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#1 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#2 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 09:07 AM
 
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Okay, not to pick on you but then your kid won't have a social security number or be able to get a passport. My kids couldn't even get a license to drive a car without three forms of id, two of which were directly related to proof of birth. Why would you not get some sort of birth certificate? Am I missing something?
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#3 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#4 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 09:30 AM
 
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 I do believe our dear former President Bush made it illegal not to have a Social Security number... which means you have to have a birth certificate.  I know, pesky laws.  I think it wouldn't be worth the annoyance of not having one even thought I think it's all crap.

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#5 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 09:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post

I am just wondering because I have heard of UP/UC'ers not getting them. I'm not sure not having a social security number is a bad thing....lol.

I don't understand why not having a SSN is something to laugh about. Your child would not be able to:

be claimed by you as a dependent on your taxes
get government services he may be eligible for as a minor
have a bank account/college savings account opened in his name by you
apply for financial aid for college
get a passport
get a driver's license
open his own bank account
get a mortgage
get a state ID
apply for most jobs
collect social security as an adult (if it's still around)

What's the benefit of having your life be so constrained?


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#6 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 09:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

 I do believe our dear former President Bush made it illegal not to have a Social Security number... which means you have to have a birth certificate.  I know, pesky laws.  I think it wouldn't be worth the annoyance of not having one even thought I think it's all crap.



I work in a hospital (labor and delivery). On the birth certificate form, you have to check if you want a social security number or not. Now, I've never seen or heard of anyone declining a SSN, so I can't speak to what happens if you do. I just know its an option.

 


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#7 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 09:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

 I do believe our dear former President Bush made it illegal not to have a Social Security number... which means you have to have a birth certificate.  I know, pesky laws.  I think it wouldn't be worth the annoyance of not having one even thought I think it's all crap.

Getting a SSN for your child is voluntary.

http://ssa.gov/pubs/10023.html

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#8 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#9 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 10:21 AM
 
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You are correct.  Then is it the birth cert you need for vital records?  Like it would be considered concealing or hiding a live birth?  I can't remember.

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#10 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 10:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JenRN View Post



I work in a hospital (labor and delivery). On the birth certificate form, you have to check if you want a social security number or not. Now, I've never seen or heard of anyone declining a SSN, so I can't speak to what happens if you do. I just know its an option.

 



I thought it was just an option you check if you want the hospital to forward your info to get the SSN automatically.  Otherwise, if you don't check the box, it means you would have to go to the SSN office and apply for one in person?

 


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#11 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 10:43 AM
 
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I had a huge birth certificate headache with one of my children. She couldn't get a BC with an SSN, due to the laws of the state she was born in. The SSN was mailed to us, but never arrived. Because we didn't know the SSN#, we could not get a new card. After six months of wrangling, we finally had to ask our congressman to intervene. Without the birth certificate, our insurance refused to cover her after a certain point.

 

I have a friend whose family was very off the grid and did not get BCs or SSNs for their kids. They had to apply for them as adults, which is next to impossible without a BC. My friend's first child died of SIDS at 8 days old, after being born healthy. They buried her in their homestead. Their small town law enforcement eventually found out, and a formal investigation into them was launched, their daughter's body was exhumed, and while they were eventually cleared of any wrongdoing, it put them through a lot of heartache unnecessarily. The eventually felt like they were being targeted because of their anti-government beliefs, and had they been more "mainstream," reported her birth and death, etc., it would have been less hurtful.

 

They later went on to have nine more children, and did get BCs/SSNs for them.

 


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#12 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#13 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#14 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 11:29 AM
 
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Anonymity and not being taxed, or tracked, etc. is the main reason. As far as bank account, mortgage, getting a job: Bank account in not a big deal. Get a safe in your house, live debt free, pay as you go, etc. Mortgage: buy a for sale by owner home or a rent to own home. Jobs: find a cash only job, etc. There's a lot of illegals with no SSN that get jobs. Or farm, which we do. State ID and driving is the only problem that will have to be worked out.

I'm not trying to be combative but there are plenty of good reasons not to have a national tracking number.

I don't see you as combative, no worries! understand that you may feel this way, but perhaps as an adult your child might like to visit other countries, see how other people live. Maybe "going through airport crap" will be worth it to him. Perhaps your child will choose to apply his love of learning to a college education and may need aid to do so. Maybe he won't think that's "gross" (not sure what you mean by that - that formal education is disgusting?). Nor am I clear why you would find programs like disability payments - if, God forbid - your child should be disabled, or WIC, which helps so many low-income families, to be "gross" as well. I get that you don't like them, but It's a very strange word choice. Maybe you can elaborate?

All I'm saying is, it's much more difficult to get a SSN as an adult than as a child, particularly if you don't have a BC, as a pp mentioned, and not having one takes a lot of choices off the table.

I don't quite understand the anonymity thing.
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#15 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 12:19 PM
 
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Well make the kid a North American rather than a US Citizen.

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#16 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 12:37 PM
 
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Quote:
 Otherwise, if you don't check the box, it means you would have to go to the SSN office and apply for one in person?

 

SSN can NOT be got via a birth Certificate you must show proof of birth- your BC means nothing and they will not except it- the hosp sends proof of birth (different) the physician, MF or a ped can also sign this- they have a form at SS that they give you and it states BC is not excepted --- this is for a young child

 

 

we went thru this three years ago

we could not use our BC for our DS and had to have the SS form filled out by his ped

 

ETA - some states do issue BC for stillborns that is one of the reasons BC are not valid  


 

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#17 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 12:45 PM
 
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I think all states are different, the hospital sent my information to vital records.  I then picked it up from there and was able to request a SSN with the birth certificates.  I've lost SSN cards before and brought in the BC's.  It can be done.

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#18 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 12:46 PM
 
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There are in fact many countries that can be reached from the US without airport crap.  

 

The use of the word gross to describe benefits that allow people to gain access to food and health care that they would otherwise suffer without is making it difficult to respond seriously.

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#19 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 01:39 PM
 
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I think it would be cruel to not allow a child to have a birth certificate. I suppose it would be ok for you, as you are not the one who would be unemployable, unable to ever go to college, unable to anything in the future. But it would only seriously hurt your child. Makes no sense.

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#20 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

Well make the kid a North American rather than a US Citizen.



You can't be a North American citizen - North America is not a country.  

 

I generally think children should have social security numbers, and while I think the many perspectives on that issue are interesting, in this thread, mainly I'm offended by the poster who described accepting government benefits that help people in need as "gross."  Is it also gross to accept government subsidies by driving on interstate highways?  What about buying food grown by farmers who receive government subsidies?  Or accepting a government subsidy to run a farm?  It's infuriating to me that anyone would consider people in need of government assistance "gross."  

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#21 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 02:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

I think all states are different, the hospital sent my information to vital records.  I then picked it up from there and was able to request a SSN with the birth certificates.  I've lost SSN cards before and brought in the BC's.  It can be done.



It sounds like you used the birth certificates to get copies of SS cards when the child already had a SSN. Not that you used the BC to register for the SSN in the first place. Is that correct?


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#22 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 02:21 PM
 
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It's a JOKE!

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#23 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 02:40 PM
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I'm greatly relieved - I was deeply concerned about the efficacy of the educational system if we can't effectively convey the distinction between countries and continents.

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#24 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 02:55 PM
 
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Actually it's not far from some interesting movements going out there. 

 

How bout just be sovereign citizens!  I think that's what she's going for anyway. 

 

 

The "sovereign citizen" movement is a loosely organized collection of groups and individuals who have adopted a right-wing anarchist ideology originating in the theories of a group called the Posse Comitatus in the 1970s. Its adherents believe that virtually all existing government in the United States is illegitimate and they seek to "restore" an idealized, minimalist government that never actually existed. To this end, sovereign citizens wage war against the government and other forms of authority using "paper terrorism" harassment and intimidation tactics, and occasionally resorting to violence.


Without the violence I presume.  I do know of one person who has declared this. 

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#25 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 02:55 PM
 
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GROSS?

I just dont understand how any of the things your child may need to do as an adult can be "gross", let alone the idea that older people, people who are disabled, and orphaned children receiving their parents social security can be "gross"? Do you realize how offensive that is?


Do you understand that your child will likely grow up to want to be able to drive a car, go to college, get legally married, have a job where they have to pay taxes, and buy a house?

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#26 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 02:56 PM
 
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It's the paper terrorism part that got me.  All this work for the Corporation of Mrs. Claire Johnson... Oh but this isn't about politics so I'll just shuffle back under my bench.

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#27 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 02:59 PM
 
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I got birth certificates for all my children, but did not get SSNs till years later when it seemed prudent for us at that time. With my eldest, even though I registered his birth, or thought I did, there was some hang up and it didn't actually get registered. I didn't know until he was 5 and I finally tried to get a copy of the BC. I then had to begin a lengthy and costly process involving court, a lawyer (which took several years to find one who could wrap their mind around what needed to be done), DNA testing, "witnesses" (yes, ALL THIS) and finally a court date just to establish the facts of my son's birth. I highly recommend getting a BC and waiting on the SSN if it makes you feel better, which I totally understand.

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#28 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#29 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 03:34 PM
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I appreciate your intent in apologizing, Bailey B, but I'm confused by the wording of your actual apology.  Are you genuinely trying to say that, although people who need assistance aren't gross, you and your family talk about people in such degrading terms that it's hard for you to watch your language in public?  Because that's really the only interpretation I can come up with for what you posted there.  Is there something else that you meant by the words "unique and different view of life"?  I really hope so.  

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#30 of 406 Old 11-28-2011, 03:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post

 I definitely do not think that people that take help when they need it are gross


So what did you mean by gross?

 


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