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#1 of 50 Old 02-22-2012, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm currently 31 weeks along with fraternal twins.  No OBs in our area will consider "allowing" us to deliver without being in a OR, epidural in place, ready for C-section, which they all just "know" we'll end up needing.  It's illegal for anyone to deliver "high risk" pregnancis outside of hospitals.  We found a wonderful MW about 6 hours away, in another state, with a lot of experience delivering twins, but it's extremely costly, and my husband is not that into it.  So it looks like a UC is our only option for not having major surgery and putting our new babies through lots of unneeded  tests, intervention and risk.

 

Has anyone freebirthed twins?  If so, do you have advice, recommendations or stories.  Thanks!

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#2 of 50 Old 02-22-2012, 01:12 PM
 
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#3 of 50 Old 02-23-2012, 09:18 PM
 
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Are the babies in 1 sac or 2? If they are in 1, the risk of cord entanglement is really high. 

Do you know the positions of babes? There is often 1 breech babe with twins, and breeches tend to need more 'work' after the birth.

Have you considered the Farm? Or asking the midwife who is far away if she can barter any of her price?

 

You could also walk into the hospital when you are just about ready to push...

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#4 of 50 Old 02-24-2012, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We did look into the farm, they're about 10 hours from us. They have wonderful statistics for twin birth, but it's even further than the MW we're hoping to use.  The main reason it's become so expensive with her is because we're having to pay another MW to be there, the expense of renting a place to stay while we're there waiting and after the birth and we're also having to pay for our regular prenatal care out of pocket.  Our insurance company does a global pay out, so no one wants to see us because they won't be the ones catching the babies and they won't get paid for the regular prenatal care, which I totally understand.  Our care has gone from $40 per prenatal visit and $250 for a MW to deliver to $125 per prenatal visit, plus any labs and $6,000 for delivery including our rent for what we estimate to be about 3 weeks, both MWs and PKU tests and some other miscellaneous stuff.

 

Not interested in going to a hospital, period.  We planned to use a MW and birth clinic before we found out there were 2 babies. If there is an actual emergency that needs assistance, that's something completely different.  I don't need a doctor to create an emergency for me though.  Nor do I need a staff of super nice, but over trained, paranoid, know-it-all nurses monitoring us for 72 hours afterwards. In our last hospital birth, the nurses completely ignored our wishes not to give our baby a pacifier, which she did every time she had him out of the room being weighed and evaluated, put triple dye on his cord although it was plainly written on his chart that we did not want it.  The staff pushed formula hard with both of our other babies, some of them were hostile because we refused vit. k, hep. b, and antibiotics, and frankly, we just don't that kind of crap.  No one wants to be that parent that leaves the hospital with newborns "against medical advice".

 

2 sacs, positions undetermined, they're both currently head down, but baby B flips about every 3 days, so we'll see.

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#5 of 50 Old 02-24-2012, 08:13 PM
 
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For a bit I thought we were having twins and did consider doing UC.  I am a big UC advocate, and natural twin birth advocate, but I can't really give my opinion on "do it" or "don't" because each person's comfort levels, health, and circumstances are so different.  I'd just do all the research you can and become as informed as possible about the different types of scenarios that you might experience with birthing twins.   Prepare for opting in on extra tests you might not otherwise get- just to confirm things for yourself so you can be best prepared  (2 sacs is great news btw!).  The unassisted birth forums by Laura Shanley have excellent resources and knowledgeable, supportive members.  Definitely check around there too for first hand experiences.  I don't blame you at all for not wanting to do a hospital for them, but I hope you can find someone that can be a good support to you in even a small way.   


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#6 of 50 Old 02-26-2012, 03:44 PM
 
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I would recommend that you search the old posts on this forum. There are mothers who were on here who uc'd twins. Also, you could do a search on youtube (you might have to join if the content is considered "mature"). Also, Laura Shanley's site might have a story or two.

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#7 of 50 Old 02-26-2012, 05:06 PM
 
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Look in the Multiples forum for homebirth and UC threads. This one is the most recent.

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#8 of 50 Old 03-01-2012, 05:03 PM
 
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Are you aware of why trained Obstetricians like to deliver in OR with all facilities on hand for urgent surgery if required ?

 

The reasons are locked twins, cord entaglement , cord prolapse , and for the reason that once you deliver the first twin the placenta may well shear off for your second twin who if undelivered risks imminent anoxia & death.

 

For you, there's the risk of PPH due to an overextended uterus .

 

I find it amazing that you describe these potential outcomes as something the Doctors create .

 

Good luck beacuse if you deliver safely you'll have dodged any number of bullets .

 

PS I've been delivering babies since 1983

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#9 of 50 Old 03-01-2012, 05:29 PM
 
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Would you care to cite the rate of locked twins? I've read it in the past, but don't have the number handy. It's so low that I find it slightly offensive that you are citing it as a meaningful consideration and implying that her consideration of UC is fool-hardy.

 

There is no doubt that all these things you mention are possibilities. However, in my personal research during my own twin pregnancy, it seemed clear that there was a much greater likelihood that unwanted medical interventions would cause complications. It is a difficult position for parents to be in to feel like they have a "rock versus hard place" choice between preparing for the worst possibilities, or preparing for the most likely possibilities.

 

From what I've seen, the medical "steam-rolling" that naturally-minded parents get forces decisions to extremes because the medical staff are often so unwilling to bring their expertise in on a reactive basis (rather than proactive). Several of the studies that I investigated during my own pregnancy would have, for example, a summary that c-section birth was safest. But when you actually read the details, natural birth wasn't even one of the options they considered. How ridiculous! C-section versus total breech extraction (as an example). It's very misleading that only some of the options were being considered.

In the end, we decided to work with a medical facility when our twins were born. We felt absolutely embattled that we had to fight so hard for a natural birth of vertex Twin A and double footling breech Twin B. There were several moments when we were very close to opting for birthing in the back of a vehicle, near the hospital. If we had found any one person (not necessarily with medical training) who was willing to be extra hands at home, we would have UC'd. I completely understand the frustrating situation the OP is in.
 

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Originally Posted by heatherfd View Post

 

Are you aware of why trained Obstetricians like to deliver in OR with all facilities on hand for urgent surgery if required ?

 

The reasons are locked twins, cord entaglement , cord prolapse , and for the reason that once you deliver the first twin the placenta may well shear off for your second twin who if undelivered risks imminent anoxia & death.

 

For you, there's the risk of PPH due to an overextended uterus .

 

I find it amazing that you describe these potential outcomes as something the Doctors create .

 

Good luck beacuse if you deliver safely you'll have dodged any number of bullets .

 

PS I've been delivering babies since 1983



 

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#10 of 50 Old 03-01-2012, 05:30 PM
 
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OP said she is having fraternal twins. Should be 2 amniotic sacs, then.
 

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Originally Posted by DaviAfua View Post

Are the babies in 1 sac or 2? If they are in 1, the risk of cord entanglement is really high. 

 


 


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#11 of 50 Old 03-01-2012, 05:33 PM
 
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How can this be? Is this bona-fide or just what you've been told? UC discussions aside, there are legitimate precipitous births so I just don't see how a physical act like birth could be made illegal.
 

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Originally Posted by aubryholman View Post

 It's illegal for anyone to deliver "high risk" pregnancis outside of hospitals.  



 


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#12 of 50 Old 03-01-2012, 06:01 PM
 
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Attending such a birth is illegal, not having one yourself.

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#13 of 50 Old 03-01-2012, 06:51 PM
 
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please remember that just being in a hospital does not mean you will have to have a c section. i went in to a hospital at 7cm with my twins (that i had been planning a home birth for) because something told me that at my point 35w5d and feeling something intangible i still can't explain that i should go in. I discovered that needed to get treated for sudden very high BP( would have been sent in my my MW the moment she arrived). and although the magnesium sulfate that they truly needed to give me to protect me from seizures was a drag and it did stall my labor, they respected me when i stood my ground and took my time.

i labored there for another 20+ hours before finally pushing out two amazing babies vaginally in 16 minutes. It worked in part because I was calm and clear with them and had a great doula by my side.  i actually stayed in a regular L&D room because i told them that was what i wanted and put it on them to explain a situation where they would need me in the OR that was right down the hall and would not be able to roll the bed there fast enough, they could not, so they backed down and i stayed in my room. it was all surprisingly civil.

 

one of the few other issues i had was very heavy bleeding and clotting after i deliver two huge placentas, the OB was very rental and skilled and sweeping out huge blood clots that were holding my uterus open and massaging my uterus and getting the blood flow to rapidly slow, we needed no other intervention at that point but had she not done that i would have possibly kept bleeding and needed help for that, she was good to me and i did feel she worked at being as hands off as i wanted her to be for the most part.

 

i share this to point out that just as we are smart to understand that interventions can't be the start of a cascade effect leading to a less that optimal birth, we also have the ejection to stop that cascade a lot of the time. Knowing what can happen puts you in a great place to stop things before they start even after you take a few steps down the slope.

 

 


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#14 of 50 Old 03-02-2012, 08:38 PM
 
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I just have to say women all over the world give birth to twins vaginally and med-free. I am sure you could tell up above there are some definete TROLLS trying to scare you. Do NOT let fear be your deciding factor, rather think as rationally as possible. I hope everything works out, no matter what you choose!!
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#15 of 50 Old 03-04-2012, 04:43 PM
 
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 I find it extremely offensive to be called a troll just because I  offered an opinion that doesnt agree with yours.

 

Women do give birth med free all over the world wihtour intervention, which is why, in those countries the death rate of mothers & babies is much higher .

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#16 of 50 Old 03-04-2012, 05:02 PM
 
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LOL (at myself). I always just automatically think of it being the birthing women who are "delivering" the babies.  Hahaha - silly of me to not catch the intended other meaning.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by erigeron View Post

Attending such a birth is illegal, not having one yourself.



 


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#17 of 50 Old 03-04-2012, 06:08 PM
 
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Unassisted birth forum?

 

The discussion I read on twins in the uc forum four or so years ago read way differently than this thread.

This seems more like a "reasons to go to a hospital" forum - or a "let's scare anyone who wants to do things differently than mainstream" forum.

 

 

Weird.

 

 

 

Way weird.

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#18 of 50 Old 03-04-2012, 07:33 PM
 
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Sorry, I thought this was about sharing information & advice, not just the party line of " Hospital is a bad scary place " and only " natural " birth is valid .

 

Seems the whole ethos here is that birth is performance art & the safety of your babies is a secondary / irrelevant outcome. Til of course something goes wrong . Then it's mainstream medicines fault for " scaring us away" 

 

Gee, damned if you do, damned if you don't 

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#19 of 50 Old 03-05-2012, 12:55 PM
 
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heather, welcome to mothering.com, really.

 

do should understand that they question was aced in a area that is generally talking and supportive of women exploring there options for UC or unassisted childbirth. so coming in with strong wording to the contrary without history around here is likely to be not taken very well. 

 

 

We work really hard to give information in a friendly and supportive way. we can think a broad spectrum of things and still choose to talk in a really productive way.

(this reminder is for everyone!)

 

I'm sure the original poster knows that there are risks and benefits to all choices. She asked for stories and info about UC or birthing her twins by herself, not for us to tel her what she should do.  I gave her some encouragement to feel like she could be more empowered to get the birth she wants in a hospital if she ends up there, since that was the personal experience i struggled with and ended up pretty successful at.

 

i understand that you have been attending births for a long time, so you better than most should understand why it is not helpful to spread fear to pregnant ladies. And many of the scary things you mentioned were not even apicable to her because she is having Di/Di twins and she stated in her second post.

 

you are always welcome to chime in anywhere here, i just suggest you think about the questions being asked and the context and figure out a way to be hear a bit more constructively.  I'm sorry folks got called trolls (heck they may have been referring to me as well) i do not believe you came across this way on purpose. 


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#20 of 50 Old 03-06-2012, 03:07 PM
 
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Thank you for that comment .

 

Saying that, I have noticed on the net stories of homebirth gone wrong ( NOT trying to scare anyone here, just commenting on what's out there already ) and the 2 themes that commonly run through them are :

 

- " Nobody told me "

 

- " I thought it was safe "

 

I actually thought I was being helpful , but clearly not .

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#21 of 50 Old 03-06-2012, 10:02 PM
 
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Heather- the unfortunate thing that you don't realize is that how you have been in this thread is one reason why people run from the hospital. They don't like people to make them look or feel like a bad parent for not going by the protocol. So if you are trying to change someone's mind to a hospital birth, then it might be better to approach it a different way.

In regards to your last post-
Sure there are home births that have gone wrong.......................and there are hospital births that have gone wrong. 
The real question is what is the ratio of each. I can say that most of the woman I know that have had hospital births have had at least some kind of medical issue arise. It may not have been horribly life threatening, but something outside of "protocol" that "had" to be done to them or baby.

On the flip side of things.....most of the home births I know of (and that is a lot)  were pretty uneventful. Now yes a few of them did transfer to the hospital in a last minute decision, but most were not needing to go there for medical reasons. 

I personally have had 4 natural deliveries.....one was hospital, one was birthing center and two were UCs and they both went beautifully. I am now pregnant again and will be finding out in a couple weeks if I have one or two babies. If I do end up having two, then I still plan to UC providing everything looks good in the u/s.

Letting someone know the facts is one thing, but perhaps a different approach of doing so may be needed. =)

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#22 of 50 Old 03-09-2012, 01:06 AM
 
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 I suggest you read up on "optimistic bias" but dont worry about replying to me .

I wont be back . 

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#23 of 50 Old 03-09-2012, 05:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heatherfd View Post

 I suggest you read up on "optimistic bias" but dont worry about replying to me .

I wont be back . 


Why am I seeing so many people assuming ucers believe their births will go perfectly, without problem, and are totally ignorant to risk?

 

While I don't want to generalize either... I think a lot of ucers do a lot more research and educate themselves more about birth than the average. I feel that if you are going to uc, it is absolutely your responsibility to educate yourself to the point where you are very familiar with common complications and problems, know strategies to deal with them or the warning signs when you will have to get help. Part of planning a uc is assuming that responsibility. I think/hope most women who uc take that very seriously. Hoping for the best and being confident is not the same as believing it is impossible for anything bad to happen to you. 

 

 

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#24 of 50 Old 03-09-2012, 06:10 AM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Novella View Post

I always just automatically think of it being the birthing women who are "delivering" the babies.


IKR? We're the ones doing the work. I wish a different word was used for what a birth attendant does.

 

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#25 of 50 Old 03-11-2012, 06:17 PM
 
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Well said, and agreed. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slmommy View Post


Why am I seeing so many people assuming ucers believe their births will go perfectly, without problem, and are totally ignorant to risk?

 

While I don't want to generalize either... I think a lot of ucers do a lot more research and educate themselves more about birth than the average. I feel that if you are going to uc, it is absolutely your responsibility to educate yourself to the point where you are very familiar with common complications and problems, know strategies to deal with them or the warning signs when you will have to get help. Part of planning a uc is assuming that responsibility. I think/hope most women who uc take that very seriously. Hoping for the best and being confident is not the same as believing it is impossible for anything bad to happen to you. 

 

 



 

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#26 of 50 Old 03-12-2012, 10:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erigeron View Post

Quote:


IKR? We're the ones doing the work. I wish a different word was used for what a birth attendant does.

 


On the SSN application for DD2 (born UC, I caught her myself) there was a space for "delivering physician."  It happens that I am actually a physician (although not an ob-gyn, but still), so I of course put down "Dr Mambera."  Hee hee.  The SSN lady was completely confused.

 

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#27 of 50 Old 03-16-2012, 10:49 PM
 
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heatherfd wrote:

Thank you for that comment .

 

Saying that, I have noticed on the net stories of homebirth gone wrong ( NOT trying to scare anyone here, just commenting on what's out there already ) and the 2 themes that commonly run through them are :

 

- " Nobody told me "

 

- " I thought it was safe "

 

I actually thought I was being helpful , but clearly not .

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Yes, but the EXACT SAME THING can be said about hospital births here in the US, which is why many of us are exploring other options.  Finding more information on this subject is why we are here.  We DON'T want to go into it blind, just as we once were blind to the fact that hospital births are NOT always safe.   The US is second in developed countries in high rates for fetal and maternal mortality.  But, no one points that out.  We're told to just take it as "the safest option" and "that babies die under the best circumstances."  Yet, we are chastized if something goes wrong in the best of circumstances in an unassisted or midwife assisted birth.  In effect, we often go into hospital births blind more so than we walk into midwife assisted and unassisted births blind.  I understand that you want to be helpful, but throwing facts in our face that we may already be aware of--or outdated facts about the "high risk" of cord entanglement, simply do not help.  Mostly, because we are ALREADY being told this by the OB community at large--which many of us have come to find untrustworthy by personal experience as well as current studies and comparison charts. 

 

You also said that you've delivered many babies.  Perhaps you are an OB or a hospital delivering midwife and perhaps you can't help but take it personally for your entire medical community that ANYONE would rather trust themselves than your community.  I can't say that I wouldn't be on defense in the same circumstance.  I most certainly would.  But, if this is true, please understand that while many of us here feel it has become paramount that we protect ourselves from unnecessary intervention that often cause problems, most of us wouldn't hesitate to seek your community out in a TRUE emergency.  It's just become really hard to trust someone who is always looking for an emergency--because they usually find a possibility and make one appear.  Simply put, we ONLY want the help when we ACTUALLY need one--for the same reason we don't opt for a yearly angiograms because we MIGHT need one. 

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#28 of 50 Old 03-18-2012, 05:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slmommy View Post


Why am I seeing so many people assuming ucers believe their births will go perfectly, without problem, and are totally ignorant to risk?

 

While I don't want to generalize either... I think a lot of ucers do a lot more research and educate themselves more about birth than the average. I feel that if you are going to uc, it is absolutely your responsibility to educate yourself to the point where you are very familiar with common complications and problems, know strategies to deal with them or the warning signs when you will have to get help. Part of planning a uc is assuming that responsibility. I think/hope most women who uc take that very seriously. Hoping for the best and being confident is not the same as believing it is impossible for anything bad to happen to you. 

 

 

This, exactly.  Those that have "homebirths gone wrong" are the people that shouldn't be having homebirths.  Don't try to take your birth into your own hands if you don't know what you're doing.

 

 

Anyway, here is my twin UC story.  It was a very lovely, straightforward birth of identical twins.  I had zero complications before/during/after and nary a cervical check!

 

http://thebirthingsite.com/birthing-places/item/331-my-unassisted-birth-of-my-twins.html
 

 

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#29 of 50 Old 03-18-2012, 05:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almi View Post

This, exactly.  Those that have "homebirths gone wrong" are the people that shouldn't be having homebirths.  Don't try to take your birth into your own hands if you don't know what you're doing.

 


I know what you mean, but I think maybe someone may jump on this for the way it was worded... I think complications/bad things can happen to anyone, even the best prepared mom or health care provider. I just think/hope most uc'ers are aware enough of complications that they can recognize true problems and transfer/get help, and reduce their tragic outcomes as much as possible. (Aside from doing things during pregnancy/labor that may reduce problems occuring in the first place). Looks like birth, no matter where, will never have 0 risk...

 

congrats on the twins!

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#30 of 50 Old 03-18-2012, 05:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by slmommy View Post


I know what you mean, but I think maybe someone may jump on this for the way it was worded... I think complications/bad things can happen to anyone, even the best prepared mom or health care provider. I just think/hope most uc'ers are aware enough of complications that they can recognize true problems and transfer/get help, and reduce their tragic outcomes as much as possible. Looks like birth, no matter where, will never have 0 risk...

 

congrats on the twins!


Yes, and part of not being an idiot is to know when to transfer.  A "homebirth gone wrong" does not necessarily equal a hospital transfer.  That's what I mean.  Most of the negative homebirth stories I've read either had nothing to do with the fact that the birth was at home (but rather complications with the baby afterwards that the parents/midwife ignored) or they were simply because the parents didn't know what they were doing.  Some I've read are where the mother ignores her own intuition because she puts too much trust in what the midwife thinks.  And others just get crappy midwives that are so worried about themselves that they fail to provide adequate care for their clients.

 

I totally agree that birth does not come with a guarantee no matter what you do.  There are a lot of ways to minimize risk, though, and those are things that parents should know, too.  Like if you didn't take good care of yourself during pregnancy, or you know you have some sort of complication, you should probably not birth at home.  But people still do.  Lol.

 

In all honesty though, I think the safest way to give birth is not a specific where or how, but on a more individual basis; it is where and how the mother feels is best/safest.  That is what I've concluded after going back and forth between what is safe and what is not.

 

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