help a local baby was taken away for having a uc! - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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#181 of 394 Old 04-12-2006, 07:29 PM
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CPS has scared the sh*t out of them. They know that they could show up at any time and if the parents aren't complying with the form, (puts on CPS costume) oooo free baby! *drooldrool* Job justification and bonuses abound! (rips costume off) (hmm.. that's an idea for a hallowe'en costume - except I think it'd scare the parents!)

Once they have a toe hold on any family, they can and do make their lives miserable. They'll have mandatory councelling to attend. They may have to take drug tests. Have the child attend mandatory "well baby visits" and get all her shots on time. They'll have to explain every single bruise, bump, puncture and more and if they can't come up with an adequate explanation, they'll be under even more scrutiny. If CPS feels really brutal, they can demand the child undergo a "child abuse investigation" which involves xrays, physical and internal exams and more. Psycological exams of both parents and the kids. Mandatory councelling... and more.

All to keep CPS off their backs.

My recommendation: go to their doctor, get the exam done at his office NOW. Get appointments for councelling from someone not on their payroll.

See, they can demand you do things with their outsourcers, but that doesn't mean you have to comply!
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#182 of 394 Old 04-12-2006, 07:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamid
Time limits. "Taking longer" can and has resulted in parents loosing custody because of arbitrary time limits. If you can't prove your case while your child is in care by the time the time limit ends, they will terminate your parental rights.
The time limits were put in place to prevent children from living out their lives in foster homes while their bio-parents ignore their existence. Parents asserting their rights, stating formally that they retain medical/educational decision-making rights, etc., regardless of custody, do not have time limits. If you know of any statutes to the contrary I would love to see them, because this is typical of the b*ll that CPS wants parents to believe.
I know of three older children in foster care whose mother has refused to relinquish them since infancy. They are not eligible for adoption because their mother is fighting for them (even though in this particular case, it might be better if parental rights were relinquished, because mom does in fact have problems and does not seem capable of geting her life in order). Time limits, AFAIK, apply to abandonment cases only. Which doesn't stop CPS (as well as lazy lawyers) from using them to frighten people.

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Right now, they have the baby. They have to be careful. If they aren't, they could lose their child for good.
I believe that is precisely the perspective that enables CPS to get away with the crimes it commits.

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CPS has scared the sh*t out of them.
Exactly.
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#183 of 394 Old 04-12-2006, 07:37 PM
 
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One of the problems in situations like this is that often CPS retains LEGAL custody even though the parents actually have the baby. Not sure if that's the case here, but it's possible. And it should be noted that the problem here is that the parents let CPS in in the first place. Never NEVER cooperate without a search warrant.

-Angela
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#184 of 394 Old 04-12-2006, 08:50 PM
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Okay.. CPS BC. Called MCFD. This is Canadian, but others are similar.

The child had been in foster care for just under two years when a Continuing Care (not Permanent Care) order was issued with the judge stating that family reunification could still happen, but access "at the discrection of the Director". (read: social worker) At the mother's next visit, mom is handed a "birth parent" form (booklet about 20 pages long) to fill out in front of the social worker. Mom is shocked. She is told that the social worker wasn't going to let the child go up for adoption by asking for an exemption. Mom refuses to fill out form and asks for it to be brought home so she could read it. Social worker refuses. Mom has complied with all the councelling, all the court dates, all the restricted visits and more trying to get child back and is now told that there is still a chance. This is October.

Mom goes and sees lawyer. Lawyer tells her not to appeal but to instead see if the other party appeals. Mom thinks this is a bad idea but follows lawyer's orders.

Mom sees social worker and other party in a joint conference. Mom gets called nasty names by other party. Social worker is "shocked" by the display. This is the last day Mom sees other party. December.

By May, all visits are cancelled. No reason given.

August, mom sees social worker for the last time. Is told that child is being adopted by a family. That three are interested in child. Mom is furious. Mom calls lawyer. Lawyer says its now too late to appeal.

January: last visit mom has with child.

The legislation says that a child in Continuing Care is put into the adoption pool. It used to be permanent care but the laws were changed to get kids "out" of foster homes.

At no time during any of the previous visits with the social worker or the lawyer was the mother told that the child could be at risk for parental rights termination and adoption. Looking up the legislation, she is horrified to find out that she was a year too late already when the Continuing Care order was issued.

3 years later, mother finds out that child was finally adopted. Mother horrified to find out that foster mother adopted child even after the break up of her relationship with her spouse (the foster mother) and was in the process of adopting another child AND marrying a new man. Mother wonders why she wasn't allowed to attempt to get her child back or even contacted when letter after letter had been sent to MCFD and were never answered.

So, it does happen. I should know. I'm the mother.

The only bit of good I can take from the entire thing is that ODD is an honour student and has had no contact with my biob*ch.

I've been in contact with other people who have fought for their children. I've heard of the time limit again and again. The general gist I get is that CPS stretches out court cases and "time needed to fix X" so that the time limit runs out.

Not good.
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#185 of 394 Old 04-12-2006, 08:57 PM
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Yeah.. Legal custody... Do the parents have that? I don't think so if she has been ordered to not breastfeed.

And be carefull about guardianship. They might have that as well.
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#186 of 394 Old 04-12-2006, 09:48 PM
 
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Mamid, that's horrible that they stole your baby!
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#187 of 394 Old 04-12-2006, 09:50 PM
 
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Ok conspiracy theory here: Could they be doing this to get kids adopted to parents who want kids? Does that make since? Like are they doing this so people can get babies? Or is that just me being paraniod??

H

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#188 of 394 Old 04-12-2006, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Pam_and_Abigail
Mamid, that's horrible that they stole your baby!
Don't cry.

I take comfort that biob*ch doesn't have her. You should too.

I also take more comfort that she hasn't seen DS or DD either.
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#189 of 394 Old 04-12-2006, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mamaofthree
Ok conspiracy theory here: Could they be doing this to get kids adopted to parents who want kids? Does that make since? Like are they doing this so people can get babies? Or is that just me being paraniod??

H
You're not the only one with this conspiracy or myth.

Other similar ones:

If you're a foster kid, even if you had a "good house" growing up, you are labelled at risk for child abuse. So if you have kids, the chance of you loosing them skyrockets if they get called. Nice huh? Set up generational families that need CPS's "help."

If you had one kid removed, you don't deserve to have any others, no matter what the reason the first one was taken.

That only drug users and serious child abusers have their children taken not families that are a little "weird.":

If you live in poverty, your children can be taken for "neglect" even if you are providing what you can with the resources you have.

More single mothers than families with two parents loose their children. Single mothers are deemed to be less reliable or stable than a two parent family.:

If you have an FAS/FAE/austistic child/baby born with congenital problems, you're a child abuser and therefore don't deserve your children.

But yes, I do believe that the CPS system is a legislated kidnapping mill. Uh... I mean an adoption mill.
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#190 of 394 Old 04-12-2006, 11:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylee18
The time limits were put in place to prevent children from living out their lives in foster homes while their bio-parents ignore their existence. Parents asserting their rights, stating formally that they retain medical/educational decision-making rights, etc., regardless of custody, do not have time limits. If you know of any statutes to the contrary I would love to see them, because this is typical of the b*ll that CPS wants parents to believe.
Unfortunately I've known of families actively fighting to regain custody, some even who had been given their children back on paper only, who have lost their children for good. All it takes is one corrupt judge and a constant stream of alligations. You jump one loop and they'll accuse you of something else on and on until "Oooops, you're over your time limit" and the kids are gone. It's sick and disgusting, but it does happen.

Mom of 3 (Evan, Trey, Saffron ) Blogs at findingsummer.com
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#191 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 12:12 AM
 
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I'm curious - is their attorney experienced in child welfare cases?

If so, why on earth did he advise the parents to cave and sign their life away to CPS? If their child was never in imminent danger, an experienced attorney familiar with CPS would have been able to prove that.

They never should have agreed to a plan. It's almost as if the attorney made a "plea deal" because he didn't know what he was doing.
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#192 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 12:15 AM
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Yup... One judge can ruin things.

We almost had ODD back (my lawyer and I) during the first year, but one judge decided to extent the temporary agreement and add on a bunch more councelling and crap. That shot it past the 1 year mark although I didn't know it at the time.

I just sat there in the courtroom - well.. it was a conference room - and when she realized I was still there even though everyone else had left except her and her staff, she yelled at me to leave.

"You just destroyed my family."

She looked at me like I was crazy. I left. In tears.

At the peak of doing the stuff I was supposed to do, I was doing at least 40 hrs of councelling, visits, and social work approved "therapy." Nevermind the travel times between places. I figure I was doing something for 5 hrs or more each day except Sundays. And that was the day I cleaned my place up ready for the next round of insanity.

There was constant complaints of "cleanliness" even though I did my best then. If I wasn't at home sleeping, I was with her at visits. I swear, some days I would get home with just enough time to sleep for the next day. We had a flea problem even though I treated the cat I had, the landlords had a mice problem, there was a wasp nest, and the roof leaked into the basement suite I had damaging property and caused me to get sick. My place always "smelled" and that was a constant complaint. UGH.

I followed what they wanted me to do. Did everything they required me to do, and they would always heep more on. One of the other parents I talked to told me of a convo he had with his social worker. "What hoops are you going to give me today?"

He managed to get his son back. I have no clue how other than maybe it was because he wasn't fighting a psycho for custody.
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#193 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 12:18 AM
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Probably because he's one of "their" lawyers. Lawyers that "represent" parents but really are there to further CPS's plan. My lawyer for "ODD" was a "good lawyer" but I found out later from other clients of his that he actually works for them not for the parents. The lawyer I had on the Island was the best one I had. She was a miracle worker and kicked butt.
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#194 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 12:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamid
Probably because he's one of "their" lawyers.
Well that would certainly explain a lot.

Would you mind clarifying though? The parents did not seek out this attorney based on referrals, experience, etc.?
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#195 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 12:28 AM
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I know from personal experience that you go for the first one that will take your case in an emergency. We had two lawyers when we were dealing with DS. The first one told us to do whatever it was that CPS wanted us to do and to give custody of DS straight to DP. The good one instead protected us from them. I don't remember all she did because I was.. well.. advanced in my pregnancy at the time with DD. But with her on our side, we kicked their butt.
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#196 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 12:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mamid
The good one instead protected us from them. I don't remember all she did because I was.. well.. advanced in my pregnancy at the time with DD. But with her on our side, we kicked their butt.
Good for you!

An attorney who is familiar with state laws and experienced would and should kick butt . . . not cave like this attorney did.
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#197 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 02:40 AM
 
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I think an earlier poster had the right idea. They should move to have the agreement invalidated because it was signed under duress.
They get a good lawer.
They make the case outside of the CPS system.
All they need is one judge to say that the agreement isn't valid (doesn't matter if it doesn't invalidate it according to CPS rules), then they'll have grounds for refusing to let CPS in. True they'll be nowhere near having CPS out of their lives but it should level the playing field a bit.
Yes the CPS system is screwed up, and trying to get this situation straightened out while still jumping through their hoops will be impossible. They should be able to make a good case for the agreement being invalid 1. CPS was acting beyond their authority when they took the baby 2. the terms of the agreement are also beyond their authority (they're supposed to be acting in the best interest of the child and requiring that the mother not give her child the best form of nutrition which can have life long ramifications is most definitely not doing so) 3. they refused to give the baby back to his parents until they signed this agreement.
The whole situation is so rediculous that the only place it could ever hold water is within the CPS system itself. The best battle plan would be to get some aspect of it into the regular legal system and the best place to start would be with that agreement.
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#198 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 02:48 AM
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Okay.. CPS sees our children as two things - little sacks of money and a carrot/stick combo to use to get us to jump through their hoops.

The carrot/stick is keeping our children. Or, if they have taken them, just being able to spend precious minutes with them. You mess up, and wham, you loose visitations or they steal away with your child.

The money bag - well, that's easy. As soon as a kid is taken, like I said before, the entire machine that is CPS comes into play. 1 child can pay the salaries (at least partially) for 10 or more people. Social workers, supervisors, administrators, etc. Getting the child into a foster home funds more foster care. Getting the parental rights terminated and up for adoption leads to bonuses for the social worker.

So, duress or not, unless they get a smart and extremely capable lawyer, no judge is going to rescind that order. Revise it, maybe.

I hope they find a lawyer like mine.
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#199 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 04:01 AM
 
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This was clearly a violation of their 4th amendment rights.

However you feel about HSLDA, I found this article to be helpful http://www.hslda.org/research/docs/200404020.asp.
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#200 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 04:05 AM
 
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And while I understand the family has been through a lot and following their lawyers suggestion....

I'd sue the pants off CPS for putting my childs health and welfare at stake while violating my constitutional rights and that of my child.

Taking a newborn away from its mother and her emotional and physical nourishment is ABUSIVE.
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#201 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 01:20 PM
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I just wish that we in Canada had those same rights.

The Nothwithstanding clause negates our entire constitution.
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#202 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 01:36 PM
 
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I am wondering how the family is doing? What is happening with them? Any up dates?

Thanks

H

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#203 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 03:35 PM
 
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mamid~ what caused CPS to be on your case in the first place? I see you are in canada, ATM... were you in the states before? Are your children you lost still in the states?

I am really agast at the way CPS seems to be acting in the states. I didn't really know, as I'm canadian. I thought the canadian "cps" would be/is a lot more balanced than the states version.

My mom worked for the ministry (in canada) about 25 years ago, but they were helping families with real problems, and she said it was heartbreaking sometimes, taking the kids away from their parents. She didn't last in that job for long.

I really want to write a letter to someone... but I have to do some studying on CPS. I have no idea of their rules and regulations, as, like I said before, I'm a canadian.

I would love to see a website of some sort to help this family, and others going through this sort of thing.

I still wonder though. If a woman is going to trust her body enough to be able to give birth without assistance, why would she go to the hospital for a yeast infection? I mean, they can easily be treated at home naturally, and with diet adjustments. Or, even just using some over the counter meds if you were into that.
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#204 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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at this point, i am not sure if the yeast infection information was true or not, it was secondhand info
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#205 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 04:19 PM
 
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If a woman is going to trust her body enough to be able to give birth without assistance, why would she go to the hospital for a yeast infection? I mean, they can easily be treated at home naturally, and with diet adjustments.
I had something going on recently -- not sure if it was a UTI or yeast problems or what -- that was causing me some serious pain. I tried for a month to treat it myself. If I had been at the end of a pregnancy and tired and not wanting to be sick for the birth, I probably out of desperation would have gone to the doctor. As it was, I had nearly decided to anyway, when my body (with the help of cranberry capsules) finally overcame it.

ETA: Whether to use a doctor to manage the healthy body or to manage the non-healthy body are totally different issues. If you don't feel the need for the former, it does not follow that you can't or shouldn't feel the need for the latter.
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#206 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 05:43 PM
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No. I was in Canada.

I'm told my story from my point of view but have since deleted it because it is very emotionally hard for me to have written it in the first place. I don't want to be blasted for it even if you pm me to get the original text I had posted here. I was 21 when I had ODD and was in a bad relationship when everything started. Things went downhill from there.

I call the woman who bore me "biobitch" because she lost the right to be called "mother" when she pulled stunt after stunt (all has been deleted now) in order to get custody of ODD. ODD is now 12. I dealt with at least 7 social workers.

DP says that ODD'll show up sooner or later. And if she does, I have this _huge_ file she can sift through. I found more garbage in it too. That biobitch accused me of molesting ODD. Even SW4 was HUH??? I found out later she had tried the same thing with my dad and he hadn't seen me in years at that point.

With DS, SW8 was.. well.. a retard. He accused me of child abuse because we had a "fierce animal" that was going to "smother the baby." The "fierce animal" was a 5/6mo kitten and he had gotten down to play with it. SW9 just sat there and took notes. If you want to know how I felt about that visit, imagine seeing Yosemite Sam having one of his tantrums. A long letter about not allowing me the dignity of putting clothes on was written to the ministry and several apologies happened. SW10 and 11 showed up, apologized, tried to get resources but couldn't find anything that was close enough to me to get me access.

We had more visits from social workers. Some good. Some bad.

A year later, because DS was throwing tantrums at a theatre and both the manager and another patron freaked about how I was treating him in their eyes, SW 12 showed up. He demanded I stop signing to DS. He demanded we "clean up" the place even though we tried to get it through his head that a friend of ours was having a garage sale the next weekend... Oh no.. the place was "unsafe" and if it wasn't clean in 72 hrs, he was going to apprehend. After all, he had "read my file" and knew what a danger I was to my child. This is the same one we caught in a blatant lie. We had a running joke that "we didn't have anything to hide" because DS was going to the daycare his wife ran!

SW13 was actually decent, although he was the one who offered to change a light bulb and never managed to get there in time to do it. LOL. He was _very_ interested in Mothering magazines. SW14 was an "emergency one" who showed up when complaints of DS screaming was called in either by the landlady or by the upstairs neighbour. She flipped out cause DD was not sleeping in her own crib and I" had put her face down on our bed." She was what.. 5? 6mo and was rolling over on her own? I put her down on her side and she had rolled. She still loves sleeping on her belly. She also had a fit that DS wasn't there and refused to leave till she saw him. DS had had a batch of carrots and had diahreah which caused a diaper rash so bad any time we pulled his diaper off he would scream. So when DP finally came back with DS, I pealed his diaper down to show her his ass. DS immediately went into the bath once she left for the 10th time that day. DS always had problems with diaper rash, contact dermititis and exema from the time he was 3.5mo and started teething. SW14 had come with a cop and even the cop was confused about why she was looking for broken glass when I was sitting there folding laundry. By this time, DP had "recovered" from his heart attack and was just getting his strength back.

She was supposed to have shown back up 4 days later. When she didn't show at the appointed time, DP called into CPS and asked wtf? Our social worker, SW13 showed up and was "quite upset" when he found out that the landlady was next door. I knew she had been listening outside our window. She was also one of those who hated kids and would yell at them when they played outside and were running back and forth. The kids were only allowed to play in their own immediate "back yards." A small patch of grass 10feetX10feet.

Two weeks later, DS came down sick with pneumonia. While I was putting DD into the car, landlady came over and threatened us with eviction. If we didn't leave she was going to evict us because 4 other tenants were going to leave because of all the noise >we< were making. We checked the law and offered to leave "in two months." SW13 was told because of another complaint and while packing, I showed him photos of one of the things we had found that caused us to want to leave faster - mushrooms growing from the window sill less than 3 feet from where DD was sleeping!

We finally left the place. SW14 showed up at DS's daycare in a tizzy because we had "taken off" and "left the place a pigsty." Gee-- we moved out on a Saturday in the middle of a rainstorm. I had come back the next day to keep on cleaning and since landlady was going to charge us for carpet cleaning and more, we decided she should EARN her money for the stress she put us through. SW14 then showed up later that night just as I had taken a DC (or both) out shopping. I passed her car on the way out. LOL. SW13 was on paternity leave so we no longer had him helping us.

SW14 was furious that we had "just left without a forwarding address." We asked SW15 and SW16 who showed up to "inspect" our temporary location a few days later if we were required by law to give them a forwarding address. We were told no. I also loaned a few of my Mothering mags to them which I never got back.

Finally, last june, we moved again to live with friends for 2 months. In August, we moved to this location. Early September, SW17+SW18 showed up at our door unannounced. There was a complaint of "feces all over the walls" and "concerns were raised." We had barely moved into that place 6 weeks and were still bringing our property out of storage. I was totally WTF and slammed the door on their faces. DP went in a while later to talk to the guy. I got a message on my door from SW18 after another unnanounced visit that he wanted to talk to me - I was at training - and finally, a few days later, showed up with my "journal" of mothering, lj, and emails I had made all as one large file for him to read. "You want to know how I coped? Here."

A month later, we got a letter from him saying these are our strenghts, these are things we need to work on. And he closed the file again. At least he was a "good" one and had trained and worked with SW13.

We expect a yearly visit now. If they showed up today, they'd see a large garbage back I can't carry out and yes, this place is a mess. So what? I'm not June Cleaver and I clean when I clean. Hard to clean when you're so dizzy you feel faint every time you stand. Morning sickness doesn't help either. Now, CPS here doesn't have the funds to "help" as much anymore, so if they can close a file with minimum effort, they do it.
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#207 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 09:55 PM
 
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I sent an email to the editor at the Spokane Review and they say that there is not enough info here for them to investigate. They seem VERY interested CPS abuse if this story an be confirmed. If we cannot come up with any information that makes this more than just an Internet-spread Urban Legend, then we will all look like fools and the cause will be hurt. Can anyone post anything (or PM me) with something to get them going on this? Is there a name/suburb/CPS worker/anything that can get them started with their investigation and get the REAL CPS exposed for what they are?
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#208 of 394 Old 04-13-2006, 11:33 PM
 
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ooooo I sure hope so! What a great opportunity especially if they are hot to look into cps abuse stories!!! Oh pleeease let something come of this.

Ima to Mizz.Jonas- 14, Isman- 12,Javsar- 9, Nani Gweesa- 4 and Baby Micah born into the Universe sleeping at full term Oct. 19th 2008 and Partner to Abba ~ belly.gif8/2011  Grateful to be Dead  broc1.gif
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#209 of 394 Old 04-14-2006, 12:10 AM
 
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Mamid, I'm so sorry for all the trouble that you've been through. It's hard to read your history and still have any faith at all in our government at all. I sincerely hope that at some point, all settles down for you. I wish you health, and happiness (whatever you can eke out of what has happened to you) in the life that you lead.
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#210 of 394 Old 04-14-2006, 01:02 AM
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it has, sorta, settled down. Right now, my goal is to get adequate medical care for my family. SW18 knows that there isn't adequate medical care in the city we're in so he didn't make a fuss months ago before he closed the file. He just told us to do what we had to do, because there were still after hours clinics and the hospital. (rant about midwives dropping 6 women inserted here)

Prenatal "care" is what I'm looking for at the moment. Even just a couple of people who I know and trust who have at least a first aid ticket showing up at my place for thanksgiving dinner and spending the weekend... A judge years ago decreed that women can have anyone they want attend them at births, including lay persons. The midwives have regulations that could interfere with normal sexual relations between a husband and wife (who can and can not do pelvic exams) as well other little tidbits. But that's besides the point.

I'm in a similar situation. If I UC this one, with my past history with them, am I risking removal because I didn't have a legal attendant with me? I could counter with the lack of prenatal care argument and that the hospital is (currently at least) half hour away by foot, so its not like I'm in real danger, ya know? Yes, I got the documents today that show that the midwives dropped me too. I have a doula who is willing to take a weekly weight measurement and is interested in my chart from the midwives, but that isn't really care and she had the same training I had too so we have a professional relationship that way. There is dona training and then there's training with a woman in BC who is fighting the College for freedoms in birth. She's trained lay attendants and doulas. That's fine and dandy. But her certificates, specifically midwifery, are worthless in BC. At The Farm, they'd be worth gold. But here, they aren't worth using for toilet paper all because the College of Midwives has a war on against lay attendants.

So, if I set up with her lay midwives, am I setting them up for a lawsuit from the college? And again, would CPS swoop in and legislatively kidnap Trey and hirs sibs because I didn't get legitimate care? And heaven forbid something were to happen to Trey or I. Then that would result in the kids being taken and lawsuits abound. That's exactly what is going on with a woman I know and her attendant even though there was something wrong with the baby. She's going to keep me up to date. The only blessing she has is that she didn't have any children previously. I think she's pregnant now too.
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