UC w/a breech - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 18 Old 05-26-2013, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hello, ladies. I am not trying to troll, nor start a huge debate or flame in any way. This is a strictly "what would you do?" post, nothing more, and I know that there are folks on here who have done breeches unassisted.

My dear little kid is breech. That explains my bigger measurements (always at the limit of "normal"), my finding the heartbeat at the top of the uterus, the big baby movements at the top of the uterus, and why I keep getting so short of breath. There is a head pushing into my diaphragm instead of legs or a butt LOL! I talked to a midwife today, and had her do a fundal height measurement and listen to baby with a fetoscope. Coincedentally, the midwife's very first delivery was a breech, and she has no issues delivering breeches. I have no problems with having a breech. I am almost 32 weeks and the little kid may well flip around to vertex at some point. I am terrified of a c-section. I would rather have a breechie any day. But.............................

I don't know that I would want to do a UC with a breech. I know ladies on here have done that. I know that Laura Shanley had a footling breech UC with her second child. The midwife today confided that 3 of her kids were UCs and that many of her clients have gone on to do them. She isn't adamantly against UC, but she said that she grew uneasy with the idea of it because of the responsibility it entailed, to monitor yourself and your baby simultaneously, and I can understand that. She also brought up the possibility of head entrapment in case the baby is footling breech instead of butt first...not to scare me, but to inform me.

So, I am wondering what you might do. Would you do a UC with a known breech baby? Like I said, my kid may flip, and I am not against doing an assisted breech birth. Even an assisted footling breech. Also, what if the midwife doesn't get there in time and my husband or I would have to catch a breechie? Anyone have any tips? Or ideal positions? The midwife said her breech positions are kneeling or leaning forward, or sitting upright at the edge of a bed, with your feet flat on the bed, and the baby's body emerging in front of but not on the bed, basically hanging out of the vagina, in midair, supported by someone but letting gravity help pull it out.

Thanks in advance, everyone. I am just looking for ideas/feedback. And, please, pray for me or send good vibes my way. I am going to have an ultrasound done tonight as I have had two painless, mild spotting episodes, and my husband, midwife, and I want to find out what it is. Anyone who has ever had this experience, please tell me about it if you are comfortable sharing. Thanks again!

TizTaz5, wife of a wonderful husband and mother of an angel (lost June '09) and two rainbow1284.gif babies born in July '13. Great things really do come in pairs!
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#2 of 18 Old 05-27-2013, 09:02 PM
 
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I would be very comfortable with UC'ing a breech, much more comfortable than getting a c-section. It sounds like you have a good midwife, and she has given you great advice. So I wish you good luck! smile.gif
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#3 of 18 Old 05-27-2013, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Almi...you have 3 kids born via UC, I think...were any of them breech by any chance?

TizTaz5, wife of a wonderful husband and mother of an angel (lost June '09) and two rainbow1284.gif babies born in July '13. Great things really do come in pairs!
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#4 of 18 Old 05-27-2013, 11:31 PM
 
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Yes, I would give birth unassisted to a breech baby, footling or otherwise. I've heard that upright positions are best, like standing or hands and knees so that gravity can do its thing. Also, water seems to help with breech births, too, maybe because it relaxes the mother? That way the cervix is less likely to shut around the neck before the head is born. Here is a great video:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp&v=jD5939e5PZ8

I would be listening to my intuition very closely to see if i should change position, push the baby out quickly, or whatever else is needed.

There are many unassisted breech stories along with threads about breech babies in this UC forum, just do a search for "breech".
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#5 of 18 Old 05-27-2013, 11:57 PM
 
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I would not be comfortable birthing a breech baby unassisted. While there are plenty of successful homebirth breech birth stories, I feel like many of the homebirth deaths that make the news were breech babies.

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#6 of 18 Old 05-28-2013, 12:05 AM
 
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Phathui--You feel like? Do you know this for a fact? Also, are you a UCer?
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#7 of 18 Old 05-28-2013, 03:56 AM
 
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I have heard of a couple of breech deaths as well with premature babies, babies that probably would have survived in a hospital setting.Is this your first baby? Though I believe in vaginal breech deliveries and am a UCer I would not suggest it for a first birth. Nor would i suggest it for multiples, for the same positioning concerns. Intuition is great, but some if the breech maneuvers need a confident hand. But you have a midwife who's on board and plenty of time for baby to flip. My elder son spontaneously did at 39 weeks. I UPed my second so I wasn't sure of his position but was prepared to UC him breech. When he started coming down I did not push, but let it happen slowly.
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#8 of 18 Old 05-28-2013, 09:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimordialMind View Post

Phathui--You feel like? Do you know this for a fact? Also, are you a UCer?

 

Correction, many of the homebirth deaths that make news were breech babies. The other big thing that's coming up in these deaths (for the head down babies) is prolonged labor. Not a feeling. I was at a meeting recently where this was discussed in terms of safety stats. Granted, they weren't UC deaths, but how many UCs are happening compared to attended homebirths.

 

I'm pro-home birth (heck, I'm a midwife). I'm pro unassisted home birth if that's what someone chooses to do. However, I think ignoring facts and going totally with the "birth is natural and safe" line leads to ignoring things that increase risk. 

 

My fifth baby was an mostly accidental unattended home birth. I used a midwife, because dh felt better having one there and I didn't want either of us to have to clean up. Through no fault of her own, she arrived at my house about 25 minutes after the baby was born. 

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#9 of 18 Old 05-28-2013, 10:47 PM
 
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Thank you for explaining, phathui. Your first post came across to me like you were being flippant and reactive, not supportive. I agree that breech birth can be especially dangerous if a person is ill-informed or uneducated, which is why i encouraged the OP to read the plethora of threads on this forum about breech. If you take a look, you'll see that most of the threads are not birth stories. They are, more often than not, very interesting discussions about the good and the bad in regards to UCing a breech. Many of the discussions are enlightening, eye-opening and thought-provoking.
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#10 of 18 Old 05-29-2013, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you, everyone who has responded to my post. I really do appreciate it.

This is my 1st pregnancy that has come this far. My 1st ended in a miscarriage at 12.5 weeks, and the miscarriage was unassisted. Had there been any complications, of course I would have sought help.

I have reflected a lot in the past few days as to the birth. Of course, I would never attempt a homebirth with a preemie--that is just too far outside my comfort zone, as well as my midwife's--and, when I went to the hospital to check out the spotting I was having, I had a swab test in order to see if preterm labor
was imminent, and it was negative. Many preemies are indeed breech, but, according to the OB who attended me, most full-term babies are vertex--95%, to be exact. So, there is a good chance he will flip. But......

I have listened to my intuition and my baby. I get the sense it is a boy, and a stubborn one at that who will NOT turn unless he sees fit. I myself am a very independent, strong-willed person, so that is where he gets it from. LOL. Also, who knows, maybe he is breech for a reason. At any rate, I am comfortable doing a breech at home with my midwife. The hospital I went to has only 1 OB who attempts vaginal breeches, and there is no guarantee that they will be on-call if I went there for the birth. So, again, thank you for the feedback.

TizTaz5, wife of a wonderful husband and mother of an angel (lost June '09) and two rainbow1284.gif babies born in July '13. Great things really do come in pairs!
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#11 of 18 Old 05-29-2013, 07:51 PM
 
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"The hospital I went to has only 1 OB who attempts vaginal breeches, and there is no guarantee that they will be on-call if I went there for the birth."

 

While it isn't normal practice, it wouldn't hurt to ask that OB if they would be willing to be called in for your birth if the baby is breech at the time of labor. Practitioners will sometimes make exceptions to the call schedule when someone has a need like that.


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#12 of 18 Old 05-30-2013, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, Phathui5, I wasn't aware that one could do that, nor did the hospital offer that suggestion. I wish that I could also use this particular hospital for an emergency transfer, but it is too far. The closest one, the one I would have to use for an emergency, is not a place I have had good results with. They are the place I signed out from AMA when my miscarriage ocurred. If you were having a birth-related emergency, wouldn't they put you in the ob triage instead of the regular ER, with people who have been shot, in car accidents, etc? With the miscarriage, I was kept in the ER the entire time, which very well could explain why it was handled so badly. Anyway.........Here is hoping that I could have a breech birth at home, which is my preference. Thanks again, everyone, for your input, it has been most helpful.

TizTaz5, wife of a wonderful husband and mother of an angel (lost June '09) and two rainbow1284.gif babies born in July '13. Great things really do come in pairs!
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#13 of 18 Old 05-30-2013, 04:41 PM
 
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I would not do it myself.  Considering what happened, Laura Shanley is not a good role model.

 

For me, more than anything, the outcome of a healthy baby and mother is more important than anything.

 

Yes, c-section is scary but not as scary is death or brain damage.

 

 

I would talk to the MW some more, see if any doctor in the area do vaginal TOL in breech cases . But that is just me and my kids are older and  with every passing day that fact that there are hear with me is more important to me than what and how my birth went.

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#14 of 18 Old 05-30-2013, 05:27 PM
 
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Alenushka, Laura Shanley had a wonderful, successful breech birth. I dont know where you are getting your information but it is false (or maybe you are lying?). If you're thinking about her baby that died, the coroner said he would have died regardless of where or with whom she gave birth (his body did not develop properly). Please check your sources before you go around slandering people.

Many people (especially in this subforum) do not agree with the statement that c-sections are the best route for a breech baby. Do you know what subforum you are posting in?
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#15 of 18 Old 05-31-2013, 11:03 AM
 
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Actually, I can't find the coroner's report on line. Ms Shanley reportedly changed her statements. 

 

Many congenital detected when detected early can be repaired at birth and one wonder what was the cause of sepsis and pneumonia in the child so young. Yes, premature babies die in hospitals every day. That is true. but having a child that premature at home means that parents mindfully  increasing risks of death.

 

http://confutata.com/2009/06/14/uc-advocate-changed-story/

 

 

Again, I believe in autonomy be it an adult or child over 12 in making of their own medical decisions. If you  think you can deal with everything and you are prepared for what every outcome fate can bring you, then do what feels right for you.

 

I talked about  possibility of breech with my doctor who did them in the hospital, point by point and I came to a conclusion that it was not for me.  Fortunately, my child turned.

 

You can go to your local health  or do a search on Pubmed yourself.   About 4% of babies are breech. However, a rather large proportion of breech  as you will see form research have various issues ranging form hydrocephalus to other abnormalities  that lead them to be  breech.. Some of the abnormalities can be see on ultrasound and the people present at the delivery can be prepared for a baby with low Apgar score who might needs a little or extensive  extra help.

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#16 of 18 Old 05-31-2013, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Alenushka, you are right, vaginal breech babies are NOT for everyone. I have talked to some ladies in real life here, some who did have vaginal deliveries, some who had c-sections. Right now, I am just keeping an open mind. If I can do it vaginally at home, great! If I can't, then I can't. That isn't me being flippant, it is just how I truly feel. The situation is in God's hands, anyway, at the end of the day. I just wanted to get some feedback from others, and I feel that I have gotten it and feel more secure in what I will do, which right now is try to birth naturally at home with my midwife, who has done several breech deliveries with sucess over a career of 26 years. Many thanks for everyone's feedback. It is appreciated.

TizTaz5, wife of a wonderful husband and mother of an angel (lost June '09) and two rainbow1284.gif babies born in July '13. Great things really do come in pairs!
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#17 of 18 Old 05-31-2013, 10:42 PM
 
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Actually, I can't find the coroner's report on line. Ms Shanley reportedly changed her statements. 

Many congenital detected when detected early can be repaired at birth and one wonder what was the cause of sepsis and pneumonia in the child so young. Yes, premature babies die in hospitals every day. That is true. but having a child that premature at home means that parents mindfully  increasing risks of death.

http://confutata.com/2009/06/14/uc-advocate-changed-story/

I apologize for assuming you were lying. I wasnt aware that she had changed her story, that does seem rather fishy. However, that baby was head down, so it doesnt add to the thread at all. That birth was a case of a mother who should have had prental care and gone to the hospital to give birth. She is such a strong advocate of UC that she took it to an extreme. You cant base one person's stubborness as a reason why you shouldnt UC, especially breech since that had nothing to do with her dead baby.

Again I believe in autonomy be it an adult or child over 12 in making of their own medical decisions. If you  think you can deal with everything and you are prepared for what every outcome fate can bring you, then do what feels right for you.

This isnt in line with your original Laura Shanley comment but whatever.

I talked about  possibility of breech with my doctor who did them in the hospital, point by point and I came to a conclusion that it was not for me.  Fortunately, my child turned.

You can go to your local health  or do a search on Pubmed yourself.   About 4% of babies are breech. However, a rather large proportion of breech  as you will see form research have various issues ranging form hydrocephalus to other abnormalities  that lead them to be  breech.. Some of the abnormalities can be see on ultrasound and the people present at the delivery can be prepared for a baby with low Apgar score who might needs a little or extensive  extra help.

I agree that ultrasounds are useful if you suspect a breech baby since they can help check for abnormalities. I would opt for that if i suspected a breech baby.

OP, I'm glad you feel content with your decision and i hope your birth goes beautifully.
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#18 of 18 Old 06-01-2013, 02:09 PM
 
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I just want to add that I checked the link provided, which speaks about Lauren Shanley changing her story.
She herself wrote a reply in the comment section so I feel it's only fair to post it here:

I have no interest in debating the merits or safety of unassisted childbirth. I have made my thoughts clear on my web site and in my book. It was a personal choice, and you are free to disagree with me. But briefly I will say that I changed my story for two reasons. I was nursing when I conceived Nicholas (and therefore not getting my period), so I cannot say with complete certainty that he was born prior to 37 weeks gestation (although I do think he was early). I changed the comment about the bones in his chest being malformed after researching “protruding chest bones” and discovering that this isn’t a true deformity and generally goes away on its own. But the fact remains that Nicholas died as a result of a congenital heart defect that was severe enough that medical intervention couldn’t have saved him. I know this both from my own intuition and from speaking with the coroner. I was treated very kindly by the paramedics, hospital staff and coroner, and it was never suggested that I was responsible for his death.

That being said, are there babies that have died at home that might have been saved had they been born in the hospital? Yes. But there are also babies who have died at the hospital that might have been saved had they been born at home (and I have letters from mothers who will attest to this). Medical errors are made everyday, especially in the field of obstetrics.

But sometimes a baby dies and no one is to blame. A baby is stillborn in an American hospital every 15-20 minutes. According to a report on my local news, this is double what it was 10 years ago. Some of those deaths most likely could not have been prevented, but some are undoubtedly due to induction of labor, early c-sections and other unnecessary interventions. Yet how many bloggers are questioning the safety of hospital birth? It’s simply easier to attack those of us who give birth at home than it is to seriously take on the medical establishment. I am not anti-doctor but there is something very wrong with the way birth is handled in hospitals and I will continue to challenge it. Unassisted childbirth was the right choice for me. To each their own.
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