need to, don't.  Because no matter how much "education" you have, it's likely to go out the window when you're having the real education: experience.  Do whatever you need to do.  Read whatever you need to read.  It's your journey; navigate with pleasure.

 

I think more than trusting birth, we need to enjoy it. 

 

All this talk about what is safest, what is better, what is right.  Get over it.  Birth is meant to be enjoyed.  How do I know that?  Because life is meant to be enjoyed.  How do I know that?

 

Intuition.

thumb.gif  love this post!  Very well said.  

 

I am curious about that statistic...is it qualified to specific groups?  Like low risk women birthiing in hospital?  Or an indirect conclusion...?  Do you happen to have a link to the source?
 

 

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#88 of 123 Old 06-02-2011, 08:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princesstutu View Post

Actually, parenting is mostly learned through the environment.  That's the problem.  We have fewer and fewer good parenting models out in the USA.  Certain demographics/populations are more susceptible than others.

 

One more reason it's so important to nurse without covering up.

 

This is an interesting read, but I do hope UCers won't allow the Janes of the world (sorry, Jane...you've presented yourself as an example so I hope you don't mind me using you as one) to take up too much of our energy.  It is more respectful to read silently and ask mindfully-worded questions if one's aim is to understand.  People who simply want to convince UCers of how wrong they are don't need much attention, IMO.  They care about their own opinions enough for everyone.  No need for me to care, too. winky.gif

 

One of the reasons I don't post much on this forum is because I once noticed a lot of fearful posts and that's not how I see UC and I didn't see how I could contribute to the forum without feeling a lot of negative emotions.  I think trusting birth is the hallmark of UC.  However, I think people read "trust birth" and think that means something other than what it means. 

 

"Trust" does not mean 'put a positive spin on things'.  When we trust, we accept.  That's all that is.  When I trust a stranger, I accept that stranger for who s/he is.  I'm not putting my assumptions onto that person. 

 

I feel comfortable saying I trust birth because I feel comfortable knowing that I will accept birth however it chooses to present itself to me.  And, I trust myself enough to know that I accept however I choose to respond to the birth I'm having.

 

Babies die during birth.  If hospitals could prevent that, they would have by now.  They haven't.  So it must not be preventable. 

 

Mothers die during birth.  If hospitals could prevent that, they would have by now.  They haven't.  It must not be preventable.

 

Life is risky.  A woman who is uncomfortable with that fact should never get pregnant, regardless of how or where she chooses to birth.  

 

Besides hospitals being unable to prevent death, they actually make it more likely.  That is just a statistic.  It is what many people would call a truth (because it's a statistic).  Personally, I don't care.  I had a UC because I wanted one.  I think that is all that's required for me to respect anyone's choice to have a UC.  Having a UC is not a quantifiable exercise.  You either want one or you don't.  If you don't want one, please don't have one. 

 

I don't fall in the camp of "you need to educate yourself".  Hey.  You can if you feel you need to.  If you don't feel you need to, don't.  Because no matter how much "education" you have, it's likely to go out the window when you're having the real education: experience.  Do whatever you need to do.  Read whatever you need to read.  It's your journey; navigate with pleasure.

 

I think more than trusting birth, we need to enjoy it. 

 

All this talk about what is safest, what is better, what is right.  Get over it.  Birth is meant to be enjoyed.  How do I know that?  Because life is meant to be enjoyed.  How do I know that?

 

Intuition.


Gently, because I did chose home births, but did not UC my four children.  I think this is the misleading and sadly ignorant.

May I suggest volunteering as nurse or midwife in a developing nation (Mexico, Ecuador or Haiti) and seeing how basic health care vastly improves the surivival rate of newborns and mothers.  When I was in Haiti, some of my patients had lost two or three babies at birth.

The choice to UC is a First world choice.  In many places it is not a choice, but a fact of life and the survival rate for both mothers and babies is grim.

If you chose to UC do so reliable information, intuition doesn't replace knowwledge.

 

 


Loving my life with J. and our kiddos Oldest Son 6/1997, Oldest Daughter 5/1998, Middle Son 9/2002, Youngest Son 10/2003 and our new baby girl 12/10 joy.gif  and our dog2.gif  dog2.gifcat.gifgoldfish.gif goldfish.gifgoldfish.gif
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#89 of 123 Old 06-02-2011, 08:57 AM
 
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Gently, because I did chose home births, but did not UC my four children.  I think this is the misleading and sadly ignorant.

May I suggest volunteering as nurse or midwife in a developing nation (Mexico, Ecuador or Haiti) and seeing how basic health care vastly improves the surivival rate of newborns and mothers.  When I was in Haiti, some of my patients had lost two or three babies at birth.

The choice to UC is a First world choice.  In many places it is not a choice, but a fact of life and the survival rate for both mothers and babies is grim.

If you chose to UC do so reliable information, intuition doesn't replace knowwledge.

 

 



I live in a developing nation. Not in Africa. Not in conditions where most people live in mud huts and don't have access to clean water. But in a developing country in Eastern Europe, that is still struggling to make the transition from communism. Not a Third World country, but a Second World country. Rural parts of the population do struggle with basic living conditions, as do minority groups (Roma, particularly). The struggle to transition into a more free society is excellently displayed in healthcare. Maternity care over here is outright dangerous.

 

I wanted to share this, because for me, UC was not a First World choice. I now love UC, but I do doubt that I would have chosen it if I had lived in a First World nation. In Canada, for instance, there are so many care choices that my less experienced self would probably have chosen to birth in a birth center, at home with a midwife, or even in a hospital. It is the total lack of patient rights and practices that are known to be dangerous (think 1950s US) that brought me to UC. The choice to UC, for me, was very much a Second World choice.

 

 


I'm Olivia. I blog about physiological childbirth, homebirth, and unassisted homebirth!
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#90 of 123 Old 06-02-2011, 10:00 AM
 
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I don't think it's reasonable to compare survival rates amongst UC'ed first world babies and UC'ed third world babies. You are then bringing in all the issues of extreme poverty, poor hygiene and health and often a lot of starvation and lack of resources- amongst all the other issues that enter into it. There was a program in Africa where they found that giving women a very simple sterile 'birth kit' drastically improved outcomes for mothers and babies even though they continued to birth the babies on dirt floors of huts without medical attendants. In a third world country I think it would be the conditions the hospital could provide rather than radically medicalizing birth that would bring the most benefits.

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