Think I want a midwife this time - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 50 Old 05-01-2007, 01:25 PM
 
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Something about all this is just not sitting well with me - I think the thing is even if the "assumption" is entirely on the part of the receiver (which I don't think it is, but for the sake of argument...) several women have meantioned receiving this impression. The feelings are valid - and I wouldn't want it to come back around at this point to "it's just *your* issue" - which is kind of the attitude we are feeling sensitive about! YWIM?

The other thing is I don't want to leave the impression I'm feeling very badly about the community here - I just have noticed several women have expressed feeling uncomfortable here when their plans didn't go off without a hitch, and I want to do what I can to make women feel more comfortable.
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#32 of 50 Old 05-01-2007, 01:42 PM
 
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Thanks, 2bluefish, for your thoughtful replies. I feel you really expanded on what I was saying and clarified things. Thank you.

I'd like to say that I too love the community here. I've just noticed the same things, that's all.

Julia
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#33 of 50 Old 05-01-2007, 02:00 PM
 
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Okay, case in point. <deleted for UA violation, sorry everyone! >

Mama in the Forest, you were one of the very most supportive people <edited for UA violation, sorry! >. I was never trying to say that you personally were unsupportive or "blaming the mother" in your comments - it was just generally acknowledging that such attitudes to exist on this forum.

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#34 of 50 Old 05-01-2007, 02:18 PM
 
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Hi, everyone

Please let's keep this on-topic and remember the MDC User Agreement states that we're not supposed to talk about other threads or other members (whether or not they are named). Please feel free to start a new thread to discuss any spin-off topics that have come up in the course of the discussion

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#35 of 50 Old 05-01-2007, 03:19 PM
 
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I know Julia, it's hard to discuss these feelings in any inteligable way without referencing things we're not supposed to reference. In thinking more about it, I realized I don't feel like talking about this because I want or expect somebody else to change or even thinking they need to. It's just nice once in awhile to know that others have a shared experience and feelings and offer ((hugs)) YWIM?
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#36 of 50 Old 05-01-2007, 03:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2bluefish View Post
No, it's not, because I had at least one woman tell me point blank that I screwed up my last birth by not being patient. I left after that feeling I needed to focus on my family not on defending myself to women who haven't even gone through one birth experience yet.
Certainly, there are dogmatic individuals (less so here than on other boards I've frequented, thankfully) and I've butted heads with some myself, and been offended. We probably all have. All I'm saying is that I don't see that it is a common sentiment here that nature is inherently perfect and in line with what we want and it sounded to me like that was what you were saying. If you're talking about a person here and there, yes I've seen that, and I said as much before. And what I also see is that the mast majority of us disagree with that. But maybe we're talking past each other and I misunderstood the point you were trying to make -- it sounded like a general accusation to me, and that was what I was responding to.

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The other thing I see is we can't just say "yes, this happens but it is rare" we have to go over and over that most of the time it was a false diagnosis.
What do you mean we can't just say that? It seems to me that (although it also seems to me that it should go without saying) I am constantly saying it. But why shouldn't we also continue to turn it around in our heads? Most of the time it probably *is* a false diagnosis. What good does it do to just simply accept every diagnosis as valid? Why is questioning bad?

Re: birth stories and comments that suggest psychological or environmental possibilities for what happened, a given respondant might be off in the specifics of that as it relates to the story, but regardless the general idea that that there may be psychological or environmental aspects to the birth is true. And I think it's reasonable to point that out when the birth story includes a lot of "Why?" questions. (Speaking hypothetically so that the thread doesn't get shut down for referring to another actual specific thread...)

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The feelings are valid - and I wouldn't want it to come back around at this point to "it's just *your* issue"
I'm not saying that at all. I said that I've experienced it myself, didn't I? Again, though, I thought you were implying that this is a common belief structure here, in which case my statement about mistaken inferrences stands. I don't believe for one second that most people here think that birth is all psychological or that if just left alone it's always perfect.
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#37 of 50 Old 05-01-2007, 03:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds View Post
it sounded like a general accusation to me, and that was what I was responding to.
I'm certainly not saying everyone in the MDC UC forum is like this. I do see it as a general trend within a certain segment of UCers in the UC community at large, and I do see it crop up from time to time here.

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What do you mean we can't just say that?
It feels like I see this "often" - maybe it happens often, maybe not - maybe it's just a pet peeve and it irritates me everytime I see it so it seems like it happens more than it does: this tendency to want to say that different scenarios and problems in labor and birth have identifiable man-made causes, so we don't need to prepare for them because *it won't happen to me*.

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What good does it do to just simply accept every diagnosis as valid? Why is questioning bad?
Questioning isn't bad, and I certainly wouldn't suggest we accept every diagnosis. But I don't think it is fair to discount the experiences of other women without asking lot's of questions and listening to the answers (for example - "Do you feel that you were impatient?" "What were your instincts telling you? I want to understand the mindset you were in when you made the choice." Rather than "The way I see it, your problem was you were impatient.")

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I don't believe most people here think that birth is all psychological or that if just left alone it's always perfect.
Perhaps not, but that doesn't mean they don't give that impression to others. I have seen a significant number of young women be disappointed with their first births, because of this impression. I feel that accurate depiction and explanation of birth and its risks does more to dispel fear, than allowing an impression to abound that birth is without risk. While the UC community at large may not believe birth is without risk, I do think that impression is sometimes given (perhaps to those most open to receiving that message).
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#38 of 50 Old 05-01-2007, 04:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2bluefish View Post
I know Julia, it's hard to discuss these feelings in any inteligable way without referencing things we're not supposed to reference. In thinking more about it, I realized I don't feel like talking about this because I want or expect somebody else to change or even thinking they need to. It's just nice once in awhile to know that others have a shared experience and feelings and offer ((hugs)) YWIM?
Yes, I think that's where I'm at, too.

I'd like to apologize (to everyone) for quoting from another thread. This bad mama needs to go back and reread the User Agreement!

Julia
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#39 of 50 Old 05-01-2007, 04:17 PM
 
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I'd like to apologize (to everyone) for quoting from another thread. This bad mama needs to go back and reread the User Agreement!
Ditto for me! Why is it that my most interesting thoughts are always against the UA? Rebel without a cause I guess!
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#40 of 50 Old 05-01-2007, 04:20 PM
 
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No need to apologize...it was just a general reminder

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#41 of 50 Old 05-01-2007, 05:34 PM
 
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Even if it is a sensitive subject I am glad you brought it up. I am still fairly new to the UC forum. Some may remember that I kept bothering you all with "what if" threads about safety : - and probably gave everyone the impression that I would make a really poor UC'er Anyway - I gave it my best shot, but happened to run into malpresentation, eventually called MW, transferred and ended up with c-sec.
I was hesitant to return to this forum for some of the reasons brougth up in this thread. I was worried you would think I had "failed" to UC - and that I would not be considered a "real" UC'er afterall.
But the funny thing is that now I feel much more like I belong here. I tried and even though I ended up with all the stuff I had hoped to avoid then the process of preparing to UC was invaluable. Even if I ended up calling a midwife then it was MY choice. I went to hospital but it was MY choice. I was c-sectioned - but my consent was truely informed.

I think it is importent that we sometimes remind ourselfes and others that sometimes complications DO happen - and we WILL sometimes need to deal with them. Daring to ask for help when needed is not a sign of weakness or impatience but a sign of strength IMO

Single mom to ds(8), dd(6) and ds(5)
 

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#42 of 50 Old 05-01-2007, 07:08 PM
 
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I agree with you Inca.I am still hoping to UC but I do realize it may not happen as I imagine it but at least I will be responsible and make the decisions rather than laying back and letting others decide or trying to fight with other's decisions over my body.

joy.gifme, herding 5 critters a cat and a dog. DS 11/01, DS 10/04, DD 2/06, DS 5/07 and DD 9/10

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#43 of 50 Old 05-01-2007, 10:27 PM
 
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I think it is importent that we sometimes remind ourselfes and others that sometimes complications DO happen - and we WILL sometimes need to deal with them. Daring to ask for help when needed is not a sign of weakness or impatience but a sign of strength IMO
UC doesn't equal "not ever considering an intervention or hospital at all." UC is about listening to your body. And, that is what you did...you knew when something was "off" and then you got the assistance you needed.

My third birth felt "unassisted" to me...I did whatever I wanted. My midwife was there in the background, on the outside of the tub. My son came out into my arms, I lifted him out of the womb and water onto me. My first two were really good births (all mine have been at home) and all my births were very different.

I've always looked at it as going into birth, without expectations, but set up with the best education, information and knowledge...that combined with your motherly birthing instincts, will give you the birth you were meant to have.

Perpetually breastfeeding or pregnant ENFP mom to a lot of kids...wife to a midwestern nice guy...living in tropical paradise...pink cats and homebirths rock!

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#44 of 50 Old 05-02-2007, 07:53 PM
 
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Thanks Julia for expressing yourself so well. I appreciate that.

I do feel that birth is one of the most truly private and sacred choices a woman makes, and that it is *hers* alone to make. I support that a hundred percent. I'm starting a spin off thread ........

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Me My Blog Mama to 7 babes & four spirit babies
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#45 of 50 Old 05-03-2007, 01:04 AM
 
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I was worried you would think I had "failed" to UC - and that I would not be considered a "real" UC'er afterall.
You know, because we (general "we") are so passionate about this choice and really don't need to talk about "the other stuff" (our focus is UC after all,) the fact that most of us are really moderates might not be so apparent. I've been here since the very beginning and it seems to me that I've talked about this a lot -- including, for instance, the fact that my plan all along was to see how I felt in the moment and allowed myself the freedom to change my mind at any time -- but you probably haven't read all 5000 or so of my posts and might not know that. I remember when the UC forum first opened up, we spent a lot of time talking about how we don't hate midwives or think midwife-attended birth invalid. Every time someone would say something critical about midwifery, someone else would come on and say "oh but some women need midwives/midwives aren't all bad/midwifery was best for me" etc. It seems like we're past that though. Now the issue is a fear of judgment toward failed UCs. Or a perception that there is a dogmatic belief floating around in the ether here that the perfect UC is possible for every woman if only she does everything right. It's frustrating to be misunderstood, but at the same time I'm glad that it's being talked about because it tells me that we need to cover this somehow in the UC forum's guidelines.

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But the funny thing is that now I feel much more like I belong here. I tried and even though I ended up with all the stuff I had hoped to avoid then the process of preparing to UC was invaluable.
Yes. Exactly why this forum is here.
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#46 of 50 Old 05-03-2007, 10:08 AM
 
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You know, because we (general "we") are so passionate about this choice and really don't need to talk about "the other stuff" (our focus is UC after all,) the fact that most of us are really moderates might not be so apparent. I've been here since the very beginning and it seems to me that I've talked about this a lot -- including, for instance, the fact that my plan all along was to see how I felt in the moment and allowed myself the freedom to change my mind at any time -- but you probably haven't read all 5000 or so of my posts and might not know that. I remember when the UC forum first opened up, we spent a lot of time talking about how we don't hate midwives or think midwife-attended birth invalid. Every time someone would say something critical about midwifery, someone else would come on and say "oh but some women need midwives/midwives aren't all bad/midwifery was best for me" etc. It seems like we're past that though. Now the issue is a fear of judgment toward failed UCs. Or a perception that there is a dogmatic belief floating around in the ether here that the perfect UC is possible for every woman if only she does everything right. It's frustrating to be misunderstood, but at the same time I'm glad that it's being talked about because it tells me that we need to cover this somehow in the UC forum's guidelines.



Yes. Exactly why this forum is here.

Yes. I remember the beginning of this forum as well and that period of posts. I am glad to see this topic being broached as well. I think it will help a lot.

Mum to DS (8yrs), DD (6yrs), and DS(3.5yrs). kid.gif

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#47 of 50 Old 05-03-2007, 10:34 AM
 
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It's frustrating to be misunderstood, but at the same time I'm glad that it's being talked about because it tells me that we need to cover this somehow in the UC forum's guidelines.

You know, that is a good idea

I understand what the moms who've been here but then didn't UC are saying, honestly, because I've been in the exact same spot before (not here though). It was like "oh gawd, I have to go back and let them know it's all good but I was induced for pete's sake. Induced! I totally caved under the pressure, like paper." I was really disappointed in myself and figured everyone else was going to be too. ANd if they were, well, they were tactful about it LOL but the important thing was is that I stuck it out and discussed different things about both birth experiences I had at that point and that was probably one of the most useful stretches of time I'd had on a message board.

I wish my second baby was a UC, sure. For me I wasn't ready deep down and it ended up being a part of a bigger journey. At the time, it was crushing though. And the things that happened at ds2's birth - man.

I'm probably thread hijacking at this point and should go post on the other spin off thread
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#48 of 50 Old 05-03-2007, 10:37 AM
 
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i'm a big believer in UC, but i also believe in informed choice. i can totally understand even just wanting another woman there, or another set of hands, or just someone to chat with, let alone someone knowledgable if something did happen. there are some great midwives out there, i would just say interview as many as you have available so you find the right fit for you.
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#49 of 50 Old 05-04-2007, 12:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This ended up being my dream thread! I'm glad that we are openly discussing the way that we some of us have felt insulted when others on this board (esp those who've never birthed!!) have gently suggested that perhaps there were other things we "could have done" to avoid going to the hospital. Yes, this is definitely its own thread!!

Jess

Finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel...:
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#50 of 50 Old 05-05-2007, 12:01 AM
 
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I did have a totally unassisted pregnancy and birth last September with my daughter.

If I were to get pregnant tonight, I would definitely be interviewing midwives. My daughter and I have been through a lot of complicated breastfeeding issues, and at very least, I'd like support immediately after birth with those issues.

I think it boils down to a (very hands off MW- I'd tell MW to bring a book or knitting:-p) matter of what my instincts are telling me this time.

Mama to Raina (9/06) and Peter (8/09)!
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