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#121 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 10:11 AM
 
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Err, I said the pros outweigh the cons.  Nothing about the original purpose.  And yeah, she can call whomever she wants "gross" until the cows come home.  It is certainly her right.  But my point is that she and her DH wouldn't have what they have now so this whole "leeching off the government is AWFUL" thing is pretty hypocritical when she has been a direct benefit.  :shrugs:

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#122 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 10:14 AM
 
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Did she say she was benefitting from her IL's?  Seriously her words can be picked apart... til the cows come home but it wasn't what she was interested in.  My favorite phrase for those who get easily butt hurt... ready... slather some vagisil on that and get over it. 

 

It was about a Birth Certificate and if she needed that. 

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#123 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 10:19 AM
 
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No, *I* said she is benefitting from her FIL's business.  Her husband is the "president" of (LastName) IBA Dairy Supplies, Inc., which holds as it's sole asset a truck-n-trailer, used for hauling his father's milk. It's a DBA (doing business as) company separated from the family farm as a shell corporation for tax purposes (and to enlarge the dad's subsidy eligibility). The farm is a family business.  Of which she and her family benefit. 

 

And I'm not picking apart anybody's words.  I'm focusing on *hre* words - one of which was that it was "gross" to benefit from the government.  She elaborated on this a few times.  Did you miss it?

 

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#124 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#125 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 10:32 AM
 
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Now you are just out right lying. He hauls Dairy SUPPLIES, not dairy product. He works on dairy farms in his territory that he purchased from IBA (aka Independent Buyers Association). He sells and delivers goods like inflations, pipeline cleaners, parts, soaps, barn boots, veterinary supplies for cows, brooms, etc. you get the point. IBA is not a milk hauling co. The farm hauls their milk thru AMPI but are in the middle of switching haulers to District 1 if you want the full info on Balzer Dairy Farm.

 

 

You know what they say when you assume....

 


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#126 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 10:46 AM
 
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I think that was the point of those who did the snooping to prove their point.  Meh, oh well.

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#127 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 10:47 AM
 
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Sorry, I never come to this forum but clicked on it last night because it keeps reappearing on the main page. 

 

Just gotta say, I think I now know more personal info about the OP now than any governmental agency!

 

Kidding aside, and to throw my two cents in on the recent posts to this thread, I fear that corporate greed and government complicity with said greed is far more damaging to our society than any data the govenment keeps on individuals.  Governmental bodies may have the so-called machinery in place to track people for certain purposes, but the real power lies in special interest groups and corporations. 

 

 


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#128 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#129 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 10:53 AM
 
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Stop trying to be different from everyone else!  Also you might want to be perfect in what you do so that you can't be picked apart... so many are here to pick others apart!
 

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You know what is gross? The majority of the unsupportive, uninformative, assumptive, bullying, slanderous and sometimes boarder line stalking, pointless answers on this thread. Way to go MDC UCer's. I hope you feel that you are really part of a group that like to support other women and explore the many different lifestyles of MDC users. Your ignorance and narrow-sightedness blows me away. May I ask what the point is to have your children at home unassisted just to end up going into the doc the next day to be ridiculed? One could say that is gross and endangering your family since there is a chance that CPS will be called or that you will be put on some sort of list that the clinic or hospital will watch. clap.gifA round of applause to you all.



 

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#130 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 10:56 AM
 
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 Way to go MDC UCer's. 



Most people posting are not UCers as far as I know.  I bet most clicked because of the post count.  I am not sure if being a UCer  is relevant or not.  I don't necessarily think it is relevant to the question of whether to get a BC or not.  It might affect how  one gets one, though.

 

 

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#131 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 11:24 AM
 
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I gotta say, the only thing "gross" about this thread is your attitude, op. I'm going to take my gross government benefits and go buy some gross food with it, because I'm one of those gross individuals who takes gross government benefits. Oh, and my husband is one of those gross disabled people who really benefits from gross government help. Maybe you should consider exactly who you're talking about before you go flinging your half-assed assumptions around, op. I mean, that's just my gross government funded .02, anyway.

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#132 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 11:24 AM
 
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Now you are just out right lying. He hauls Dairy SUPPLIES, not dairy product. He works on dairy farms in his territory that he purchased from IBA (aka Independent Buyers Association). He sells and delivers goods like inflations, pipeline cleaners, parts, soaps, barn boots, veterinary supplies for cows, brooms, etc. you get the point. IBA is not a milk hauling co. The farm hauls their milk thru AMPI but are in the middle of switching haulers to District 1 if you want the full info on Balzer Dairy Farm.

 

 

You know what they say when you assume....

 


 

Ah.  So where do these other dairy farmers get the money to pay for all these supplies?   It must be hard for them to conduct business so openly while working entirely off-grid, not accepting any subsidies, declaring income, paying payroll or personal or property taxes, or using public resources like roads and police/fire coverage.   I can't imagine farmers working the way you're suggesting your own children should work (off books, undocumented) would have any extra money to pay for any of that.

 

Also:  cleaners?  Soaps?   You know why farmers are ordering  them?    Governmental health and safety regulations.    The ones put in place to protect the public food supply.    


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#133 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 11:38 AM
 
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I don't think the OP is being picked apart.  She explained her stance on why a national tracking number is such a horrible idea and most of her opinions had an anti-government sentiment.  So this is all relevant.  Her anti-government sentiment is ridiculous, especially given her family's situation.  And people are pointing out how ridiculous it is, as well as how she has been offensive.   And yeah, the sleuthing is a little over the top, but AGAIN, since her whole point is that she doesn't want to be "tracked," it is also pointing out how silly that is.   BaileyB, you are very young, so I'm hoping that by the time you have a kid you will re-evaluate some of your anti-government and hypocritical stances.  I know I thought some pretty ridiculous things when I was your age, but you get older and you learn.... (Gah, didn't mean to sound like an old lady, LOL).   

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#134 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 11:41 AM
 
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stay off my lawn, karina5.


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#135 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 11:42 AM
 
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I don't think the OP is being picked apart.  She explained her stance on why a national tracking number is such a horrible idea and most of her opinions had an anti-government sentiment.  So this is all relevant.  Her anti-government sentiment is ridiculous, especially given her family's situation.  And people are pointing out how ridiculous it is, as well as how she has been offensive.   And yeah, the sleuthing is a little over the top, but AGAIN, since her whole point is that she doesn't want to be "tracked," it is also pointing out how silly that is.   BaileyB, you are very young, so I'm hoping that by the time you have a kid you will re-evaluate some of your anti-government and hypocritical stances.  I know I thought some pretty ridiculous things when I was your age, but you get older and you learn.... (Gah, didn't mean to sound like an old lady, LOL).   


She has a kid, doesnt she? I asked earlier if all of this was about the kid she already has or if she was pregnant or planning for the next kid, but I got no response. I assume she didnt file for a BC for her first kid, since she didnt seem to know that you file for a SSN after the BC arrives or that you didnt just automatically get a SSN just because you apply for a BC.

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#136 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 11:51 AM
 
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She has a kid, doesnt she? I asked earlier if all of this was about the kid she already has or if she was pregnant or planning for the next kid, but I got no response. I assume she didnt file for a BC for her first kid, since she didnt seem to know that you file for a SSN after the BC arrives or that you didnt just automatically get a SSN just because you apply for a BC.


She said she has a kid with "paperwork" but is looking at options, I think.

 

If I am not mistaken, on the form you fill out for a BC, there is a place to check if you want a SSN. I don't know if this is universal, but i am quite sure i have seen it before.


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#137 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 11:55 AM
 
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Ignoring the whole rest of the thread...if you are having an UC, you don't have to go to the dr the next day. What I did was go straight to the dept of vital statistics and file there. Depending on your state there will be a ton of paperwork. You can click on the paperwork for the BC to automatically apply for the SS card, and then vital statistics does it for you. But if you don't check that, then you have to go into the SS office after you receive your BC and fill out an application, turn it in personally, and jump whatever hoops your state has in place. 

 

I'm not sure about what MN has in place of the DVS that we have in our state, but you can call the state dept of health and ask.


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#138 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 11:56 AM
 
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What is so wrong with being anti government?  I know numerous Patriots, with lost limbs... children really who haven't quite lived as long as you Karina... but have actually LIVED.  Questioning and disagreeing with our goverment is important.  Unless you want to walk along in this life wasting what so many died to protect for you.  A way of life?  Freedoms?  None of it is the free we put our lives out there for.  We just keep giving to the big monster and it keeps asking for more.  There is a real threat out there.  I have no problem with someone trying to utilize the gov't as little as possible.  Even if they aren't doing but wanting to and wanting to learn and then spread the ideas, that's what being American is all about.  It's the freedom of knowing and deciding for yourself.  It's understanding what is going on around you and not just walking along in life scoffing at those with the lofty ideas... All the old folk weathered from all their years of learning...  They're sitting back sending our troops to dies in foreign lands that have no direct threat to our safety... our wallet?  Maybe, but not our actual safety! 

 

But I'm spouting stupid today.  This DV is going to applaud the OP for thinking outside the box, wish her and her family luck and hope she continues being the American she strives to be.  The rest of you can throw your dimes on the road and hope it makes a decent path for your honda.

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What is so wrong with being anti government?  I know numerous Patriots, with lost limbs... children really who haven't quite lived as long as you Karina... but have actually LIVED.  Questioning and disagreeing with our goverment is important.  Unless you want to walk along in this life wasting what so many died to protect for you.  A way of life?  Freedoms?  None of it is the free we put our lives out there for.  We just keep giving to the big monster and it keeps asking for more.  There is a real threat out there.  I have no problem with someone trying to utilize the gov't as little as possible.  Even if they aren't doing but wanting to and wanting to learn and then spread the ideas, that's what being American is all about.  It's the freedom of knowing and deciding for yourself.  It's understanding what is going on around you and not just walking along in life scoffing at those with the lofty ideas... All the old folk weathered from all their years of learning...  They're sitting back sending our troops to dies in foreign lands that have no direct threat to our safety... our wallet?  Maybe, but not our actual safety! 

 

But I'm spouting stupid today.  This DV is going to applaud the OP for thinking outside the box, wish her and her family luck and hope she continues being the American she strives to be.  The rest of you can throw your dimes on the road and hope it makes a decent path for your honda.

 

I'm not really following this post very well, but I suspect I agree with it, in principle. However, most of the "anti goverment" people I've met - at least those of the same general mindset as the OP - are operating with some fairly basic flaws in their "lofty ideals". One of those flaws is that they don't want to throw the dimes...but still want to drive the Honda. If someone isn't accepting anything from the government (ie. other taxpayers), then I might be interested in what they have to say. Since all the ones I've met (and the ones on this thread seem to fall into that category, as well, although I don't know them personally, so I can't say for sure) fall pretty well into the category of "I'm anti-government, until and unless said government is offering something I want/need, then I'm willing to take that", the whole "movement" (for lack of a better word) has never impressed me all that much.

 

That doesn't mean that I think the currents wars, military issues, etc. are even remotely acceptable, because I don't. There are a huge number of government decisions that turn my stomach (and not just in the US - the Canadian government is pissing me off in a serious way right now). Declaring that one is living "without the State" isn't going to fix that.
 

 

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#140 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 12:04 PM
 
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She said she has a kid with "paperwork" but is looking at options, I think.

 

If I am not mistaken, on the form you fill out for a BC, there is a place to check if you want a SSN. I don't know if this is universal, but i am quite sure i have seen it before.


I can't remember the specific mechanics, but I do remember that I had the option of requesting a SSN at the same time that I submitted the birth certificate paperwork (this was in NY State), which I did.  I didn't have a SSN until I was a teen - at which time I needed one because I started working at a job that required it for payroll reporting purposes.  I believe that proof of birth was a requirement at that time for obtaining a SSN and that probably still holds true.  I think that obtaining an SSN is probably a lot easier than obtaining proof of birth. 
 

 


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#141 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 12:05 PM
 
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There is more than one kind of box. It's been fairly clear from the beginning that the OP has no real idea in how many ways having a SSN, or in fact having a government, has benefited her, and she wants to exclude her children from these benefits she doesn't understand the origin of, because she's in the Knee-Jerk-Anti-Government box.

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#142 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 12:14 PM
 
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What is so wrong with being anti government?  I know numerous Patriots, with lost limbs... children really who haven't quite lived as long as you Karina... but have actually LIVED.  Questioning and disagreeing with our goverment is important. 

Are you saying here what it sounds as if you're saying? That you know people who have lost their limbs through disagreement with our government, taken to violent lengths? You are equating actual LIVING with anti-government violence?
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#143 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 12:25 PM
 
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I have stayed out of this for fear of being dragged into something I don't care to fight about, but I just want to say this briefly and politely:

I had a UC and all my children have birth certificates and SS#s. I completely believe that in this day and age, living off the grid - to the extreme of not having these documents - does more harm than good in the long run. Children deserve the opportunity to live life the way they see fit - not how you deem it worthy. I want to make my life EASIER for my kids, not drive them crazy when it comes time to get a driver's license or apply for college loans (which they will indeed need because we don't and will never make enough money to pay for higher education outright).

We may be living in the United States of Corporations, but that doesn't mean that the government really gives a hoot about me and my little family - they only care about what we buy and how much we make and spend.

This is a consumer driven nation and although I admire people who are actively trying to change this, I don't anticipate much will come of it in our or our children's lifetime. The almighty dollar is the strongest influence on this country and our government. Period. Nobody really cares about tracking you other then to figure out taxes and spending. If you want to live without taxes, buy and island and declare it a tax-free zone. Don't spend your time and energy trying to evade a government that doesn't really care about "tracking" you, KWIM?

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#144 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 12:41 PM
 
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 I'm talking about Disabled Veterans. 

 

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Are you saying here what it sounds as if you're saying? That you know people who have lost their limbs through disagreement with our government, taken to violent lengths? You are equating actual LIVING with anti-government violence?


 

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#145 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 12:43 PM
 
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 I'm talking about Disabled Veterans. 

Ah. I thought maybe you meant people in the militia movement.
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#146 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 12:48 PM
 
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So, Actual Living is letting the big bad government risk your life and tell you who to kill? But securing the rights of citizenship for your children in case they want them someday is not? There seems to be some sort of disconnect between these two ideas.

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#147 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 12:56 PM
 
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What I'm saying is there are so many who have been part of it all and are walking away from it now.  Being told who to kill... ha, you know most don't even shoot their guns and lots of them aim away... bet that's something you don't know.  Being told who to kill has nothing to do with this.  Being part of the gov't does.  Not wanting to depend on the gov't and wanting to keep the number system away from your person is fine.  That's what she is trying to do or at least was asking us about. 
 

Actually this isn't the place for this kind of conversation.  You can find me on LOP and GLP. 
 

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So, Actual Living is letting the big bad government risk your life and tell you who to kill? But securing the rights of citizenship for your children in case they want them someday is not? There seems to be some sort of disconnect between these two ideas.



 

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#148 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 01:03 PM
 
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Children deserve the opportunity to live life the way they see fit - not how you deem it worthy.

 

Which is exactly the point.  Once you're in the database, there is no getting out.  She wants her children to be able to decide for themselves whether or not they want into the system, or not.

 

 


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#149 of 406 Old 11-29-2011, 01:03 PM
 
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So, Actual Living is letting the big bad government risk your life and tell you who to kill? But securing the rights of citizenship for your children in case they want them someday is not? There seems to be some sort of disconnect between these two ideas.


I think Imakcerka's post was in direct response to something that Karina said about being young, living, etc. and is probably being misconstrued to mean something else.  Admittedly, Imakcerka, I had to read your post several times to understand what you were trying to say.  In a nutshell, I think that Imakcerka was trying to say that age shouldn't matter when it comes to beliefs about systems good and bad, etc.?  Am I correct?  I think one can take moral positions without having actually clocked a number of years.  I do think, though, being informed about how things truly work are key, no matter what kind of life experience you have. 
 

Edited to say:  Sorry, I cross-posted with Imakcerka.

 


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I just finished this ENTIRE thread...and was prompted to read it due to the high post count. The OP just wanted to know if you needed a SSN to obtain a BC. To my knowledge, you do not. If the baby is born outside a hospital/birthing center, the parents go to their local Vital Statistics office and register the newborn there. If the child in born in a hospital/birth center, the parents will most likely get a packet of papers to fill out, one with the option to apply for a SSN AFTER the birth certificate has been issued. A person does need an official proof of birth to obtain an SSN. The easiest way to have this proof is with a BC from Vital Statistics. As for all the rest of the conversation, some of it was thought-provoking, well-written, and informative. The rest I read, but chose not to absorb.

 

Personal Experience:

-I was born to an American citizen(soldier) and a Polish national with duel German citizenship in Germany. My mother gave birth in a German hospital. I held duel citizenship with the United States and Germany until I turned 18, when I had to chose a single citizenship(America). I applied for my own SSN using a "birth abroad"certificate when I turned 16. My parents let me make the decision. My two brothers did the same thing, although they were always single citizens(America).

-DH was born to two soldiers on a military installation in Italy. He has always had his "papers"

-DS was born to two American citizens in Germany at a German hospital. He does not have a SSN and has single citizenship with the United States.

 

As a military family coming from military families, we are very much "on the grid" and dependent on "the Man", but we still have choices!

 

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