why shouldn't i take some cohosh?..... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 20 Old 10-20-2005, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok, I cant be pregnant anymore :LOL

Besides all the cant breathe cant sleep cant walk cant take care of my children, no one will help me blablabla I am worried about the size of the baby.

Last baby was 4 days past EDD, we decided with MW to do blue and black cohosh tinctures and I went into labor within hours. (My water had been broken 72+ hours and she was getting reaaaaaaaly stressed about it)

The baby was ELEVEN pounds and she says he had shoulder dystocia, although through talking to DH and my memories and some things you all have shared with me, I believe he was just huge and slow.

BUT I am scared, it was scary, DH is a bit scared, and when i tried on my belly cast from last time @ 40 weeks, I am bigger than that now. (I know not scientific whatsoever but still....)

I refuse to measure fundal height anymore because I was getting 40-50 depending on what time of day it was and it seems very useless.

I also had Pre-Eclampsia with baby #1 but that was along time ago and i really did think doritos were a good lunch : and now I eat very healthy


I know about trust birth, I know about babies taking their own time to cook, I know I know I know.........
B U T

why shouldnt I take the cohosh???

is it dangerous? Does it cause meconium? i guess i need some stories about why it is bad or else i may go for it this weekend.

40 weeks tomorrow........
stressed out Mama
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#2 of 20 Old 10-20-2005, 02:37 PM
 
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stress is a big labor inhibitor...
I would say try castor oil first-- it has been in use far longer -- more recent studies although few and far between show it is effective and even increased the chances a woman would give birth via pit induction after use. the stuff in it does not cross the placenta so babies born with mec after castor oil induction is not from the castor oil but probably age or other indications for induction in the first place.
the other thing I would do is put a belly band on - it will help to hold the baby in a position to put more pressure on you cervix with a well lined up baby labor is more likely to start. what I like to use is a twin sheet folded length wise so that it is 1/4 wide - the middle goes in the front and you tie it in back some gals can wrap it around and tie in front so what ever works for you- the bottom edge should touch the top of your hips- you want to be comfortable but pull the baby in some it will usually help reduce low back pain . or you can get a commercial belly band on line and some Walmarts have them
for you nerves consider some thing like chamomile tea, deliberate relaxation and good sex....
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#3 of 20 Old 10-20-2005, 04:33 PM
 
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I took cohosh when my cervix wasn't going anywhere after about 20 hours. It completely stalled my labour. When I stopped taking it, my contractions picked back up again. :LOL

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#4 of 20 Old 10-20-2005, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I dont want to do castor oil, but thank you for the response. I have heard too much bad stuff about it, and with my poor bum already so messed up with hemmorroids, i have no interest in diarrhea--- it kills me just to sit on the toilet.........

I dont want to stall labor either!


just having a hard day today.
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#5 of 20 Old 10-20-2005, 05:28 PM
 
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The end can be really hard. I hope you can take some time right now just for you. Soon enough you'll be meeting the intense needs of a new baby. Can you get your best friend since 1996 to watch the kiddos while you go do something you really love? Or get a friend/relative/sitter to watch your kiddos while you and DH go do something together to reconnect. Trip to the hot tubs (zero gravity will feel good!), walk and picnic in your favorite park, priceline yourself a fancy hotel for just the two of you overnight, etc. Or perhaps going out with a girlfriend to shop, massage, pedicure or something? Just do something you'd really enjoy with or without company!

Also, you might want to set a lunch date with a fun friend for a couple days from now and then to meet again a week later. Why not have something else to look forward to besides birth? You deserve it!

I hope your day turns around and you get some good rest, good food and a lots of hugs from your family.
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#6 of 20 Old 10-20-2005, 05:33 PM
 
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ok
cohoshes could work but I have found they don't work as well.
You know my own last baby was 12 lbs and I stopped measuring too- I couldn't drive a car because belly was touching the steering wheel when I was close enough to use the petals.
very first thing in the am take some time to really look at that rising sun and pray- let the rest of the world stop , you stay focused and envision the day to come-
are you taking any b vitamins?
singing- singing for me has always lifted my spirits and smoothed things over for the time-

sending a big hug
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#7 of 20 Old 10-21-2005, 10:15 AM
 
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Oh, it's so hard to be ready and miserable, isn't it? My last pregnancy went to 43 weeks, and I can assure you...I know where you're at!

I am biased against any kind of induction (that is not for a *clear* medical benefit)...medical or "natural"...for a simple reason. If it works, then that means your body was close to spontaneous labor anyway. If it doesn't work, you haven't gained anything except disappointment. BUT...in mind the biggest risk is if it KIND of works. Just like with a pit induction, your risks of certain things skyrocket. The baby can easily be malpositioned for one, which can cause a longer, more painful labor. You can have stop and start labor that can last for much longer than it would otherwise. But worst of all is the possibility that labor with start but never really take off. I know of many woman who've done this and have had trouble maintaining productive contractions. And don't forget that, even at 40 weeks, you can't be sure your baby is ready. Mine would not have been. He was 8 lbs 10 oz at 43 weeks!

In the end, any inducation puts you at higher risk for the need for intervention.

If you can hang on just a little bit longer you will avoid those risks. A month, year, a decade from now you might be so glad for having waited!

Tracy, doula and Army wife and homeschooling mama to A and E
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#8 of 20 Old 10-21-2005, 12:24 PM
 
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I did cohosh and had great results with it. The instructions were in the wise womans herbal: a guide for the childbearing year. You start with one until your cervix is ripe, then you add the second to start contraction. when your cervix is ripe you discontinue the other and keep taking the contraction one until your contractions are strong and regular. I tried castor oil and beside making me throw up and crap a lot it did nothing. I also used nipple stim with the cohosh which helped. especially since I couldn't take the cohosh once my midwife got there (shew as all gun hoe about going 4 weeks over. totally not comfortable with that but she wasn't open to discussing anything but her way.)

anyway it tok about 12 hours to really get into real labor. and mixing it with water did nothing fo rme. I had to put it under my tounge. it was so nasty but I was so done being pregnent and if this didn't work I was going to march into a hospital and demand an induction. I have prenatal depression and it gets wore as pregnancy goes along and turns into paranoia, OCD all kinds of fun stuff. it decreases significantly once the baby is born and lifts entirely by the time she is about 4 weeks old. So an induction really seems like the least of my worries by week 42!! with my last I had decided to beg for an induction at my next prenatal visit. i ended up giving birth in her office during that visit. woohoo. I wasn't realy keen on admitting what a fruit lop i had become. I have faced it more since then and now understand that I need help when pregnant.

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#9 of 20 Old 10-22-2005, 01:19 AM
 
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Cohoshes can help, but they can also really hurt. The *only* way I would ever touch a cohosh again would be in its homeopathic form.

I did blue cohosh homeopathically with DS, and it turned a putzy labor into a better labor. Then the midwives came over, told me I should have taken blue AND black. I didn't do black b/c I take homeopathy seriously, and the black cohosh didn't match me or my "symptoms". Then they BLASTED me with blue and black tincture, and it made it absolutely unbearable...started a whole long thing of "natural" interventions, so when I do a UC it'll be a UBAC, directly linked back to listening to someone tell me to take blue AND black, and take a tincture instead of just letting things alone or just taking one homeopathic.

From the way my body dealth with the tinctures, I just wouldn't do it, and can't ever recommend the tinctures...



When my MIL was approaching 44 weeks, she and FIL went dancing. That did it, and she Birthed my hubby at last.
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#10 of 20 Old 10-22-2005, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So what happened? My mind is so foggy lately but can you tell a little more about how taking the tinctures went bad for you?
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#11 of 20 Old 10-23-2005, 01:50 AM
 
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#12 of 20 Old 10-23-2005, 05:41 AM
 
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This is long, but isn't anywhere near the entire story. It might sound like one of those "horror" stories, but that's not how it's intended. I should have gone UC and intend to UBAC in the future; I was ridiculous for giving so much (all) of my power away, and that started the day I peed on the stick my husband brought home b/c he was tired of me going back and forth (he KNEW I was pregnant and should have just continued to TELL me that I was...the stick-peeing changed my entire way of thinking about pregnancy) as to whether I was or not.

Not everything I've written is exactly relevant to you. But it was related, in some way, to the cohoshes. I don't want to just write what happened and blame it ALL on the cohoshes, so I've tried to give a fair and brief-as-possible rundown of the things surrounding the cohosh use.

I'm sorry even my intro is long LOL.

Also a lot of this won't be relevant b/c it was solely due to my hired help (and my giving away power to them) interfering every.single.step.of.the.way. You won't have that, so you will be infinitely better off.



As background, I was bullied into a "natural" induction. I later found out that all the women in my family have long pregnancies, and in fact my husband was a 44 week baby. I knew the pregnancy was going to go long, from almost as long as I'd been pregnant I knew this.

And I WANTED the pregnancy to go as long as it needed to. I was terribly uncomfortable, everything hurt, I thought about living on the toilet, I could barely eat b/c of heartburn but I was famished all the time...it went on and on. But I was really commited to letting the baby go as long as needed, and *thought* I'd hired the right people.

I didn't. The bullying began at 40 weeks (I had hired them at 25+ weeks, with post-dates being a HUGE part of my interview with them).

After EPO for days and incredibly uncomfortable sex, a putzy labor started. A day or so later I got some homeopathic blue cohosh (thoroughly reading about it and the black cohosh in the Materia Medica at the health food store, all the while contracting), and it started to get things going a bit more solidly. Things felt like they were moving along and starting to groove.

We called the hired help and they made their way to me. As soon as they gave me the dose of b/b tincture the contractions got OUT of control. They felt simply painful and UNproductive, they felt like torture. I've lost a lot of the memories; I'd been taking notes in between contractions b/c I'm like that, but the hired help made it clear they didn't approve and eventually I stopped out of shame that I could write between contractions.

Anyway, the pain was horrendous, but it didn't feel like it was DOING anything. It was just hurting.

At last I needed sleep, and they convinced me to take some herbs so I could rest. Opposite effect, the herbs caused panic attacks, and *just* enough sleep so the contractions would be MIND BLOWING and wake me in the middle of them, rather than feeling the ramp-up. That indicates I did get a few minutes of sleep, but I finally came out from under those herbs more exhausted and scared than before.

Of course then things slowed down again, but I was "on the clock" (a clock I'd been assured didn't exist beforehand, just as I'd been assured they just adored post-dates babies and wouldn't even TALK about NSTs until *after* 42 weeks) so they had to start things up again. More b/b tincture, and more mind-blowing, just painful, so painful I couldn't do anything to help, contractions.

Ultimately they convinced me to take the "slow-down" herbs again, I had more panic attacks and less sleep, then it went into the 4th day of funky slow labor, they convinced me of AROM and oops found meconium (which I'm quite positive happened b/c of the cohoshes and/or other herbs (motherwort, crampbark, and some jamaican something in place of valerian which had mysteriously gone missing after talking me into it)), tornado'ed me into a transfer which I fought for over an hour, the doctors insisted on surgery which I fought for 6 hours....


If I hadn't been bullied into those "natural" induction methods, I'm quite sure labor would have started much better, when baby wanted it to. He likely would NOT have started labor while posterior, with one or both hands at his cheek. (I realized those things AFTER it was all over, though it would have been most excellent to know of the malposition DURING labor, when it could have been accomodated, changed, or just dealt with knowledgably)

I have a friend who had had prodromal for weeks and weeks. She and her OBs finally wanted to get things moving, to end the prodromal. Membranes swept and eventually some augmentation with pit (on a VBAC). It all ended well, with her having a wanted epidural and pushing out a baby, but the baby was occiput transverse, which must be very difficult to push out. I believe that the prodromal was the baby trying to move, thinking about starting labor but not quite wanting to yet due to position, and if left to start labor on her own, baby would have done so AFTER moving into a better position.

That's my belief, you can ignore it.


But really, baby will start labor when s/he is ready. I know it's rotten right now. From my experience (and my MIL's) the stretchmarks are really coming out right now (MIL's first baby was over 10 pounds (6 day UC in rural Korea, by the way!!!) but she was unmarked from that pregnancy; her second baby was her 44 week baby, and was well under 9 lbs, but that's where she got the stretchmarks, ugh), I know you can't walk, probably can't eat, etc etc etc....but baby's working right now, trying to finish things up! In the absence of a clear BIG reason to bring on labor, I urge you to let baby be.
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#13 of 20 Old 10-23-2005, 07:22 AM
 
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I have seen enough stories on MDC and a few other places that I am unconvinced of possible harm from either cohosh or castor oil...But the thing is, if you try to induce and it doesn't work, you're just going to be that much more grouchy and uncomfortable.

Sabra: Mama to Bobbie (3/02), Linda (1/04), Esther (10/05), Marie (11/10), & Douglas (11/12)

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#14 of 20 Old 10-23-2005, 08:22 AM
 
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My midwife recommended castor oil to me for prodromal labor. I told her I was worried about xyz happening and she said that those things only happened with cohosh. Now I'm an avid avoider. Perhaps as an abortifacient or emergency contraceptive, but not for labor induction.
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#15 of 20 Old 10-24-2005, 03:22 AM
 
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I thought that one color of cohosh was very bad for you? I seem to remember reading mainstream articles somewhere about how one was beneficial in someway and the other was toxic? Drat, I'll be right back
....
..
.
From:
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/BlackCohosh.asp
There is a case report of neurological complications in a postterm baby after labor induction with a mixture of black cohosh and blue cohosh (Caullophylum thalictroides) during a home birth [25].

Other cases of adverse outcomes experienced by neonates born to women who reportedly used blue cohosh to induce labor have been published in peer-review journals [26,27].

25 Gunn TR, Wright IM: The use of black and blue cohosh in labour. New Zealand Medical Journal 109: 410-411, 1996. [PubMed abstract]

26Finkle RS, Zarlengo KM: Blue cohosh and perinatal stroke. New England Journal of Medicine 351: 302-303, 2004.

27 Jones TK, Lawson BM: Profound neonatal congestive heart failure caused by maternal consumption of blue cohosh herbal medication. Journal of Pediatrics 132: 550-552, 1998.

And a rebuttal:
http://www.naturalchildbirth.org/nat...or/labor38.htm
from the midwife of the first lady mentioned.


If you must induce, start with sex.
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#16 of 20 Old 10-24-2005, 04:36 AM
 
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my dear,
my baby was born '3 weeks "overdue"... or so we thought.. she was born with vernex, the lotion that's on a baby until the 39th week... and her perenium area (sorry for my ignorance of exact term...) was open, it had not yet closed... !! so was she really late???????? (oh ya, I had taken castor oil b/c she was soooooo 'late'!!

good luck with your research!
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#17 of 20 Old 10-24-2005, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you , everyone.

I will let this baby grow. I never ever thought I would turn so impatient, I guess this being my first UC and UP, this is the time when you get SO much "care" (interference) from Ob's and Midwives, and it feels soooooo different to just have nothing. Just to live and go to bed at night without vaginal exams and tests and measures-----it is REALLY freeing but it is soooooo different, it feels so odd.

The baby moves ALOT and I will just continue with my life, I guess! I am so worried about the size of the baby, thats all.

As far as sex, it just burns and feels stupid and horrible, but we have been finding other ways for at least me to have my fun.so no sperm but definately orgasms........ hee hee which do give me hard contractions but only for a minute or so.

ok ill be in touch!!
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#18 of 20 Old 10-27-2005, 01:27 AM
 
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I still think we need an "eye-waggle" smiley.
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#19 of 20 Old 11-12-2005, 03:53 AM
 
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I was very pleased with the effect of homeopathic blue cohosh and black cohosh tincture in my labor. I think, though, that the induction only worked because I was ready to go.

Given what the allopathic stuff can do to babies and mamas, I tend to accept the fact that very rare instances of bad outcomes will happen with herbs. Doing anything is a risk, but sometimes you reach a point where it's worth the risk. JMHO.
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#20 of 20 Old 11-12-2005, 11:49 PM
 
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Mama to 4- how ya doin'?
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