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#1 of 132 Old 04-10-2005, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This article was published today on the front page of the Bradenton Herald - http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/11356763.htm . While the reporter included obligatory comments from "medical professionals" who oppose UC, I still thought she did an excellent job!

Unfortunately the article was written in response to the death of a woman in a homebirth. The death occurred in Dec., and apparently the state has considered filing charges against the family for practicing midwifery without a license. The family claims this was an intentional unassisted birth (which is legal), and no one acted as a midwife. However, according to the police report (which wasn't brought out in this article), a woman who witnessed the birth claimed that two family members did in fact act as midwives "while two registered nurses assisted with the delivery." While I certainly feel for the family, this doesn't sound like a UC to me! Hopefully this won't discourage other families from having UC's. As I've often said, in a true UC, no one acts as a midwife. The birthing woman herself determines the course of her labor.
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#2 of 132 Old 04-10-2005, 11:25 PM
 
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thank you for the link, laura. i'm off to read the article ~
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#3 of 132 Old 04-10-2005, 11:51 PM
 
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she hemmoraghed and went to the hospital, and died 2 DAYS later? assuming she was in the hospital, and presuming the doctors did everything they could from the beginning to save her, i'm inclined to believe this would have happened whether it was an unassisted birth or not, yk?

and while i believe in the importance of prenatal care, i don't see why this *has* to be necessarily a doctor or a licensed midwife, as it seems the article was implying. rather, i think that an educated mother can do her own prenantal care, and as long as she takes care of herself and is attentive to her health and in tune with her baby everything will be ok.

good article on the whole though, IMO. i doubt it will encourage any other women to try freebirthing their own babies though because to me, it has that undertone of "UC is actually VERY VERY DANGEROUS and YOU SHOULDN'T BE A WEIRDO WHO HAS A DIY BIRTH!"
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#4 of 132 Old 04-11-2005, 12:13 AM
 
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Laure- wonderful article (your input really!)


From the article.

" McGlade was taken by ambulance to the hospital, where she died two days later, according to the coroner's report. She suffered hemorrhagic shock, the autopsy report found, and it was ruled a natural death."


This struck me as interresting because she went to the hospital, obviously bleeding because of the hemmoraging, and 2 days later she died? If the baby were born in the hospital, she would have died anyway. Regardless of where she had the baby, she still would have died. "the autopsy report found, and it was ruled a natural death." This means she would have died under anyone's care, anywhere, regardless of the circumstances. The coroner would have been specific to the death if it were related to the birth specifically. Kwim?
I am only pointing this out because I really hope no mama gets scared of UC because of this story.
It is a hugely tragic event that mothers and babies die in childbirth, and this article points to the fact that people die of natural causes.
I think the article is biased and politicizes homebirth. Mothers and children die all the time in hospitals, yet never make the 5 o'clock news.
You would never hear about it, unless you read the obituaries.
When was the last time you read about someone dying from giving birth in the hospital?
Perhaps this is just another way the obstetrical profession has coerced the medial to keep their maltreatment and failures at bay.

But that is just me and my conspiracy theory.

Mama to 5 babies. UCer, too!
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#5 of 132 Old 04-11-2005, 01:49 PM
 
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Oh god, not the ACOG study rearing its ugly unscientific head again. I'm beginning to hate ACOG...
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#6 of 132 Old 04-11-2005, 03:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds
Oh god, not the ACOG study rearing its ugly unscientific head again. I'm beginning to hate ACOG...

know thy enemy... :LOL

Mama to 5 babies. UCer, too!
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#7 of 132 Old 04-11-2005, 04:46 PM
 
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Hey if she died 2 days later maybe the hospital screwed up in their management of her haemhorrage and THEY killed her!
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#8 of 132 Old 04-11-2005, 06:08 PM
 
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ita

Mama to 5 babies. UCer, too!
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#9 of 132 Old 04-11-2005, 06:46 PM
 
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that's kind of what i was thinking Quickening....
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#10 of 132 Old 06-01-2006, 05:41 PM
 
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I have to say these posts are just about the most idiotic things I have ever read. "Natural Death" means it would have happened no matter what? Huh?
If you get her to the hospital and she dies two days later then it wasn't preventable? Huh?

Bleeding to death is a "natural" death. If I person loses enough blood, however they lose it, childbirth or whatever, and it is not treated soon enough...there can be just not enough blood in your body to bring oxygen to your tissues. It is entirely likely this woman would have lived if she had medical care sooner. Cells die if they don't get enough blood for a long period of time. No matter how good a hospital is if someone has lost enough blood for long enough it is very possible she could not be saved, but could have been if she had been brought in sooner. There IS a point of no return.
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#11 of 132 Old 06-01-2006, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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An article about the trial can be found here - http://www.courttv.com/trials/taped/...round_ctv.html

It's possible that this woman might have lived had she been in the hospital. But this doesn't prove that homebirth is inherently dangerous or that those of us who support it are idiots. There is plenty of evidence proving that in most cases homebirth is safer than hospital birth.
Laura
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#12 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 02:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laurashanley
An article about the trial can be found here - http://www.courttv.com/trials/taped/...round_ctv.html
So the only thing they did to prevent death from bleeding (from what this article says) is holding hands and praying? That's NOT the practice of midwifery.
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#13 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 03:53 PM
 
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I think this woman would probably have lived if she had a competent midwife or even a caring husband.

All they had to do was get her to the hospital and she most likely would have lived. I have to say almost CERTAINLY would have lived. These things are very treatable if the patient has not lost all her blood volume already. Her mother is on tv now, and she believes that the husband and the "midwives" ( they don't deserve to be called that ) actually wished the mother harm. This woman's first baby was breech, born at home, she bled afterward and was transported to hospital and was given blood and survived. The second time around the same birth attendants did not take her to the hospital or call 911 until she was unconcious (recent testimony four hours ) after birth.

No matter where you stand on UB, homebirth or hospital birth--this was preventable. And very suspicious.
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#14 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 04:04 PM
 
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Prosecutor "this was not an unassisted home birth"

They did vag exams, put olive oil on her cervix?, listened to heart tones, wore scrubs, there is a lot more than that, but they were clearly acting as midwives. Again, paramedics were not called for four hours. I think if she had been by herself with a telephone she would have done better.
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#15 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 04:25 PM
 
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They do their own births, own school and now their own defense attornies!

If only you could dig your own grave....whoops...I think they have.
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#16 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamabearing
No matter where you stand on UB, homebirth or hospital birth--this was preventable. And very suspicious.
As much as I believe that women should be free to give birth wherever and with whomever they want, I agree that this birth wasn't handled properly, and I have a hard time coming to these womens' defense. It's also too bad that this birth will reflect badly on both unassisted birth and midwife assisted birth (in some people's eyes, anyway).
Laura
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#17 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 04:50 PM
 
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I so agree watching this trial. All the evidence makes it look like she truly would probably have lived if she was alone with a phone. It was the fact she trusted her husband, and these two women, to act ih her best interest that kept her from saving her own life. She probably thought they were doing what they needed to do to save her.

Yes, I agree, it will reflect badly on home birth. But it shouldn't any more than those rare stories of homicidal doctors and nurses should reflect on hospitals. I do think, watching Court TV, they are getting the point about what really happened here.

BTW it wasn't your original post I made the "idiotic" comment about. It was the idea that the fact she lived two days in the ICU ( which apparently was entirely on life support ) meant the hospital could have saved her. That was just a very ignorant statement. The other thing that got me was the "natural death" meaning not preventable.
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#18 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 05:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamabearing
I so agree watching this trial. All the evidence makes it look like she truly would probably have lived if she was alone with a phone. It was the fact she trusted her husband, and these two women, to act ih her best interest that kept her from saving her own life. She probably thought they were doing what they needed to do to save her.


Had she been allowed to dial a phone, do you think she would have let herself bleed to death of a retained placenta? I think the whole THING is very fishy.
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#19 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 05:41 PM
 
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I am curious about the now dead woman's mother's contention that there was some sort of desire on their part for the woman to die. She says the father has acted very strangely since the death. He didn't want his wife's body....and has seemed untouched by her death.

I actually don't think they wanted to kill her. I think they just didn't want to get "caught" and put their own interest in not transporting her above her interests and were criminally stupid.
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#20 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 05:43 PM
 
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[QUOTE=Chantelhayes]

Had she been allowed to dial a phone, do you think she would have let herself bleed to death of a retained placenta?

No, I really think she would have lived. Sounds like there was plenty of time to save her life.
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#21 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 06:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamabearing
No, I really think she would have lived. Sounds like there was plenty of time to save her life.
I totally agree. The more I read and watch on this, the more I wonder about what their motivation was? Why transport her the first time and then leave her to die the second? ANY midwife working in that capacity would have transported her. Myself as a UCer would have done multiple things, but if I were still bleeding out at the 1-2 hour mark I would have called 911 myself. When I first started delving into this, I thought the "midwives" had acted in an appropriate manner, she had still died, and the authorities were taking it out on the women who attended her. However, now it seems to me that they were NOT acting appropriately at all. Not as any midwife I have ever known would have acted, in any case.
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#22 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Chantelhayes
So the only thing they did to prevent death from bleeding (from what this article says) is holding hands and praying? That's NOT the practice of midwifery.
Medical attention was never denied.
When a mother decides to have a Medically Unassisted Childbirth, she does not mean "a homebirth with a Midwife". It means she only wants her support team or some mothers prefer to be completely alone.
Why should anyone be punished?
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#23 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 07:49 PM
 
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She chose them to provide care at the birth. They did vag exams, perineal massage, used a doppler to listen to heart tones....

Afterward they gave her a gatorade enema (huh?) fed her soup with a bulb syringe until she lost conciousness. Four hours after baby born, and apparently quite a long time after she was no longer concious, they called 911.

She would be better off with no midwife than these two pretending to be.

Seriously, she would have been.
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#24 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laurashanley
An article about the trial can be found here - http://www.courttv.com/trials/taped/...round_ctv.html

It's possible that this woman might have lived had she been in the hospital. But this doesn't prove that homebirth is inherently dangerous or that those of us who support it are idiots. There is plenty of evidence proving that in most cases homebirth is safer than hospital birth.
Laura
Quote:
Mara McGlade died two days later.
Quote:
Florida law...it does not prohibit someone from having a home birth without the help of a doctor, nurse or midwife
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamabearing
She chose them to provide care at the birth. They did vag exams, perineal massage, used a doppler to listen to heart tones....
They did not break the law.
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#25 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 08:34 PM
 
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They were practicing midwifery without a license. I watched a lot of the trial and you'd have to have a very skewed take on the evidence to think they were not.

Had they NOT acted as midwifes the mother would be better off.

She would have gotten real help.

The fact they kept "treating" her and she thought she was getting care is what brought her to the point of no return. She would have gotten herself on the phone for help had they not been acting as midwives. Better to have NO professional at a birth than a pretend one.
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#26 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 08:45 PM
 
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They were acting as her midwives IMO, why else were they wearing scrubs. I think they failed this woman and so did her husband. Please if I'm bleeding to death do more than pray, sorry but that just pisses me off. This woman is now dead and her children no longer have their mother.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#27 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 08:50 PM
 
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I know that's what you meant though. I agree the husband was very much at fault too.
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#28 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 08:53 PM
 
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You are right and I didn't mean that after they prayed they didn't do other f'ed up things , none which was to actually save the woman.
Just as a disclaimer there is nothing wrong with praying if that is part of your beliefs but along with that these people should have actually tried to save the dieing woman's life.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#29 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 09:01 PM
 
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He is the commentator with the ponytail. His take was that if she had a right to an unassisted childbirth then it was ok for these psuedomidwifes to practice without calling themselves midwives.

It really made me mad because she truly probably would have been safer if they were not there at all. They gave her a false sense she was being taken care of. I wished I could have called in. It really bothered me. This issue is at the heart of practicing any profession without a license.
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#30 of 132 Old 06-02-2006, 11:34 PM
 
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They were practicing midwifery without a license.
And that should be entirely legal.

In any case, no, it clearly wasn't an unassisted birth.
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