due tomorrow, told I will be prosecuted if I attempt it alone, need to rant. - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 34 Old 02-13-2007, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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(tmi) :
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#2 of 34 Old 02-13-2007, 06:52 PM
 
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*sigh* I feel for you mama...

As far as I know, you are correct about it being legal and the medwives are just during their usual spiel to keep everyone under their leash. Hang in there.

Black sheep and surprises seem to be unwelcome in the medical birthing community (which i consider most midwives to be from my experiences so far).

Mum to DS (8yrs), DD (6yrs), and DS(3.5yrs). kid.gif

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#3 of 34 Old 02-13-2007, 08:30 PM
 
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I would go ahead and UC and make it clear that *I* birthed the baby and that my husband in no way acted as a midwife. Perfectly legal in the UK.

Mom to Eoin (11/02), Eilis (09/04), Eamon (07/07), and Ellery (04/10)
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#4 of 34 Old 02-13-2007, 09:14 PM
 
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Whatever happened to the ol' "Baby came too fast to get to the hospital!" or "Midwife didn't make it!" Those should work just as well in the UK.
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#5 of 34 Old 02-13-2007, 10:42 PM
 
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oh, i'm SO sorry! i understand that you don't need that crap at ALL! i wish you weren't an ocean away, i'd show up and help make a huge stink on all their front lawns.
please update as you can!
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#6 of 34 Old 02-13-2007, 11:55 PM
 
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Isn't it so amazing? It is just SO amazing!! That a woman cannot choose where and how to bring her baby into the world.

Please let us know how it all works out. I'm sure we'll all be sending positive vibes your way.
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#7 of 34 Old 02-14-2007, 04:31 AM
 
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I am sorry you are going through this and so close to your birth! DO you have to deal with them at all now that you have had your visit for verification? I would avoid it and concentrate on yourself and baby! Let us know how your UC goes!

~Lanie mom to Layne, Liam, Maren, Meridian, and Melora
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#8 of 34 Old 02-14-2007, 07:01 AM
 
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My thought is to just go for it....and be ready for a headache. I know it's not exactly great advice, but we had lots of bureaucratic trouble after my daughter was born trying to get her a birth certificate (we live in a foreign country--we're Americans). It was a total hassle, but even with all of that, I'm still soooo glad I had a UC.

I'm wishing you the very best! You could always talk to all the people and then say, "Well, okay, I'll agree to the hospital if you insist, BUT I'm going to stay home to labor as long as possible before I come in." Then say, "Well, OOPS! I told you I was going to stay home as long as possible, but then to my surprise the baby just came out on his/her own!!" Then you say, I was feeling so good that I didn't want to rush into the hospital after birth. That's pretty much what I ended up telling all the astounded doctors and nurses who checked us 36 hours after delivery when I went in to have a tear stitched. What can they do then? They can't PROVE you did it on purpose.

Hang in there!
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#9 of 34 Old 02-14-2007, 07:16 AM
 
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God they are dictatorial aren't they??
I cannot believe this kind of persecution, I just want to bang my head against a brick wall when I hear stories like this!

Huge hugs, and please let us know how you go.
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#10 of 34 Old 02-14-2007, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augustacherri View Post
You could always talk to all the people and then say, "Well, okay, I'll agree to the hospital if you insist, BUT I'm going to stay home to labor as long as possible before I come in." Then say, "Well, OOPS! I told you I was going to stay home as long as possible, but then to my surprise the baby just came out on his/her own!!"
this is basically what I think we're going to do. after I did talk to beverly at aims we discussed the fact that while I am well within my rights, they are also within theirs to call social services and report "problems". so when I go to my appointment to see the other midwife today I will tell them that if they feel better if I were to call a midwife I am more than happy to do so but I will not leave this house for any reason excepting an emergency. childbirth itself is NOT an emergency. and they do have to give me that choice or be held liable themselves. and if I think I am not quite as far in my labour as I actually am when I call, then gosh.

I just think it is so sad that they would put this kind of pressure on a woman 40 weeks pregnant and in perfect health. They actually do think they're working in me and my baby's best interest. but whether you believe we were created by nature or by god, your undermining you own beliefs to imply a woman is incapable of doing what her body was built to do.

I mean really. I am in more danger to transfer than to give birth alone.
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#11 of 34 Old 02-14-2007, 11:29 AM
 
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Can you print out the laws to have on hand, just in case?
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#12 of 34 Old 02-14-2007, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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well, I saw the midwives and they were much better this time, they agreed to send a midwife (they were indeed familiar with aims and etc by the time I got there with it all) and not try to say I had to go to a hospital.

so like I said if I call late and they dont get here quite on time, it's okay by me.
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#13 of 34 Old 02-14-2007, 07:42 PM
 
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So glad to hear you've worked this out!! You certainly don't need anyone else's fears giving you stress and trouble. And remember, they can't report "problems" to CPS if there are none! And if they think not going to the hospital is a "problem," then all you need to refute that is your healthy baby. People can be a real PITA, though! That's for sure!
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#14 of 34 Old 02-14-2007, 08:19 PM
 
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Just to let you know that from what I know that's a standard scare tactic that the nhs
midwives seem to try to use on you if you tell them you are planning a homebirth, UC or
otherwise.

I had the whole speil of scare tactics and outright lies from them when I was pregnant. I
ended up paying for an IM to avoid all the hassle.

Good luck in your birth.

*word of warning* I have heard tales of women calling up in labour and being told there
are no midwives so you have to go to the hospital. Just keep on insisting that they are to
send a midwife out to you.

I hate the NHS!
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#15 of 34 Old 02-16-2007, 11:49 AM
 
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I just wanted to wish you luck.
I'll be very interested to hear your full story when your babe arrives, would you mind sharing?
I've been interested in unassisted birth for some time, and although a woman's right to decline care is well documented here, (UK), I've never found an example history of someone who had a UP and UC as I would wish to, and gone on to use the nhs/register the birth.
In the US I'm under the impression that care providers can console themselves a bit with the idea that "poor mother didn't have insurance and made do with a UC"
When British women consider it, it can easily be interpreted as a critisism of the health service and the individual providers in particular.
Prayers and well wishes for the birth
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#16 of 34 Old 02-17-2007, 01:11 PM
 
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Just come across this post and wanted to wish you luck too.

I had an UC in the UK in August - i did do the 'whoops it came too fast' - they knew i was lying but never did anything about it.

The editor of the UK The mother magazine knows of lots of people who have UP'd & UC'd in the uk and not had any problems with the authorities.

The NHS / Midwives do like to scare you into doing things there way - just nod and do what you want to anyway

Let us know how you get on,

Mummy to T 06/04, L 08/06, R 08/09
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#17 of 34 Old 02-17-2007, 03:51 PM
 
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It sounds like you've found a great compromise, i.e. the "OOPS"

Seriously, don;'t worry about a thing. As a pp said, MW and Drs like to scare you...they like everybody to be operating within the system. The last thing they want is a bunch of free-thinking, DIY-kinda people (plus if everybody UC-d there would be no jobs left for them).

Anyway, going back to the legal system in the uk (I researched this quite intensively before having DD in the UK, although I never had my UC in the end), this is what HOMEBIRTH.ORG.UK says about it...

Quote:
It is perfectly legal to give birth alone, unassisted - ie with no midwife in attendance - whether this was accidental, or deliberate. Some women choose this option because they cannot get the sort of non-intrusive, supportive midwifery care they require. For others, giving birth unassisted is a positive choice which they believe to be best for them and their babies. I do not wish to either promote or condemn planned unassisted birth; the aim of this section is simply to inform. For links to sites advocating unassisted birth, see [6] below.

It is illegal for anyone other than a UK registered midwife or doctor to 'attend' a woman in labour except in an emergency. This means that if it can be proved that the birth partner intended to act as a midwife, he (or she, but 'he' is used here for simplicity) may be prosecuted. The birth partner may even be liable to prosecution if he was present at the baby's birth, even if he was in another room at the time. Some have suggested that 'present' means in the same room, but it could be interpreted as 'nearby'.

In the one case in recent years where such a prosecution has been successful, the baby's father, Brian Radley, had stated explicitly to the health authorities that he intended to act as a midwife for the birth, and this statement of intent helped the prosecution's case. His wife was told by the health authority that, if she called a midwife, the midwife would arrive and immediately call an ambulance to take her to hospital. Mrs Radley had vowed never to enter the hospital again after she received poor treatment during there when having her first baby. Given the health authority's unsupportive attitude, the Radleys felt that conducting the birth themselves was their best option. Brian Radley was fined £500, but his fine was paid by a doctor who was appalled at the way this couple had been treated by the medical profession. [7]

The threat of planning an unassisted home birth is sometimes used by mothers bargaining with unhelpful authorities. Booking a home birth can turn into a game of nerves, with the health authority insisting that it will not send a midwife. If the mother calls while in labour and states that she will not (or cannot) go into hospital, and requests a midwife, they would almost certainly send a midwife if the mother stood her ground. To date, as far as I have been able to ascertain, there have not been any cases where a midwife was not sent when the mother requested one in this situation. However, few women want to engage in this sort of debate while in labour.

Consider the situation where a mother called while in labour and refused to go into hospital, but the health authority did not send a midwife, and the mother gave birth alone. If the baby or mother suffered harm as a result, then the health authority could presumably be sued for failing to provide the expected level of care. However, it could also be argued that there was contributory negligence from the mother, since it was reasonably forseeable that harm might occur if she gave birth without medical supervision. This would reduce any liability of the health authority. So, while health authorities should bear in mind that they might be vulnerable to negligence claims if they failed to send a midwife, there are limitations on the likely extent of their liability.
I think the key things are the bit that I highlighted in bold...it's perfectly legal for you to UC although your DH isn't allowed to asssist you. Saying that, though, in reality it looks like even if your DH decided to declare it was his intention to be present and did get into trouble, the consequences would only be minor. Certainly nothing to not have your UC! And as for getting a birth certificate afterwards, the UK is great in not requiring anything other than proof of the parents details (i.e. passport or BC) for registering a baby.

Good luck and enjoy your oopsy.

Julia, unschooling mum to Gemma (5), Benny (3) and Dom (1)joy.gif
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#18 of 34 Old 02-17-2007, 04:10 PM
 
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As the official birthing blacksheep of my community,* I can tell you that saying stuff like "I have made an informed decision and am acting well within my rights" might help shutting them up. I tell you, if I was anywhere near you I would come and deal with them on your behalf, it makes me so mad that people should treat birthing mothers with so little respect.

You need to concentrate on you and your coming baby. Legal battles at this point or post partem will only detract from your emotional health. Sounds like you have your bases covered. Take all the support and good energy whereever you can find it and birth on!!!!!

*I home-vbac'd twins and thereafter was charged with abuse & neglect by a pediatrician who reported me to the state, charges were found unsubstantiated after I was investigated. I thought long and hard about pursuing legal action because of the whole mess (my dad was ready to hire a lawyer and go full speed ahead) but chose against this. Too much negativity.
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#19 of 34 Old 02-18-2007, 01:00 AM
 
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They cannot prosecute you. You need to look up the exact laws on the matter, print them out, and show them to these ppl. They are just trying to scare you into birthing in the hospital, and they are the ones who are being ignorant. Don't let them deter you or intimidate you! If you don't want their midwife, then don't call her. Don't worry about what they say. You're well within your rights!

fambedsingle2.gif Heather, 25, single mom to Corbin, 5, and Orin, 3  uc.jpg  delayedvax.gif  nocirc.gif
Oh how I miss the days of femalesling.GIF  nak.gifcd.gif  
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#20 of 34 Old 02-18-2007, 06:46 AM
 
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I'm glad it sounds they are not breathing down your back quite as hard.

Hopefully you not updating lately is a very good sign:

Oh and wildcrafter, I'd love to hear more about your unassisted twin vbac birth. I have considered going UC but am not quite there yet for this babe. Now if I find out there are twins, that may be my best option... I am NOT going back to the hospital, that is for sure.

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#21 of 34 Old 02-18-2007, 07:06 AM
 
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moving to the UK next month and planning a UC, i also contacted AIMs etc. Sad to hear of them giving such problems so late on.

I am planning to book in with the community midwifery team and then just oops phone too late. It suck having to sort of lie about your plans but it sounds better than the abuse you get if you are honest
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#22 of 34 Old 02-22-2007, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey girls:

I was unable to update cause my net's been down

Still pregnant, midwives still popping by with their "are ya gonna call a midwife? are you? are you? huh? oh oh oh and you might need to be induced....." and she found out my other child is homeschooled so they sent out social services in regards to both the homeschooling and the possibility I might birth alone. I am highly annoyed. I am 41 weeks pregnant, do I need this? what are they thinking?
I didnt let social services in, I got an email address and mailed them both info from AIMS and also all the info I could find on whether or not I have to 'register" my homeschooled child.

But I thank you all for your support and your stories. wildcrafter, I too was impressed with the bit of your story you told. I also think it's too much negativity. I am highly annoyed with the way families are treated for things as simple as peaceful safe birth and better education!
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#23 of 34 Old 02-22-2007, 04:08 PM
 
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My goodness, Mama! I can't believe the grief they are giving you. I'm so sorry
you have to deal with this stress right now! I'll be thinking of you and hoping for a safe and peaceful birth. s
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#24 of 34 Old 02-22-2007, 10:21 PM
 
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For the love of Pete! I'm not going to get into a rant, but to let you know we're sending positive energy, blessing and "loss of files" prayers your way!

Wishing a sacred, beautiful birth!

Carrie, The Birthteacher CCE and Doula, real mom to five; and womb-mom to G. born at 23w by emergency C. 12/09
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#25 of 34 Old 02-23-2007, 03:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arlecchina View Post
I am highly annoyed with the way families are treated for things as simple as peaceful safe birth and better education!
A lot of us are. Hang in there!

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#26 of 34 Old 02-23-2007, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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What really bothers me I think is if you look at the social problems in the US and the UK, then you start to wonder why they arent wondering if their way just isnt working, and attack THAT rather than the people who were intelligent enough to not just do what everyone else does - just because everyone else does.
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#27 of 34 Old 02-23-2007, 09:47 AM
 
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Good for you for turning social services away!!!!! And I must clear something up - I did not have an unassisted birth, I was attended by a lay midwife - but not against my will! Sorry if what I said implied otherwise.

Peace, love and strength - we'll all be thinking about you.
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#28 of 34 Old 02-24-2007, 01:34 PM
 
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here's another mama sending you good thoughts and wishes for a beautiful, undisturbed birth. maybe one of the people trying to mess with your plans will learn something!

*j
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#29 of 34 Old 02-24-2007, 10:50 PM
 
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I'm sending good birthing energy, too. Trying to help neutralize all that negativity they are piling on you.
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#30 of 34 Old 02-26-2007, 03:07 PM
 
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I'm so sorry you're being pestered like this. I'll be praying for you.
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