Cervical lips and the pushing urge - Mothering Forums

 
Thread Tools
#1 of 24 Old 03-12-2007, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
Marlet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Closer to home..
Posts: 8,738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have been thinking about this for close to two weeks now. I read a birth story a bit ago where the mama felt she was betrayed by natural/uc birthing books and information. She had never felt that urge to push despite having "pushing" contractions for close to 7 hours. When she transferred in she had a bit of a cervical lip left that the dr. pushed out of the way on her next contraction.

So I went thorugh all the birth stories I could remember that had a cervical lip and a good portion of them did't have the urge to push until it was moved out of the way. I know nothing about that urge. I was passed out so I don't recall any of those type feelings. However I dilated fully...there was no stopping that train.

does a cervical lip "trick" the body so to speak into thinking it's not ready? There are just as many stories that have no problems in regards to that but for the sake of the discussion they don't count.

Do you think it depends on the amount of lip left over? Could it be that they still have the urge but the body facilitates it differently? If so what do you think could be possible reasons why? Also, if your body has a blueprint for labour (so to speak) does the beginning of your labour reflect what is to come in the pushing stage? Does your body prepare for the cervical lip by creating a different contraction layout all together

Let's discuss!

Give more**Expect Less
There is no such thing as bad weather. Only bad clothing.
Marlet is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 24 Old 03-12-2007, 07:45 PM
 
habibekindheart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Just this side of insanity
Posts: 282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When I was in labor with #8, I pulled my own cervical lip out of the way after 2 hours of trying different positions to try to get it to go away. With some of my kids, I'm stuck with a lip, and other kids just slip under it.

I feel no urge to push when my baby is stuck behind a cervical lip...but I can gently pull it up and out of the way and my baby comes right down...the urge to push comes with it.

As for the labor blueprint...I'll tell you, I don't think there is one, in some senses.

I know that with each labor I'll enter a stage where I babble...which is at about 5cm. Then at 8cm I'll start throwing up as I enter transition. Transition lasts anywhere from one contraction to hours as in the case where I had the lip...and then 2 mins of pushing and my baby is born.

OTOH, I thought my labor was 7.5 hours. No negotiation, no scary surprises, that's it. #9 came around and it was a 2 hour natural labor (though it felt COMPLETELY unnatural to me).

No matter what, labor comes with surprises
habibekindheart is offline  
#3 of 24 Old 03-12-2007, 08:41 PM
 
2bluefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've had lips twice with strong pushing urges, but when I pushed against them it hurt like heck and felt all wrong. I believe the lip for me is simply an undialated cervix. I have to wait it out - interferring (trying to hold it back, pushing, etc.) just cause more pain and does not help.
2bluefish is offline  
 
#4 of 24 Old 03-12-2007, 10:18 PM
 
boheime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,810
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I had a long labor with my first. I wasn't relaxing as I should have been - an issue I realized I have all the time, not just labor. At one point I wondered why I hadn't felt the urge to push. This was the one time I checked dilaton during either of my labors. I felt a cervical lip and thought, "Oh, that's why!" So, I waited until I started to have that urge and then pushed (or was my body just doing it on its own? It is hard to tell).

In case it is related, I have never pushed unless I felt the urge - and I have never felt the supposed ring of fire.

Mom to Eoin (11/02), Eilis (09/04), Eamon (07/07), and Ellery (04/10)
boheime is offline  
#5 of 24 Old 03-12-2007, 10:51 PM
 
Munchkimo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 334
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I had a cervical lip and a pushing urge at 7.5cm. I was advised not to push, but in retrospect, I wonder if it was the pushing that took care of the cervical lip?
Munchkimo is offline  
#6 of 24 Old 03-13-2007, 02:22 AM
 
habibekindheart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Just this side of insanity
Posts: 282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Pushing against a cervical lip can cause your cervix to swell, complicating your ability to deliver. That's the inherent problem with pushing when you're not fully dilated or with a lip. It can also cause bruising of the baby. I had that with Nicholas, who was stuck on a cervical lip. The docs were making me push...he came out bruised from soft spot to nose. Poor guy had 2 black eyes for weeks...(he was sunny side up).
habibekindheart is offline  
#7 of 24 Old 03-13-2007, 07:30 AM
 
augustacherri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 655
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
With both of my labors I had a stubborn cervical lip. I stayed fully dilated (save a small lip) for two or three hours each time with absolutely NO pushing urge. If I tried to push at all, the pain was excruciating!

In both cases, my water was broken by someone after hours of nothing happening (#1-doctor broke water, #2-hubby broke water at my UC). The next contraction after my water being broken in each case, I felt an OVERWHELMING urge to push. #1 unmedicated hospital birth, they coached pushing and my son was born less than 15 minutes later. #2 UC, no coaching, but STRONG urge to push with each contraction; baby probably born in less than 20 to 30 minutes. Oh, and after my water was broken, I had no pain whatsoever from the time of the first pushing contraction through delivery in each case.
augustacherri is offline  
#8 of 24 Old 03-27-2007, 05:02 PM
 
13Sandals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: north of NY
Posts: 1,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bluefish View Post
I've had lips twice with strong pushing urges, but when I pushed against them it hurt like heck and felt all wrong. I believe the lip for me is simply an undialated cervix. I have to wait it out - interferring (trying to hold it back, pushing, etc.) just cause more pain and does not help.
this describes exactly what I went through with my second. my body was involuntarily pushing against a cervical lip (like you said, in my case, an undialated cervix) - it was the worst pain I've ever felt, like my body was doing violence to itself. he had a nuchal hand and I think a bit of an uneven presentation. I just had to get a hold of myself, and wait it out.....it finally released and he was born in minutes.
13Sandals is offline  
#9 of 24 Old 03-27-2007, 05:22 PM
 
2bluefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes, with dd her head was extended so that the largest part was presenting. It felt like my body was just slamming her against my cervix over and over. It was terrifying. The midwife had convinced me we needed to induce her at home and my water was broken. I can't say for sure, but I feel that it probably would have been totally different if we hadn't broken my water and just waited. When I was finally dialated, the birthing was very smooth and easy.

The second time I ended up getting in positions that got the baby off my cervix while I waited to dialate and that seemed to be better. I actually felt more comfortable semi-reclined, on my left side, etc. rather than being upright. I wonder if I'm not so roomy that my cervix gets pinched by the babies descending too far before the cervix is open?

ETA:
I think even reading books about labor and birth positions has caused me problems in the past. I have in my mind what I *should* be doing and override my feelings. Things always go better for me when I just get comfortable!
2bluefish is offline  
#10 of 24 Old 03-27-2007, 05:24 PM
 
luckymamato2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunwoody, GA
Posts: 575
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I had a cervical lip at 9cm which the medwife pushed over my dd's head while I tried to kick her teeth out! She also broke my water manually after I "agreed" to allow her to. I would have agreed to almost anything at that point! I don't understand what lips are and why I had one. I hope (if there is another pg) that the HB midwife can help me process my dd's birth even though she was not there.

DS - 5! - adopted at birth after infertility, IUI, and IVF; DD - 4! - surprise pregnancy discovered when DS was 8 months old ; Hoping for another soon (actively TTC ~ 2 years)
luckymamato2 is offline  
#11 of 24 Old 03-27-2007, 05:30 PM
 
tamagotchi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I had a little cervical lip and never had a pushing urge. My midwife coached my pushing for 5 hours until my baby was born. It was hard and frustrating!
tamagotchi is offline  
#12 of 24 Old 03-27-2007, 06:09 PM
 
eper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I never at any point felt much urge to push. After the my MW touched the lip, it went away. The contractions became very intense after that and my body was pushing but I never felt that I have to push. At one point, I realized that if I push with those "pushing" contractions then the intensity lessens. It took about 5-6 contractions and my baby was born.
eper is offline  
#13 of 24 Old 03-27-2007, 07:59 PM
 
Romana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi! Yeah, that was me the OP is talking about.

ETA: Here is my birthstory: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...trayed+attempt

{If you read it, just so you know, I feel much better now. Being upset, feeling betrayed, etc. was all part of processing the experience and healing.}

I've often wondered about this myself. I really wish I'd been able to check my own cervix. I didn't feel the lip myself, and neither did dh (he thought I was ready to push about an hour or so after transition, shortly after my water broke.

I would like to think that I would have felt the cervical lip myself, or something. I don't know. I'm kind of lost about the whole thing myself, and was going to ask the MD at dd's next appt.

Now, in my birth story it says the doctor pushed the lip out of the way. I've been meaning to ask him if he actually did that, because I didn't feel anything and he had warned me it would be painful. Also, I didn't push on the very first contraction after that one (where he supposedly moved the lip out of the way), but it didn't feel any different. Neither did any of the contractions after it, although I was actively pushing at that point. I had to push really, really hard to have progress. I didn't purple push, just pushed as long or short as I wanted to (thanks doula!). But I still didn't have any urge to push and everything felt EXACTLY the same as it had for ctx for the prior 7 or so hours.

My body also did no pushing on its own or involuntary pushing or anything like that. It required all the physical effort I had to get my baby to move down. It also didn't feel any better to push. If anything, it felt worse. Ugh, I think that was the worst feeling in the whole world. On top of all the pain I was already experiencing, how simply awful pushing felt.

I did not try pushing at any time during the whole process. Instead, I spent all that time breathing, relaxing, moaning, etc. Mostly just trying to relax everything as much as possible. I never had any cervical pain during labor. I would have noticed - the pain I was experiencing was nothing like that and wasn't at my cervix at all. There was tons, tons, tons of pressure in the cervical region (for lack of a better term ), but no pain.

Hmmm.

Thanks for thinking through all this with me! It's very odd to see my birthstory come up as a topic of discussion!

Julia
dd 1 year old
Romana is offline  
#14 of 24 Old 03-27-2007, 08:01 PM
 
Romana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by habibekindheart View Post
Pushing against a cervical lip can cause your cervix to swell, complicating your ability to deliver. That's the inherent problem with pushing when you're not fully dilated or with a lip. It can also cause bruising of the baby. I had that with Nicholas, who was stuck on a cervical lip. The docs were making me push...he came out bruised from soft spot to nose. Poor guy had 2 black eyes for weeks...(he was sunny side up).
This is why, in retrospect, sometimes I think it was for the best that I didn't just try a little push. Sometimes I think, "Gee, if only I'd tried pushing, dd could have been born at home." Then, other times, I think "Well, it's probably a good thing I didn't, since it could have caused the cervical lip to swell and complicated everything."

Who knows. I wish I did, though.

Julia
dd 1 year old
Romana is offline  
#15 of 24 Old 03-27-2007, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
Marlet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Closer to home..
Posts: 8,738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was afraid of saying betrayed since I KNEW you'd figure it out. I found it interesting though and your wording put the thought more in my mind.

Interesting hearing from all you ladies!

Give more**Expect Less
There is no such thing as bad weather. Only bad clothing.
Marlet is offline  
#16 of 24 Old 03-27-2007, 08:09 PM
 
Romana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Being able to recognize your birthstory from a few comments is like being able to recognize your child in a crowd.

I don't mind that you pulled out my birthstory. As you can tell, I still wonder about it all the time! (ok, not all the time).

Julia
dd 1 year old
Romana is offline  
#17 of 24 Old 03-27-2007, 10:57 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think what I had with DS was a cervical lip. I did however have a very strong pushing urge. I just had trouble moving DS with each push. My MW slipped a finger or so inside of me and moved something (I assume a lip?) and he almost came right out. It felt so good to have her move it, but I did have a definate strong pushing urge prior.
DayDreamer is offline  
#18 of 24 Old 04-28-2007, 09:40 PM
 
Mommyintraining2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 739
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What really is a cervical lip? How can you tell you have one? Is it something you can move yourself?
Mommyintraining2 is offline  
#19 of 24 Old 04-28-2007, 11:00 PM
 
momma4fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: in the snow
Posts: 912
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
With all things UC I always question in the back of my mind: What would the woman in the forest do? Is the sensation and lubrication and opening and presence of the babe so obvious that it would be instinctive for her to be curious and explore things with her hand? I think so. And would she feel the round hardness of the child's head and notice that her body might need for her hand to help in delivering the baby?

This is what I think of as I wonder about the possibility of a lip.
momma4fun is offline  
#20 of 24 Old 04-29-2007, 11:35 PM
 
Mommyintraining2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 739
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
[QUOTE=momma4fun;7981456]With all things UC I always question in the back of my mind: What would the woman in the forest do? ]


I've always wanted to be the woman in the forest!
Mommyintraining2 is offline  
#21 of 24 Old 04-29-2007, 11:42 PM
 
terrabella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: holiday knitting hell
Posts: 738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by habibekindheart View Post
When I was in labor with #8, I pulled my own cervical lip out of the way after 2 hours of trying different positions to try to get it to go away. With some of my kids, I'm stuck with a lip, and other kids just slip under it.
terrabella is offline  
#22 of 24 Old 04-29-2007, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
Marlet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Closer to home..
Posts: 8,738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by momma4fun View Post
With all things UC I always question in the back of my mind: What would the woman in the forest do? Is the sensation and lubrication and opening and presence of the babe so obvious that it would be instinctive for her to be curious and explore things with her hand? I think so. And would she feel the round hardness of the child's head and notice that her body might need for her hand to help in delivering the baby?

This is what I think of as I wonder about the possibility of a lip.
YES! I am using this in another post.

Give more**Expect Less
There is no such thing as bad weather. Only bad clothing.
Marlet is offline  
#23 of 24 Old 04-30-2007, 10:03 AM
 
SublimeBirthGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 3,428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My 1st was a midwife-attended hospital birth. I was "9.5" cm when I got the urge to push. I wasn't even sure what was going on (I was so out of it, not from drugs, but from feeling unsafe, IMO, in the hospital) but my midwife said "You're almost fully dilated-you can push a little if you feel like it." I tried it and that was MUCH better. I think I pushed for less than an hour. I get a massive, overwhelming urge. I think the swelling cervix is usually due to directed pushing.

Laura, CBE and mom to Maddiewaterbirth.jpg ( 06/03/04) & Graceuc.jpg (  09/10/06)
 
SublimeBirthGirl is offline  
#24 of 24 Old 04-30-2007, 10:05 AM
 
SublimeBirthGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 3,428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here's another thought - how is cervical lip defined? To me, 7.5 cm isn't a lip; it's a cervix that's not dilated yet. I've always thought of a cervical lip as 9+ cm.

Laura, CBE and mom to Maddiewaterbirth.jpg ( 06/03/04) & Graceuc.jpg (  09/10/06)
 
SublimeBirthGirl is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 14,122

26 members and 14,096 guests
a-sorta-fairytale , BirthFree , blessedwithboys , Deborah , Dovenoir , girlspn , hillymum , JElaineB , lhargrave89 , lisak1234 , manyhatsmom , Mirzam , moominmamma , Motherof3already , MountainMamaGC , mum2017 , NaturallyKait , philomom , RollerCoasterMama , SchoolmarmDE , Springshowers , transpecos , transylvania_mom , Wendybird42 , zebra15
Most users ever online was 449,755, 06-25-2014 at 12:21 PM.