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-   -   *Update* UCing (but DH not happy), need info on twin births and/or Polyhydranmios (http://www.mothering.com/forum/306-unassisted-childbirth/1373129-update-ucing-but-dh-not-happy-need-info-twin-births-polyhydranmios.html)

zapzipzee 01-25-2013 06:54 PM

*Update:  Midwife confirmed yesterday, only one baby of normal size (long, but not big) and fluid levels normal.  We discussed, in detail, the fundal heights, and she says a lot of times babies have growth spurts early on, then it levels out.  She said if that had happened closer to 36 weeks, she would have been concerned, but since it was so *early* it was nothing to be concerned about.                                

 

DH and I were able to discuss his issues, and it really just boiled down he doesn't want to deal with contractions like I had with DD.  NOT something going wrong, those were just to "get at me."  He brought up other complications from DD's birth (cosmetic tears, 20hr labor, needing pitocin) and I was able to explain to him that those were caused by us going to the hospital for an epidural.  The extended labor is a side effect of the epidural, as was the "fever" and needing pitocin... I also explained that the tears were caused by birthing flat on my back, and the doctor ignoring my requests to change position or listen to me when I asked for tissue support.  He decided it is a waste of money to continue with the midwife (her fee, our gas to drive to now twice monthly appointments where she really doesn't do anything), only to have her sit in the living room or not be called at all for the birth.  He's still sticking with it was rude of us to "use" her for the time we did, that we wasted her time.  That I dont understand, but dont see how it is an issue.

 

For those of you who actually had HELPFUL things to add to this thread, thank you!

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

I brought it up again with DH.  He wanted a list of valid reasons why not to continue with the midwife.  Within an hour, I had typed up a list of 25 of them.  At first he accused me of trying to manipulate him (I related birth to sex, and not being able to birth while being watched, so I guess that's manipulating?  I didn't intend to...), then moved on to me being controlling, to me being like his idiot patients who call 911, then dont want any medications, and yell at him for not doing anything...  Wasn't sure where he was going with that one!  Then it proceeded to me stereotyping the midwife, saying she's just like the doctor/hospital staff at DD's birth and on to me "just not liking her."  I think we finally got to the bottom of it though...  he's got it stuck in his mind, that I'm going to bleed to death, and he'll be left raising newborn twins  and a 2.5 year old, and "thanks for thinking of someone other than myself."  The conversation kinda ended with me in tears, and he almost in tears.  I went to take a nap, and he comes in and asks if I'm going to call her and let her know or if I wanted him to.  I told him I thought he made it clear he wasn't willing to do that.  And he said that it's obvious I wont be happy with her.

 

So, we're Ucing?!!?!?  I've been measuring "large."  

 

Fundal heights have been:

 

17wks - 20cm

18 - 22

19 - 24

20 - 25

21 - didn't measure

22 - 28

23 - 29

24 - 30

25 - 30.5

 

 

I'm assuming either twins or polyhydranmios.  Any experience UCing with either?  Any links on info would be appreciated.

 

I've read some twin birth stories, and it sounds like the second twin usually isn't doing as well as the first... a lot of times the placenta detaches prior to birth?  It also sounds like the cord on the first needs clamped and cut to prevent this?

 

As far as polyhydranmios, people usually chose controlled induction by breaking the waters and allowing the water to slowly drain...  I'd prefer not to do this!  Any alternatives?  I dont want to deal with a cord prolapse...

 

Any info you have is great!  Thanks!


prescottchels 01-27-2013 12:06 PM

Have you checked the birth stories on the main forum? I think there are a bunch of UC ones mixed in. There are definitely a bunch of successful UC twin births out there. I can't really offer much more support than that since I haven't been there myself....  Good luck, mama!!


BlessedJess 01-27-2013 02:36 PM

According to my husband things are progressing along nicely. This about describes a typical male thinking process at work.

 

And I imagine you might find other ways to be supportive and even submissive outside the issue at hand. But if you don't want to UC yourself - then be clearer about that with him.


fayebond 01-28-2013 06:23 AM

Props to you two for talking it through honestly.  Maybe look up twin birth videos on youtube?  Or a bradley class near you?  DH said that seeing birth in a non-emergent context helped him alot with being calmer for our second baby.  


zapzipzee 01-28-2013 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedJess View Post

According to my husband things are progressing along nicely. This about describes a typical male thinking process at work.

 

And I imagine you might find other ways to be supportive and even submissive outside the issue at hand. But if you don't want to UC yourself - then be clearer about that with him.

I DO want to UC.  He doesn't, but is even though he doesn't want to.


zapzipzee 01-28-2013 11:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fayebond View Post

Props to you two for talking it through honestly.  Maybe look up twin birth videos on youtube?  Or a bradley class near you?  DH said that seeing birth in a non-emergent context helped him alot with being calmer for our second baby.  

I'm doing hypnobabies, he refuses to study with me because he thinks hypnosis is bogus and wont work.... I tried explaining that it's just very very deep relaxation... even got him to listen to the relaxation track while I rubbed some bad knots out of his legs (he couldn't let me rub without, then held perfectly still while listening) but still thinks it wont work....

 

I asked him what would help him to be more ok with and supportive... maybe finding out information on how to deal with the things he's worried about.  He got mad and said the only thing that would help would be ignorance.

 

I dont know what to say.  He just gets mad now every time I bring it up and wont talk about it, so I haven't cancelled the midwife yet.....  I guess I'll just not call her when I'm in labor, and if he does, then she can either sit outside in her car or out in the living room, depending on how I'm feeling about her presence at the time.


BlessedJess 01-28-2013 02:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapzipzee View Post

I DO want to UC.  He doesn't, but is even though he doesn't want to.


Great! I mean, I love to hear that! (naturally I'm a bit biased, that's what 4 UC births with a good outcome will do to you)

 

I tend to agree with my husband that it sounds pretty good as far as your husband goes. It's not unusual for a guy to talk like that as he's thinking the whole thing through. You are dealing with a male brain. Just be patient and keep feeding him information. He's not going to sing a different tune unless he has time and fertilizer for the idea.

 

Speaking of fertilizer;

 

There are lots of horror stories about screwed up, botched up hospital births. There was even this one I could give a link to, where a mom has a vaginal twin birth at a hospital and ends up with galloping gangrene. Not an infection you will ever see at a home birth. At least, there isn't a case of it in the news or birth statistics yet. Those types of infections occur in hospitals. Actually the most common and deadly problems that hospital births face is the infection rates. Antibiotic resistant bacteria run rampant there and a large percentage of doctors have active drug resistant bacteria on their skins and complicating the issue the doctors are terrible about hand washing. 50% of USA doctors studied did not properly wash their hands (or did not wash their hands at all) when attending patients. My midwife once attended a hospital birth where a doctor tried to use a dirty glove she dropped on the hospital floor but MW quickly prevented her and handed her a clean glove.


zapzipzee 01-28-2013 03:04 PM

I'll try to be patient with him.  He was perfectly fine with UCing DD.  He had spoken with OB's when he did his clinicals (he's a paramedic), who, off the record of course, told him there was nothing wrong with it and to go for it.  I think the problem is his physician advisor at work and his mother.  His only issue with UCing DD was that he didn't have his drugs that he has at work.  I found herbs that did the same thing, and reminded him that an ambulance is less than 5 minutes away, and that was fine for him.  I just dont understand his resistance with THIS baby.

 

We did watch some breech births on youtube, and I think that weirded him out a little....  ;)  It is a little funny looking to see a bum coming out rather than a head!


nilatti 01-29-2013 11:42 AM

I had home births with a CPM, but my first labor was so fast that DH and I were both afraid that #2 would come before she got there (and we were sort of freaked out at the idea of an unplanned UC). DH was able to take a neonatal resuscitation class--the same training that midwives and L&D nurses get. The AAP, which is the certifying board, yelled at the lady who taught the class after the fact, but ... anyway, thank God, we didn't need it, but it made us both feel so much better, especially him.


zapzipzee 01-29-2013 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nilatti View Post

I had home births with a CPM, but my first labor was so fast that DH and I were both afraid that #2 would come before she got there (and we were sort of freaked out at the idea of an unplanned UC). DH was able to take a neonatal resuscitation class--the same training that midwives and L&D nurses get. The AAP, which is the certifying board, yelled at the lady who taught the class after the fact, but ... anyway, thank God, we didn't need it, but it made us both feel so much better, especially him.

Thanks... DH is a Paramedic.  I am a CPR instructor.  We know what to do, should the issue arise...  Every time we talk about it, he gives me a different reason than the last time.  His lastest reason is that we "used" the midwife....  I just dont understand.


BlessedJess 01-29-2013 12:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapzipzee View Post

I'll try to be patient with him.  He was perfectly fine with UCing DD.  He had spoken with OB's when he did his clinicals (he's a paramedic), who, off the record of course, told him there was nothing wrong with it and to go for it.  I think the problem is his physician advisor at work and his mother.  His only issue with UCing DD was that he didn't have his drugs that he has at work.  I found herbs that did the same thing, and reminded him that an ambulance is less than 5 minutes away, and that was fine for him.  I just dont understand his resistance with THIS baby.

 

We did watch some breech births on youtube, and I think that weirded him out a little....  ;)  It is a little funny looking to see a bum coming out rather than a head!


Show him what happens when you get a surprise breech in a hospital. It's gory.

 

I had my little one flip on his birthday after his waters broke that morning, before active labor set in. He was not what you would call the "ideal breech" baby, either.

 

Waters broken before labor, 36 weeks, 3.5 pounds, etc. None of these things would have been tolerated for a breech birth so it would have been surgery for me. Plus, instead of growing happily at home at a breakneck speed he would have been sitting in an incubator for weeks. :( He might have even gotten a life threatening infection while there. (assuming God didn't work more miracles to pull us through - I prefer not to tempt God to please man)


Alenushka 01-29-2013 12:20 PM

I am CPR instructor and my  partner is EMT. out body of knowledge taught us not we are not qualified to deliver twins should any issues arise. We do not have a blood bank or OR at home

 

Your DH is right, if you have PPH, you may bleed out to death before you get to the hospital. Statistics are on your side, but it is something to think about. I understand that eh does not want to see his kids to grow up motherless. Herbs do not do the same things and hospital is never really 5 minutes away unless you live right across from it. Calling 911, take time, getting ambulance in your House is minimum 10 mins, then loading you in, then unloading at the hospital, the assessment in ER, then the elevator ride to OR.....it is long time.


Can you at least see an OB and have US to make  know for sure if you have twins or not and if there any issues or not?

 

When you have a data, it is much easier to make right decision. Maybe you do not have twins and all is right in the womb, and that will calm down your DH's fear and give me more optimist about USing . If all is well, you both can be relaxed and not argue and enjoy the pregnancy.  I imagine your DH would stop giving you a hear time once he hears confirmation that you are a low risk pregnancy.  I think having loving and peaceful relationship between parents is very important during the pregnancy.


As far as germs, MRSA is everywhere. It  is in your House ow on some surface if not on your skin. If your DH is paramedic, he is colonized. And yes, there have been cases of bad infections during home birth including one where mom ended up with colostomy bag.  So, germs are everywhere.


prescottchels 01-29-2013 12:30 PM

If your DH is arguing that you "used" your MW when you had one. Break it down. What did she do? What do you need to know or have on hand to be able to do the same things she did. Has he read Emergency Childbirth (again?). You might just have it laying around somewhere so he can pick it up on a whim...


zapzipzee 01-29-2013 12:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by prescottchels View Post

If your DH is arguing that you "used" your MW when you had one. Break it down. What did she do? What do you need to know or have on hand to be able to do the same things she did. Has he read Emergency Childbirth (again?). You might just have it laying around somewhere so he can pick it up on a whim...

Yup, that's his latest... that I'm suddenly "changing" our plans and "using" the midwife.  For the first 15 weeks of pregnancy, we were planning another UC.  Then I got a rash and saw our GP (his Physician Advisor at work), and was diagnosed with Pityriasis Rosea.  He told me if the baby survived, it could be born prematurely, and when DH talked to him about it, he said it would be unlikely to breath on it's own as the disease attacks the skeletal muscles.  I am unwilling to have a hospital birth after DD's birth, so we found a very hands off mid-wife.  She conferred with her back up OB, and painted a completely different picture than the GP did.  If baby makes it to term, it MAY have trouble nursing, and need physical therapy to help sit/walk etc....  At that time I hadn't felt any movement yet.  At my 17 week appointment, I felt movement.  LOTS of movement... more movement than I EVER felt with DD.  The midwife says it's highly unlikely that the baby was affected, as I wouldn't be feeling that much movement if it had been, and even if it was affected, it doesn't increase my risk for a home birth.  I am still low risk.  She didn't do anything that I hadn't already been doing at home as part of my UP stuff....  She doesn't think we need an ultrasound.  We saw her for a consult, and then for the 17wk appt.  She charges $90/appt. if you transfer to an OB, so I see no reason not to pay her the $90 for the appointment, and transfer back to ourselves.  I dont feel like we used her....  Had I not been freaked out by the GP's scare tactic, I probably would have taken more time... and by then, felt movement, and known on my own that nothing was wrong.

 

I have Emergency Childbirth and Heart and Hands.  He refused to read either of them while I was pregnant with DD as "he's a paramedic, and is trained in emergencies."  I read them, made cheat sheets, etc....  He doesn't like to read, and says he's too busy to read books.


zapzipzee 01-29-2013 01:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

I am CPR instructor and my  partner is EMT. out body of knowledge taught us not we are not qualified to deliver twins should any issues arise. We do not have a blood bank or OR at home

 

Your DH is right, if you have PPH, you may bleed out to death before you get to the hospital. Statistics are on your side, but it is something to think about. I understand that eh does not want to see his kids to grow up motherless. Herbs do not do the same things and hospital is never really 5 minutes away unless you live right across from it. Calling 911, take time, getting ambulance in your House is minimum 10 mins, then loading you in, then unloading at the hospital, the assessment in ER, then the elevator ride to OR.....it is long time.


Can you at least see an OB and have US to make  know for sure if you have twins or not and if there any issues or not?

 

When you have a data, it is much easier to make right decision. Maybe you do not have twins and all is right in the womb, and that will calm down your DH's fear and give me more optimist about USing . If all is well, you both can be relaxed and not argue and enjoy the pregnancy.  I imagine your DH would stop giving you a hear time once he hears confirmation that you are a low risk pregnancy.  I think having loving and peaceful relationship between parents is very important during the pregnancy.


As far as germs, MRSA is everywhere. It  is in your House ow on some surface if not on your skin. If your DH is paramedic, he is colonized. And yes, there have been cases of bad infections during home birth including one where mom ended up with colostomy bag.  So, germs are everywhere.

Actually, the Ambulance is JUST DOWN THE STREET.  DH is one of three Paramedics.  They know our address.  He would probably call them first, then 911 just to get it in the CAD.  They CAN be here within 5 minutes, easily.  They have drugs (if the herbs dont work), and saline on the ambulance.  If I need blood that bad, lifeflight has blood and is here within 15 minutes of being called.  If I am supposed to die, that is God's plan, and being in the hospital wont change that.

 

I am not afraid of germs.  I am more afraid of doctors complicating things that are not complicated.  The majority of the population has been brainwashed to believe that the medical community does what's best for the patient, when in fact, they do not.  They are required to do what is best for them, even if it makes the patient worse, because that is protocall, and they had better stick to it or lose their malpractice insurance.


BlessedJess 01-29-2013 01:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

I am CPR instructor and my  partner is EMT. out body of knowledge taught us not we are not qualified to deliver twins should any issues arise. We do not have a blood bank or OR at home

 

Your DH is right, if you have PPH, you may bleed out to death before you get to the hospital. Statistics are on your side, but it is something to think about. I understand that eh does not want to see his kids to grow up motherless. Herbs do not do the same things and hospital is never really 5 minutes away unless you live right across from it. Calling 911, take time, getting ambulance in your House is minimum 10 mins, then loading you in, then unloading at the hospital, the assessment in ER, then the elevator ride to OR.....it is long time.


Can you at least see an OB and have US to make  know for sure if you have twins or not and if there any issues or not?

 

When you have a data, it is much easier to make right decision. Maybe you do not have twins and all is right in the womb, and that will calm down your DH's fear and give me more optimist about USing . If all is well, you both can be relaxed and not argue and enjoy the pregnancy.  I imagine your DH would stop giving you a hear time once he hears confirmation that you are a low risk pregnancy.  I think having loving and peaceful relationship between parents is very important during the pregnancy.


As far as germs, MRSA is everywhere. It  is in your House ow on some surface if not on your skin. If your DH is paramedic, he is colonized. And yes, there have been cases of bad infections during home birth including one where mom ended up with colostomy bag.  So, germs are everywhere.

 

"you may bleed out to death before you get to the hospital. Statistics are on your side, but it is something to think about."

 

And you may bleed to death in the hospital also. It happens. Sometimes they even forget to take the scalpel out before they sew you up during a c-section. Doctors can be tired. Nurses can be busy or neglectful. But of course, the odds are still "on your side" even in the hospital. They are on your side anywhere.

 

"germs are everywhere"

 

If you treat your home like a hospital and you might have drug resistant bacteria there. I would be really grateful to anyone who can post a link to the hospitals in Europe who stopped the proliferation of superbugs by stopping antibiotic soap abuse. They do not try to scrub every germ out of the place so they don't get super germs killing their patients anymore. I can't find my old link. I know it's around the web somewhere... Here's a decent article;

 

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/healthcare/health/healthcare/story/2011-09-19/War-on-hospital-infections-drags-on/50470390/1

 

"Can you at least see an OB and have US to make  know for sure if you have twins or not and if there any issues or not?"

 

I hope people don't start on this. I had the same thing happen to me on my thread when I was pregnant and suspecting multiples. I ended up having to leave when I started to get cursing emails, claiming I was stupid or not a real mom. I was glad though, MDC has very nice moderators. This place rocks. Just please don't be upset, Alenushka, when I say it's better to just say "I would get an ultrasound, but it's your choice if you wish, even though you might be glad for the information." We don't need people begging and pressuring for intervention on a UC site, do we? I had to leave and get less support here as a result of how that went.

 

"When you have a data, it is much easier to make right decision"

 

When you have data it's much easier to freak over nothing and get pushed into making the wrong decision. That's my opinion and it surely was true for me and my son. We didn't need anyone freaking that he was 3.5 pounds. It was okay for him to come early and be born breech in water. He didn't need intervention but we both would have gotten it to the gills at a hospital after an ultrasound.


zapzipzee 01-29-2013 02:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedJess View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

I am CPR instructor and my  partner is EMT. out body of knowledge taught us not we are not qualified to deliver twins should any issues arise. We do not have a blood bank or OR at home

 

Your DH is right, if you have PPH, you may bleed out to death before you get to the hospital. Statistics are on your side, but it is something to think about. I understand that eh does not want to see his kids to grow up motherless. Herbs do not do the same things and hospital is never really 5 minutes away unless you live right across from it. Calling 911, take time, getting ambulance in your House is minimum 10 mins, then loading you in, then unloading at the hospital, the assessment in ER, then the elevator ride to OR.....it is long time.


Can you at least see an OB and have US to make  know for sure if you have twins or not and if there any issues or not?

 

When you have a data, it is much easier to make right decision. Maybe you do not have twins and all is right in the womb, and that will calm down your DH's fear and give me more optimist about USing . If all is well, you both can be relaxed and not argue and enjoy the pregnancy.  I imagine your DH would stop giving you a hear time once he hears confirmation that you are a low risk pregnancy.  I think having loving and peaceful relationship between parents is very important during the pregnancy.


As far as germs, MRSA is everywhere. It  is in your House ow on some surface if not on your skin. If your DH is paramedic, he is colonized. And yes, there have been cases of bad infections during home birth including one where mom ended up with colostomy bag.  So, germs are everywhere.

 

"you may bleed out to death before you get to the hospital. Statistics are on your side, but it is something to think about."

 

And you may bleed to death in the hospital also. It happens. Sometimes they even forget to take the scalpel out before they sew you up during a c-section. Doctors can be tired. Nurses can be busy or neglectful. But of course, the odds are still "on your side" even in the hospital. They are on your side anywhere.

 

"germs are everywhere"

 

If you treat your home like a hospital and you might have drug resistant bacteria there. I would be really grateful to anyone who can post a link to the hospitals in Europe who stopped the proliferation of superbugs by stopping antibiotic soap abuse. They do not try to scrub every germ out of the place so they don't get super germs killing their patients anymore. I can't find my old link. I know it's around the web somewhere... Here's a decent article;

 

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/healthcare/health/healthcare/story/2011-09-19/War-on-hospital-infections-drags-on/50470390/1

 

"Can you at least see an OB and have US to make  know for sure if you have twins or not and if there any issues or not?"

 

I hope people don't start on this. I had the same thing happen to me on my thread when I was pregnant and suspecting multiples. I ended up having to leave when I started to get cursing emails, claiming I was stupid or not a real mom. I was glad though, MDC has very nice moderators. This place rocks. Just please don't be upset, Alenushka, when I say it's better to just say "I would get an ultrasound, but it's your choice if you wish, even though you might be glad for the information." We don't need people begging and pressuring for intervention on a UC site, do we? I had to leave and get less support here as a result of how that went.

 

"When you have a data, it is much easier to make right decision"

 

When you have data it's much easier to freak over nothing and get pushed into making the wrong decision. That's my opinion and it surely was true for me and my son. We didn't need anyone freaking that he was 3.5 pounds. It was okay for him to come early and be born breech in water. He didn't need intervention but we both would have gotten it to the gills at a hospital after an ultrasound.

THANK YOU for your entire post!  :)  Your last paragraph is exactly what I feel happened already, and why we even having this argument over UCing/Midwife.  The GP was correct in his diagnosis, but totally in the wrong to essentially tell DH the baby would die at home.  I did a lot of research on the virus, and he was wrong in his description of what the baby would be like.  The midwife's description was much more accurate....  I allowed him to freak me out over nothing.

 

I used to like bath and body works hand soaps, until I found out all the bad stuff in them... we're still using up the last of them... and they are antibacterial...ugh!  Other than that, I clean with Vinegar, even though I cant stand the smell!

 

Thanks!


prescottchels 01-30-2013 11:57 AM

I dunno what to tell ya to do about your DH, Zapzipzee, except to maybe lay low about the whole UC thing for a bit. Perhaps if he has time to let it settle in w/o any discussion about it he'll come around...

 

As for cleaning w/vinegar...if you add some essential oils-lemon is a great cleaner and bug fighter-it'll smell a whole lot better! Also if you cut the vinegar w/water 50/50 it's not as strong smelling and still cleans very well.


zapzipzee 01-30-2013 03:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by prescottchels View Post

I dunno what to tell ya to do about your DH, Zapzipzee, except to maybe lay low about the whole UC thing for a bit. Perhaps if he has time to let it settle in w/o any discussion about it he'll come around...

 

As for cleaning w/vinegar...if you add some essential oils-lemon is a great cleaner and bug fighter-it'll smell a whole lot better! Also if you cut the vinegar w/water 50/50 it's not as strong smelling and still cleans very well.

Thanks!  I had tried putting orange 10X EO in, but I thought it made it smell even worse....  Will try the lemon and dilute!


Alenushka 01-30-2013 07:08 PM

It is your choice of course, but you need to think of your husband career as well. Check your state laws as he can be held liable for providing care outside his professional scope of practice. All  it takes, is one DA who is sticker to the letter of the law to treat your DH as Paramedic and not a husband who happened to be a paramedic during a birth emergency.


zapzipzee 01-30-2013 08:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

It is your choice of course, but you need to think of your husband career as well. Check your state laws as he can be held liable for providing care outside his professional scope of practice. All  it takes, is one DA who is sticker to the letter of the law to treat your DH as Paramedic and not a husband who happened to be a paramedic during a birth emergency.

Nope.  When he's not at work, he's nothing other than a bystander - he cant give drugs, nothing other than first aid/CPR... we dont have any of that stuff at home anyway.  He has to be at work, working under the Physician Advisor's License.  And, he can take family members... unlike doctors.

 

It's become pretty obvious you are not a UC supporter.  This section of the forums is for UC support.  Please take that into consideration if you should chose to post in this thread further.

 

Thanks!


homemademomma 01-31-2013 08:54 AM

I am a UC/UP supporter. That does not mean that I can't be concerned about a particular situation. Polyhydramnios substantially increases your risk of cord prolapse and malpresentation. It is also sometimes associated with congenital problems in the baby.  If you are carrying twins, you need to know if they are di/di, mo/di or mo/mo. This is extremely important. I am sure you have looked into all of this already, but I would be remiss if I didn't bring it up for anyone else who is reading this thread. Not to mention that you have been diagnosed with Pityriasis Rosea, which could present problems for your baby- hopefully not, but it is another risk factor. 

 

If you go to an OB and get an ultrasound, no one is going to force you to change your delivery plans. You can still UC if you want to. But you will be better able to manage your care if you are fully informed.  If you have signs/symptoms that fall outside of the "normal," it is wise to get them checked out. That is why we have midwives, OBs and hospitals! Being a UCer doesn't mean you eschew medical care or diagnostics when it is warranted.


hildare 01-31-2013 09:33 AM

I think it is a very good idea to find out what is happening in your particular situation before you decide to UC.  You are getting some very odd advice here, i see, but how can you plan adequately if you do not even know whether you are having twins, if you are what their situation may be, or if you're measuring large due to a condition like Polyhydramnios?  Could you find another midwife with whom you are happy? 

Also, i think it seems kind of shitty to force your husband to comply with your desire to UC.  you are putting lots of expectations and pressure on him, and if he does not want to be responsible for the myriad of things that could go wrong, then why do you think it is fair to insist that he does?


BlessedJess 01-31-2013 10:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by homemademomma View Post

I am a UC/UP supporter. That does not mean that I can't be concerned about a particular situation. Polyhydramnios substantially increases your risk of cord prolapse and malpresentation. It is also sometimes associated with congenital problems in the baby.  If you are carrying twins, you need to know if they are di/di, mo/di or mo/mo. This is extremely important. I am sure you have looked into all of this already, but I would be remiss if I didn't bring it up for anyone else who is reading this thread. Not to mention that you have been diagnosed with Pityriasis Rosea, which could present problems for your baby- hopefully not, but it is another risk factor. 

 

If you go to an OB and get an ultrasound, no one is going to force you to change your delivery plans. You can still UC if you want to. But you will be better able to manage your care if you are fully informed.  If you have signs/symptoms that fall outside of the "normal," it is wise to get them checked out. That is why we have midwives, OBs and hospitals! Being a UCer doesn't mean you eschew medical care or diagnostics when it is warranted.

 

I would like to point somethings out. The mono-mono di-di issue is rare. Coupled with the fact she does not know she is carrying twins the odds of this are really really small. You have to divide the risk by the chance that she's even pregnant with twins. Which is only a fraction of potential, anyway.

 

And as to the polyhydramnios... Cord prolapse is something that most often happens with artificial breaking of the waters, even without poly. Natural breaking though, can be safer. I myself had PROM with a baby who turned breech after waters broke and was early, born small (3.5 pounds). These things would have put off any doctor and many a midwife, but the reality was, he was safe. He was moving and healthy the whole way through labor and this was easy to confirm with simple observations. I let my body and intuition draw the line, not just going by the raw data. And I was suspecting twins, too. Everything panned out.

 

Now here's something that many people, even some purportedly pro UC people don't understand - intuition, prayer and sixth sense. I really don't believe this woman would even consider UC if there was something wrong and she was getting a bad vibe about the whole thing. I don't think it's anyone's place to tell her to ignore these things or distrust her intuition in favor of tiny statistics.

 

Polyhydramnios is like marginal cord insertion (the marginal cord also happened with my last baby, btw) - it really tells you next to nothing. Chances are, if there's extra water it's because it's normal for that baby or it's the one byproduct of the rash. At any rate, she's right down the street from the hospital if anything goes awry! And she will not be in the dark if prolapse happens. She can feel movement and listen just fine.

 

A lot of UC people are happy to check in to the hospital if they so much as see their shadow and I say, power to them. There is a time and a place for intervention. But I also admire the women who trust their bodies when they feel intuitively and see with personal evidence that their baby is healthy.

 

This is a risk averse society. Just look all around and you will see people trading this half percentage of risk for that quarter percentage risk all the time, as though it's a life and death decision. What's weird to me is the left brain thinking that does not allow for other data points in the equation.


BlessedJess 01-31-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hildare View Post

I think it is a very good idea to find out what is happening in your particular situation before you decide to UC.  You are getting some very odd advice here, i see, but how can you plan adequately if you do not even know whether you are having twins, if you are what their situation may be, or if you're measuring large due to a condition like Polyhydramnios?  Could you find another midwife with whom you are happy? 

Also, i think it seems kind of shitty to force your husband to comply with your desire to UC.  you are putting lots of expectations and pressure on him, and if he does not want to be responsible for the myriad of things that could go wrong, then why do you think it is fair to insist that he does?


Shitty? He was pro UC at the start. Did you miss that? He's just getting an episode of cold feet and you want her to jump ship just for that? That's not fair to her. That's like saying she better find another lover quick if her man was getting cold feet about marriage for a few days.

 

Come on. Who's pregnant here? She is. Who could get birth raped if she goes for intervention? She could. Not him. She's obligated to protect herself and her children from such follies as premature cord clamping or needless surgical procedures and the ensuing risks of infection.


BlessedJess 01-31-2013 11:57 AM

The whole thing reminds me of airport security. Everyone in the airport gets subjected to risks and privacy violations so that they can fly - a safer option to driving. Possibly hundreds have already died because they chose cars over getting groped. I'd still go by car. I chose dignity and human rights over "safety."


R1Jenny 01-31-2013 12:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by prescottchels View Post

Have you checked the birth stories on the main forum? I think there are a bunch of UC ones mixed in. There are definitely a bunch of successful UC twin births out there. I can't really offer much more support than that since I haven't been there myself....  Good luck, mama!!


What I hate is what you won't find is the unsuccessful stories because here they tend to be deleted.  Nothing like skewing the odds in favor of what you support.

 

Seriously this whole situation could be made a lot better if you just went and got an U/S to see whats going on, are you having twins, is there something wrong.


cynthia mosher 02-01-2013 01:52 AM

R1Jenny, your advice to get a U/S to make sure there are no problems is a reasonable post here in the Unassisted Childbirth forum. Regarding your other statement, unsuccessful stories have been deleted in the past at the request of the member who posted her story. This usually occurs not because she does not want her story to be known but because she found it being linked to and/or copied and posted about elsewhere in a very negative, attacking and accusative manner, something that would not be acceptable here at Mothering, no matter what the cause of loss. We always respect the wishes of such a member and remove her story to protect her, not to uphold a "UC at all costs" agenda. 

 

 

A reminder of our forum guidelines:

Quote:
The Unassisted Childbirth (UC) board is a forum of support, respectful requests for information and sharing of ideas and experiences. While we will not restrict discussions only to those who birth without professional attendants, we will actively discourage individuals from posting with no sincere interest in exploring UC. Proselytizing against UC will not be permitted. Controversial subjects of discussion related to UC can be found elsewhere on the internet, and we invite you to seek out other venues for that purpose.

 

Based on this I am removing posting privileges of the members who have posted to this thread in a manner that is not supportive or interest in exploring UC or advising zapzipzee's how to get the support she needs from her husband and that will help her have a safe UC. 


Floretta 02-01-2013 03:42 AM

I your situation I would also want to know whether or not I'm actually carrying twins. There is no definite need for an U/S, though. A midwife (and maybe you or your husband as well) should be able to detect twins with a doppler, or even with a stethoscope. I, too, would find out what's going on, which might also help alleviate your husbands worries. And speaking of intuition and sixth sense, I think your husband deserves to have his intuitions honored as well. In the end you make the decision, but it will be a lot easier if your husband is on board.


zapzipzee 02-01-2013 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floretta View Post

I your situation I would also want to know whether or not I'm actually carrying twins. There is no definite need for an U/S, though. A midwife (and maybe you or your husband as well) should be able to detect twins with a doppler, or even with a stethoscope. I, too, would find out what's going on, which might also help alleviate your husbands worries. And speaking of intuition and sixth sense, I think your husband deserves to have his intuitions honored as well. In the end you make the decision, but it will be a lot easier if your husband is on board.

I actually haven't cancelled my midwife yet.  I wont until DH is once again supportive.  I do not intend to call her when I'm in labor if he remains against it... if he calls her that's his issue, and she can stay in the living room or out in her car.

 

She doesn't think there's any reason to get an ultrasound.  She says she can only "feel" one baby, but cant tell what position its in, and only found one heartbeat, but doesn't really search for a second.  I can find two, but I dont know if they're different heartbeats as we only have one fetoscope, and we cant get either with DH's stethoscope.  She says that I do have a small amount of extra fluid, but then adds that that is common in twins.  I asked when she would be concerned and when necessary to get an ultrasound.  She said if I was one of "those" people who just has to know right now, she'd send me for one, but since I dont want the doppler used, she sees no reason to not just "wait and see."  (I'm currently 26 weeks, so not like we need to know right now, something we will probably be able to know in a couple more months...)

 

DH's latest intuition is that if we UC that we "used" the midwife for her information on the rash (which, since I have so much movement, is a non-issue now).



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