Uc to be illegal in Ks? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 18 Old 01-31-2005, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just found out that my state is trying to pass a bill to make a uc a felony in ks. Some people I have talked with say it's only if the baby dies but I see it as even just having a uc. Please read it and let me know what You think- Laura

HOUSE BILL No. 2088
By Representative Mast
1-20
AN ACT concerning crimes and punishment; relating to giving birth
without medical assistance.
Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Kansas:
Section 1. (a) Unlawfully giving birth without medical assistance is
giving birth to a fetus and intentionally refusing medical assistance
or
refusing to seek medical assistance from a health care provider
immediately
after such birth if the fetus does not survive for 12 hours.
(b) Knowledge of a person unlawfully giving birth without medical
assistance is:
(1) Knowing that a person has given birth to a fetus and intentionally
refused medical assistance or refused to seek medical assistance from a
health care provider immediately after such birth if the fetus does not
survive for 12 hours; and
(2) failing to immediately contact a law enforcement agency or
emergency
medical services.
(c) It shall not be a defense to charges arising under this section
that
the defendant believed that the fetus was dead at birth or died before
the defendant sought medical assistance.
(d) Violation of this section shall be a severity level 2, person
felony.
(e) As used in this section:
(1) ‘‘Health care provider’’ means a person licensed to practice
medicine
and surgery by the state board of healing arts, a person who holds
a temporary permit to practice medicine and surgery issued by the state
board of healing arts, a person engaged in a postgraduate training
program
in medicine and surgery approved by the state board of healing arts,
a medical care facility licensed by the department of health and
environment,
a licensed professional nurse, a licensed practical nurse, a licensed
physician assistant, a professional corporation organized pursuant to
the
professional corporation law of Kansas by persons who are authorized by
such law to form such a corporation and who are health care providers
as defined by this subsection, a Kansas limited liability company
organized
for the purpose of rendering professional services by its members who
are health care providers as defined by this subsection and who are
legally
authorized to render the professional services for which the limited
lia-
bility company is organized, a partnership of persons who are health
care
providers as defined by this subsection or a Kansas not-for-profit
corporation
organized for the purpose of rendering professional services by
persons who are health care providers as defined by this subsection.
(2) ‘‘Emergency medical services’’ has the meaning ascribed thereto
in K.S.A. 65-6112, and amendments thereto.
(3) ‘‘Fetus’’ means a 24 week or more term fetus delivered and no
longer in the womb.
(f) The section shall be part of and supplemental to the Kansas
criminal
code.
Sec. 2. This act shall take effect and be in force from and after its
publication in the statute book.
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#2 of 18 Old 01-31-2005, 09:46 PM
 
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That's horrible! Glad we didn't move there when we were planning to. Is there some kind of petition or anything to stop it?

lizzie

It's such a relief to finally trust yourself.
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#3 of 18 Old 01-31-2005, 10:00 PM
 
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If there isn't already one I would start a petition against it. That is stepping on your rights to refuse medical treatment which we all have. We have the choice to allow ourselves to die kwim...

I'm a little confused by this wording though
Quote:
immediately
after such birth if the fetus does not survive for 12 hours
so does this mean that it's only illegal if you have a UC and you don't seek medical assitance if the baby dies within the first 12 hours??
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#4 of 18 Old 01-31-2005, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm in the process of contacting my state representative but other than that I don't know what I can do. I think that if it does pass I will be safe still I'm almost 29 weeks and I think it won't go into effect till summer but I'm still concerned about later births and others rights!-Laura
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#5 of 18 Old 02-01-2005, 06:17 PM
 
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Isn't this unconstitutional? Doesn't EVERYONE have the right to refuse medical treatment for any reason? Doesn't every parent have the right to refuse medical treatment for their children as well? Or has Kansas already thrown that right out of the window?

This should be fought tooth and nail, because once something like this passes, it's downhill for ALL freedom of health-care decisions.
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#6 of 18 Old 02-01-2005, 08:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehndi mama
Isn't this unconstitutional? Doesn't EVERYONE have the right to refuse medical treatment for any reason? Doesn't every parent have the right to refuse medical treatment for their children as well? Or has Kansas already thrown that right out of the window?
What you are looking at here is an anti-abortion law in disguise. This isn't a law intended to prevent UC. It is law intended to criminilize miscarriages.

The idea is that "life begins at conception" and therefore any fetus is a "baby" and therefore any fetus that dies, even because of a miscarriage is a "dead baby" and therefore someone (such as the mother) may be responsible for a "murder" and ought to be investigated.

The proposed KS law is an example of how extremest anti-abortion politics result in eliminating health care choices for pregnant women. The notion is that without oversight of "medical assistance" the fetus might not be protected as a "person" (nevermind the mother since in this worldview she doesn't count).

So in a sense, you are right. The politics of anti-abortion will willingly throw both informed consent and parental rights out the window in the name of protecting a fetus.
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#7 of 18 Old 02-01-2005, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think I'm safe with this birth but I'm totally freaked out about all the posible chain reactions this bill can have. This is a major infrengement of all womens rights in Kansas. It's just chizzling away at it. They had a hearing on it today at 1:30 but I can't get updated info for some reason. I'll keep you all posted!- Laura
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#8 of 18 Old 02-01-2005, 09:30 PM
 
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Is this the second state I've heard about with such a law in the works?? I read about something similar a few weeks ago, but I can't remember if it was Kansas...

This is just awful.

Mama to two crazy boys (8/05 & 9/07) and happy wife to one wonderful hubby.
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#9 of 18 Old 02-02-2005, 02:51 PM
 
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Holy Moley! By definition, one is still guilty - the parent - if using a CPM, DEM or otherwise, too! The parent is not persecuted in any other state by legal means.

KS is, I believe, one of those alegal states. Maybe jumping on the back of something larger, like a homebirth org. will work.
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#10 of 18 Old 02-02-2005, 03:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paloma
KS is, I believe, one of those alegal states. Maybe jumping on the back of something larger, like a homebirth org. will work.
ditto! I would look into some larger organizations that are likely already ralling support against this.

I am anti-abortion and I still think this is way outside what I would consider acceptable anti-abortion laws
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#11 of 18 Old 02-02-2005, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This is the letter that the lobbyist from that the NOW suggest I talk to. Seems to be good news! I'll be keeping track to make sure the wording changes!- Laura


Laura,
First of all, congratulations! Second of all, there's no need to worry. When we first looked at HB 2088, we thought the same thing you did - that it would be a felony to have an unassisted birth. The current wording certainly implies that. However, after listening to the Health and Human Services Committee hearings on the bill, it became clear that this was not, in fact, the intent of the author (Rep. Mast). She admitted that the language was very alarming and has agreed to change it to better reflect the bill's purpose.

This legislation is a response to a number of cases in which infant corpses have been discovered after too much time has passed to determine whether there was a live- or stillbirth. An agent of the KBI testified that if these cases are to be prosecuted, authorities must be be alerted of the situation before too much time passes. In this legislation, the "magic number" is twelve hours. This means that if an infant dies within the first twelve hours after delivery, and no attempt has been made to get medical assistance, the mother and any witnesses could be prosecuted with the level 2 person felony that you referred to.

Basically, this purpose of this bill would be to make mandatory the reporting of infant death within the first twelve hours of life. If a problem were to arise within that time frame, and the mother or a witness did contact any of the medical professionals outlined in the bill, then the situation would be investigated just as it would have been were this law not in place.

There is still a debate around the scope of the bill, with many arguing that it is too broad and would involve more than the intended targets. Questions have been raised regarding the efficacy of this approach, along with concerns as to how such a case would actually play out in court. Several representative on the committee asked these questions during the hearings and will continue to do so during the working of the bill. I am not sure when final action will be taken on this, but if you're interested in how it ends up looking, I would suggest visiting www.kslegislature.org. You can look up the full text of the bill or track its progress in committees. And of course, if you have any more questions, feel free to e-mail me again or call at the number below.

I hope this helps you out, and that your delivery goes beautifully!

Jana Mackey
Lobbyist, Kansas NOW
lobbyist@kansasnow.org
P.O. Box 1061
Lawrence, KS 66044
785.840.5717
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#12 of 18 Old 02-02-2005, 11:11 PM
 
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This was discussed in activism and I think news and current events forum. You might want to do a search. If I remember correctly many of the questions posted here have been answered in other threads.

just wanted to give a heads up.
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#13 of 18 Old 02-16-2005, 07:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyB
What you are looking at here is an anti-abortion law in disguise. This isn't a law intended to prevent UC. It is law intended to criminilize miscarriages.
Actually, there was a big hubub about this on another UC board I frequent, and it was bascially meant for those cases where girls/women give birth unassisted (usually after hiding their pregnancies) and then claim baby was dead and pitch baby in the garbage. In those cases, by the time they recover the body, it is almost impossible for the M.E. to determine if baby was stillborn or died shortly after birth.
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#14 of 18 Old 02-17-2005, 02:10 AM
 
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Hey Laura, how are you? im a volunteered doula. I live in kansas 2. What town do you live in? good luck
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#15 of 18 Old 02-19-2005, 04:24 PM
 
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My understanding is that this stems from a similar bill being introduced in the Missouri state legislature.

The person who introduced it has attended her stepdaughter's homebirth, and was horrified at the thought that it might ban homebirth, and is attempting to get the wording changed. MANA is watching it closely.

Lori
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#16 of 18 Old 02-19-2005, 04:38 PM
 
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Lori, I have been following this closely and also contacted my legislatures about it. Could you please give us some more info about the person who originally introduced this bill? Where did you get the info, because I am really wanting the wording changed.
Thanks
Bianca

And thanks to Laura for bringing our attention to this bill.

Mother to one wild and crazy boy 12/29/2002.
Midwife, Homeschool Educator and Crafter.
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#17 of 18 Old 02-19-2005, 04:44 PM
 
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Anyone interested in midwifery in Kansas, go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/kansasmidwifery/

The discussion of this bill is there, and we would love to have others join, particularly from places outside of the NE Kansas area.

Lori
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#18 of 18 Old 02-20-2005, 10:34 PM
 
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Virginia recently dropped a billl like this after pressure from various groups because

1. faulty wording, it never specified the gestational age of the fetus


2. It is already a crime to dump a newborn, so it wasn't really nesc.

nak

Evergreen- Loving my girls Dylan dust.gifage8, Ava energy.gifage 4 and baby Georgia baby.gif (6/3/11).

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