prevent/treat hemhorrage? - Mothering Forums

Thread Tools
#1 of 9 Old 02-26-2005, 03:28 AM - Thread Starter
cchrissyy's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Berkeley CA
Posts: 2,179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi, I've planned a CNM hospital birth because of fear I would hemorage again. (and homebirth midwives can't take my insurance)

Last time, it happened at the delivery of the palcenta, but I don't know why. It took pitocin and internal uterine massage to stop it (arm inside up to the elbow! Ouch!).

I want to "stay home too long" and do birth unassisted. But what do we do about hemmorage? If it happens and massaging the uterus doesn't make it clamp down, can paramedics get in quick enough and do they carry pitocin?

Berkeley mom of 3 and President of Tender Cargo Baby Gear
and The Nurture Center Store and Resource Center 3399 Mt Diablo Bl Lafayette CA 888-998-BABY
cchrissyy is offline  
Sponsored Links
#2 of 9 Old 02-26-2005, 04:25 AM
Quickening's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Down Under!
Posts: 607
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
PPH occurs when the body does not realise that the birth is over and the placenta is detached. This can happen for lots of reasons, and from what I hear the most common reasons have to do with intervention during birth. Things like cord pulling, cord cutting before the placenta is out, mismanagement of your birth by your care provider, even giving pictoin as soon as your baby is out can cause PPH as well.

It can also be caused by bad diet in pregnancy, but I'm not too knowledgeable about exactly what foods to eat more of. I know that red raspberry leaf/nettle tea during pregnancy can decrease the chances of excessive bleeding.

So what to do you say?

Pictoin is a synthetic form of oxytocin. You can get natural oxytocin by nipple stimulation/breastfeeding.

Eating the placenta, or holding a piece inside your mouth is a sure fire way of signalling to your body "Oi! Placenta is out! Stop bleeding immediately!"

There is also cinnamon tincture, angelicia tincture, cayenne tea/tincture and as a last resort, there is shepherds purse which can cause large clots that are uncomfortable to pass, while the others do not do that.
Quickening is offline  
#3 of 9 Old 02-26-2005, 05:13 AM
Aura_Kitten's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down by the River...
Posts: 6,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
you can also prevent hemmorhage by...

* not forcefully pushing - just letting your body do it's own thing, and
* breastfeeding / stimulating your nipples immediately after birth
Aura_Kitten is offline  
#4 of 9 Old 02-26-2005, 08:22 AM
Attila the Honey's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: swimming with sharks
Posts: 2,614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This happened to me too. I had PIH/HELLP and the placenta wouldn't deliver so I hemorrhaged. My midwife was very hands-off and helped me get the least medical birth I could possibly get with the problems I was having, I really don't feel any interventions were to blame. I tried nursing and she did give it some time, but I was just losing way too much blood. Anyway, I ended up needing an emergency d+c to remove the placenta (after the midwife and the OB both attempted a manual extraction - OW). I was dx'd with placenta accreta right after the birth. I was in the hospital for 6 days and needed a blood transfusion. Then, 9 weeks later I needed another d+c and transfusion because I hemorrhaged 3 more times at home, there was more placenta retained.

So, I am reading this thread with great interest! I'd love another baby but I am very scared of going through that again. I'd want a homebirth, but my fear would be bleeding to death, obviously.


Attila the Honey is offline  
#5 of 9 Old 02-26-2005, 01:46 PM
Desdamona's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Western NC
Posts: 913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would think making sure that you are not anemic prenatally would be a good way to start the prevention of a PPH. A good iron rich diet and or herbal supplimentation. An herbalist friend of mine made a preparation of yellowdock, nettles, RRL and dandelion for me to help increase my iron levels. And NO fiddling with the fundus!! Especially prior to the natural seperation! Look on for more information.

Best wishes for your birth!
Desdamona is offline  
#6 of 9 Old 02-26-2005, 01:53 PM
cottonwood's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I'm interested in what happens when the mother is distracted during third stage. There are so many ways of interfering that are not generally considered "interventive" -- like conversing with the mother, turning the lights on or up, activity (people walking around doing things,) the mother looking to someone for direction, the baby being separated from the mother for any amount of time, the mother feeling like she is the center of attention, etc. Any stimulation of the neocortex interferes with the release of hormones that regulate the process.

Sarah Buckley writes:

"If the environment is not well heated, and/or the mother is worried or distracted, continuing high levels of adrenaline will counteract oxytocin's beneficial effects on her uterus, thereby increasing the risk of haemorrhage (Odent, 1992)."
cottonwood is offline  
#7 of 9 Old 02-26-2005, 02:37 PM
cottonwood's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Swallowing a bit of placenta is reportedly very effective in getting the uterus to start firming up. When women are left to their own devices, often they will without thinking about it gently rub their abdomens, which helps it to firm up. And of course nursing immediately, or even just having the baby up near the breasts, will stimulate oxytocin. No uterine massage should be done until after the placenta is out -- could cause part of it to detach prematurely. No cord traction, which could do the same thing.

It's hard to gauge what is normal blood loss because it's different for everybody. A general rule of thumb though is that if you are soaking two menstrual pads in an hour (not including the initial gush of blood that may come with the separation and birth of the placenta) you are bleeding too much and should seek help. A slower hemorrhage can often resolve itself, as the body expels blood clots over time.

I don't really know how likely it would be to have a fast hemorrhage given that the mother is healthy and the birth process undisturbed, but I would bet my life that it's quite rare. I thought this was interesting, also from the link I posted above:

"Botha (1968) attended over 26,000 Bantu women over 10 years, and reports that "a retained placenta was seldom seen…blood transfusion for postpartum haemorrhage was never necessary." Bantu women deliver both baby and placenta while squatting, and the cord is not attended to until the placenta delivers itself by gravity.

There is some evidence that the practice of clamping the cord, which is not practiced by indigenous cultures, contributes to both PPH and retained placenta by trapping extra blood (around 100ml, as described above) within the placenta. This increases placental bulk, which the uterus cannot contract efficiently against, and which is more difficult to expel. (Walsh 1968)

Other western practices that may contribute to PPH include the use of oxytocin for induction and augmentation (speeding up labour) (Brinsden 1978, McKenzie 1979), episiotomy or perineal trauma, forceps delivery, caesarean and previous caesarean (because of placental problems- see Hemminki 1996)."
cottonwood is offline  
#8 of 9 Old 02-26-2005, 08:10 PM
hawkfeather's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Elphinstone
Posts: 856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i had a sever pph with my third birth.. I feel it was due to the caregiver pulling the cord before the placenta was fully seperated, not to mention they left an iv in my arm.. i hadn't emptied my bladder...there was a number of things they could have noticed.. no fundal massage..not even a check of the fundus to see if it was contracting not a drop of blood was lost after the placenta came..i had a clot blocking the cervix.. than they left the room (i was at the hospital) i started to bleed heavily, with my dh asleep and my poor mother the only other one in the orom.. becasue we had midwives when she rang for help the nurses desk inormed her they didn't like to intervene with midwifery births.. I think i had lost over 2 liters of blood before they even came back to the room...
i had my next at home without incidence.. but after much soul searching.. the fear instilled from the bleed was intense.. nt to mention that the midwives altered my records.. so when my new middies read it did look like i was predisposed to bleed..i had them attend, with no interventions...except the shot of pitocin after the placenta came.. as a precuation.. moslty for my nerves..
this birth is planned to be a UC we have shpard's purse tincture on hand, and arnica and our midwives will come if we need or want them too..mostly though it has more to do with my own mentailty going into it.. having the control over my own body.. half the things that caused my original bleed wouldn't have happened if I had felt more that my care was up too me.. i was in such an uninformed lala land and felt so much my body was *thiers* i didn't even prevent a major complication myself..
hawkfeather is offline  
#9 of 9 Old 02-27-2005, 02:34 PM
mwherbs's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,492
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I love the quotes and research by blueviolet, wonderful.
There have been many good answers to your question. I am not sure why you hemorrhaged the first time. Things you could do is to get plenty of greens every day so you have enough clotting factors even just one salad a day is better than not eating anything green-- but better yet would be several servings of cooked or raw green veggies. Also have on hand for the birth something like yarrow tincture helps to stop bleeding and cotton root bark tincture helps the uterus to contract- it only takes about 1 dropper full under the tongue to help. The absolute best prevention is to bring the baby up to you and really be present with your new little one, smell, feel, breathe .Keep the lights low and stay away from the phone.
Attila the Honey with preeclampsia/HELLP and placenta accreta had a not normal situation- you would not characterize her in pregnancy as healthy- HELLP alone is cause for hemorrhage= high blood pressure and reduced clotting factors which puts her pregnancy a very high risk one- and a definite need for assistance. The belief now is that this problem starts as early as implantation- and how the placenta is near or far from the maternal spiral arteries and if they have the ability to respond to nitric oxide and relax to nourish the placenta--
mwherbs is offline  

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 11,776

21 members and 11,755 guests
anisaer , CathMac , Deborah , emmy526 , IsaFrench , jamesmorrow , K5Family , karencreas79 , katelove , Katherine73 , Lucee , Michele123 , OllyMolly , philomom , roadbeam5 , SammysLittleOne , scaramouche131 , thefragile7393 , zebra15
Most users ever online was 449,755, 06-25-2014 at 12:21 PM.