I agree with everything mama in the forest said, and I think she put it beautifully.
Originally Posted by rajahkat
This is very different (at least to me) than saying directly to someone that "Your birth would have been fine if you had just..xyz" THAT is insulting, and THAT I have very rarely seen, especially here. And frankly, I"M INSULTED by the statements that were made to the contrary! If you have issues with someone and what she said about your birth, then take it up with HER. Don't come here and make blanket statements about generalized feelings and underlying assumptions.
The exact kind of comment you're talking about happened to me, here in the UC forum, and I have seen it occasionally happen to others too. I'm glad I waited six months to post my birth story so that I had really started processing and working through it and the comments didn't affect me the way they would have a week after giving birth. I wasn't insulted or offended, but comments of that nature always feel unsupportive and critical. I chose to ignore it, but it of course shaped my feelings of support and safety in this forum.
I think this is a wonderful place. I don't take any issue with mamas who insist that, for them, just knowing they'll have a perfect, intervention-free birth makes it manifest. But at the same time, I should be allowed to share my perspective, too - that sometimes, even when you do everything "right" and are completely uninhibited and unafraid, things might not work out. It's not an idea based on a personal religion, but it is based in personal experience and it's important to me to talk with other UC mamas, especially those planning UCs, so they have access to information that I would have found incredibly helpful prior to my UC. I think that a lot of mamas, especially FTMs who come here, are (for very good reason) swept away by the idea of UC and do not always have realistic expectations or understanding of birth. I don't expect everyone else to make disclaimers to satisfy me, but I just want to be able to add my own perspective, too. A lot of my searching regarding UC was hearing other mamas' experiences and stories because I hadn't yet had a birth of my own. If every mama who had a UC/transfer felt she couldn't discuss or post about what she learned from her experience because doing so would be unsupportive of UC, then we do a great disservice to mamas who come here looking for wisdom and experience. That includes the wisdom of "failure." (I do not consider my birth a failure, which is why it's in quotes, but it was not a UC.)
I also think almost everyone here agrees that medical complications can and do arise, even when everyone's healthy etc. It shouldn't be necessary to repeat that in every post. However, I always add a disclaimer to my posts on the subject, and state that my experience was not the norm, because I recognize that it was not, and I would not want to give the impression that an 8+ hour second stage is normal.
I am very sorry to read that mamas feel there isn't support here for UC mamas. I don't feel that way, and I would be very disappointed if I did. I'm still leaning 70% UC for next time, but I don't know because I'm not pregnant yet, and I don't think I can make that decision when removed from the pregnancy.
I hope that this forum is a place where we can offer each other support, both for successful UCs and for UC transfers and other emergencies, and for UPs, without either tiptoeing too delicately or having to place disclaimers everywhere.
I guess this thread also makes me wonder if I'm not considered a UC'er by other UC'ers here because I ended up transferring. I do consider myself a UC'er; I think it's an entire mindset, a way of thinking about birth, and involves physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual preparation fundamentally different from an attended birth. I wouldn't ever say I had a UC, but I do consider myself a UC'er. Especially since I feel so drawn towards it and feel that it's more likely than not that I'll choose to UC next time.
But I hope to that I can share my insecurities, uncertainties, and thought processes here. Wondering about weighing important factors, thinking about the past birth, and seeking the thoughtful input of others who have made a similar decision.
I am deeply sorry that UC mamas felt attacked or unsupported because of the other thread. I felt that I had been alone in my feelings for over a year, and when the topic arose, it was a great relief to find someone else had sensed the same impression. I don't want to see anyone change their behavior; if I was angry or offended I would have said something a long time ago. It just made it more difficult to share freely, to "admit" to transfer because it opened me up to criticism that I was not interested in hearing, but needing support dearly. To be fair, I have seen other transfer stories where everyone was nothing but supportive, and with only a few exceptions, people were very supportive of me too.
I really don't think anyone should censor themselves or make broad disclaimers anytime they talk about the safety of UC, the ability of the body to birth beautifully when unattended, etc. And while acknowledging all of those things, because I do believe in them deeply, I have the same need to add my own thoughts about UC, and give the perspective that I wish I had received when I was deciding to UC. It would not have changed my decision, but it would have helped me when I needed it.
I really care about the UC community here. I think next time if an issue like this comes up (i.e., perceived criticism of imperfect births/mamas), I will either keep to myself, as I have in the past, or take it to PM to avoid seeming unsupportive of all the UC mamas in this forum.