*Update* UCing (but DH not happy), need info on twin births and/or Polyhydranmios - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 02-02-2013, 02:16 AM
 
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I suppose your DH is correct you did use the midwife for her knowledge, which I am assuming you will compensate her for- it seems like a fair trade. While I will not be UC I like to view this forum because I believe it is so important for women who wish to UC to be able to. I am so inspired and feel powered by all of you and the way you trust your bodies. I want to just say OP that sometimes people feel like it is all or nothing (meaning if you UC then you don't see any practitioners and if you do it means you don't really trust yourself or the UC process.) personally I feel your judicial use of a qualified professional has shown you are open to receiving outside support when something doesn't seem right to you. Perhaps this will help DH to be on board with you.
While I really truly honor your choice to UC I wonder if there is a way to also honor your husbands gut/intuition/knowing as well as yours? My DH has been able to pick up on things I haven't been able to see in the past so when he has such a strong response I will tap into myself or the situation to see if I can source what he is picking up on. Ultimately you 2 are a team and I believe you both are coming from love to this place. I would invite you to take a breather and try the conversation in a bit when you 2 remember how much love you have for each other. Your UC will be deeply enhanced by having a partner on board who feels his intuition is being honored as well (since you may need his support during labor.)
Best of luck and please keep us posted.

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Old 02-02-2013, 11:09 AM
 
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I would like to point somethings out. The mono-mono di-di issue is rare. Coupled with the fact she does not know she is carrying twins the odds of this are really really small. You have to divide the risk by the chance that she's even pregnant with twins. Which is only a fraction of potential, anyway.

 

And as to the polyhydramnios... Cord prolapse is something that most often happens with artificial breaking of the waters, even without poly. Natural breaking though, can be safer. I myself had PROM with a baby who turned breech after waters broke and was early, born small (3.5 pounds). These things would have put off any doctor and many a midwife, but the reality was, he was safe. He was moving and healthy the whole way through labor and this was easy to confirm with simple observations. I let my body and intuition draw the line, not just going by the raw data. And I was suspecting twins, too. Everything panned out.

 

Now here's something that many people, even some purportedly pro UC people don't understand - intuition, prayer and sixth sense. I really don't believe this woman would even consider UC if there was something wrong and she was getting a bad vibe about the whole thing. I don't think it's anyone's place to tell her to ignore these things or distrust her intuition in favor of tiny statistics.

 

Polyhydramnios is like marginal cord insertion (the marginal cord also happened with my last baby, btw) - it really tells you next to nothing. Chances are, if there's extra water it's because it's normal for that baby or it's the one byproduct of the rash. At any rate, she's right down the street from the hospital if anything goes awry! And she will not be in the dark if prolapse happens. She can feel movement and listen just fine.

 

A lot of UC people are happy to check in to the hospital if they so much as see their shadow and I say, power to them. There is a time and a place for intervention. But I also admire the women who trust their bodies when they feel intuitively and see with personal evidence that their baby is healthy.

 

This is a risk averse society. Just look all around and you will see people trading this half percentage of risk for that quarter percentage risk all the time, as though it's a life and death decision. What's weird to me is the left brain thinking that does not allow for other data points in the equation.

 

Huh. I think you should re-read what you posted and think critically about your conclusions. You also might want to look into the actual relative risks of polyhydramnios and twin births. Again, I am pro-UC. Part of being pro-UC is being responsible for your health and your babies health- making the hard decisions like seeking medical advice when indicated.  Eschewing medical help at all costs is kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and IMO goes against the very nature of UC.

 

UC isn't about trusting your instincts- it's about taking responsibility for your healthcare. 


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Old 02-02-2013, 11:14 AM
 
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I actually haven't cancelled my midwife yet.  I wont until DH is once again supportive.  I do not intend to call her when I'm in labor if he remains against it... if he calls her that's his issue, and she can stay in the living room or out in her car.

 

She doesn't think there's any reason to get an ultrasound.  She says she can only "feel" one baby, but cant tell what position its in, and only found one heartbeat, but doesn't really search for a second.  I can find two, but I dont know if they're different heartbeats as we only have one fetoscope, and we cant get either with DH's stethoscope.  She says that I do have a small amount of extra fluid, but then adds that that is common in twins.  I asked when she would be concerned and when necessary to get an ultrasound.  She said if I was one of "those" people who just has to know right now, she'd send me for one, but since I dont want the doppler used, she sees no reason to not just "wait and see."  (I'm currently 26 weeks, so not like we need to know right now, something we will probably be able to know in a couple more months...)

 

DH's latest intuition is that if we UC that we "used" the midwife for her information on the rash (which, since I have so much movement, is a non-issue now).


I think you've been fair to the midwife, even if you went UP the rest of the way BUT I think I like your idea with the compromise you chose for him. You don't have to involve the midwife unless your husband feels he has to call her himself. I like that. Nobody can call you a hard liner to leave a coach there for your husband's peace of mind in place. And most likely this will help you avoid another transfer should anything unexpected happen.

 

I don't think it's good to have a spouse who worries to that level left without someone to call upon, even if you don't need help after all. Sometimes a spouse will chicken out and push the mom into a hospital over a small variation of normal and as frustrating as that is, it's most likely avoidable if you have an easy going midwife on hand.

 

I like the way this one sounds. She's not coming across the way you describe her as high strung and focused on intervention. My midwife attended the first two births, letting my husband catch and then on the third one, she was there for the pregnancy and there for my husband to call. He did call and she set both of us more at ease so we could finish the UC ourselves. I was wanting him to try pushing the cervical lip away wanting to be done but he couldn't on his own and the midwife assured him he could just wait it out and I'd complete on my own, which went exactly as she predicted. So she could just go back to sleep. Good deal for her, we paid the entire amount but she didn't lose any sleep on us.

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Old 02-02-2013, 12:01 PM
 
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Huh. I think you should re-read what you posted and think critically about your conclusions. You also might want to look into the actual relative risks of polyhydramnios and twin births. Again, I am pro-UC. Part of being pro-UC is being responsible for your health and your babies health- making the hard decisions like seeking medical advice when indicated.  Eschewing medical help at all costs is kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and IMO goes against the very nature of UC.

 

UC isn't about trusting your instincts- it's about taking responsibility for your healthcare. 

 

Speaking of critical thinking, we don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish when weighing risks.

 

Let me ask you something, would you fly if there was a 10% risk that airport security was going to touch your vagina with a dirty glove or force you to be fired with radiation 3 times for their amusement? Or both, as some have experienced? Even though you might increase your family's entire short term risk of death during the long road trip by avoiding air travel?

 

I personally think too much is made of some risks, considering that people are trying to trade short term risks for long term risks (or the other way around or one kind of risk for another) all the time. Long term risks seem to be nearly forgotten. Like the Japanese politicians who are so eager to say there are "no short term risks" to radiation exposure from a meltdown. Great. Because that's all we are interested in. (we all know evacuation can pose short term risks for many people, especially politicians - naturally the politicians are more interested in that.)

 

I'm not saying there is never a time for intervention but responsibility must be weighed considering health between BOTH short term and long term risks when you are talking about using diagnostic equipment that could lead to excessive intervention.

 

I would need more information to seek intervention than a slightly bigger belly and more water than usual.

 

I haven't even mentioned any long term risks or short term traumas as a result of intervention in this post. But could you think of a few? I can think of so many it discourages me from posting a list.

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Old 02-02-2013, 05:55 PM
 
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Speaking of critical thinking, we don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish when weighing risks.

 

Let me ask you something, would you fly if there was a 10% risk that airport security was going to touch your vagina with a dirty glove or force you to be fired with radiation 3 times for their amusement? Or both, as some have experienced? Even though you might increase your family's entire short term risk of death during the long road trip by avoiding air travel?

 

I personally think too much is made of some risks, considering that people are trying to trade short term risks for long term risks (or the other way around or one kind of risk for another) all the time. Long term risks seem to be nearly forgotten. Like the Japanese politicians who are so eager to say there are "no short term risks" to radiation exposure from a meltdown. Great. Because that's all we are interested in. (we all know evacuation can pose short term risks for many people, especially politicians - naturally the politicians are more interested in that.)

 

I'm not saying there is never a time for intervention but responsibility must be weighed considering health between BOTH short term and long term risks when you are talking about using diagnostic equipment that could lead to excessive intervention.

 

I would need more information to seek intervention than a slightly bigger belly and more water than usual.

 

I haven't even mentioned any long term risks or short term traumas as a result of intervention in this post. But could you think of a few? I can think of so many it discourages me from posting a list.

I think ultrasounds are WAY overused. We should save them for when variations from normal behoove us to seek more information, so we can make an informed choice about our care.  

 

Yes, obviously the chances are in the OP's favor that there is nothing out of the ordinary, and the birth will go fine. However- she has signs that indicate there might be a complication or variation!  The risk of a single ultrasound is negligible. That's a fact. MUCH MUCH MUCH less than the risk associated with a surprise twin birth or polyhydramnios. Let's be real, here. 

 

INFORMED decisions cannot be made without information. 


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Old 02-02-2013, 08:15 PM
 
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You know what OP, the Cochrane Review in 2009 stated that they thought ultrasound was safe but that they weren't sure and new machines hadn't been tested. A good ear for babies should be able to hear two. Don't let opinionated people get you down. It's really important to see things from your husbands point of view in case your own vision is missing something. Otherwise rock on with your bad self.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:25 PM
 
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I think ultrasounds are WAY overused. We should save them for when variations from normal behoove us to seek more information, so we can make an informed choice about our care.  

 

Yes, obviously the chances are in the OP's favor that there is nothing out of the ordinary, and the birth will go fine. However- she has signs that indicate there might be a complication or variation!  The risk of a single ultrasound is negligible. That's a fact. MUCH MUCH MUCH less than the risk associated with a surprise twin birth or polyhydramnios. Let's be real, here. 

 

INFORMED decisions cannot be made without information. 


I think you are thinking only of the risks set up by the U/S waves. I was thinking in more broad terms like misdiagnoses or raised alarms that then require further tests and traumatizing worries over nothing. That concerns me even more.

 

For myself, last time U/S would have opened up a can of worms I didn't need. For one thing, he was very unusually small. His placenta was well below the tenth percentile range. So was he. He was born at 36 weeks weighing only 3.5 pounds. Coupled with the marginal cord insertion, (I also believe they would have measured lower than usual fluid levels) and perhaps a misdiagnosed worry thrown in for good measure I would have been subjected to the kinds of stresses that no pregnancy needs if you want a good outcome. Research shows that maternal stress in late pregnancy is linked to worse outcomes. Meanwhile, he's going to be triple his birth weight next week and he's only just turned 3 months old. He's healthy and has never seen the inside of a hospital or had supplemental feeds to boost weight gain.

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Old 02-04-2013, 09:44 AM
 
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"There was even this one I could give a link to, where a mom has a vaginal twin birth at a hospital and ends up with galloping gangrene. Not an infection you will ever see at a home birth. At least, there isn't a case of it in the news or birth statistics yet."

Not true. There was at least one home birth that resulted in a massive, systemic infection that left the woman a quadruple amputee. 
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/18373018/mother-of-t

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Old 02-04-2013, 10:16 AM
 
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http://www.homebirth.net.au/2008/06/homebirth-vs-hospital-statistics-to-die.html

 

If you find it interesting, here's the place that really helped me see how much better off many infants are at home. I guess it really depends on the home environment, microbe-wise, but it's hard for me to argue with the idea that a hospital, which sees thousands of people in a short amount of time (more or less depending on the size of the hospital) could ever compare in disease exposure to a home. And both mother and child are vulnerable to infection so the safest place is not where there are outbreaks or persistent infections the mother has never before encountered.

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Old 02-04-2013, 01:43 PM
 
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I think you are thinking only of the risks set up by the U/S waves. I was thinking in more broad terms like misdiagnoses or raised alarms that then require further tests and traumatizing worries over nothing. That concerns me even more.

 

For myself, last time U/S would have opened up a can of worms I didn't need. For one thing, he was very unusually small. His placenta was well below the tenth percentile range. So was he. He was born at 36 weeks weighing only 3.5 pounds. Coupled with the marginal cord insertion, (I also believe they would have measured lower than usual fluid levels) and perhaps a misdiagnosed worry thrown in for good measure I would have been subjected to the kinds of stresses that no pregnancy needs if you want a good outcome. Research shows that maternal stress in late pregnancy is linked to worse outcomes. Meanwhile, he's going to be triple his birth weight next week and he's only just turned 3 months old. He's healthy and has never seen the inside of a hospital or had supplemental feeds to boost weight gain.

Wow, that must have been a huge surprise since you were sure there were twins and suspected triplets.

 

 

Its amazing that he's never had to go to the hospital. Most moms of babies in the three pound range arent so lucky. Usually babies that small and early have temperature problems, feeding issues, and jaundice- at the minimum.  I sat skin to skin with my 3 lb 15 ozer for hours in my 90 degree house and couldnt get her temp above 96 and had to take her to the nicu to join her sister, who was there for fluid in her lungs.


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Old 02-04-2013, 02:11 PM
 
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ITA with Adaline's Mama, BlessedJess.  My DD was born at 32.5 weeks gestation, but bigger then your boy by nearly a pound.  She needed pretty hard core assistance with breathing to make it through her first few days.  You were extremely fortunate.

 

My last pregnancy was high-stress and high-risk, and I've suffered from clinical anxiety for most of my adult life on top of that, but I found that having information, and having ways to get more information, seriously reduced my stress levels.  As long as I didn't have information, I could theorize endlessly about what might be wrong.  My ultrasounds put a stop to that by ruling out a large number of the more frightening possibilities.  There was a pretty solid chance that my problem (placenta previa) would resolve itself, rendering all my worry pointless, but being able to plan for what would happen if the problem didn't go away helped me feel much calmer and more in control. 

 

I understand the appeal of UC in some situations, but I don't feel that it's a fair thing to do to a partner who feels uncomfortable with the responsibility.  In the event of an emergency, he'd have to choose whether to immediately help you or immediately help the baby - for a lot of people, this is the kind of terrifying personal choice that leads to paralysis rather then action.  I think you need to make a plan that works with his limitations.  He's been commendably honest in telling you what those limitations are, it would be wrong to attempt to override his knowledge of his self.

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Old 02-04-2013, 02:43 PM
 
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I think you are thinking only of the risks set up by the U/S waves. I was thinking in more broad terms like misdiagnoses or raised alarms that then require further tests and traumatizing worries over nothing. That concerns me even more.

 

For myself, last time U/S would have opened up a can of worms I didn't need. For one thing, he was very unusually small. His placenta was well below the tenth percentile range. So was he. He was born at 36 weeks weighing only 3.5 pounds. Coupled with the marginal cord insertion, (I also believe they would have measured lower than usual fluid levels) and perhaps a misdiagnosed worry thrown in for good measure I would have been subjected to the kinds of stresses that no pregnancy needs if you want a good outcome. Research shows that maternal stress in late pregnancy is linked to worse outcomes. Meanwhile, he's going to be triple his birth weight next week and he's only just turned 3 months old. He's healthy and has never seen the inside of a hospital or had supplemental feeds to boost weight gain.

No, I definitely understand and have experienced first hand the risks related to misdiagnoses or raised alarms.  However, when there are clear indications that there might be a problem, the risk/benefit ratio comes down squarely on the side of seeking more information. It just does; plain math. 

 

What would you do if your healthy, 35 yo husband started having chest pains? Would you wait it out, knowing that most chest pain is non-cardiac in origin? Or would you seek further diagnostics to rule out the possibility of a major problem, knowing that morbidity/mortality related to an MI increases with each passing minute?  This is exactly.the.same.thing. 

 

Also, your birth story is alarming.  I would hesitate to use it as a pro-UC example, because IUGR, in addition to causing chronic hypoxia during pregnancy, can also cause acute and emergent fetal distress during labor which may only be picked up through auscultation or EFM.  I am glad he is okay, and I hope he continues to develop normally and does not experience any of the long term effects of growth restriction or oxygen deprivation.

 

 I am sure you were monitoring your blood pressure during your pregnancy and watching for signs of GDM and anemia, because as you know, those and other controllable factors can cause IUGR. 

 

I hope my post is not construed as anti-UC. Because I am 100% pro a woman's right to choose the manner and place in which she gives birth.


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Old 02-04-2013, 04:15 PM
 
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I hope my post is not construed as anti-UC. Because I am 100% pro a woman's right to choose the manner and place in which she gives birth.

I am too. A woman should choose responsibly, and if her partner is saying he isnt comfortable with it then he likely isnt going to be too keen on hauling her to the hospital while holding a baby if something happens like PPH.

 

OP, I didnt have any dangerous amount of blood loss this time, but we had a baby in distress and I was too dizzy to walk. I was bleeding more than I had with my past two births. That would have totally freaked my DH out and he would have been too panicked to drive safely to the hospital (and dd wouldve had to go to the hospital.) The other option would have been to call an ambulance, which would have added a lot more stress to the situation. You're right, the second twin is more likely to have problems than the first. IMO, my baby B had more problems than her sister because A got a good squeeze, and I was already pretty wide open by the time B came out. She didnt get all the fluid out. There are lots of people who uc twins, lots of people who do a homebirth with twins, and lots of people who go to full term with twins. And then there are lots of people like me, whose twins are born at 35 weeks and spend 10 days (or more) in the NICU. I think that even if you and your DH do plan to uc, you should probably think pretty hard about a backup plan and some prenatal care because all kinds of unpredictable things can happen and most twins do come early. (the average gestation being 35 weeks). Just consider it.

 

Getting prenatal care is not terrible. Unlike what some of the previous posters have alluded to, you can always say "no." Just because a doctor tells you that you have to do something, doesnt mean you have to do it. So, the only "risks" in getting prenatal care (other than potential ultrasound risks) is the "risk" that a doctor might tell you something that makes you change your mind.

 

I think that when you have a partner, you have to listen to what he is comfortable with. After all, he will be there and have to deal with the aftermath of whatever happens. 


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Old 02-04-2013, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I hope my post is not construed as anti-UC. Because I am 100% pro a woman's right to choose the manner and place in which she gives birth.

I am too. A woman should choose responsibly, and if her partner is saying he isnt comfortable with it then he likely isnt going to be too keen on hauling her to the hospital while holding a baby if something happens like PPH.

 

OP, I didnt have any dangerous amount of blood loss this time, but we had a baby in distress and I was too dizzy to walk. I was bleeding more than I had with my past two births. That would have totally freaked my DH out and he would have been too panicked to drive safely to the hospital (and dd wouldve had to go to the hospital.) The other option would have been to call an ambulance, which would have added a lot more stress to the situation. You're right, the second twin is more likely to have problems than the first. IMO, my baby B had more problems than her sister because A got a good squeeze, and I was already pretty wide open by the time B came out. She didnt get all the fluid out. There are lots of people who uc twins, lots of people who do a homebirth with twins, and lots of people who go to full term with twins. And then there are lots of people like me, whose twins are born at 35 weeks and spend 10 days (or more) in the NICU. I think that even if you and your DH do plan to uc, you should probably think pretty hard about a backup plan and some prenatal care because all kinds of unpredictable things can happen and most twins do come early. (the average gestation being 35 weeks). Just consider it.

 

Getting prenatal care is not terrible. Unlike what some of the previous posters have alluded to, you can always say "no." Just because a doctor tells you that you have to do something, doesnt mean you have to do it. So, the only "risks" in getting prenatal care (other than potential ultrasound risks) is the "risk" that a doctor might tell you something that makes you change your mind.

 

I think that when you have a partner, you have to listen to what he is comfortable with. After all, he will be there and have to deal with the aftermath of whatever happens. 

I just dont understand why he was totally fine with UP/UC for our daughter, and this baby, up until the point we got a midwife!!!!  We've had her for less than half the pregnancy, had a consult and ONE appointment, and when I want to go back to our original plan, he's against it.  

 

Every time I've tried to talk to him about it, he gives me a different reason... first being that I was just "up and changing our plans without discussing with him" when I started the conversation as that I didn't THINK I wanted her there.  A couple weeks passed, and I was more sure that I DIDN'T want her there.  He then decided that I was going to bleed to death and he would be stuck raising three kids by himself.  Well, he risks his life every third day, going in burning buildings, to save people's belongings, and that's ok because he has life insurance so I'll be fine?  I see that as much more "life threatening" than childbirth.  People weren't designed to go in burning buildings.  Women ARE designed to give birth!  His latest reason is that we just "used" the midwife and it's unfair to her.  She's getting her money, so I dont consider that to be "using" her.  His reasons for suddenly not wanting to UC just dont make sense to me, and he refuses to discuss them with me, just tells me and walks off.

 

If the baby comes prior to 36 weeks, we would most definitely be going to the hospital, midwife or no midwife.  And I dont KNOW I'm having twins, so see no reason to do anything other than prepare for the slight possibility at this point (brewers diet, water intake, rest, vitamins/minerals, reading up on multiple births, etc...)  I've also been preparing for polyhydranmios, but the more I read about that, the less I think that is what is going on, since it occurs towards the end of pregnancies, not the middle....


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Old 02-04-2013, 07:21 PM
 
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Wow, that must have been a huge surprise since you were sure there were twins and suspected triplets.

 

 

Its amazing that he's never had to go to the hospital. Most moms of babies in the three pound range arent so lucky. Usually babies that small and early have temperature problems, feeding issues, and jaundice- at the minimum.  I sat skin to skin with my 3 lb 15 ozer for hours in my 90 degree house and couldnt get her temp above 96 and had to take her to the nicu to join her sister, who was there for fluid in her lungs.


I had enough experience by then that I thought that the babies would be small. I always had small babies before 6 pounds down to 5 pounds - and I was guessing 4 pounds. I am 4'11" and my husband is only half a foot taller. We were both unimpressively small 6 and 7 pounders ourselves. Because I thought there were two (I sure gained for 2! 48 pounds and I only lost 5 at the birthday.) I thought that I could expect a small baby, reasonably. But because there were two heartbeats still going strong when we checked with doppler midway the placentas were formed already when he became a solo pregnancy and I'm sure that is the explanation for his small .8 pound placenta. I continued to push the nutrition into myself and had been really determined to eat well for twins even after the rapid growth stopped. (I measured a net loss of size at 26 weeks of 13 cm - right or wrong - and then started growing again less rapidly weekly from there) It was a situation where the placenta was stressed while forming, I believe, and then by 18 weeks I had figured out what I lacked nutritionally but by then the placentas had stopped formation. The diet was nutrient dense even before I corrected the magnesium shortfall but afterwards it only got better. That's why it was frustrating for me but also expected. By the end of the pregnancy I couldn't find a second baby but wanted to believe it was still there. At 26 weeks I had already talked myself out of suspecting there were triplets.

 

Because I'm so small but packed on as much nutrition as I could - I'm sure that's why it was okay for him to be at home. That and he was very healthy. I had a 37 week 5 pounder who wasn't as robust. Neither required intervention though. Because he's so small it convinces me he must have had a buddy or two at some point.

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Old 02-04-2013, 07:27 PM
 
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His temps were great but we kept him on skin and well covered all the time. Plus he was amazing at nursing and blew me away. I was expecting to have to fight for his nutrition but he was quite able to fend for himself as long as I planted the nipple in his hungry little mouth and my colostrum was plentiful and then my milk came quickly. A new experience for me. Usually it takes 4 days to come in. Also the milk was rich for the first 3 months. More so than I remember ever before. And there was a little jaundice but it was gone by the end of the week. It was amazing to me. I was willing to take him in the day he was born if it was needed.

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Old 02-04-2013, 08:51 PM
 
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ITA with Adaline's Mama, BlessedJess.  My DD was born at 32.5 weeks gestation, but bigger then your boy by nearly a pound.  She needed pretty hard core assistance with breathing to make it through her first few days.  You were extremely fortunate.

 

My last pregnancy was high-stress and high-risk, and I've suffered from clinical anxiety for most of my adult life on top of that, but I found that having information, and having ways to get more information, seriously reduced my stress levels.  As long as I didn't have information, I could theorize endlessly about what might be wrong.  My ultrasounds put a stop to that by ruling out a large number of the more frightening possibilities.  There was a pretty solid chance that my problem (placenta previa) would resolve itself, rendering all my worry pointless, but being able to plan for what would happen if the problem didn't go away helped me feel much calmer and more in control. 

 

I understand the appeal of UC in some situations, but I don't feel that it's a fair thing to do to a partner who feels uncomfortable with the responsibility.  In the event of an emergency, he'd have to choose whether to immediately help you or immediately help the baby - for a lot of people, this is the kind of terrifying personal choice that leads to paralysis rather then action.  I think you need to make a plan that works with his limitations.  He's been commendably honest in telling you what those limitations are, it would be wrong to attempt to override his knowledge of his self.

 

I would not birth a 32.5 week gestation at home unless I had no other option. Not even a 33.5 weeker. 35-36 weeks are the limit for me and then only under certain circumstances. Being prepared to transport if needed. I had a basis for my fortune, and plenty of reasons to believe I was making the right choice for us.

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Old 02-04-2013, 09:16 PM
 
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No, I definitely understand and have experienced first hand the risks related to misdiagnoses or raised alarms.  However, when there are clear indications that there might be a problem, the risk/benefit ratio comes down squarely on the side of seeking more information. It just does; plain math. 

 

What would you do if your healthy, 35 yo husband started having chest pains? Would you wait it out, knowing that most chest pain is non-cardiac in origin? Or would you seek further diagnostics to rule out the possibility of a major problem, knowing that morbidity/mortality related to an MI increases with each passing minute?  This is exactly.the.same.thing. 

 

Also, your birth story is alarming.  I would hesitate to use it as a pro-UC example, because IUGR, in addition to causing chronic hypoxia during pregnancy, can also cause acute and emergent fetal distress during labor which may only be picked up through auscultation or EFM.  I am glad he is okay, and I hope he continues to develop normally and does not experience any of the long term effects of growth restriction or oxygen deprivation.

 

 I am sure you were monitoring your blood pressure during your pregnancy and watching for signs of GDM and anemia, because as you know, those and other controllable factors can cause IUGR. 

 

I hope my post is not construed as anti-UC. Because I am 100% pro a woman's right to choose the manner and place in which she gives birth.

 

My risks of U/S included possibly witnessing a failed fetus or two die, raising panic alarms over Mike where they would have tried to force premature delivery well before he chose to come, forced c-section, possibly forced drug testing due to the severe "IUGR", baby living in a NICU  for months, etc.

 

My husband did have exactly that issue. He chose to go to the hospital the first time it happened. Once he figured out what caused it, he could stay home if he chose, the next time. Chest pains can have multiple causes. The trick is paying attention to the symptoms and evaluating the risks on a dynamic basis during each episode.

 

 

"Also, your birth story is alarming.  I would hesitate to use it as a pro-UC example"

 

Not to me, because he was just fine, and still is. The point is, we avoided much harm. We needed nothing from them at that point. If we ever do need help we know where to go.

 

"I am glad he is okay, and I hope he continues to develop normally and does not experience any of the long term effects of growth restriction or oxygen deprivation."

 

So far he has exceeded our expectations. He's about to triple his birth weight by 15 weeks old. He makes emotional talking-like sounds at us and plays, laughs, smiles. Loves to stand up with help, has great head control, that kind of thing. No colic, great digestion. Better digestion than my other kids. Maybe the good digestion is because I take taurine in my morning coffee. ;-) I didn't sleep much as a baby but he sleeps well. I think he may be a morning type person. He certainly wakes up in a great mood.

 

"I am sure you were monitoring your blood pressure during your pregnancy and watching for signs of GDM and anemia, because as you know, those and other controllable factors can cause IUGR."

 

You bet I did. I wish I would have caught the magnesium problems sooner. That's my biggest regret. If I had, I might have 2 or 3 babies now. As it is, I feel indebted to my husband who heard the other heartbeat with me. He still grieves that there aren't twins. That's the hardest thing. He was so sure. I tried to brace him for the other alternative but it was too late once he heard the heartbeats. He didn't give up on there being maybe another for more than a week after the first was born. Part of that is because a friend of my family was a twin who's brother was born on a different month and I looked pregnant after I gave birth. :-(

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Getting prenatal care is not terrible. Unlike what some of the previous posters have alluded to, you can always say "no." Just because a doctor tells you that you have to do something, doesnt mean you have to do it. So, the only "risks" in getting prenatal care (other than potential ultrasound risks) is the "risk" that a doctor might tell you something that makes you change your mind.

 

I think that when you have a partner, you have to listen to what he is comfortable with. After all, he will be there and have to deal with the aftermath of whatever happens. 

You can't always say no. I wish. But people I know and others on the web who tested that theory would disagree. Every situation is different. Court orders have been given for c-sections before.

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Getting prenatal care is not terrible. Unlike what some of the previous posters have alluded to, you can always say "no." Just because a doctor tells you that you have to do something, doesnt mean you have to do it. So, the only "risks" in getting prenatal care (other than potential ultrasound risks) is the "risk" that a doctor might tell you something that makes you change your mind.

 

I think that when you have a partner, you have to listen to what he is comfortable with. After all, he will be there and have to deal with the aftermath of whatever happens. 

You can't always say no. I wish. But people I know and others on the web who tested that theory would disagree. Every situation is different. Court orders have been given for c-sections before.

I have said no before, to a drug while in labor with DD, only to find out later that I received it.  DH knew some of the things they were doing in the hopsital were wrong, but he just stood by and let them do it.  Which is exactly why I dont want the midwife...  she can tell me she's not going to manipulate, coherse, or lie to me all she wants before the birth, but when it comes right down to it, she can do whatever she pleases during the birth, some things with out even justifying them or asking ahead of time.  I dont want to worry about what she's going to try to pull, or what I'm going to have to fight with her over, while I'm in labor.


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Old 02-14-2013, 05:49 PM
 
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It is your choice of course, but you need to think of your husband career as well. Check your state laws as he can be held liable for providing care outside his professional scope of practice. All  it takes, is one DA who is sticker to the letter of the law to treat your DH as Paramedic and not a husband who happened to be a paramedic during a birth emergency.


I am wondering why you keep posting here? Are you unaware that this forum is a uc support section of Mothering? You seem very fearful and medically inclined. I think you would feel more comfortable in another area of Mothering. Though I am sure you mean well, your fear-mongering is a bit irritating (forgive me if things changed farther down the thread. I read this far and had to comment).

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Old 02-14-2013, 05:56 PM
 
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What I hate is what you won't find is the unsuccessful stories because here they tend to be deleted.  Nothing like skewing the odds in favor of what you support.

 

Seriously this whole situation could be made a lot better if you just went and got an U/S to see whats going on, are you having twins, is there something wrong.

 

 

I was watching this slide show earlier today. Most of them are twins - most of them are home birth - all but one set born vaginally. There are even a set of triplets.

 

http://www.pregnancy-and-giving-birth.com/birth-video.html

 

 

I have read many twin birth stories (unassisted) and I don't see what the fear is all about. Is there a risk in birthing? Yes. There are also risks in driving a vehicle, in eating fish, in taking a shower, and tremendous risks in going to a doctor or hospital. Shall we all hide in a cave, then? Afraid of everything and anything?

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Old 02-14-2013, 06:00 PM
 
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R1Jenny, your advice to get a U/S to make sure there are no problems is a reasonable post here in the Unassisted Childbirth forum. Regarding your other statement, unsuccessful stories have been deleted in the past at the request of the member who posted her story. This usually occurs not because she does not want her story to be known but because she found it being linked to and/or copied and posted about elsewhere in a very negative, attacking and accusative manner, something that would not be acceptable here at Mothering, no matter what the cause of loss. We always respect the wishes of such a member and remove her story to protect her, not to uphold a "UC at all costs" agenda. 

 

 

A reminder of our forum guidelines:

 

Based on this I am removing posting privileges of the members who have posted to this thread in a manner that is not supportive or interest in exploring UC or advising zapzipzee's how to get the support she needs from her husband and that will help her have a safe UC. 

 

Thank you. I know that when I was pregnant, I was very sensitive to other people's fear-mongering. The op may not be, but I do think it is unfair to bombard her with fear-bombs and accusations.

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